for diplomacy, and this is how we will end it for release, this is the 113th day of russia's war against ukraine, read more on our website bbc.ua, i'm saying goodbye to you, see you tomorrow, glory to ukraine, this is a verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, have a good day and good health to all today is the 113th day of the heroic resistance of the ukrainian people against the russian occupiers, the russians continue to storm severodonetsk and break through to slovyansk, there are fierce battles in the donbas, and today kharkiv was again subjected to regular shelling, in addition to that at night from the russian

helicopters were fired at sumy region unfortunately four people were killed and at least six were injured the day before the russians fired at the city of gluhiv from helicopters at the same time the russian occupiers continue to lose manpower and equipment in ukraine at the beginning of the great war between russia and ukraine they have already lost almost 33,000 people 1449 tanks 3545 combat armored vehicles vehicles, 729 artillery systems, 233 multiple rocket systems, 97 anti-aircraft defense systems, 213 aircraft, 179 helicopters - 2,494 units of motor vehicles, 13 ships, boats 129 cruise missiles 591 drones 55 units of special equipment about rammstein military aid of

the united states of america to ukraine the visit to kyiv of the prime minister of italy mario drague and the president of france emmanuel macron and the chancellor of germany olaf schulz we are talking today with oleksandr hara, diplomat, expert of the center for defense strategies , mr. oleksandr glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, good day, mr. serhiy, nice to see you and thank you for participating in our program . the opposite is called rammstein. the 33rd meeting of defense ministers from over 40 countries of the world is an association that helps ukraine in confronting the russian federation. nato secretary general jens stoltenberg said that nato will continue to help ukraine rearm its army and provide the necessary resources for that so that

outdated equipment left ukraine and new equipment came instead, at the same time stolter also informed us that zelenskyi will participate in the madrid nato summit as the president of ukraine it is not known for sure whether it is real or virtual via video link, but it is obviously obvious that at the madrid summit we are talking about the admission to the north atlantic alliance or at least the prospects of admission to this alliance of finland and sweden e-e however, the future of ukraine in nato is still not discussed does this mean that the alliance still leaves room for maneuver when ukraine insists on it, the russian federation can remain in the status of a neutral state, well

, first of all, it should be said that we will never hear from our nato partners is that ukraine cannot become a member of nato, because in fact the founding documents state that any european country can become a member of nato, and of course you know by and large one of the reasons why finland decided to leave its humiliating status and we remember you proposed to finnishize ukraine, i.e. to be a neutral country and to limit its foreign policy to the whims of moscow, but actually one of the reasons why finland abandoned this shameful policy was that the possibility of becoming a member of nato at any moment was part of their strategic calculation. well, in anticipation of another war with the russian federation, because they certainly have no doubts if such a war will happen, and that's why they've been preparing every year since the 39th year, and that's precisely why and there is no such war, that’s why it’s not in ukraine

, it’s formal, because it’s a question of the criteria of these questions of choice, but there are definitely countries that are skeptics, and in fact, those who came to us today are these three. they are probably the biggest skeptics of ukraine in nato, there is a second point, of course, that finland and sweden were lucky enough to have a crazy leader of the russian peace decide to attack ukraine, but actually now his hands are tied, he deals exclusively with ukraine and cannot seriously threaten finland, they decided that it is safe the situation allows them to actually join nato and we have heard from the united states of britain and even germany security guarantees for finland and sweden for the time being until they become full members so well by and large this is so important, hmmm, let's say from the point of view of registry consequences, let's say so, primarily for russia, and it is not able to

do anything, but just so that our viewers can imagine what this means. well, in principle, finland is already ready as a nato member, it has been preparing for a long time, finland - this is 1,300 and a penny kilometers from the border with russia, this access to the polish peninsula is extremely important, because all these strategic nuclear submarines pass there, it actually turns the baltic sea into an inland the sea of ​​nato and gives the opportunity at any time to come to the aid of estonia, latvia, lithuania, and we remember a few years ago, the rank of corporations calculated that literally two days would actually be needed for russia to occupy all the baltic states and nato will be before the elections, will you agree with the status of the who or start the third world war with the use of nuclear weapons, now it has changed radically, i am not talking about the fact that the island of gotland is swedish, it is in the middle, it is like

a bone in the throat, now it will be in the russians, because it in the middle of the sea and everything that goes from st. petersburg or there to kaliningrad is controlled from there. therefore, this is a cardinal deterioration of relations, and moscow swallowed it, stressing that the problem is not with nato, not that moscow is afraid of nato and that is why it reacts to ukraine in this way, and that is why that actually well, we are newbies, and when putin opened up the week before last, he said that he wants to be, uh, peter the second, and the great, and these imperial eyes. let's just say that his ideas confuse him, and he continues civilly, so i can go into a little too much detail, uh, for us it is extremely important not to give up on your own the opportunity to become a member of nato. i understand that it will not be tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, but open a window of opportunity similar to the one that currently exists in finland and sweden, and of course then we should not waste time because we wasted it when central eastern europe was joining the bloc

