a-a single fire and legally register it and keep it as a carbine, and from whether she can get it, for example, black it on after if she is not allowed, as it was provided for in the first edition of this draft law, well, thus, of course, we will not have such an opportunity ask the last question, when is the second reading of this draft law and when is it possible to enter into force, well, this is not a question for me, it is a question for our parliamentarians, who today are actively working on the finalization of this law to in the second reading there are many such a large number of edits a-a i am convinced that the discussion that we are conducting with you will definitely take place and will be transferred to the parliament, unfortunately, now is the time for such long discussions in the parliament. he is quite limited in the programs, as a rule, he works there a day or a week

that's why i can't clearly predict now when this bill will be passed. and you are the parliament, but the fact that we are discussing this topic with you today, the fact that the survey is being conducted will undoubtedly affect the final version of this bill, which will be it was voted in the parliament, friends, we can release the minister yes, thank you very much for joining our broadcast, they gave an explanation of what will be adopted, and let's hope that the draft law is supported, denys monastyrskyi was in touch with you, the minister of internal affairs well, friends, i think you have understood. no, i want to listen to more speakers. to be honest, i said at the beginning that i would have a spoiler about how much i am for or against , but i still remain an adaptor of the alternative bill because for me well it is not completely clear, for example, i can, after certain stages, get permission for a short

barrel, it will be at my home, but for example, i will not be able to keep it on easter, go out on easter, get in the car, that is, i will need a special suitcase you understand, we need to pass this draft law and this will be the first stage, then when the society will adapt more and get used to it, then there will be a second stage, so that the step-by-step solution of this problem does not kill, people are killed, and the culture of using weapons must be cultivated and acquired with our hands well, we perfectly understand that one way or another the law must be a law, because we didn't have it from the word at all, but regarding the regulation of the circulation of weapons , and that's friends. let's add two more speakers to our broadcast - this is georgy chaykin, and the representative of the association of gun owners is a person who for many years has been pedaling the topic of the legalization of weapons in

ukraine and grigory the mustache, a criminalist who speaks with his arguments, but against legalization, but i think we will have such an interesting discussion. let's start with grigory the mustache mr. grigoriyu, we listened to the minister's position that it is necessary to legalize and in fact this law can close the gaps that we had due to the fact that there was no regulation at all . it will be accepted as a whole and will work. good evening , studio, well, look what the story is right here, the situation is as follows, if we are talking about the regulation of the legislative regulation of arms circulation, then it is in the version in which it was before since the beginning of the war, this draft law has obviously lost its relevance to a certain extent, today we

are already talking about completely new challenges, about completely new threats, risks of danger, because we have a full-scale war, obviously there are other challenges, that is, from what i know, the challenges we have today are that that the enemy is not standing at the gate but has already entered our country and we need an adequate repulse of such an attack, this is the first thing, the second thing is that the introduction of any legislative and regulatory act, well, it is wrong to do without reliable safeguards, i defended this position even before the war on these stakes. i stand even now, that is, without serious safeguards, it is not possible to liberalize the circulation of weapons. ukrainians, and this draft law partially solves this problem. you can

turn to the ministry of internal affairs with illegal weapons and legalize them. well, it seems to me. well, the answer to your question is no, not quite the answer. what could be done before and not after the war started in our country, as of march 3, we have a law called on ensuring the participation of civilians in the defense of ukraine, which essentially provides for the possibility of obtaining firearms and ammunition to it, we are civilians during the period of martial law, and if martial law ends in your country, they must surrender these weapons within 10 days, otherwise criminal responsibility, that is what we are talking about, mr. hryhoriyu chaikin, our society is not ready now before the legalization of weapons, george, it’s better anyway, look, friends. well, it’s hard for me to master everything at once, first of all, i hear you back again, that is, if you can,

please remove it, look, i only caught the end of the minister’s speech, i like it the fact that everything crosses the constructive plane. i would like to say the only thing about the fact that the population has automatic weapons that were removed according to the law mentioned by mr. mustache. well, not 45,000, but much more. why? that it was partially issued even with trucks as we warned that this could happen because we were not fully prepared. therefore, it is still a separate issue . this topic means we need a law that clearly regulates the question of who is from which age, what weapon after which

training, under what conditions, we need to clearly understand that society's demand is not in weapons, but in the right to self-defense. i do not want to develop the discussion that they passed the main draft law instead, it was necessary to pass an alternative one, it no longer makes any sense, we have what we have, but the amendments that should be made to this 5708 main draft law should provide for the citizen's right to self-defense. and for this, to realize this right, we need effective tools, i.e., ordinary pistols so that people can use them, questions about a-a should they be kept at home or be with citizens during their movement in the city, say, or in general our by the country it has already been removed from the procedure of external examination. why? because, well, all the studies, pay attention not only in action

