and that the state can distribute it very effectively anyway or we give it for ransom then it is some kind of international supervisor, but then again the question will be whether ukrainian entrepreneurs will be able to earn on this on this reconstruction because everything was barely a motive to a certain extent until recently what do they say we will be able to earn from this trillion? well, we. i hope that the business is a community . because we may get the impression that we miss our oligarchs again, yes, who also lost a significant part of their capital, well, that is our task is not to save the oligarchs and not to raise new oligarchs and not to return the old ones correctly , our task is simply a huge number of small and medium-sized businesses throughout the communities of ukraine in every village in every city within the framework of the reconstruction of the village, the city, the revival of the economy and so on, so that there a strong middle class has appeared and this is actually also being discussed, including already now

it will be discussed now i left, now i will return, it will be discussed at the panels of the conference and what about the economic block and as for the big projects that we just touched on, yes, private investments, because if all over the world, well, these investments, for example, in airplanes or campaigns, they are made by private companies in ukraine, too, after the restoration of the reconstruction, private international companies will fly and so on. so on, that is, the world will not finance the state or communal in ukraine what they have in the world, the private world will offer us the best private companies and investors and they themselves will enter what they will entering this will be a recognition of the fact that we are winning and that actually well, they are ready to work according to the best world standards, as i think it is absolutely logical that the amount of private capital and the private sector in general will increase in ukraine according to the results actually before our victory because what in this world private will be private in our country, well, in

our country, we don’t have it. it seems to me that there is simply no other option for us, or we will change and become just another european country, well, or, i’m sorry , this country will simply not exist, and we don’t believe it, of course we believe in the victory and in the future of ukraine thank you very much oleksandr slogantec lugano i know what i wanted why this topic worries me so much here is an example i will not name the town a very beautiful town for example there they have last year in the center of the city ancient and beautiful there are tourists and there were a lot of open cafes, for example, you know, old-timers used to open in droves , everything is normal, everything is prosperous here, and i think the city hall is like the city council. well, something like that. let's raise it how many times let's raise it how many times let's raise it in 10 let's raise it in 10 voted raised 10 times the rent surcharge, i.e. the rest, you didn't pay a thousand, you started paying 10,000 that is, 10 thousand 100 to 300,000

well, the question is also that their profits grew 10,000 times during there is no war now. why are you coming now? there is no terrace. who made money from this? who did this happen to? on the one hand, i want the money to be distributed locally by the communities . we see how corruption abroad is when the peace collects money together with the community in order to bribe some corporation so that it opens some enterprise in their locality, because then in all their jobs there are taxes and a budget. in our country, on the contrary , the mayor comes and says, what will i get out of it? well , we don't need your factory. well, that's a word thing, but this is again a global issue, and i think it's a question of whether we are europeans or not. in particular, it will be discussed today and not only today and tomorrow in lugano. question

decentralization and the issue of corruption in ukraine, the most important thing is that it does not remain on paper or in some conversations, so that we do not later lose our expectations and the opportunity to become a member of the european union, the european union, in fact, in lugano , too. well, actually, what about the marshall plan ? i also want to talk now because, well, we call it the marshall plan because there is no better analogy than the marshall plan, uh, there are a lot of differences, a lot of differences . by volodymyr omelyan tell me about volodymyr omelyan, the minister of infrastructure of ukraine in 16-19 joins us, a diplomat, a politician, well , good day. greetings, friends, the real question today is that we are talking about the so-called marshall plan. the new marshal plan for ukraine and is it is it

fair to call it about the marshall plan, because i actually wanted to draw attention to it, there are certain serious differences, in particular, the marshall plan - it was the united states secretary of defense, marshall, who two years after the end of the war said that you have money. here are the conditions under which you change your management systems in the state and trade systems. this is how you will now create an economic union . we will help you. we went and the money was quite modest. in fact, the calculation for the present is something like 120 or so billions, and in fact and there it was distributed to many, many countries to several countries , austria received the most, and if you transfer the same money, pavlo sheremet told me that ukraine already received more than then they received the opposite, because only ukraine receives from of different partners. it is obviously something different. in particular

