there is no second chance, we must now call the maximum and, for example, i will give examples of what was easier because you and i entered such a certain philosophical plane, er, hmm, customs clearance of cars and, for example, the ban, er, now cancellation, since the issue of customs clearance, that is, the return of taxes, is european integration, yes this is not about sub-market mechanisms. this is not about a common space. we continue to try to introduce some additional taxes that do not exist in the european union. we play from time to time in certain contexts. we try to find what kind of bike are you on? i believe that we cannot afford this way, of course when some smooth processes take place, it is politically easier for that, but now we have to hold the most sharp, the most critical , the most e-e shows and forms. in my opinion, because now is the only opportunity for this, because

we don't have time, we don't have the next five, seven, 10 years to create the same packages, because we have to understand that this is not the end of aggression until russia falls or disintegrates for some details, we will be in a constant state of a certain passive apassive aggression, that is why we do not have a micro-exit, and from the point of view of the economy, the city is the view of our own responsibility before who today we had who gives his life, gives the most valuable health and so on we, as a public, should be optimally acute and react to any suspicious or incomprehensible because we don't have time for demagoguery. we should move forward or rebuild ukraine today, that's all. to rethink and change everything as much as possible,

thereby moving along the union and becoming its expert. thank you very much taras havunka. thank you for this answer. thank you for the conversation. the lawyer, the head of the lviv editorial hub joined us with luhan from switzerland. let's continue the topic of reconstruction reforms and our law enforcement system in that among them is the issue of corruption. we will probably discuss it. andriy , it is oleg prokhorenko. andrii osadchuk, the people's deputy of ukraine, is already in touch with us. andrii good day good day, we will definitely continue the topic of lugano with you, we will continue the topic of lugano but here we have already started talking about it , again, about what about what an interesting moment, we heard everything, noted this pavlo in the eyes, too,

that as if there were two counter proposals , that is, she went to her fund of ragweed and said that we have a plan for the reconstruction of ukraine, and then it turned out that ukraine is what the naga says. we have our own plan, we have 24 t well, they've already rolled in. so, let's carry the money in short, as they say, there are expectations and there is reality. so, we know this expectation. 24 so we know how to properly distribute 750 billion dollars. what kind of reality do you think we will have? mr. andrii, well, look at the expectations. it is easier to show that they will give us 750 billion dollars, we came up with this figure. i hope that they somehow substantiated it. although i have not yet seen the presentation in detail, i

was on the road all day yesterday, and now i have just arrived in kyiv , and i will certainly look at all these with great pleasure slides, because expectations are of course possible good , and uh, definitely uh, the sum of 750 seems to be quite enough to compensate for all these losses that we have, but i have huge doubts that for good slides, this is 750 or even much less, but it's just that they will take and give, and we have to understand that this is a huge amount of money even by the standards of the western world, which can only be given by understanding how it will be spent, and now i don't fully understand. i literally this morning asked this question whether there is a finally final understanding of the mechanics. from whom

will the money be given, under what guarantees , how will reporting be done, uh, well , believe me, in order to spend even there 50-100 billion dollars, it is necessary to work very hard for a long time and work a lot, and the west will be able to to continue funding only if he sees the effectiveness of ensuring the transparency of all procedures er lack of excuse corruption, this word should be mentioned again a and b i still have no er understanding of how er these are all guarantees provided by the west and whether the west understands and perceives this story, i want to remind you that we already had somewhere how many years ago this was not a very good story when volodymyra oleksandrovich went to washington and , in my opinion, somewhere in stanford or somewhere he also presented some very strange program for some huge billions, but this story was covered up at the time

, it was something like that, it was very childish, they were at the presentation, again, the series, let's give billions , everything will be fine, ah. that's why i really hope that the team in lugano will come before this very professional, as professional as possible, without such a hat to throw numbers because uh, if this is done, everything from our side is not very professional and we can find ourselves in an absolutely dramatic situation. i have been preaching for the third month that for me, our victory consists of at least three main key concepts that this is such a victory, this is of course the defeat of the russians, the expulsion of hm on the territory of ukraine, this is bringing war criminals to justice . if we do not do this, then this will not be a victory. this will simply postpone the next war and the third of course, this is the reconstruction of ukraine, because the worst thing that can happen in general is if at the huge cost of the lives

