by god above the rashists, this is clear, but reforms must also be carried out at the same time, because we have an example, a world example, when, for tens of years, states have candidacy and do not become full members of the european union, it seems to me that carrying out reforms is an internal war. it is precisely in such situations that it is very important that we have a victory on the domestic front as well, and the domestic front is the fight against corruption, which by the way, it is not a problem of the current government, it is a problem ukrainian society, by the way, and not only ukrainian society , we have had such statistics for years, i remember when i served in law enforcement agencies, when i'm sorry, they made indicators on the secretaries of village councils, they riveted, i'm sorry, the protocol

that did not even have a prospect of consideration in courts, and thus there were thousands the facts of the manifestations of corruption, and the europeans looked at us and wondered why we are so corrupt, although some signs of that scourge were introduced in european states, but they have a system of countermeasures for prevention and effective fight against corruption, because of that i am sure that the reform of the judiciary should be completed, and it seems to me that there is political will. the same applies to the appointment of the anti-corruption prosecutor, in general, i do not see any problems, and all other things of law enforcement reform that were started even before the war are also ongoing. do you agree that it will be a very difficult price, the price of human lives, but

the victory will definitely be, the victory must be over the muscovites, but the victory must be over the internal enemy, and i am sure that these processes must go at the same time, one does not interfere with the other, but the priorities belong to me. i agree. what is the main thing. victory on the foreign front is to defeat the muscovites. i will remind the tv viewers that yes, if possible. yes , of course, of course, look. agree ah, on the one hand, it seems clear that the external enemy is the first, the first task of defeating the external enemy is the first task of ukraine, but we must understand that if we do not defeat the internal mountain, it will be difficult for the external one to win here, too it is necessary to understand that we have two internal fodder, the first is corruption, well, from my point of view, corruption

should be equal to our current state to treason, because it is a game in favor of the threshold and it is not even a question of such a stock prosecutor. and in general, the state council is equal to corruption, respectively, all corrupt must start as greedy and cooperate and, accordingly, receive under article 111 as a treason from 15 years minimum, if not what is this for, first of all, secondly, there is more internal enemy , which if we do not win, it will also be difficult to win the fight against russia for its independence is a collaborator, potential, not actual, which is already potential, we understand that when moscow tried to enter kyiv, it calculated that the relevant political forces would rise here, which would be led by their collaborator government and demand that we, as deputies, lyudmila would join this moreover, people so that we expose these potential

collaborators and imprison them at least for hail, and there is one nuance here, if not the government, including the motherland and deputies of others, we will not do this. i'm afraid that people will do this to us because the state in this case is not fulfilling its function, this is a very important point, i'm just really afraid if people start to fulfill the function of the state, taking into account the number of weapons that are in their hands, we are talking about unregistered weapons, we understand how many emotions there are in our society now this is an extremely dangerous situation, i just don't even want to think about such a thing mykhailo tsimbalyuk here i will tell you yes , victory must definitely come, but when will corruption remain at that level, olezhe, what is it it was today yesterday, then the day after our great victory, the european community will not take us into its family because it will become an

obstacle, because of this, the ball is in the court of the ukrainian authorities, it is necessary to immediately ensure the appearance of a representative of the authorities at the meeting of the election commission of the head sapu, he will be appointed, and all the criminal proceedings and examples you mention will be referred to the court and a decision will be made, because there is a criminal proceeding on medvedchuk, which is referred to the court under the article treason, it is still being heard in court because of that decision has not yet been passed or here. it is important that all courts follow the process, including the constitutional supreme court. struggle we have our own internal expertise, which

consists of well-known specialists, there are other things, we generally rejected the understanding of the opposition during martial law. the same applies to the european solidarity and our colleagues from the voice, but there are things that the opposition will not do without the government, because there is a member of the commission from the government who does not appear. i don't want to go into the details, but in fact, with political will, it can be done very quickly and immediately in july to appoint an anti-corruption prosecutor and one point will be fulfilled based on what our european colleagues put to us or the wishes of our european colleagues, that is, all because of one person who unfortunately does not appear, the last result is this and we do not see whether it has been approved the decision on the election of the candidate who won what is known from open sources is public why

treason is more important than what the state council says is preventive protection detention as under this as well as medvedchuk if it is just corruption a person got money and went to the next day uh, how uh, the deposit came out the next day after the debate, so that the street is not in kyiv, if it is the state council, it is much better. at least there is no possibility to interfere with any processes or state policy because therefore, it is more important than what you are saying about the proposal to the verkhovna rada regarding without alternative we are ready we are ready to support the verkhovna rada there is a corresponding bill it is under consideration by the committee we support we will support let's

pass rather, on the agenda for the next meeting, if this is the problem, it seems to me that this is not the case at all, mr. people's deputy, i will not argue with you about this because it would required a very long professional discussion. and the wording alarmed me a little about potential traitors. as far as i understand, a potential traitor is an oxymoron because, well, you know, there is a potential rapist, a potential thief, that is, a person is either a traitor, that is, if there is some factual , documented basis, because how to deal with that please clarify, please, and i will explain when the orcs entered kyiv and tried to leave, they were based on the relevant political forces that planned to intercept vlad, but they did not, that is, they actually a function that they tried but it is necessary that they planned but on the other hand they were preparing for