with poland, then it was definitely interesting on the stage. well, at least in most of our citizens, they believed that we are brothers with the russians and we don't have a threat from the east. i think that this is destruction of ukrainian cities by constant rocket attacks, this illusion has already been dispelled by at least 80% of ukrainians, i think that even after the eighth year of the war and 112 days of such a large-scale war, we will also have unconscious ones, but we have to prepare for this and actually take finland as an example from the point of view how it was preparing for this membership, they took part in various formats of training and regional cooperation, er, it means everything possible to be useful to nato, they did it, they fully mutually compatible, i.e. tomorrow, when they are accepted, they simply put on the nato cipher and they are already ready in

all technical, tactical , and strategic parameters to be part of this alliance, and we have to take this into account. prospects in the alliance , they are talking about some political conditions. regarding reforms inside the country, it is clear that during this war , our armed forces of ukraine will be updated and new equipment will come here, and at some points it is obvious the armed forces of ukraine can er compete with representatives of the military er that are part of nato countries er with their ability to practice with weapons , but you mentioned that putin wants to become peter the second, although he is now more likely to become adolf the second and we see how rammstein started this meeting in rammstein 1.5 months ago at the german airbase of the united states of america

, how are the people united against putin in these 113 days, putin managed to form a large anti-putin coalition, according to your feelings by according to your observations, are there still people left in the world who do not draw the equal sign between putin and hitler? well, i think that those who came to us are the least radical in their assessment of threats from the russian federation. well, actually, putinism or racism what do we call him , because even while he was in romania just yesterday, the president of france said on the one hand that we should strengthen, he definitely meant the eastern flank of nato, not ukraine, and then he said that he would still come with the russians to talk because it's geography, well you actually know it's such a hostage or uh, it means the imprisonment

of geography. he probably thinks that way about ukraine. besides, you remember how he said that you need to save putin's face and not humiliate russia. all these things are definitely what he is the weak link in this, let 's say general hm in the western front against putin, and france is not doing enough by and large from the point of view of that military and the word potential. the country for economic humanitarian aid to the protectors of ukrainian refugees, the same can be said about germany, but they definitely did not become the engines and leaders of this european anti-putin front, and we actually became the president of the baltic states and definitely our uh . by and large, this visit was delayed by

what is happening now, and it is actually a reaction to the gap that is already widening, especially within nato and the european union, regarding leadership, and that is, they understand what you represent great efforts, but on the other hand, from a moral and political point of view, they actually do not do enough. here, they will promise us something and other things about the european perspective, but still, their contribution to the victory over putinism in order to reduce the threats from the russian federation is not only ukraine you know this is a key moment with all the sanctions and the most important thing is the technological sphere uh this is sales of chips and sales of dual purpose goods i am not talking about uh actually military goods and we are destroying them ships they hit us with these calibers and with canders, this means that they will need a lot of time even if there were no sanctions on the industrial

capacity of the russian upc, they are already limited and they will need time to restore this potential, and in such under the terms of the sanction, this means that it will not be five, maybe 10 years, and that is precisely why ukraine is now taking on itself the blow that was prepared primarily for nato, because i will remember again that they can carry nuclear warheads of the same calibers, and tactical nuclear weapons are aimed at above all against the european ones, and actually when we are at war. we have a legitimate right to destroy russian platforms. unfortunately, we take the hits. of course, we do not have anti-missile defense, and therefore a large number of missiles still hit our territories, but we take the hit. which was actually aimed at europe and that's why, frankly speaking, it 's a shame that germany and france are participating in this way. there are literally a dozen of them hanging around caesar, well, this is definitely not the level of help

that one would expect from france and constant promises from the ambassador, this is also something that a large, powerful european state could do. you know that in our language now new words have entered, e-e, scholzets , yes. the result is to call putin 100 hours in a row. what are you doing? it’s too much to promise and do nothing. in fact, this is the kind of humor that reflects the real situation with these countries. the position of schulz and macron is clear. they want to save face. putin and in order for putin to save his face in front of the world community and to continue doing business with him, trade and carry out certain arrangements, zelensky's position is absolutely obvious. that is, we need a victory, he is ready