, president zelensky emphasized that we already have a plan. the plan already exists. it is not our plan. it is actually zelenskyi’s plan. well, that is, the ukrainian plan. well, what is the difference, how will it work, what can we achieve, what can we lose by this road is actually our biggest problem, that we interpret help from the west or even reparations from russia simply as the money we received. we have to look at it differently. that reforms come first, then the money comes, and only then will there be an effect because if you throw money into the existing system, which is rotten , corrupt and ineffective, no one will see the result except for a few dozen dishonest people who live well on it and will again rest on the streets of miami and until they are caught by the police there, it is very important for us that ukraine demonstrates so that just as we fight on the battlefield, we are ready to implement

reforms and make a completely different quality of life for every ukrainian citizen and create opportunities for every ukrainian business that he developed from a geometric and not an arithmetic progression, this is also possible, but for this you need to have a clear vision. i have carefully studied the plan that was presented by the ukrainian authorities in lugano. i hope that this is only the first such draft version and that it will be significantly refined in the future, because at the moment, apart from the general slogans about the reforms and give us certain sectors of the economy without a death sentence on what exactly these funds will be planned for, i did not see the second huge risk. we must clearly remember that even if we have e billion 100 billion million us dollars it will still take time to plan where this money will be spent physically to make these objects to which this money will be directed for physical objects this is a minimum of 2-3 years of time and what

will people do who have lost their homes and jobs and are in the best situation, whether in western ukraine or in central ukraine, or even emigrated for protection. we should not lose people, on the contrary, we should return them , we can only return them if we offer they have decent conditions for living and working after the victory, no one says that now we will be able to rebuild the whole of ukraine when the war goes on and takes a lot of resources, it takes a lot of lives, we have a lot of losses but after the victory, the very next day, we must start systematically building a new country and not to repair the old soviet past, in fact , continuing this topic, i also want to return to the topic of the fight against corruption. that is, well, in fact, it is a prerequisite, after all. well, i repeat the same thesis, i said it now, oleksandr i think that it would be a very good signal if president zelenskyi or

a delegation, mr. denys myhal, would come to the conference now, for example, for one day. we know, that is, we would have already arrived with him and we would have said, please congratulate, you wanted to make a beautiful political gesture, which obviously had enough political spirit, and this is the problem of the ukrainian government of all generations, what ah actually political will collides with some random reality, and as a result of the reform, we get such scumbags or not in the amount that the country needs i am very alarmed by the phrases in the government document that we want to restart the gardens to the letter, that is, not to appoint the manager of the garden who

won the competition, in fact, there is only a signature of the president on this document or the cabinet for that. for him to start fulfilling his duties, not to launch a competition for a new head of the nabu, namely, the restart of all institutes, which is no less possible, it's just, let's say, such a non-alcoholic wording in the government document, and i mean these theses that need to be made, and not some new theses that they want to invent but i will remind you that the last commission was supposed to vote on february 3. well, there was no lack of a quorum by the number of points. in 2020, when the head of the former sap, nazar kholodnytskyi, wrote a resignation letter of his own volition, and they cannot appoint a new head, and the same situation is the same with the

national anti-corruption bureau. and by the way, volodymyr zelenskyi announced today that literally in the next few days or weeks a new leader will be announced. well, let's wait already, and really, really, i was expecting my own waiting, this moment, it seems, i wanted to simply and constantly remind you that when we talked about the marshal's plan was about new about new er about new approaches to public administration in general and what and what should be remembered that the ukrainian state has one of the worst indicators of the efficiency of public administration, well, exactly in europe it is 100%, and at the same time we have one of the highest, as far as i keep repeating, not one of the largest, well, one of the largest shares of the state in the economy, in the overall structure of gdp. and this means that. well, how are there countries that have such a similar or larger one? finland

seems to be, but finland just has one of the most beautiful france, but there are not exactly here, very high indicators of the state quality of public administration, that is, well, it is obvious that everything is pouring out inefficient use of resources, well, it is cool that there is an inefficient economy and and actually that is why for me well, the main thing is that in this regard, marshal, what is this to understand ? in ukraine, who just simply always boils down to rhetoric, not a teacher, live, help me financially. so when will we get out of this, uh, enchanted circle, because i heard it again. at least i don't know, maybe i can, i'm wrong, but i'm always this i hear in the speeches of the ukrainian side when they hear about big money denied that you owe us, owe us well, in fact, i think that without western support, we would have a significantly worse situation, if it had not happened at all. it is a fatal thing, but we need to remember this. to remind everyone of us and thank

the west for what they are with ukraine on a daily basis, supplying weapons, providing financial support, political support, informational, many other things will change. i think it will change quickly enough. politically, what is carte blanche for any nonsense, carbon that does not exist, it is over, people with weapons who are now defending ukraine will not tolerate again odious characters who will think that they can paint some e-plates on various expensive restaurants and buy themselves another bentley or rolls -royce, those times have passed and this will be proven very quickly after the victory, so i would really like the current ukrainian government to understand this sooner and become a leader, a locomotive of reforms, taking on itself not only the flag of victory, but also the flag er successful qualitative changes in the country, otherwise

