and she turned it on, it lights up, and it pours, i eat, i walk around people, the keys are all turned on, the boiler is turned on, wash, strangers at all and oleksandr serhiivna asked to pull out her sofa, she is dead, they threw it out for me and filled it up, so i say, even though the sun will be on us, oleksandra’s grandmother sits here and spends the days, and during the small surviving shed is hiding from the rain, there are women and they spend the night on the same mattress, but vera says that they are glad because russian shells destroyed all the property of other families in irpen down to the foundation. and here is the neighbor shul, the first one is oktyabrskoe, the first, well, the second house, there is a tree there, and the first one, there is nothing, from time to time vera goes into the destroyed house to save some more things, one of them is her wedding photo, i am a calm man, these are his

classmates, these are classmates, and grandmother oleksandr is the most she is happy that her flowers survived, i lived in the village with flowers in my yard, jurka, how do you do it yes, it is very simple, recently vera received assistance from the state, it is about 65 dollars to restore the house with these funds it's impossible and a woman can't work vira had cancer before the war, she planned to go to surgery a on kostyuchenko oleksiy yakushev for voice of america from irpen and that's the end of it thank you for watching voice of america in ukrainian also join our briefings broadcasts at 18:00 and at 23:00: 35 kyiv time, all is well. take care, have a nice weekend. see you next week,

guys, in life in ukraine, will we value more what we have after the victory, definitely. i think we will value it, but in general, this whole conversation is eh it is very valuable because it is about life, not about emotional burnout, not about experiencing anxiety, but about life itself, and it is very valuable, what we talk about is how we dye our hair, how we buy a new dress, that is, it is about the fact that life goes on. at that point where we are in time and space where we are ms. elena you excuse me please and ms. elena but you know a lot of people feel guilty in general when they have these conversations and when they do these things that bring them back to t-23 february in which we we will never return how to overcome

a feeling of guilt that you are safe, that you even think about your hair or can you afford to do a manicure, even though with such things you actually give people the opportunity to earn money and continue to support your profession in kyiv , for example, the opera theater is already opening and resuming work, the theater on podil, that is, it seems that life is returning but many people will question what right you have to go to the theaters at all when this is happening in the east of ukraine on our southern borders, well, the feeling of guilt is one of the most difficult feelings that we have to deal with we work in the therapeutic space is really difficult, but the question is why a person may not have allowed himself to enjoy life, to look for some resources, some happy moments, i don't think that

feelings of guilt have appeared here and now, only in this here are the points where she is experiencing, i think that if a person is now immersed in a sense of guilt, then most likely there was some story before february 23, this is definitely why. but i would like to return to the topic of return, not return, and in this context, a question for lida lido - and tell me is three months the longest period of your stay abroad? have you ever had such an experience? you understand , uh, this is not an ordinary stay abroad, uh, the first month, it was a month from such an absolute coma, uh, i think he was in those who stayed and those who left is not measured by time well and then it has been three months now but i am now sitting in the same jacket in which i left ukraine and in principle i do not plan to change it in the near future why am i asking why am i asking why there is this

habituation to that way of life and that which you surrounds there well, listen, there is no getting used to a different daily routine. what i have here is an electric train. i have to go on an electric train to do some work. of course . that when you work every day all your life and then you suddenly stop at one moment and sit only in telegram channels and try to somehow do all this eh, you can’t say that you get used to it, but people who, for example, have several small children in their arms eh, who in this children's mode well, what were they in the regime in ukraine in such a way that they are here now in the regime i am in so that i do not think that such a routine can greatly affect whether people will return or not. safety as i see it. well, psychologist, let her say that safety is the most important thing until people feel that they are safe precisely because a

person was killed with a rocket in my house, you understand, it is dangerous for me in my house, i will try to return as soon as possible as a person, i do not see myself and my child in it, do you understand, i think this is the main argument, the truth, but not all the routines, yes, i i'll just tell our viewers that it's about a rocket hitting the lviv quarter, and that's when one person died there, and it was also our former colleague who worked for eleven years at channel 1+1, so i can understand the person's personal fears about the return or not of ms. elena's return to you, despite any reasons, the questions are absolutely reasonable for a person to be abroad for some time, we still have some opposition in society between those who left between those who stayed please tell me how can we overcome this in the future so that we don't

find out the next 10 years, uh, how were all your months? where were you? why did you leave ? well, this is how our essence is arranged. did he leave or didn't he stay ? our psyche to restore our children and talk about life about life extension ah and this will be the most important thing if we can come to an agreement with our own experience eh that i allow another person also emotions and the fact that i can now