to go to negotiations, but these negotiations cannot touch the territory of ukraine, but this one the trio that is going to kyiv, it cannot be such a letter- such postmen from putin who will offer zelensky some certain options for getting out of this crisis, i.e. signing some kind of conditional peace agreement because i understood that europe is also suffering from the russian-ukrainian war, there are certain sanctions ahead, winter is unclear what the russian federation will do with its gas and for what price it will sell it to the europeans, what can the representatives of italy, france and germany bring and put on the table negotiations with zelensky and conventionally speaking in two envelopes, that is, there are some proposals for peace agreements in return, you will receive this from- and this is well, to be honest, i do not think that they

can bring any news from the fuhrer-russian peace because he ignores them and for some time even the same macron did not talk to mr. putin, and of course there is some peace plan. maybe they will talk because italy was such an initiator, but it is a very strange plan that we have to agree to certain compromises keep in mind first of all crimea, and there the end of lugansk is already a separate story, but the italians actually offered us automatic entry into the eu as a compensatory mechanism. well, we see now that even the question of membership, more precisely the question of a candidate for membership, it causes certain certain misunderstanding, and there are already some ideas with stipulations to give this status and so on, that is, this plan actually falls apart, it cannot be the russian federation with putin, since this is

actually a war of destruction, he wants to restore the empire, and ukraine definitely does not have such plans and exists because of what what plan can be talked about, but they will definitely talk about the actual diplomatic path a-a i think that this the question is not because they are pro-russian and because these are errors in the thinking of europeans. and it seems that if germany and france after the second world war did not start to lay the foundations for the third world war, i mean there from the territory of the assembly, on the contrary , they began to integrate each other so that it would be unprofitable to fight it seems to them that it should work with putin, but on the other hand, it's the same, the same, the same approach merkel involved after the georgian aggression, more precisely, russia's aggression against georgia, er, partnership in the name of modernization, and she was the locomotive of russia's involvement in energy, financial, and political matters and the eu. and that is exactly why they

blocked our entry into nato and rapprochement with the european community, because they definitely did not want to annoy russia and thought that it was possible to create a safe space there from vladivostok to to lisbon, it also seems to me that these are false thoughts, but it is better not to be such a person. well, a real leader is not to do something bad, and plus, of course, there are some such things. it seems to me to be of a psychological type. i'm joking that he doesn't want to see german tanks entering the territory of russia again because he feels the guilt of nazi germany in front of russia for some reason . more here the war has come and

that is why he has a moral obligation to help us in the same nazism, which is now a threat to ukraine. well, by the way, if we recall history, ukraine is probably the second country that has suffered from nazism in the last 82 years from the first from german nazism, now from russian nazism, when it doesn't come, let's talk about peace talks in general, because for three months we have heard a lot of statements from erdoğan 's side that he is ready to act as a mediator. is he ready to provide a platform for talks, either in vankar or in istanbul, so that putin and zelensky talk about something at the same time. we hear that zelensky is ready for such a meeting, although it is not easy and not easy to talk with putin and agree on something moscow so far, he is saying that there is no reason for the two leaders of the state to

meet, because for this some specific training is needed, well, at least yesterday, the deputy minister of foreign affairs of the russian federation ryabko spoke about it, that is, in principle, moscow does not want to agree on anything at all or do you believe that this war can end with some kind of peace agreement or at least some kind of agreement that will fix some certain statuses by some certain date and now i am not specifically saying february 24 because in the process, some other dates may arise and they may be included in the negotiation process. well, i do not rule it out, but this is a very unlikely possibility at the moment, you know. we live in parallel realities, but if you look at the telegram channels of the rashists, they actually destroy us they are freeing ukrainian territory from ukrainians and they think that this is a step in the traditions of the

imperial, then soviet, that a large number of victims, but still they are returning their land . that putin also believes that he has enough power to break ukraine. second, he perfectly understands that he has an advantage, as he can outlast all these macrons and others, because there is democracy, but now we see that in france, almost half of the votes of the french have gone to the forces that , in principle, are very sympathetic to putin, not because they sympathize with putin yes, but it just so happened, of course, this factor must be taken into account next, you already talked about the energy factor yes in how much has the price of oil increased now in in connection with the transition to alternative sources of oil and gas, you will have to pay more, there is an increase in inflation , in fact, there is a slowdown in the pace of

economic development, there is an increase in food prices in general by 45% from january to may , according to economists, and now with with this famine, two because i believe that putin is actually creating, as at one time stalin, his role model, destroyed ukrainians in 1932 and 1933. putin is aiming to do the same with the americans there, asians or arabs in 2022-23, even if it is possible unblock our grain export, people will still die and it will be tens of millions, well , several times more than what moscow killed in ukraine in the 30s, and actually this means destabilization, it is of course important. well, we know that, for example, for france, the most sensitive regions it is egypt and algeria there, not the russian federation, that is, they see their threats to their security there. and we

