called for our defense industry, this will be a challenge, and we would that only those enterprises that change the production of new weapons, maybe these will be samples and licensed er, we er, we will purchase licenses for the production of certain samples of weapons and understand er, that these samples there will also be those enterprises that will be able to apply these standards in their productions, grow their production under these standards and really be able to be competitive in the arms market we must understand that the arms market will be enough he was tough, he was always tough, i am tough, and the competition here has a very high er ability to

regulate and survive certain enterprises , then how do they say whether the war will be such a driver for our defense of industry in relation to certain samples because when there was a period there er- 14-18 years old. we often talked about the fact that our ukrainian weapons take part in hostilities, they are tested by the war, they will sell well after that, and then the 22nd year comes, we see that we cannot ensure mass production there basic models there or tanks there or battleships or others and we see that then the war becomes, conditionally speaking, an impetus for the promotion of foreign models and not ukrainian ones, could you still single out the ukrainian models that, after the test of war, have proven their effectiveness and ability to solve problems well military tasks on the battlefield, which are the

highlights of our pc, which receive exactly this . trial by war. i think that one enterprise that is part of the league is the manufacture of a light, it is capable today and these samples that we see today which passed not only the 14th and 16th years, but also the 22nd year, we see that indeed the life of a person is, first of all, and all after combat clashes, tough combat clashes, and near kiev and in the east of the country, they endured and have the smell of strength and the most important thing is that they are able to save the lives of our soldiers, and this gives us the opportunity to talk about the fact that such equipment was and will be in demand, including well,

for example, this is one enterprise kozar armored vehicles, which enterprise is part of the forest . i think that including unmanned aerial vehicles fury devices, they have proven themselves very, very positively, and i think that this is one of those directions that will really be able to provide an opportunity to make certain certain positive dynamics, including in the east of our country, and the most important thing is the preservation of life, well, communicating, including with the military, we we see that indeed today uav quadcopters of the appropriate models give

our military an opportunity to move forward and to see and observe the picture that makes it possible to save lives of our military and cause maximum damage to the enemy. that is, we can talk about the fact that unmanned complexes, light armored vehicles , radar, electronic warfare, guided weapons systems, these areas we can continue to develop regardless of that . increase due to interaction between e-e state authorities due to state funding and due to a clear understanding of the needs of the ministry of defense, well, that's right yes, these are the directions that you voiced, this is really

not one of the most interesting directions that we can really take today, there are many, including other directions. of the military and there are enterprises that actually manufacture personal protective equipment , even basic things such as tents and heaters and air conditioners, this is all necessary, but there are priorities that must be given today, they are manufactured, accepted, and manufactured today it is individual protection that they provide, well, it is like that again. the first life of each and every one of our relatives. by the way, the composition of the league actually includes an enterprise that manufactures barna vests. they also moved to western ukraine , they are trying to expand production, and this direction

will always be relevant because that the number of the army has really increased significantly there, if we used to talk about 250,000 there, now we are talking about 700, everyone needs a helmet and a reliable body armor , and this means that this direction is also necessary to leave our own defense industry and then infuse foreign competences if it is about certain materials that we currently do not have, i think it is necessary to support and develop fear. the month of june is ending and we are moving, if not until autumn and winter, and already today we need to think about providing the military with winter uniforms that are as comfortable and as favorable as possible for the introduction of hostilities, etc., in this regard, it must

be said that today our volunteers are making incredible efforts, and enterprises and volunteers are doing their utmost to provide our military with such means. another issue that was a little left out of the discussion was the place of various structures of the concern ukroboronprom somehow they went into the shadow, trying to risk some shareholding reforms and so on. what is your vision of the place of the concert at the current stage of the war, what is its role and functions, is this structure excessive in conditions when we have to strive to optimize the management system, you are absolutely ready, and i will speak in this situation not as the acting