experience anxiety, aggression or feelings of guilt these are absolutely normal emotions that i can experience now, because the situation is just like this, and when this permission sounds in my head, when a person accepts it, then it will be possible to talk about the fact that i will be able to understand that someone, ms. olena anyway, we are now recording that many people are returning, crossing the border to ukraine, much more people than now are leaving the borders of ukraine, what do you think, and can we use the example of lida, can you generally recommend to people what questions a person must answer to himself before how to make a decision, am i coming back or am i not coming back yet? it is clear that if i come back, i have to understand how i am coming back, where i am coming back, what i will do when i come back, do i

have a place to live, do i have uh, where uh satisfy my usual needs, where to buy groceries, how to cook, who else will live in my house and many, many things, that is, my children will go because the war does not end tomorrow and e. i need to think about this, if i think about the choice to stay, then i have to understand in which country i stay, what is the legal basis, and in which status i stay. that is, it is all about rationalization, but here is how i will continue to organize, because those from the steps are so small, it's about life, lido, i have a question for you, you said that these three months seemed to have merged into one day, and you that on february 24, you are now experiencing the same feelings, and there is also a novel example of a

rocket hitting a house in kyiv how do you manage to uh stay uh well, where are you looking for wholesale optimism uh, some uh when you are abroad because it is even twice as painful because you know that you are not in ukraine and you are here abroad all these flowers and parks with which vyton fasts now because no one should to see that you are looking at the flowers and you really feel good at this moment, well, you know this discussion that those who left please don't show the flowers for us now, there are no flowers yes, this is about confrontation , but now the psychologist correctly said so, you know, you have to choose safety, to count, to know about anxiety, and i thought that now all ukrainians in europe and who want to return to ukraine are such an invisible whirlwind of cranes, that is, they are already flying home in their thoughts, but physically they are here. because, well, it is true. this is me communicating with thousands people here in france with ours from different parts of the world

, those who have been stopped here now are such an invisible whirlwind , they are flying mentally. they are already going home . i always when they ask how are you i say compared to how you feel and how you overcome how you live with air anxiety we all live here very well true very well i generally wonder why you call me lida we call you because we miss you we love because we are all united and we all work together for the victory of ukrainians wherever they are, because ukraine is actually all those who love it and all those who help it lydia taran, our colleague and olena datsun, a psychologist, were guests of the live broadcast 1+1, we will be back in a moment the unconquered cities of ukraine are the

cozy kherson, the pearl of the protected territories of ukraine, the city played a significant role in the creation of statehood, it became the southern center of the ukrainian revival during the great terror, the nkvdists were shot for nationalism. almost 2,000 places and the kherson leadership of the oun led by bohdan bandera actively fought against the german invaders, because an angry kherson native will go out against the enemy column with bare hands, but he will not bow down to the occupier. kherson is unconquered. my mother and i are in warsaw. it is a very beautiful city, but kyiv is more beautiful for me. one day,

russia attacked my country, but we were lucky and my mother and i went to poland. i like poland, but i want to return home. i have water, i have a lot of friends in kindergarten. i really want to go home and i will return soon. i returned. i will return. i will return. i'll be back i'll be back i'll be back i'll be back i'll be back ukraine i'll be back when we defeat the evil christians then we'll return to our apartment i invite all poles to visit everything will be ok ukraine we're not only waiting for victory we win it each in his own place we choose we sow we cook

we build we code we design , we make, we transport, we bring it closer, we pay for it, we earn for it, we teach, we heal, we repair, we create, we ukrainians work as a group for victory. eternal glory to all who stood up for the defense of ukraine independence glory to ukraine watch the save ukraine charity marathon may 29 at 9:00 p.m. national telethon the only news continues on tv channel 1+1 now we are talking about the fact that our ministry of

justice is collecting evidence for the european court of human rights for this they launched a new project called tell the truth everyone who suffered from the russian occupiers, suffered losses, lost housing and property is called upon to document the losses, videos , photos and testimonies, to transfer them to a special website, to punish the aggressor in court, they consider it our duty to the prosecutor general's office of the ministry of justice has already registered a thousand criminal proceedings about russia's war crimes, as a result of which 5,000 ukrainian civilians died, in particular, in the kyiv region, the process of exhuming bodies from separate or mass graves is being completed, hundreds of ukrainians guilty of crimes will definitely be punished, even if it seems unlikely now but history knows examples when such high-profile war criminals ended up on the docks , and it was at this time, approximately 29 years ago, on the initiative of the united nations, that a tribunal was created on