, the study was conducted, this is, let’s say, only a confirmation of the study that literally 10 days ago was published by the sociological group , the rating is the same 58%, that is, it is the vast majority of our citizens want to have weapons that they will carry with them, and the main thing i would like to point out to you is that 1,200,300 did not vote, these are those who do not turn on their phones because they are close to the enemy. believe me, they could also influence the result, therefore, i think that ah, in general, ah, the issue with pistols should already be resolved because there is a group of those who just want to keep it at home, there is a majority, a significant majority of those who still want to carry it with them, that is, somewhere around 80%, basically they said with a gun, and of them 58 want to carry with them what else can we talk about,

the main claim you have regarding the basic law, i know that there was a discussion about the fact that it is not the ministry of internal affairs that should introduce these registers, but should introduce, for example, the ministry of justice, is it for you in order to to avoid corruption in the ministry of internal affairs around this topic, this is the only claim that is on the surface and which, well, around which there are disputes . look, this is not so much a claim as uh, but common sense. for example, our colleagues who are now also in the occupied territories , who are there enough close to the front line, they inform us that, unfortunately, the representatives of the permit service who have gone over to the side of the enemy, and unfortunately, there are such cases, they, along with the riot police, go after the owners of weapons and seize them weapons that often expose people to mortal

danger. that is, we are fighting to ensure that access to this data is very strict. that is, i do not know. we are already trying to find some solutions at the level of our specialists, how to prevent this, but this is a complex work, we must understand that this data must be under strict protection and unfortunately, i do not want to blame and before that draft law, they are essential now, son, it is essential that we have a war now and we have to understand as long as we have a war, as long as the flow to dota flow is unaccounted for trophy he will not stop with weapons, that is, the water has broken through the dam and flowed somewhere, and we must understand that we will not be able

to restore the previous state by february 24. a-a i would like to emphasize the fact that the age at which people have to get the right to acquire, of course, after very thorough training a-a weapons, in particular short-barreled, it cannot be sky-high as suggested there 30 27 years 5 years in the previous experience, well, this is absurd, why . because, again, i say, there are a huge number of people around us with automatic, and with all that, as of today, crime has fallen by 50%. in the peaceful part of ukraine, unfortunately , this will not always continue. why because unemployment is just before them and we get a surge of 50%, this is also predicted, so i think that the maximum age from which people should get the right to own pistols and their seeds and use is meaningful self-defense is 25 years old

the maximum age in general, i would consider the situation with 21 years old, but here the question is again ah ah not mine and the question of the deputies is it simply because 25 is the deadline that can be why today people, our boys are fighting at 20 years old at 22 at 25 they give their lives for ukraine. i apologize. well, we should all be ashamed that even with the law they receive the right to receive some kind of funny , ridiculous weapon there for a long time. hear about the issue of legalization of weapons, what is the first one picture so, from tomorrow, after this approval, i'm almost there, you're my neighbor, and so on, everyone has a gun, well, these are realities, which many people also perceive in the same way, but you still need to understand for people who do not have trophy weapons, which about they think this, too, first of all, and it is not a

cheap question, because, for example, i looked at e-e-e sites there selling, for example , short-barreled pistols, again, this is not a representative price. yes, but the plus-minus there is from uah 30,000. that's right. not a penny either, except that you bought this weapon, so you have to learn how to use it, and for that, you don’t teach for free, you also need ammunition, so that, too, if they weren’t distributed on the street, uh, this is a movie. practice is needed, uh, this moment, it could be exactly the same one of the ones you know, let's call them internal fuses , so to some, they call it a sveng. whoever gets his hands on a weapon will not get these or vice versa. no. do you not agree with this? excuse me if mr. gorky, friends . look here, now we have collected everything in a pile and i would like us to clean it up a little. see

it is necessary to divide everything, first of all, with regard to the cost of e-e pistols a-a well, let's say in the baltic countries , which have been operating with such legislation for many years, you can buy a pistol there, e.e. . this is a small price, that is, definitely. and if we are talking about modern models of well- known brands, the value will be higher. but again, who can afford a car cheaper, who can afford a car more expensive, again , it all turned out to be your wallet. i believe that the key parameter should be high-quality training and a sufficient and significant amount for this training, i will explain why. that is, we need to install, you know, such a safety margin, that is, so that we clearly