director of the league of defense enterprises, but as a citizen of ukraine, and in my deep conviction, to date, such a structure as ukroboronprom is a setup which absolutely does not fulfill the role and place that they should theoretically fulfill today, even in the month of may, reading in some reports in the mass media that ukroboronprom is developing a development program of the defense-industrial complex for a certain perspective. it is quite unclear to me why this initiative of ukroboronprom, if it has the exclusive competence of the ministry of strategic industries, how can ukroboronprom take

part in this? in my opinion, today the enterprises of ukroboronprom must be transferred to the operational management of the ministry of strategic industries of industry, which made it possible to make certain decisions more quickly, including on moving around the location of production on providing state support to these enterprises, but we have what we have e-e p yuri, now they are talking about lend-lease programs that should ensure the supply of weapons there by the united states, but in view of previous experiments, this is actually an opportunity for the development of the industry's own defense in a new format or we have an opportunity to cooperate with the states to look at the future of our defense industry in a new way and start, let's say, the radical transformation of our pc and the creation of new conditions for the

manufacture of military equipment. well, in this case you need to tell the truth. today, it seems to me that there is no such possibility, because we must understand that there is a huge lobby of manufacturers of military equipment weapons abroad, which will broadcast their interests , including to provide weapons and military equipment of our armed forces and the army and our military was formed, however, due to the development of certain events in the east, south of the country, well, in other regions. restoration and provision of equipment that our industry is able to use in the

production and armament of military equipment, it has a perspective. i think that the aircraft, in my opinion, is a very difficult process and to hope for it, well, it will be eastern thought, if we speak for the perspective, then it will really give an opportunity. but at the same time, again, we must not lose the private sector, which is engaged in the production of weapons and military equipment, here we must work out a certain mechanism of public-private partnership that really enabled the state, both a state-owned enterprise and a private enterprise,

to join forces and move forward, the last question is your short forecast regarding the state of our defense industry, public-private, for the coming year 2 everything will depend on the e-e formation and the implementation of state policy in the field of the defense-military-industrial complex, namely from uh, well, in my opinion, a large part will depend on the ministry of strategic branches of industry, how will they work in this direction, the prospect of the development of our enterprises today is that they are able to perform the most important thing - this is to find that uh. and he is today, this is the ministry of

strategic industries, which should unite in an effort to conduct an analysis of the use of the analysis of the use of your conversations i'm just running out of time. it was very interesting to talk to you in our audience. i would like to remind our audience that our guest was yury brovchenko about the league of defense enterprises, and serhiy zgurets talked to you. director of the information consulting company defense express watch us on the espresso channel good evening my name is myroslavarchuk and this is a new online project own names and in this project we talk with intellectuals about important things about what historical point we are in and how we want to see our country after the victory, we react to the events. we give assessments to the events. we

try to describe our understanding of the tectonic shifts that are happening right before our eyes in ukraine today. with the support of the swedish foam, we will meet with you every wednesday at 7:00 p.m. on the facebook pages and youtube channels of the ukrainian foam and the espresso tv channel, in addition, the left bank lv.ua publication will later publish text versions of the conversations and of course, we ask you to spread the word spread these programs. if you find them interesting, we will be grateful for likes and, of course, for comments. today we will talk about how to study russian literature at school in ukraine, or should it be studied at all, but as russian classical literature created this imperial myth

about the greatness of russia, the russian army, weak russian weapons, about the absence of borders in the empire, about the special mysterious russian soul, and so on , in a word, the myth that fascinated millions of our compatriots and actually the whole world separately, i want to talk about whether it is worth ukrainians should consider gogol and bulgakov as their writers. today, this is rostislav senkiv, writer, literary critic rostislav. good evening . good evening, rostislav. i will start with the whole specific question how do you evaluate the statement by the ministry of education of ukraine that ukrainian schools will not study works of russian literature, in particular tolstoy's novel war and peace and some other works of russian literature that glorify

