terrestrial broadcasting t2, three tv channels that were thrown off the air for some such far-fetched reasons well , khrestyna yatskiv and i worked to glory today, but soon we will see each other again khrystyna, thank you, thank you, antin berkovskiy, all our tv viewers see you tomorrow. good evening . my name is myroslava barchuk and this is an online project of a ukrainian certain, which is called the proper names of the project, is implemented with the support of the swedish foam. renaming the toponyms of kyiv and we will talk about it with oleksandr rudomanov, a journalist , blogger and decommunization activist oleksandr is one of the co-founders of the

ukraine decommunization project oleksandr wishes you a good evening, hello oleksandr, i can’t hear you well, i hope that my desire, which was precisely for the first time, is already tormenting this is not the first year, this is a question of patience or, i don’t know, indifference, maybe there are some other explanations for this ukrainian society, look, you and i are in principle 30 for years, we already understand in our hearts that tolstoy chepushki were looking at the toponymy of ukraine not because they are the number one writers in the world, this is absolutely not the case. they appeared because the russians marked our subjugated territory, and now we had nothing against the russians for decades of independence names who in german in ukrainian

cities villages of the central metro station lev tolstoy square of leo tolstoy in kyiv hundreds of pushkin monuments you know i am silent about the tereshkova streets with which you fought ah and those people those people who spoke about decommunization and russification. they were called extremists and radicals, and the russians, on the contrary , russian troops only enter the city and immediately knock down our symbols, signs, monuments, destroy ukrainian literature from textbook libraries, and so on. this is why, in your opinion, there was such a terrible resistance to decommunization before the war. sometimes we we recall here in kharkiv against e against hryhorenko avenue the attempts to return the name of zhukov the ukrainians actually started imperialization. well,

let’s say that if we take kyiv, yes , i think 10-12% of us voted for pro-russian facts. these are those who were, well, they are pronounced supporters of the russian idea, in fact, a very large part of the people unfortunately, these are amorphous people who, well, until you kick them, they won't do anything, especially when it concerns officials . unfortunately, there was not enough critical time to start the process in the year the first decommunization was carried out in kyiv, when various streets were renamed to new names that still exist, and then a full-scale war began on february 24 of this year, and in kyiv there was such a

colossal demand for russification is shown there , er, sociology will show 76%, so er, they want this, that on april 15, the kyiv city council introduced the so-called special procedure for renaming the streets of other objects in the city of kyiv and proposing ideas for new names literally anyone could, they say that in total 12,000 proposals were submitted to the city council, in particular, regarding the renaming of more than 3, 300 streets, and here in 5 days, the people of kyiv in the kyiv digital application voted for all the positions for each street, up to 10 they say there are 12 options, and the people of kyiv voted, they chose

their option on every street, in the end, they drowned among the many options, and in the end , this de-russification is successful somewhere. e blitz de russification of kyiv in two months eh in fact, i have two, well, two aspects, yes, the first aspect, which i think is correct, we are currently renaming all russian streets at the request of civil society and while politicians feel it, we are renaming all streets that are associated with russians and russian culture with something else or neutral names or about ukrainian names, and then we'll look at it, and maybe one still needs to be renamed, maybe it was renamed badly, well, no matter how it sounds, it's possible that there are some other moments, that is, when two or three streets can be named after the honor of one and the same yes now or one and the

same phenomenon, well, this is not quite right, it’s all the same , all these streets will go past the commission of the deputy commission and they will select this one. one separate vote well, but this is clear from the records regarding the renaming of the kyiv council. and you, between march and march, koshlyanskyi writes that he applied back in april, when this story actually began. this is when people began to submit their options and it was a wave he wrote to the mayor of kyiv and to the secretary. he says that the current process of renaming the streets of other objects of kyiv has turned into a farce, is crazy and will result in a cultural

catastrophe. of economic changes, direct it in a civilized direction and ensure an expert discussion so as not to distort the symbolic environment of the capital, and that's when you say that when there is some mistake, it is can be renamed well, but it will no longer be possible to transfer it, that is, when it is wrong or is it somehow unscientific, as the member of the renaming commission says. of special training it will already be very problematic. then rolling it back, well, rolling it back is possible and problematic, but nothing prevents re-tying the street, that is, yes, there will be another, not special procedure, that is, sooner than