it will have fatal consequences for the government itself and the replacement will be very fast for some reason, i really hope that after the discussion of the government document on ukraine's vision of reforms and the possible involvement of funding for the restoration of ukraine, we will approach this document more seriously and there will be a clear model plan. the problem is not in the bureaucracy, now there are a lot of discussions in the government portal that let's cut the mechanical one there, only the honorable club 2-3 times, you can leave one official conditionally in the bank yes, but the quality of the bureaucracy will not grow from this, the problem of the functions they perform is the problem of the transparency of their decisions the problem of the lack of vision of what will happen to the country in 10-20 50 years estonia is successful singapore was there once

georgia was successful not because someone there did something right one day but because it was not clear a plan, a clear vision of how to do it, they embodied it in everyday life over the years. this is how an effective country is built. minister of ukraine 2014-16 arseniy yatsenyuk, mr. arseniy, you hear us, you see us. greetings. good afternoon. lugano should still receive this plan and start taking some steps. i think that before the lugano conference, before restoring ukraine, we must answer the most important question, not just

how to end the war, but how to win the war, and without this, our formula for success will then have the key information the key unknown is when, under what circumstances, under what conditions ukraine will push back the russian army and regain its territorial integrity, you see that the situation is extremely difficult and objectively this is expected because russia is a country that has a significant amount of resources, a significant amount of military and potential, which has, in principle, a large population . now the most important thing is the theater of war and how to make ukraine win this war as soon as possible and return its own and back, and

now about lugano . propose reconstruction ukraine, from the very beginning, we need to build ukraine, just a new ukraine after the victory in the war, and it is not just about rebuilding the infrastructure, it is not just about another construction of roads and other facilities, or much more deeply, it is about what if ukraine wants to become a member of the european union, and in the end we got the status of candidate members of the european union, and this is the merit of the ukrainian people and the ukrainian army caught up with the ukrainian people starting in 2014, when people went to the maidan for the revolution of dignity and the ukrainian army when today, the ukrainian army is the defender of our territorial integrity, so if ukraine wants to

become a member of the european union, and it becomes a member of the european union, then it is the construction of ukraine as a democratic european country with state institutions, with democracy, free elections, with a rule of law, with a state without corruption, with institutions of power that effective and professional with regional self-government and, of course, with the construction of the entire infrastructure of networks, the investment of incredible funds in the ukrainian economy, which it is simply destroyed and we can talk about it with you about specific numbers, it should be on the agenda. therefore, the first is a very deep plan to build a new european ukraine, and the second is the amount of this plan, well, we are not talking about hundreds of billions of dollars, we are talking about a figure to a trillion dollars and again i come back to that, it all depends on when ukraine is the winner in

order to restore ukraine and the third question, what will it be? but will the member states of the european union pay, or should russia pay for it, and i insist that russia should pay for it? the sums seized in general are different, but in principle, we can say that up to one trillion us dollars of assets have been seized both russian state assets and russian private assets, which are all directly related to the russian regime and the kremlin, so there are three questions that must be answered, and for sure lugano will not answer all three questions at once. this is me for sure i can say that many more lies will have to be carried out

. but you will remember this, it is some kind of calculation. look, you can calculate , and on average, about 2 billion dollars per year, this was the minimum amount that ukraine received from the transit of russian gas, well, 50 billion dollars, let it be a pear, and that is, it did not have sum, but on the other hand, did it somehow help ukraine to modernize? no, it helped ukraine to corrupt the elites, this is a question of the fact that money alone cannot solve anything. i am very close to your thesis that it is what from the very beginning. even the soviet union had to rebuild, that is, a different meaning was laid, because the rules need to be changed, and now you are talking

about what should be understood, in particular, the positions of who is who in the state, i am before the beginning of this skin here i am, we joked about the fact that mr. shmyhal probably felt like the premier for the first time in lugano. well, this is also the question, that is, the question is also about the relationship between the powers between the branches of power, that is, is the executive power the executive because if i don't know to what extent the prime minister now has enough powers to do something and then be accountable to the country and the voter and his party, no prime minister can do it on his own, even if he is super-super brilliant as well as none the president on his own, if he is superhuman, he is not in a position to start a new process of building a new ukraine by himself. he can do it only when

any of them, and the president must lead a large team, a large team - this is called the team of ukraine and the team of ukraine, because the amount of tasks that stand well it's not at all unprecedented. you know, unprecedented is a dry word. well , to cope with this, you need to have incredible strength, experience, professionalism and such a deep, deep ukrainian soul and confidence that we will do it. i do it it's not just that you know some words , i'm telling you here. well, i remember in the 14th year, when i headed the cabinet of ministers, i was convinced that we would resist, but it's not my merit that we resisted only one or only our government. well, that would be incorrect and it is unfair to the whole country, and the volunteers who first went to defend ukraine against russian aggression, and the volunteers of america, the cities, and the simple people who did

their work, they are not simple without these people, we will not do it for me , we will not do anything, and when the language says it is about the fact that someone will rebuild, someone in the government offices will not in the hell rebuild without every ukrainian, and you are right when you say that money does not solve everything, it is extremely necessary, and even more so, money creates very big problems. if it is not used effectively and non-transparently, that is another of the key problems today's situation in ukraine is that 10 million ukrainians are either deprived of their homes or have left. that is, 10 million temporarily displaced people and those people who have gone abroad, who will rebuild the country with their own hands. concretely, the head will think about how to do it , and now the key task is not only in lugano and not so much in lugano, lugano, where to get the money, first, second