understand that a person who is not able to collect, let 's say, two or three hundred dollars, in order to take a course of training against him for a month, let’s say there, and alka is a drug addict, so she just won’t come according to such a criterion, and the training should be a thesis. we have the most high-profile road accidents eh with bruises on the whole head eh there we can waste to call them that, they happen on luxury cars that are very expensive and these people who have money. therefore, it is a kind of argument that uh, a person who can earn there is uh, rather more adequate than one who can't earn money no, i can say no about this that is, we need to put an entrance barrier so that the training is not too much, only that no one p george yes a-a we are continuously a little er-e p grigoriy yes er-e what is your

position regarding such fuses see e very thank you colleagues for the parity of opinion for this kind of balance, i would like to say that uh, unlike what was voiced by george, i uh, well, i have a different opinion, it is as follows that if we introduce such a fuse, which in fact will not be a fuse, but a discriminatory factor, this is the constitution i am talking about that is, any discrimination on any grounds, including property, is prohibited, that is, the poor will not be able to, in other words, and i think that after the war and during the war, weapons will definitely not be the first item of necessity that people need, they need housing, they need they need food, well, some uh conditions, but the question is not about if we are already talking about fuses, then it is worth saying that uh, these fuses must be legal and they must be well, not manipulative

, because uh, what is being observed now, well here my visa says that it is not necessary to stop a dam that has broken, well, it reminds me of the saying that the barn of gorintihata burned down. you can't ask a question like that because when we talk about a sociological survey that supposedly obviously testifies to obvious things, i want to say as a candidate of legal sciences that there are certain requirements for a sociological survey, and therefore regarding the survey in action, i have a very big question about its objectivity, impartiality, well, and about whether there is no manipulation here, a certain reason why i say so is because look at the time chosen for this survey at a time when people feel fear panic of danger and so on. well, of course, what will be their answer during the introduction of the war, it is obvious that well, you want security, everyone answers like that, see

how we will ask questions in this sociological survey contrary to the rules of sociology by the way i remind you that there are two affirmative answers - two affirmative answers for in the variations, that is, for special use and for free wearing, well, in this context, something and only one element against , that is, two against one is already an advantage. can we talk about the representativeness of such a survey , well, that is, its comprehensiveness of the entire territory of ukraine when we have people in the occupied territory who are trivially unrelated and why will they vote for and not against well, i wouldn't say that for sure, the question is also in that well, instead of abstract answers that people don't quite understand, that is, for special use or for self-defense, in fact, if the weapon is for special use , well, it can

be kept at home and also be used for self-defense, well, these are wrongly posed questions. actions it is more then simple yes a slice of thoughts because in fact it does not affect anything further let it be called absolutely in honor finish yes look let me finish the thought why i claims because when we talk about the correct and incorrect answers, then we probably get the solution to the question. if for that, keeping such weapons at home is because this is the main problem that was in all the draft laws and with which we argued to the point of hoarseness with our opponents, including those present here, regarding whether it is necessary to give -is

the possibility for people to keep such weapons or carry them on the street, then i want to say as a person who is 17 years old had nothing to do with weapons that his uh right here the question is that a pistol he never saves well let's say from uh well armed army voro is a weapon of concealed carry, that is, if tanks enter our territory, guns shoot . imagine yourself with a gun, what will you do with it ? let's conduct a survey in action about whether people will want to have javelins, stingers and endlo openings. i think there will be a plus or minus, and they will want to of course they will, but this does not mean that self-defense should be replaced by professional forces

. stages at the level of a tyrant, well, it is really effective. but again, until professional actions go into military action, until we talk about mastering. we have such discussions for a sports club. i will not allow myself to interrupt the honorable candidate of legal i. of science a modest person is simply engaged in this issue all his life, i will allow myself only a-a to mark for the fact that from the area in a pile of horses, people, flies, meatballs, soft heat, we do not understand anything, that is, for some reason, we have some kind of discrimination, for some reason, it is valued at 200 - 300 bucks and any smartphone is more expensive, that is , it already evokes a reference to the constitution there are guns against tanks and you, what are we

talking about? if we are talking about er, tyreo defta, i can give you a whole lecture and the same for the candidate. well, i don't think it's necessary, this is the next step , today we need to make a basic bill that will settle an extremely complex issue that has been settled for 30 years, we need to solve it society ready, everyone is ready, i thank the minister of internal affairs for raising this issue so that we can already remove it from the agenda, let's just build a foundation on which we will later figure out who in our country has the right to own automatic weapons, who there is no way to develop theodiftegi, it will happen later. let's make a base today, mr. georgiou. you are very right about the need for a law that will regulate fundamental things, that is the main question