yugoslavia has needed a trial for more than 20 years, but there are real sentences, and our colleague nataliya jarmola met with the croatian writer slava dracula , waited, watched the process and saw how europe learned to prove the guilt of those who lost their humanity . maybe some of them have a mental illness, and maybe they wouldn't hurt a fly. that's how the croatian writer slovenka drakulic named her book. regarding the war crimes that took place 30 years ago in the former yugoslavia, but they are frighteningly reminiscent of what we saw in buch mariupol and other ukrainian cities, you are a slavic dracula that we saw different and at the

same time very similar wars, she is in the former yugoslavia, i am in ukraine, we are meeting in rainy vienna, it seems this kind of weather fits best with our conversation about the war and its crimes at the courts of the international tribunal for the former yugoslavia , the slavic woman was sometimes the only spectator, everyone was interested in the verdicts, and she only had notes on the process pen and memory, that's how her book appeared, they would have offended the flies about war criminals and the war that everyone has forgotten, and people write about the war in ukraine - this is the first war in europe since the second world war, this is not true, nowadays almost everyone has forgotten the war that happened more than 30 years ago in his former slavia, your

generation does not remember it. i belong to a different generation, of course i see certain parallels with what is happening now and then, should we compare the war in ukraine and the one in yugoslavia, there are two big differences the first is that wars in the former yugoslavia, and there were many of them, these are the wars that took place in a number of countries within the borders of yugoslavia at the time, and the great powers were not students there, and directly, of course, the un troops were the diplomatic channels of negotiations on the supply of weapons. but that war never spread such fear around the world as the attempted occupation by the russians of ukraine and it is clear why the wars in the former yugoslavia did not threaten the outbreak of a world war and this war and the difference is that very large powers are involved in it and such dangerous countries as russia are europe must react in in the case of bosnia, croatia, serbia, the european union did not react and was very divided, each country existed separately and it must be said that it was

america that stopped those wars in the balkans . what was not there 30 years ago, this is the positive side of the former yugoslavia, in which a slavic woman was born, this is three languages, three religions and six countries, croats, serbs, slovenes , macedonians, montenegrins and twins, or as they were also called by muslims who once lived under one the slogan of the communist party was brotherhood and unity, we once went to school together, we got married, we knew that in yugoslavia there were no enemies on the outside, but there were enemies on the inside. of that propaganda it is impossible to send people to kill others wars that lasted for 10 years began

when each individual nation wanted to declare independence at that time the president of serbia and yugoslavia slobodan milosevic wanted to preserve great yugoslavia, a good orator. he was able to rally the serbs scattered throughout the territory of the former yugoslavia around the idea of ​​a dominant nation, this was the beginning of his slavic warriors; putin's strategy with this is very similar to the strategy of slobodan milosevic, who was the president of serbia, then he was also going to liberate the serbian minority in croatia, the serbian minority in bosnia, this is a way of justifying the genocide in bosnia, crimes against humanity in croatia and kosovo, this is a small list of what slobodan milosevic is for got on the bench of the defendants of the international tribunal for the former yugoslavia on july 3, 2001, at the first hearing

there was also a slovenian woman so close that in her book she will describe in detail how his white-blue-red tie in the colors of the serbian flag annoyed him, his superior behavior, with which the philanderer seemed to be trying to compensate for his capitulation to me you do not need a lawyer for an illegal organization , putin's indicator is all based on if if if we do not know this is such a question if before milosevic we also said oh and this will never happen but he was given to the court, a lot of things would have to change in russia itself for something similar to happen in the gag slobodan was pampered by the government of serbia, in fact, sold him for a considerable sum for the release of his whereabouts , billions of dollars were offered, this is true, i don't remember who offered this money, but this

there was some kind of institution to tesla, america, by loading millions of dollars in aid, and milošević never heard his sentence in the prison cell of the galician tribunal, he was found dead on march 14, 2006, the case was closed. before that, he he repeatedly asked for treatment in russia, only there he was not considered a war criminal. today , the people's sovereignty and territorial integrity of their country and the actions of milosevic and the serbian army are still not recognized by russia as genocide . there seems to be no end to the graves in this cemetery. more than six and a half thousand bosnian boys are buried here and about a thousand men aged from 12 to 80 years are still considered missing, mass graves near srebrenica are found and still are victims of the massacre, which is now being compared to the ukrainian

historical shots of the troops of the republika srpska enter srebrenica defiantly, cursing instructions to their soldiers through the deserted streets, followed by general rad komdich, bosnian serb general vladislav kystich and the propaganda television of belgrade, they enter the territory that was under the protectorate of un peacekeepers, all the inhabitants of the un troops are hiding in themselves on military base in the bosnian village of potochar, lightly armed soldiers in blue helmets with a row of lada tricked into betraying men who were hiding base, promising everyone an unarmed life. but 8,000 boys and men will be shot. even before the start of a full-scale war in ukraine, putin repeatedly threatened that there would be a repeat of the "serebrenitsa" in ukraine. how did you react to