, happiness and health of thousands of tens of thousands of people, we will remain in a destroyed country, and this already completely depends exclusively on the leadership of the leadership of the institutions of ukraine, on the policies of ukraine, which directly influence on political decisions ah and now i still don't have the confidence that we are doing everything perfectly right, but i am a very smart way chairman of the verkhovna rada committee on european integration ap maria good day and let's have you we will ask you about your impressions of the first day of lugano and the beginning of the second day. please tell us what your hopes are for this conference. well, first of all, we would like to continue the opinion of your colleague that it seems to me that it is more if it were

not for the plan that has already been written. concrete actions that this is more of an intention and the vast majority - this is true taken from those projects that were presented to washington, but i can't be there right now and say how it was discussed, how it was accepted and not only what was related to presentations in washington, implementation. and how is it now ? well, let's say this recovery plan wasn't presented to all branches of government, and hmm, here we are returning to the fundamental rights of democracy in principle, and where there are rights of the opposition, there is control where there are also a lot of non-governmental institutions and state institutions involved in the development of this because, besides what we present, we really have to guarantee that it will be implemented, for example, there

is currently a lot of discussion about what is there many projects on financial stability and tax reform, that is, what did the servants of the people do for three years, when, unfortunately, they worsened the tax code and tax customs policy, and you understand when we will now move on to concrete examples, well, let's take , for example, the return of vat. yes, when it happened again in three years. unfortunately, it went into manual mode, that is, after all, this plan must be confirmed by actions as well, because, again, we are now on a-a on the agenda e appointment of the manager of the specialized anti-corruption prosecutor's office, yes, for a free video that provides funds and wants these funds to be used transparently and in a controlled manner, the

rule of law is important to them, and so when time x comes, and we see that there are intentions, hmm , you know, in the court decision, there is a candidacy which actually won the competition, don't appoint and now we have to dissolve the commission again, the same goes for the head, that is, then, unfortunately, if all the words were all the intentions a-a hmm luhan well, what about those state institutions, including the ukrainian parliament well, they just sound apostoporotic, that's why it's very important that, well, let's say so, not only we presented this plan, but we also showed the basis for the implementation, because well, for now, again, such beautiful words, but we will already we saw how beautiful the words were. unfortunately, they

were presented in a different way for three years, and we would very much like to do the same. well, how does the parliament of the parliamentary-presidential republic control the participation of er and that professional people er really help the promotion of those or other projects, but the last thing we would like to say that it seems to me that it is so important to win , but now there are priority areas where we need a lot of financial resources, and this is the case with our citizens, especially those who visited after the occupation , and we are visiting different regions, the last one was chernihiv every time we hear that there are not the two thousand that were promised, that is, people do not know where to live, what funds to rebuild because there are buildings that are absolutely completely destroyed, that is, i think it is important that there should be such a first stage, a priority, where we need to e- e winter yes to provide

answers and what will be rebuilt, including social and educational infrastructure, and then, in parallel, of course, well, more of these reformist things but again, control, control and control, and we must show and the government must not be afraid of what democracy really is control, democracy is compliance with the law, and democracy is the rule of law, and democracy is freedom of speech, and you don't know . you can't speak now and criticize. there's nothing wrong with the opposition, not what it criticizes. the opposition is paying attention, where are these or other problems in to one or another question, and at the moment we have one goal - membership of the european union, membership in nato and the reconstruction of ukraine, but actually we already talked about what we already tried to look at this plan that exists there and that it is very much in the

public domain. yes, it is very similar to just such a scaled-up version of the great construction, just more money, but approximately the same directions. and is it really an ambitious enough plan, but i would not even now say whether it is enough to give money from it is he enough to rebuild roads and houses there, tanya, the question is whether ukraine can afford to rebuild itself and not become a new country. well, i'll ask a question a little bit about the meanings . here's your opinion. what's missing? vision, but i lacked this because even in yesterday's speech, for example, president zelenskyi used the word reform twice. i didn't even understand what he meant at first. he meant that the ukrainian resistance inspired nato and the european union from

more cohesion, well, it's me. i'm not sure if we understand the word reform correctly or if we're all on the same wave. well, the word is your opinion. do you or you or do you also feel that this lack of some kind of vision of what is right and what needs to be done because it's not only about some castles in the air, it's also about what you know very well. there was a phrase by lesh kabaltserovych. and when he said that when they went to create the first government, he said that in our country it was written in advance for several years by points what we will do every day and it wasn't 24 so we but these were just directions. they knew what needed to be changed, what needed to be broken, and what needed to be created. is it now the ukrainian authorities or do they understand the responsibility of the moment? well, i don't have that. i don’t have this feeling, i listen and i do