the russian army? on such a practical level. even if they did not take away the relevant works from the program of foreign literature, it would still be very difficult for them to study them. when we say, we should leave russian texts literature in the program of foreign literature is not worth it, we look at it from the point of view of our own people who make decisions or of the ministry and if we look from the point of view of those who will study this literature so who will read these works from from the point of view of female students well, we can understand all this very easily. i taught at school for two years and i, for example, do not see now sit down to try to explain to the children in the class to the students in

the class the beauty of, let's say, russian poetry at the same time that there will be people who were in the classroom forced to lose their homes will be forced to emigrate to whom e who e waited for the shelling who knew that these were russian rockets flying in which relatives may have died or relatives were under occupation suffered abuse there i.e. these children will be in classes and e-e study these texts e is inflict them of repeated psychological trauma. i think that in the school as it is, the children will refuse to study these texts, that is, in fact, the presence of these texts in the program will simply inflame the conflict inside the school, it will be a constant conflict between students, teachers, and there are many of them, some teachers will be in exactly the same positions, yes, that is, this is

literature, hmm, if what we have to talk about now is the aesthetic perspective, this is another problem, yes, that is, another, different plane, which writers are better, which ones are stronger which of the russian writers are original and which are secondary in relation to europe - this is also quite a lot, we can discuss it , but it is not the time now, because the time is that the presence of any texts of russian literature in the early hours in general at school will traumatize children again and again injure students therefore, it is completely inappropriate, i will add one small fact: a german writer appeared in the program of the soviet and soviet schools as early as 1960, 15 years after 1945, and it was goethe with the first part of faust before those writers there was no german in the preschool

program and no one. well, everyone obviously understood this problem. they understood that these writers would not be accepted. obviously and understandably we need a moratorium on the study of russian russian and russian writers and russian texts. well, we will see later. how ideally, by the time they start to study shevchenko and vasyl stus in full seriousness there at pi, study and read read or not read not with russians we discuss within society i part of our compatriots and part of the people who grew up in ukraine were formed, they believe that this is a complex menshovarianism, all that this is a certain provincialism and

that it is actually a fear of competition with a great culture, as they say, yes, there is such an opinion in obviously, they heard the statement of mr. rostovych radik, the head of the e-office, that ukrainian culture is small, but i'm not even talking about that. there are people who are formed in this way within the framework of russian culture. it is very difficult for them to break their mental ties with this culture, so they say let's divide politics separately, culture separately what do you think it takes to actually convince these people where this stubbornness comes from, well, it’s clear where such stubbornness comes from, uh, i just warned about the problems in my first reply , in principle, it will hardly be possible to study in school, but it’s one thing and now it’s about people who have nostalgia, well nostalgia so it’s uh nostalgia for

some time when everything was apparently even clearer yes and uh all literary markers stood in their places and now you need to reevaluate and give up old illusions from it is always difficult to give up illusions, especially if this illusion has lasted for a certain time, there is such a book, er, it’s classics, er, plastic of post-school studies, it’s a crumb and it’s called empire writes back yes , he has right speech does not consider the problem as it is difficult for people from former colonies to renounce the essence of imperial culture, which actually claimed to explain everything in this way, that is, this complex that is installed in the minds of our

fellow citizens. that as a romantic poet is more powerful than pushkin as a romantic poet, for example. that is, it is probably quite clear for literary critics, but it is not very clear for people who have this sentiment and it is like any revaluation of values ​​is quite difficult , we understand how long it crumbled, how long people got rid of sentiments there before the soviet union, when it crumbled, for many, this process was still not over, and uh, people were hurt not to notice the terrible uh sides, that is, this soviet stories of e-e disabled people to concentrate on some pleasant things such as sweet water pinocchio or e- delicious ice cream it is convenient for the connection to notice

the pleasant and not to notice the terrible the same with russian literature, i.e. e-e people dare to notice texts that once moved them, which were part of their inner world, i don't know, maybe someone was enlightened by pushkin's poems there in love, these are some facts of the biography that are not like that, just pull it out and now you have to admit that well, yes pushkin there are uh-uh terrible uh-imperial things, well, imperial texts , in particular, about ukraine, a graphic about ukraine, and about ukraine in poland, which uh-uh, well, actually, uh, it’s about installing this superiority complex and so on , because how can you convince them, how can anyone be to convince because to prove arguments and a child