it? it looked like a threat to me because inside these in bosnia in 1995 there was more than eight thousand men were destroyed, and referring to the decision of the hague court regarding war crimes in his former slavia, it was genocide and that putin threatened it, i would say that here is a very serious threat and that too one of the parts of the ukrainian propaganda is that you are not playing with me. that something similar will happen to you and it happened. you could not imagine that something like that would happen in mariupol, buchi, the investigation of these war crimes should be taken very seriously. war criminals of what rank can be put on trial what is very important is to reach the top suspects of the command, not only those who specifically did something with their own hands, people of this type like karadzic vladych milosevic, it is important to put them on the dock why

the tribunal is so important, this type of court as an international tribunal regarding the former yugoslavia is important because without it it is impossible to establish the truth, because the serbs think one thing, the croats, another , the bosniaks, something else. about these wars, if this truth had not been established with the help of the international tribunal regarding the former yugoslavia, the russians would paint a different picture in buch, something like that oh no-no-no these people killed themselves na my opinion the historical role of such a court a symbol of justice to send a message to everyone you have no right to do such things because you will be punished sooner or later i understand this process is long it all happens very slowly you put all the small pieces of evidence together and then one picture is created i know this is the wish of the relatives of the victims to immediately punish all the guilty parties, but the truth is that the court process drags

on very, very slowly, but it is worth it. the defendants of the high command of the serbian army , such as kurstaje and mladucha. but they ended up there without uniforms, they looked like animals driven into a trap, wrote the slavic woman kirsteč, who was the first to be tried in the gas not just for mass murders, but for genocide, he received 46 years in prison, but the term was later shortened to 25 chief of the main staff of the army of the republika srpska rad komladich hid for 15 years under the false name of miloradkomadich, but he was still found, the process lasted a long time only in june 2021, he will receive the final sentence of life imprisonment, the press exploded with headlines such as bury me next to my daughter , because it was a personal tragedy, the ruler's daughter anna committed suicide after a student trip to

moscow, one of the versions is that she found out that she was actually a bosnian butcher, and this is what is most often called the reason for her suicide with a shot to the temple from her father's gun in his book, the slovenian woman will write about mlade chatak, he destroyed bosnia, but in the end bosnia destroyed him, zoran bukovich, dregul baku, ira domir kovach , were tried together for rape in one case, which it became known how the case wants the case is very important because for the first time in history, on february 22, 2002 , three men were convicted for the rape of women as for the use of weapons as a war crime, that's what the importance of focha is, this is a very interesting phenomenon, i must say that in every war there are cases of rape, but only in bosnia, the court later recognized that this happened

systematically because there was even a rape camp, most of the time serbian soldiers raped. it was their weapon. thus, they shame the people from that territory and this is called ethnic cleansing , rape was declared a weapon precisely because women did not remain silent now when talking about the number of victims, various powerful international or public organizations call the figure from 30 to 16,000. i understand why there are such different estimates because not all victims spoke about it. i wrote about very dramatic stories. i have a book as if i wasn't there. it was written from the point of view of an equalized woman and then it was filmed. i read a lot of materials. and how to convince women to testify as it was done in bosnia, he started to gather witnesses for the victims of the war in bosnia

. something like this happened to you, you should find the strength to testify at least someone should come forward in case he wants it changed the definition of rape as a new weapon in the war this is the result all the victims testified against the rapists with hidden faces and changed voices, their names were classified only numbers there was no other option because of fear they were so ashamed and afraid they still needed to return home in the description of one of the dishes in my book there is a fragment when the judge insisted on describing the testimony of such details what i thought why did he do it but everything has to be actually proven visual evidence something you heard about but it has to be together with other evidence evidence maybe someone else has to confirm it i knew that a man or a woman. i knew that at such and such an hour he

or she came out. everything must be described in detail . all three rapists were very surprised when they received sentences of 12-20 and 28 years in prison, because compared to the murders, they considered their crimes to be insignificant. in his book and in our conversation, the slavic woman formulates an important conclusion in her book and in our conversation: criminals are needed not so much for the sake of the dead as for the sake of the living, the trial will certainly be symbolic , for example, in the cases of the former yugoslavia, there were already thousands of people on the guilty list, but if the trial manages to bring to an end let 200 cases why is it difficult to reach all these people duet you won't do it that's how it takes years the international tribunal for the former yugoslavia continued