n’t feel it behind them, but we, the previous ones, only talked about it with taras hiding that, well, we don’t just have a dump, there’s no such thing as a, or it will change or it will die. andrii, what do you think? well, i think the responsibility of the moment they probably sit and they understand because these are quite obvious things, the poverty of plans, i think it comes down primarily to the ambitious sums that we decided to voice and focused on some, as i said, which probably looks more or less realistic, but i also don’t see the model itself in any way at all that’s all a clear step-by-step operational plan, so to speak, will be implemented, and especially in terms of the cooperation of the central government, local authorities and donors, so this will happen when

the money will come exactly where it is needed for that, in accordance with some clear priorities, he does things in a clear sequence that will bring the greatest benefit, and because i agree with maria here, it is extremely important to separate short-term and long-term perspectives. that is, it must be a complete picture. well, if we do not decide now, for example, before winter the issue of housing for many people, it is useless for us to hope for the return of a significant number of ukrainians to ukraine in general, and on the other hand, if we do not have a consistent picture of reconstruction, then it can simply turn into a chaotic utilization of resources, which at some point may simply not please our partners, that is, once again, it is important for me that we offer a mechanism that was clear, that would be believed, and because once again, such

huge money, uh, is not given just like that, but for in order to physically spend 750 billion, we need huge institutional huge institutional capacity, very good managerial staff, and even now i don't have the feeling that this is a complete proposal, it was made from the west. we are of course let's see what will happen today in luganov. once again, i really wish everyone success, because i repeat once again, if we rebuild the country , they probably wasted how many resources all those forces and lost so many people, so i really hope that the ruling team understands the responsibility of the moment and they understand the price of a mistake and actually andriy, what for you will be a marker of what is understanding, this is the first girlfriend well , for example, i also don't understand what our goal is now, if we allow ourselves to say, let's

we will end the war, then we will start to change and change the country, and the end of the war is in our country, for example, the liberation of the crimea, and we must understand that it can take 20 years. how will we live? our intelligence predicts that it will be in next year, andrei, i would uh, still, yes, i wouldn't want to use the word cunning because now uh, it's a time when anyone can cheat due to the fact that the price is actually already too high. it will become higher and higher and we really have each very so personal understand that this concerns your country, your people, and you personally know the responsibility, and here andriy is right in that, for now, this is a plan, that is,

a plan - it is. well, more declarations, yes. and in fact, we need to win this trust as well, and we can win this trust the first stage is the short-term one to show. but really, the plan is yes, that is the strip. and i don’t know how to say it in ukrainian . and at the same time, it is a field that must be registered and the capacity must be registered, but at the same time, unfortunately, we have what happened to us the reform of the civil service, so what happened to us again with the anti-corruption body. that is, we have to understand that when you said that the reform was after the war, and the war in ukraine , that is, this war against of civilization, that is, this war of civilization, it really changed the moods of european countries and gsm countries, that is, we

saw there how nato-integrated nato integration moods changed. and that's why, by the way, you and i saw very operative, and the entry of finland and sweden because, again, democracy - these are the procedures of democracy - this is a consensus model of decision-making ah ah but it must be followed yes and that's why hmm well, the ukrainian government, ukrainian society, all state institutions, we have to understand that in reality this implementation of our aspiration is because it is all the same, recovery is connected with our desire to become a part of both the european union and nato, and it lies only through anti-corruption, anti- monopoly legislation, through reforms of the security sector, liberalization of the economic model, that is, which in fact, you will show will ensure the improvement of the standard of living of our people in our territory, and that is why

it is important er well, you can not forget these, well, such difficult er words but it is so and you understand when we say well there we are happy that we are all er let's say yes, it was such a difficult and long way to get a candidate for the european union, the countries of the european union. so, in principle, this is such a unique story, a historical event. but really, hmm , here the world just realized that we are waging a civilizational war. that is, it is the horde . and we protect their values, it was very difficult from energy resources in 2014, they didn’t want to understand about it. and you know, we are currently such a civilization. well, you can say the limit of the spread of this european cultural space, and that’s why it should be based not

only on words and yet to be confirmed by actions by actions because we, well, we cannot fail, we are not what we have no right to fail, and we do not have the right either . and are proud of the ukrainian nation, which is like this opposition, and therefore it is very important that this is formulated by the authorities, well, in the declaration, the plan. for now, after all, it was such a practical activity for implementation. but again, it is in the context of those democratic principles for which the ukrainian state has been fighting for a century. and now, in 2014, society is transforming, and we have all the reasons for this. it is very important that you know that such a thin line has not been

crossed by the government, amen. we, you mentioned, oh, oh, just now, about the entry into i will add each chapter to finland, sweden, and nato the foreign ministers of these countries have just signed the protocols on joining the alliance, and now each of the nato countries still has to ratify these agreements, after all, this is already the last step of finland, sweden, towards such an organization. we have to make conclusions and what kind of science it will be for us. the conclusions are very simple that there are complicated rules for joining various organizations, but circumstances can change them