that people should understand. and we also want to get an answer to it, this bill that is currently in the parliament it regulates this fundamental problem in general in the version in which it was adopted in the first plural, of course no no, but those amendments that, in particular , the representatives of our association submitted to people's deputies, and according to the information i have , it is quite possible that if they are taken into account, then he will generally close all these questions, which is the truth 1 2 3 please, barrel weapons, that is, their use, that is, not only in general, it is not in that draft law at all it is provided only for athletes who play sports and there is no decision than

twice a year to participate in international competitions , that is, first, that is, to introduce the institute of short-barreled weapons in general, then, er, accordingly , establish the age from which these weapons should be available to allow its wearing and use for the purpose of self-defense. well, there are also a few more professional related ones. well, what is not, the general public is not interested in. this is the key, because we have everything else. the article of the criminal code that allows us to defend ourselves with weapons, that is, everything is there. let's make a foundation, let's put all the problems with war and with automatic weapons with everything in the world that is a peaceful weapon. sanatorium that it reminds me a lot of the one we insisted on, that is, you have a trophy pistol , well, you didn’t find it there. perhaps, but there is

such a term for finding a weapon . he himself when he was shot and they already clearly know that he is attached to you, he came and brought an automatic weapon or let's say an automatic weapon of a certain caliber there well, you need to decide on a criterion, this is again a question the law will be offered to you, they will lead her to a semi-automatic state, she does not shoot in bursts, and again, after passing the courses for obtaining the appropriate license, you can put her on the record. i simply call for a sober approach. i also don’t want to bend the stick in another run here in the second, that is, i’m just saying soberly, the citizens have much more automatic weapons in their hands than, unfortunately, we can

count the ones that were issued, including from trucks, this is just how they were issued when this active part of our country began in the united states , the number of weapons in the hands of people is more than the number of citizens in the country, we say that it is really not weapons that kill man let's work to ensure that our future gun owners are well trained, that our best instructors are involved in their training, that we develop a system to make such facts impossible, and when we say such things, let's let's remember, well, they explain to everyone that drunk people can get behind the wheel, but who sits down and can cause harm, so let's not be all under the same child. as they say, let's just do what all our neighbors did, including our moldovan brothers and cysts of the thousand and fourth year, one cannot disagree, we really

have to follow our own path, there are different examples, friends, and i want to thank our speakers, georgiy chaikin, the representative of the association of gun owners, and hryhoriy usatyi, a criminalist, expressed their opinion on regarding this topic, thank you, friends, for joining our broadcast. well, let's summarize your attitude. natasha, you said at the beginning, yes, what you have not determined before the broadcast. how will you speak? well, after all, i will vote for use for personal protection business and the fact that the bill that was voted in the first reading and pistols cannot be carried outside the house and you can use them for personal protection, but even if you can carry them outside the house, you must keep yourself in hands need to train the nerves, that is, in fact, the first step for the legalization of more sewing - in the broadest

sense of this, this should be if she is a different person for no reason, then she will sit behind bars, what if you climb into an apartment or a house or loudly and you can simply be punished on the spot, i will say in legal language that for example, article 36 of the criminal code of ukraine says that criminal responsibility does not arise if you repel an illegal invasion of your home , that is, even today, roughly speaking, without a weapon if god forbid, where necessary, they climb into the house and you, for example , defend yourself, which leads to a tragic consequence. well , if we are talking about a real peacetime, then under these conditions, criminal liability does not arise . for people who have been researching this question for a long time, studying who, for example, knows how to use it. they probably think that, for example, mr. andriy. so, it is

possible. it is normal. yes, i am still inclined. what, for example, after the country or individual people from the countries will at least prove that they know how to use it. but the majority, for example, when we see that we do not have 50% or 60% of the population for it, but 60% of the population will take it, the certificates will say that we know how to use it. we have a permit. here is our proven practice then it seems to me that we can talk about taking it further. this is probably the solution at the beginning. i will correct you if possible. well, first of all, i don't know how to use a gun, that is, i didn't shoot it, but that 's what i'm stressing about when i studied this topic as before a few years ago, one of the specialists is a combat or experienced officer who is now instructing the riflemen. and he has a chest pistol. and what he tells me is that he simply folds his jacket so that people don't write to him. he says that this is a very serious responsibility that forces you as the owner of this weapon, you should keep yourself in

your hands, or you know that you have a serious responsibility, but if you allow it, chaikin told this example about a woman in the paid united states who saved her life. i found this news now i will quote from the site, this is the time for the woman, she is just a member of society who legally carried a weapon. and instead of running away from the threat, she joined the battle with the threat to her address and saved her life