understand and know how much the same egyptian regime is holding on. 60% of the population they receive food adaptations to one degree or another, including if there is less bread, it means the destabilization of this region. well, it was still important in the 15th year, when the brutal putin started killing syrians and bombing cities like mariupol, syrian cities a large number of refugees was generated, which not only became an economic problem, but also a political one. we remember that the ultra-right alt -rights began to come to power. the european union and certainly the united states. well, we definitely have two years, but this whole situation when this gallon of gasoline costs almost 5

dollars. this is definitely not an unacceptable situation for the majority of americans, and therefore there are chances that the same trump will return. you probably don't remember how he said about the 40 billion who voted to support ukraine, that it is too much money and that a large number of american families are struggling to feed their children. let's remember that five senators republicans voted against this bill, i understand that it is the least current, but it is such alarming bells that we have had this president for 2 years who said that he will not actually put pressure on ukraine in the issue hmm, the minister of defense said that ukraine believes in victory and we believe in it, this is an extremely important word in the first rammstein, it was said that putin actually has opportunities, that the investigation is possible

and that it is possible to reschedule. and unfortunately france and germany give reasons for such opinions that they are ready for compromises at the expense of ukraine. for now, well, it is definitely too early to say, but in the fall, when all the gas payments will come, it will rain , food will be more expensive, unemployment will increase, then they will definitely be more persistent . in relation to kyiv, and most importantly, they can simply reduce the amount of economic aid they give to ukraine and thus push us to painful decisions that are difficult to call a compromise it will just be, you know, to agree to some kind of year, and not actually choose a certain path

. gas with e-e oil with other resources. that is, we see how he blackmails the world, how he tries to force himself to play by his own rules, it is clear that france, italy and germany in this situation are the countries that are trying to somehow trade with the russian federation uh, macron has been holding many long-term talks during these last three months, there are more than 100 hours of phone conversations with putin, uh, what will be the most painful for the russian federation, what is missing, what component is missing for putin to feel for himself and uh the russians felt all of them, and because we understand that they are gradually being introduced, it is clear that they will begin to feel them somewhere close to winter, and then

next year their situation will worsen with each month. and what is so crucial that could completely cut off the oxygen to the russian military machine, including vladimir putin. well, you know, there is a dilemma here that, on the one hand, the sanctions are extremely powerful, and they already set russia back decades in terms of economic development, froze its technological development, and even in they have always been proud that there are no analogues, and certainly that they cannot restore the level of production of defense products that existed before this war, taking into account these sanctions, but by and large this did not lead to the real eto of what we expected a change in behavior at the event, and what do we expect? that the russians will not have the resources to wage this war, and you know, i really like the words of the prime minister of estonia, who said that until ukraine won, we did

not do enough. first of all, energy, first of all, it's oil, you know perfectly well that even at these discounts at which russia sells its oil, well, no, no, on the european continent, the same indians or chinese are told about 30-35 from eh dollars minus from the price of the brand, and of course that this oil hype would allow him to earn almost the same money as before and that is why this main let's say this is the main main source that the russians have a plus well, as far as i know, it allowed them 197 billion for the first june - this is the sovereign fund they replenished, that is, they have such a security cushion for punitive structures inside russia to suppress the population itself. well, in order to continue this war, everyone is in it, of course, if you were

real and powerful. eh without exceptions eh energy sanctions, primarily oil, they would be combined with harsher sanctions in relation to the transportation of this oil, because in principle, you know, 60% more than six - 60% of russian oil was directed and is still directed to europe in order to redirect this oil to western markets, ships are definitely needed uh, russian companies are selling ships because they cannot withstand the sanctions pressure and they are now using even european , there are greek and other tankers, if it it was possible to make it impossible due to, for example, special additional sanctions or the implementation of sanctions on a large scale. and this would reduce the possibility of selling this oil to asian markets. that is, it was a powerful thing, definitely banks, definitely what europeans pay according to this cunning

scheme to russian banks, then it is converted in the ruble, well, you know, this does not go over your head. it actually violates the principle, that is, the europeans said and then retreated from it. and of course this is also a direction. i think it is good that macron i didn’t call the pasta for hours, i didn’t talk to putin because if this person is in diplomatic isolation, then none of the europeans or representatives of the free world should call or should call to say that if you do something wrong, then these are the sanctions, then these are the consequences as a channel of proof e-e determination of the event that let's say so, what will be expected in the event that, for example, they will create some kind of kherson people's republic or zaporizhzhia? will it be created in a single federal district as