. scandinavians to nato suggests that the road to nato can be much shorter, but we must understand that the scandinavians have been de facto members of nato for many, many years, probably even decades, because we have all learned well that membership in nato is no longer only the standards of e-e weapons, forms e tactics of waging war, these are first of all , again, these are non-standards of democracy, what we are talking about is not the first day, and they have been there for a long time, fully meeting all the best european requirements, and therefore for us but again same still constantly return to this point of departure that we have to do our homework, and i want one more very simple thought to say that everyone should understand the price of mistakes or the price of

cheating our partners, you remember you know all the previous years, even decades, what our foreign policy revolved around in terms of cooperation with the west, whether the international monetary fund will give me money there or not , and there was always talk of some sums within the limits of a billion dollars or euros and always the ukrainian government is very different from the representatives of the ukrainian government, we were 10 years old playing this and that and that and that with the international monetary fund and somehow they were fooled somehow, they gave us a little something, then they didn't give us anything. we will receive the next tranche, now the price and errors on the part of the ukrainian authorities are increasing dramatically, because it is one thing that in the previous years of the decade we used these tranches simply to support the economy, now the money is not for reconstruction, it is absolutely critical the question of the life and death of the nation, we will either rebuild

or remain in ruins, so i would very much like that in the banking and in general in the government, regardless of the convocation, this government is the next one, and everyone perfectly understood that if we continue doing business from the south, as we did decades before the price of this will not be simply not receiving any tranche, the price of this will be the ruins that will remain on our land for decades , this cannot be allowed under any circumstances, what is it dear deputies, ah, our air time is coming to an end literally in one sentence in order to summarize our conversation, the potential is now and the credit of trust to our country is extremely in your opinion, how should we not lose it and how not to lose the support of international partners, ms. marie, there is nothing new here, in principle, yes, control control ah and control, this a must be a balance of power, and

you know you can’t blame everything on the war, there must be transparent procurement systems, there must be control both at the regional level and at the central level, the anti-corruption must work anti-corruption institutions, the rule of law, i.e., to complete the issue of the constitutional court, i.e., in principle, these are all the issues that have been accumulated for decades, and unfortunately , which have been transformed and for e let's say, we return to what was done there during the three that is, we are here, i am here, mr. andriyem, i agree that we are like a parliament, and like an opposition, we are, that is, a democracy that can control together with civil society, do not be afraid that , for example, some international experts will be involved well, you and i have what poland, for example, has gone through this path faster, that is, don't be afraid. the

more control, the more effective the use of funds, and the more trust our international partners will have. to add literally abbreviated, we need to offer our allies a simple and understandable model so that they can see how and where the money goes and what we get for this money, and it should be a constant revolving scheme, but when the money comes, it is spent right away. everyone understands and how and where are they? it is this and a permanent mechanism that must ensure the formation of stable trust in ukraine, from which trust in the ukrainian government, which should be a continuation of the enormous respect that the ukrainian people have now won back with blood and sweat at the front, and only this will give us the opportunity in the long term to ensure the reconstruction of the i i think everyone understands that reconstruction is not a year, not

two. god willing, if everything goes well there, in five years we will return everything that the russians destroyed to you, dear deputies andrii osadchuk and maria ionova hmm people's deputies of ukraine were with us on e direct communication, this will be the end of our on-air relay. andriy savchuk and i, ulyana panasyuk, were with you this morning. more news will be available. you will learn about all the most important things. by the south, the heroes are returning from the war, tired but indomitable. maksym provided the cover of military equipment and received a serious injury, but the spirit of a ukrainian officer is not so easy to

subjugate. with sincere thanks, we join the all-ukrainian flash mob, honor the hero, the war in ukraine is the main topic for ukrainians, victories and losses, analysis and forecasts , politics and geopolitics, serhiy rudenko and the guests of his program will talk about all this, people who have information and shape public opinion , people who defend ukraine and create the future already now the main and interesting thing in the program is the verdict by serhiy rudenko from monday to thursday at 1:00 p.m. repeat at 9:30 p.m.