all that will be the procedure, what was it then? if i remember correctly, the collection of signatures is conditional, then the choice of the name, then the public discussion on this very street, that is, not like now kyivans vote on everything, yes, for all streets, there will be a vote for this street, which well there where people live and they can propose another new name. on romana ratusnoho street it's just like that, well, in the largest, almost 30,000, yes, the largest number of people is bilomorska street, they propose to name the street the murdered activist kateryna handzyuk, yes, zholudeva street , they propose that this street become the street of oleksandr makhov, also a fallen journalist and soldier , gagarin avenue to leonid kadenyuk avenue,

even to rename the street heroes of brest on chernobaiv pushkin's nachekalenka of leo tolstoy on the streets of ukrainian heroes of moscow on the princes of the island of e-e on the princes of strozhsky on londo i saw nska. you wrote that the voting atoms of kyivans in kyiv will now have a toponym in honor of scriabin and in honor of the soldiers of the 72nd brigade that defended kyiv , but there will not be many such many such things , renaming, which means proposals that you do not like, well, there are moments, for example there was a street where, let's say, almost all chechen forces, who have no relations with russia, pushed into it. in other words, there was a street - in my opinion, it was an ichkeria and it could be called dudayeva and it could be something else i don't remember when i won't win

instead, conventionally speaking, to spread it over several streets and actually not create competition with each other, that is, it turns out that instead of having dzhokhar dudayev street there, we had another street, they cannot be at the same time because well, it was somehow decided from the other side, er, i understand that we have a large number of sadova streets, for example, it is there in osokorki, well, i think that there are many such streets, which, in principle, in the process, can be renamed in the same way, for example, in our country not there will be no street, no 72nd brigade, no black zaporozhians on the street. well, because it is even in its time . as far as i understand, the brigade would like to name the metro station now in honor of the brigade. well, for example, the watchmen write the piano, the historian he says

that uh, there could be a street in kyiv, uh, the genius of yakov hnizdovskyi, a wonderful artist, yes, there will be khimichna street, for example, people voted for khimichna street without knowing who yakov hnizdovskyi is, and let's say how hnizdovskyi is in third or second place there can the commission on the issue of renaming the kyiv city council, such a person does not agree with the choice of people, and on the other hand, you are in favor of it being, let's say, the street of yakov gnizdovskyi, well, look at the special procedure. i don't know what can be there at all, well, that is, in this. well, i'm not ready to answer. maybe you can't this is it. maybe they are the taste. the problem is that i will tell you that even if people knew who they wanted to name the street after, yes, as a rule, as a rule, the residents vote equally for court streets.

in short, if you take ukraine, for example, in general, ukraine is simple, you know, not decommunization. and i don't know, uh, the renaming of streets to this one in the garden . if you take what kyiv is, it is the capital here, there are more activists. more than anything , it is primarily because of this that it became possible to name streets there in honor of, including public figures and historical figures, who are worth so that they should be on capital with this syphilis is devastating, just dig yourself out. i know that the mayor of odesa is fucked. he also opposes pushkin street. yes, he is now. it was his interview at the university. i think he was talking

about what he is against. well, i i'm not talking about the fact that there is a discussion about keeping the name of this street, i'm begging you. i haven't heard. well, he's in favor of keeping the name of this pushkinskaya street so as not to rename it. and whether to remove the monument to catherine ii or not to clean up is actually a question that i see very often on the network on facebook, how is the monument to the incident in odessa different from the monument that the occupiers want to erect in occupied kherson ? later on, so that the monument to catherine in odesa does not confuse anyone, it is necessary to take the monument of the horse from under shchors and deliver it to

kateryna, if it is annoying, if it is serious and not to delve into certain historical prices, this is necessary means of the difference between er russian toponyms russian monuments in temporarily occupied territories on ukrainian territories on russian territories there is no difference, these are occupation stamps, the monument to pushkin in ukraine does not differ from the monument to pushkin in russia, both in terms of ideological color and the purpose that it was erected in the same way suvorov's monument in the conditional nemyrov seems to be izmail and somewhere in russia, well, it's one and the same, this monument to suvorov is a monument to a russian voivodeship, and this monument carries the same and the same scythes i symbolized myself as oleksandr in general to relate to the fact that the