it they had cooperation with uh the appropriate bodies there with moscow already the appropriate bodies of the russian empire they promoted there for more than six months for several years the russian thesis russian propaganda socialist theses which they are used in order to shake the government, that's why i say that the potential , on the one hand, they had an intention and, uh, thoughts about them, they didn't manage to uh, uh, do it, i understand. i think they are just members of the agent network for the mark how the law enforcement agencies that are currently operating in the state will be endowed with all the powers to detect, document, initiate criminal cases, refer them to court, what you say, i agree with you , moreover, there are rumors among the people that even in some regions, people who were supposed to lead were preparing the so-called authorities, it is precisely on these that we expect

the final result from the law enforcement agencies, maybe let's close the meeting and hold it in the verkhovna rada so that what needs to be decided for that for law enforcement officers to work and on that topic, we seem to have created all the conditions for them, we simplified criminal proceedings during the war, we gave prosecutors the opportunity to work in this direction in general, that is, it seems to me that there should be freedom here, as i understood from your words, there is expertise, there is a question because that to the pro-law enforcement agencies where the result is political will and this is a matter for the verkhovna rada, for example, there are such people's deputies who are definitely traitors to you, derkach medvedchuk, uh, there is novinsky, etc. we all understand that they are traitors and collaborators. well, the question is for the verkhovna rada. until when will they be people 's deputies, that is, people, and should care about the

interests of the ukrainian people, not a. they only care about the interests of moscow, and this is a question for the verkhovna rada to finally take up and accept the solution is at least the deprivation of such characters from the post of deputy, well p. mykhaylov well, what if the homeland did not sign the corresponding resolution, dear , dear daughter, the homeland did not sign, well , dear representative of the monomajority, you have them all authority to change the laws and let me remind you that in order to carry out criminal proceedings it is not necessary to remove the immunity of the deputy. what are you telling people about? the promise for zelenskyi and the deprivation of medvedchuk's parliamentary position was fulfilled. this is what medvedchuk said. today we voted on everything that concerns medvedchuk . registered, and here you

deal with the kovalovs, which of the servants of the people are currently in the kherson service, they are people's deputies who add to our incendiary dunyak of the people the deputy of ukraine, who is currently in lugano, i can't understand, stop so easily, yaroslav, you can hear us, it's an extremely heated discussion. who are suspected of committing treason but who are still, so to speak, the proud owners of the mandate. and what answer do you want to hear from me? an extremely heated discussion, well, the people's deputies are holding themselves in their hands. so, lugano, tell us, please, the weather is beautiful - we can see

that very good information was coming in. information that managed to push through some very important decisions for ukraine, so to speak, share, mr. yaroslav, let's probably take turns at the conference, really, i'm positive passed for ukraine a-and i would like to compliment the ukrainian delegation er-er it was much better prepared than er-er it was in previous years excellent presentations by all the speakers, most of them spoke normal in english, which sent us to the level, including speaking from another country , so i think that ukraine prepared well, they did their homework normally, there was only one whole presentation that we all did within the framework of the national council of recovery, and in 6 weeks, we worked on all the documents which, in principle, were approved by our international partners and we definitely received in

the person of the course panderalna as the president of the european union and e-e commission and, accordingly, from other participants of the e-international conference support and reassurance that we will maintain conversations on our way to our victory. well , of course, after the question that remains open is what will be the coordination of donors - this is the main question. unfortunately , our international partners do not have a definitive answer to this question yet. and that is why it will be very important the last e-e of this meeting, which will be attended by mr. prime minister in the first place, where it will be discussed how the platforms for the restoration of ukraine will look in the future, which do not join and give such volumes financing and of course what are the priority steps , mr. yaroslav, well, we started our

discussion and today actually from the moment that usula von derlin spoke about about the appointment of the head of the specialized anti-corruption prosecutor's office, we understand that on the one hand there is a war, on the other hand there are quite clear specific demands from the of the european community, yes, seven steps that ukraine should implement, to what extent the completion of homework will be related to our receipt of macroeconomic aid well, i will say frankly the issue of the appointment of the head of the sap, which has already passed competition and let's be honest, a very strange situation has been happening for a long time, his appointment, the announcement of the results of this competition, this is the question that was raised most in the attic, i was afraid of everything personally, after talking with our international partners, everyone who wants to unlock this appointment has zero chance that they can continue to do it one way or another, it will be an

unconditional indicator of whether we fulfill our promises, obligations and laws. by the way, with regard to ukraine, including whether or not therefore, if ukraine wants and uh, i am sure that i am counting on the european future and the support of the macro-financial here and now uh, and i will remind you that we need an unprecedented amount of at least 30 billion dollars by the end of the year, then we must fulfill our obligations well, they took it upon themselves and appointed the head of the garden for that once again. i think that there is no chance of somehow further blocking it, well, there are almost no willing substances, there are any authoritative powers on this. thank you, mr. yaroslav. well, we understand that 30 billion dollars or 30 billion euros this is an extremely serious amount, yes, and we understand that the economy is not just the economy, we are