, how this money will be used, third, who will give it, and fourth, it will control the effectiveness of use - these are funds and in kyiv and how to create the most powerful team in europe in the construction of a new european state called ukraine, and in this context it is worth mentioning such a well, i wouldn't even call it a scandal, but the precedent is that the ukrainian delegation includes the majority deputies with the pro-ruling party from the servants of the people, and yet the other parties gave only one representative each because, they say, they were no longer allowed to write about this, the swedish-swiss publication blik e posted an article about the fact that there is a conflict between a-a in ukraine branches of government and between ukrainian politicians regarding the access of the opposition to international platforms, such as luganov, in fact, and

the opposition deputies say that in this way the government neglects the expertise of other political representatives, but on the contrary is maria mizentseva representative and deputy head of the verkhovna rada committee on the integration of ukraine into the eu says that the list of delegations to luhansk is quite balanced and we are doing well. they cooperate well. and what do you think, mr. arseniy ? this is a stinking political quagmire of classical ukrainian politics we will never win we have only one enemy today his last name is putin we have the key single biggest problem today russian aggression against ukraine the war that this war criminal started against

ukraine and everyone, regardless of the political party, regardless of whether they are in the parliament or outside the parliament, everyone should be united, this is what i told you about, to form a team of ukraine and ukrainians to build a new state and regarding the key you know the principles of democracy, today i noticed the appeal of public organizations to lugano, please read it. organizations wrote what are the red lines, what is needed in order for ukraine to be restored, and one of the key points there is democracy, what is democracy, it is the presence of a full-fledged political process, where there is power, where there are optics, where all democratic norms are respected . this is the shortest way to defeat and not to victory,

pettiness is the shortest way to not strengthen ukraine, but to weaken ukraine, and here there cannot be a completely different approach, as there is only one approach one country, one ukraine - a single team for the reconstruction of ukraine, and more precisely for the construction of a new ukraine, how to unite people by profession, the principle of specialization, skills, experience and patriotism and patriotism, which is very important, not closeness, not loyalty, i know that as soon as they are chosen according to the principle proximity of loyalty, that's the end of it, it's very, very, very bad, because the more loyal he is, the closer he is, the more problems there are from this person and from their ability to do something, this person must be supported by

the qualities of this person according to the experience of this person and it is necessary to select very simply what this person has done in general in life or this or that team that he has in the past because if he has an empty past well then from what can we assume that he is able to rebuild the future and such there are very, very many people in ukraine, they just need attention and they just need to be told that the state needs you at this historical moment for ukraine, the most historic and the most dramatic, mr. arseniy, i can say that we literally have two minutes left, but i maybe i'll say a little like that, uh, i'll express my opinion skeptically. well, it's just possible under the conditions of democracy . still, we have at least electoral democracy, at least the last electoral election, it was, and there is only one way - to create new political

forces, to unite all healthy people in them and win the elections, or is this way still not the only possible way? why should we hope for the common sense and intelligence of those who are now in ukraine ? far and for a long time, it is necessary to leave today's realities, and in today's realities, the key task is not a political struggle, but a struggle for the country and a struggle for every ukrainian, so we absolutely agree with these words, arseniy yatsenyuk , prime minister of ukraine, thank you, thank you, we discussed and lugano and that is what ukraine can achieve from this conference from other conferences, in particular, hmm, the first days of the war, i quoted such a colonel, helen grant, who is a specialist military experts, not only

british, who from the very beginning wrote the following an appeal to president zelenskyi, the first week of the week, two wars. i am one of the points, one of the first was that it is necessary to forget about any political differences, to forget about the opposition and about the powerful, and to form teams now that would simply consist of the best specialists that are available if they are in the opposition, we take them, if they are at all disappointed, they went into business , find them and convince them, if they are patriots, then it would seem quite obvious things, but in practice, as they say, ukrainians unite just before the shooting, and we finally remember how we lost lost our chance in the 20s of the last century, the ukrainian people's republic fell under the pressure of the russian army of our area, the magnifying glass of the european union and many