thoughts of ordinary , caring citizens are gathered . historical knowledge, or some other knowledge, and maybe this is not a matter for citizens, but nevertheless for experts, scientists, historians, what do you think about the fact that this is how it can be solved to a large extent in the hands of the places eh, look, i eh- i think it's good. why, because i feel very well. well, i'm in my own time i have always worked in the same architecture and there you know when you come, let’s give you some kind of offer, will you be an employee of this department, yes, as an employee, they looked at you. like, what do you know women and actually officials and effective opinion

maybe even some, let’s say so, cultural figures yes who are for that they answer, they look at ordinary citizens, like, why are you filming women, but in fact , citizens who care, but who are not, are inside this culture, well, inside this society, what kind of officials are there? well, i think that they have have good ideas and often these ideas are not worse, if not to say . what is better than what they offer? the academy is part of the academic council and several teachers. literally several teachers of the pyotr tchaikovsky kyiv conservatory advocated not to change the name of pyotr tchaikovsky, to keep the name of the academy, they

appealed to the president, the government, the verkhovna rada they say that this manipulation of the name is not tchaikovsky's imperial narrative, they ask to protect tchaikovsky's legacy from being used by the aggressor as a tool to destroy the ukrainian ukrainian essence. yes, i know that there is already an answer from the ministry of culture and state affairs, which is that the submission is what the academy did . it doesn't work, but after all, there was such a view and there is still such a position, what do you think about it? i will say that if at one time this academy was named in honor of me, i don't know, well, let's assume well, only the body and she was the one who, well, the employees worked under this name. yes, they have been working under this name for 40 years. how do they probably work now under the name tchaikovsky? well, they would ask

not to change today because people are getting used to it . again, i have a vivid example. i will give a small analogy. yes. at one time they wanted to rename the railway, well, there was such an idea because we were there southern western southern e-e collectives were against on all issues why collectives are against the fact that we will be here the same story if we had not called this academy those who are old-timers who are there they work very, very, very hard, they will work, you see. you said earlier that you can give people such things, uh, in such solutions, there are, look, in the 20s, in the 1920s, the music academy. this is what is now, the conservatory of music . the book was a musical and dramatic institute named after lysenko, and as oksana zabuzhko rightly reminded yesterday, actually this musical academy

was founded in kyiv by none other than mykola vitaliyovych lysenko with the last money, because then the ukrainian community collected some funds for the 35th anniversary of creative activity big money, a solid sum for him to buy himself a house, and he took it and founded this music and drama school, the present conservatory grew out of it, the theater institute grew out of it, and only in the 34th year, the actual theater court, splinters , the conservatory split off and already became two er two higher and er and suddenly the name of tchaikovsky appeared, that is, they actually russified this name. i think all these people who are included in er they know well, i do i think they know. let's say so. it doesn't matter . they know today whether it is or not. do you understand that they are

protecting the name not because it is there, well, a prominent person or something else? and because they are so used to it. if before, the academy was called well, in short i want to convey the opinion that they know more than anything that they know it all, but the key thing is, if they don't want to change anything, by the way, this is a very big problem in renaming, because people are the night and in the principle of decommunization and deracialization. that is, it is a monument for example, people are nothing they want to change because, well, i had an example - it's talne. yes, i went there with a girl. well, it's important here, but some monument somehow sent a request . it turned out to be khrushchev's point, a deputy of the ussr. he fought against the ukrainian people's republic in the 20s, well, that is, he throws up under the influence of the law - decommunization, that's

chetki . people here they are children and they made here they kissed here they spent their youth, how can we dismantle it? we don’t even know who, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, how, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what is it, are we can dismantle here, are they spent in other countries, are in other countries more fortunate, the post of the musician pavel indov, who wrote yesterday about the name of the conservatories of the world, and he says that in warsaw, the university of music is called frédéric chopin, a pole, yes, in helsinki, the academy of music named after jan sibelius, yes, fina, in budapest, the academy of music, named after the hungarian inferentialist, yes, in milan, there is a conservatory named after ju , that is, in all people, in canada, there is a school of music, namely

the green guild of the canadian, a brilliant pianist, but in moscow, the tchaikovsky conservatory and in kyiv, the national medical academy, and i continue to just hope. to consider the change and to break it, because it is, well, now the society is against it, yes. well, the renaming is against the russians, the passport will pass if they can. i think that they may have a tactic. yes, just delaying delaying time so that then bam and it became not relevant, it becomes not relevant and that's all and they forget about it, it can be like this, do you think that there might still be something like this in ukraine, that it was suddenly relevant, then it will cease to be relevant after everything that has been done, well, i'm