may or may not accept them, well now the biggest enemy of russian culture and russian literature is russia itself and the political system because they exist, they demonstrate very well, for sure, a terrible thing that there are some features of humanism that were still in russian literature, they are worthless, they did not work, this is literature that did not work , no one thinks that after the crime, kara will come , that is, the occupiers do not operate with such ideas this is despite the fact that they definitely all taught this text at school, that is, this text does not work, everything happens contrary to these arguments, as for me, it is enough to understand that russian literature is, in one way or another, somehow its own, but

quite a significant part of it was such a component of propaganda, and that's why it can be resisted in the same way as any other aggression is resisted. yes , this is a hybrid aggression, it consists of rockets that fly. they consist of texts that try to convince us of something. what do we have trying to convince poltava pushkin on us, trying to convince that mazepa, a traitor to peter the first, is a great er, that means a reformer who is trying to er, do a good deed. and in general, he is a beautiful, favorite historical character of the current russian er, or dictator, er, peter i yes er pushkin plus, which glorifies peter the first well er let's now understand that this is some er i don't want to offend er at the kermas let

them talk about it but this is masochism so er love a writer who writes about your ukraine such things this is some kind of clear contradiction. by the way, you said about masochism, and here i can’t help but immediately ask about bulgakov. there are a lot of people i know, who i worked with, who are my good friends . they call the writer, for example, a novel. in my opinion, it is absolutely ukrainophobic. the white guard novel is called a great work. in your opinion, is it worth mentioning ukrainophobes? and is it at all? are you

bulgakov ? he is definitely a white guard author, that is, he had a white guard ideology, and he absolutely did not respect ukrainian culture, not that he was close to him . they say he violates it at all, he never considered it, that is, these petlyurites who appear as ghosts somewhere there, such white guards. these are absolutely extra-cultural figures, yes. that is, it is not culture, culture, but it is concentrated in this house behind the curtains that is, we understand that he has no tractors, no sentiments towards ukrainian culture, so here it is , i'm sorry, i'll interrupt you, uh, yesterday there was an interesting column

vera gay would be a literary critic, which column in the ukrainian weekly and she wrote actually, this text is called ukrainians in the mirror of imperial literature and here she writes that bulgakov seems to have hated everything ukrainian, not only for purely ideological reasons , but also for certain personal motives, and with the glass petliurians, the russian classic has some deeper psychological complexes and mental grievances, what do you think, these are private, these private grievances and wrongs are connected with the trauma of the entire imperial culture for uh, for bulgakov, is it, is it something else? er, when you er consider something as your er, and

it doesn't want to er be exposed like that. that is, someone doesn't want to be influenced by er, someone doesn't want to be friends like that, someone doesn't want to be in love. someone has their own opinion and this opinion i don't like it, it's clear that in the empire, this position is absolutely clear and bulgakov completely shares it, that is, he has not only the white guard, he also has other texts where he is clearly on the side of this russian, all of russia, which they lost, that is, this white guard russia, and this is how it is born his is also an anti-soviet protest, it is clear that this is a lot for whom bulgakov , whose texts to him when you are a ban and he in the 90s, which texts of many

others began to appear. he was just, first of all, an anti-soviet author in this, well, in this cabin, it is read out a on e with texts like e-e white the guards simply did not want to pay attention i will say once again that i do not want i just fundamentally do not want to discuss the aesthetic level of the text yes the aesthetic level of the texts is e the strength of the writer what is he, well, at what level he knows the language, there are a lot of good writers in us, for example , he doesn't care what the school curriculum on italian literature is, only dante alighieri and that's it, and we don't have italian literature anymore, we don't care what's in spanish literature thanks to don quixote and then lorka and all of us do not care that there is no one from czech literature there at all