sorry, let's go send, let's take it, you think so much of people. i apologize, of course, but you speak very well, oleksandr, you told me 5 minutes ago that you need to listen to people, it's true, where is your offer, i ask you, you need to listen to people, but you need to push and show the direction let's give a vivid example again decommunization, well, this is my favorite until last year, last year we still had frunze and lenina streets, yes, it was in villages, yes, it was possible in small towns, but it was still, lord, in 14- what year was the annexation of crimea, while i was there, someone told me something. i looked at something, no one, in principle, was involved in the streets of tereshkov, i will say more at the beginning, in my opinion, there were 230 streets as of now, until now, in the fourth

month of the full-scale war. and what a year there was the eighth year of the annexation of crimea, for which we voted so far, at least 80 streets are named in her honor throughout the region, please, there was resistance from the people so as not to call her names, the resistance was not dependent on the graphic, if the location of this name and khmelnychchyna said that it was not tereshkova, but tereshok and who else is there? vinnytsia said that it was not tereshkova, but tereshki, well, there were many options, many people wrote that they are now saying, as the supporters of chiykovsky say, that we will leave it because it is a descendant of cossack family and he had music uh and i also want to ask you about metro stations in kyiv uh, there is also a

draft decision of the kyiv city council on renaming five stations of the kyiv metro, so i understand that this is where it all started yes, and according to what was published on the website, it means that it is proposed to rename the station beresteyska yes to buchanska station , leo tolstoy square to vasyl stus, heroes of the dnipro station to heroes of ukraine, minsk station to warsaw station, druzhby narodiv station to botanychna station, not something botanical menagerie well, this is a historical place, what do you think about it and how legal is it, because i know that stations can't be called simply by the names of people , like vasyl stus, they're not called uh, if it's the name of people, then you have to say the square, then the square it should also be vasyl stus, right. i'm not ready

to say about this about the names. i know that the streets are not named after living people, and in principle, in ukraine, they did this very often, because we still have him there. it's not bad, but i was these lina kostenko god bless her health and a regarding the renaming of these my god, the metro station here has a twofold situation, on the one hand, maybe it’s good that it was renamed, they are renaming it on the other side, eh. no, if what was the approach, it’s not at all clear. than lives on the street, therefore, in my subjective opinion , this is exactly what i would give to the historians and scientists and for them to choose a conditional 10, well , 10 is a lot of five or six options and for each of these options then there was already a discussion and not to involve people in this and then without talking about it

with the relevant scientists. well, thank you and the last one. my last block is actually what i want to ask you about, er, about the procedure, for example, people who live er, not only in kyiv, but in cities, towns, villages of ukraine, they don't like the names of the streets there vatutina kutuzova suvorova on which they are, what do you need to do , what kind of effort do you need to do to rename the street itself? and that i know that there is a completely separate procedure for monuments e-e see as far as i know, it is now more centralized, they started renaming it all because it was and which arrived oda and one further lowered what to do now people go to take part in public discussions express their proposals go to their cities-miss-local

deputies in any case and talk to them because in any case the local deputies will vote for it, the local deputies can give some uh this proposals. that is, it is for small towns plus it will never be superfluous to apply 0.25 .” oleksandr tkachenko, the minister of culture, and there is a

procedure that you have to apply to the ministry of culture with a letter to the ministry of culture, so on the initiative, that is, local authorities apply to the cult, if i understood correctly, and then he actually gives the order yes, the government and by the decision of the government, the monuments can be moved or demolished somewhere or the relocation if it is a practical question of what to do if the local council does not want to do it. what prevents the ministry of culture, having a list of these monuments, they will simply call everything and then he will turn on the second question again. and what to do if the letter to him does not come out? well, someone is lost. some say that we sent it, i swear to you, others say that we did not receive

it. it is as if they are the ones , this commission gives its conclusions on such appeals. i understand the officials in this way. do you want to fill in an idea? i am creating a commission . most likely, this is probably oleksandr's conversation , oleksandr is glad, a journalist, a blogger, an activist for decommunization, a fighter against, in particular, hundreds of tereshkova streets in ukraine