actually talking about the people who live in our country , that is, a certain level of stability must be maintained, in particular economically, we understand that the russians destroyed a significant part of our industry , they did it deliberately counting on a certain fortunately, its socio-economic collapse did not occur due to the good financial will shown by our western partners, returning to the situation in the verkhovna rada, the question of mr. dundy, what do you think, will it be possible to draw up some kind of consolidated plan, which i don't know, would suit both the ruling circles and the opposition circles, and here we understand the question is not even about effectiveness, because i think that the plan of the sly is good. because, as we rightly noted at the beginning of our conversation, now there is no government or opposition, people who are on the side of ukraine, but there are, so to

speak, people who are against ukraine, despite the fact that they may hold the mandates of the pandunda, well, look i just spoke with the entire team of ms. yaroslav he is not part of the government, he is sometimes often part of the position, he confirmed that this plan gives him optimism, he agrees with it for the most part, that is why yaroslav has already answered part of your question. trust in availability. thank you , mr. mykhailo. well, actually uh, i congratulate uh, the members of the delegation of ukraine, because what can be seen from open sources, the work was carried out professionally, and this, in my opinion, is a very positive signal and a step for the international community that ukraine is ready to accept the aid, and the amount of that aid depends on this trip. ukraine is ready for reconstruction and

it is important that the international community supports it, and i heard what mr. yaroslav said about the head of sap, and i will once again emphasize this question only for the ukrainian authorities, well, the question now is for mr. yaroslav who just mentioned the information that appeared on the sidelines, yaroslav, please share and be kind to real conversations, we understand that the protocol part requires one thing, but what happens outside the official part is no less it is important the questions raised by the representatives of the european community, the demands that they would like to be implemented by ukraine. well, in general, what is the direction of ukraine's movement, they see, in particular , it is about the institutional stamp on our passport, the members of the candidate, and if we allow

the preparation of the plan, it is not there was a plan, the plan of the government or the opposition, a really huge number of deputies from different factions were involved and i am grateful for that, but i will just remind you that we have a supervisory board under the national council, to which french peace is also attached yama and ms. mr. mcflu and yura harachenko and who would teach in berlik, and accordingly we have representatives of the world bank involved, well, that is, there was a wide enough involvement and the mackenzie company was preparing it there is one of the best strategic companies in the world with this plan that is why it is really what everyone burned and with and and it gave its results so when there is a huge number of experts almost all of them were involved thank you for supporting the desire they joined then after that it is very difficult to re-criticize when you did one way or another my contribution, this plan now, as for the goods , once again, what do you know really well? we are

usually accustomed, especially to war, for some reason to think that europeans or our international partners are such wise and respectable people, and ukrainians, well, this is what they think of as the m-marshru-less syndrome worth why, in this case , the assessment of ukraine's progress, especially during the war, was high enough, almost all the speakers and officially and unofficially noted that they were surprised that a country that is in a full-scale war when every institution, including to receive a package e-e blow that it works effectively enough and there are still talks about reforms and they also show that this speed of decision-making is faster than, including, the european union, and specifically the program for joining the european union of the ukrainian union and acquiring full membership, what was said was not voiced and what will be

discussed further is just an additional platform at the level of the european commission, the main purpose of which will be the allocation of money to ukraine so that it reaches all criteria and the european union was rebuilt and the so-called built something better than what was destroyed before that is exactly the narrative that ursula von der leyen laid in her speech and then the following a-a it sounded quite straightforward and set the tone for the entire conference that ukraine should be a member of the eu, this is not discussed, the candidates have already received a lot of work ahead of them, but this work is achievable within a certain number of years, and here in the european straight line, they tried a platform in order to help as soon as possible, and now it will be defeating a person and bypassing the european union is the second

message of what is the bill zelenskyi in his speech that all international partners agreed with him in this case, that now the reconstruction in the country is not only a question of ukrainians and the ukrainian authorities, it is a question of the whole world because we have once again proved that we are not only for our own freedom but also the implementation of the freedom of the entire european union and this message was received quite positively and was discussed quite strongly on the sidelines uhu thank you very much sir yaroslav, well, we were contacted by yaroslav zheleznyak, a people's deputy of ukraine who worked in lugano, he told extremely important moments , in particular from the sidelines of this well, mega important for the history of the modern history of ukraine conference

. and e.e. mykhailo tsimbalyuk, people's deputy of ukraine, retired lieutenant general of the ministry of internal affairs, respectively, issues of supervisory boards and control, yaroslav zheleznyak mentioned francis fukuyama like that, it's very cool, but you're already giving me francis fakuyama is a visionary, he is quite a deep social thinker , unfortunately, fortunately, a large part of his predictions did not come true, in particular, it is about his fundamental work, the most famous of which is dedicated to the end of history, which will come in the disappearance of the bloc confrontation, but there are no questions for francis fakuyama, so to speak, for people who will files will be presented, papers will be signed , estimates will be made, and so on, the question of the supervisory effectiveness of various supervisory councils, because we remember our time in the previous political professor

baltserovych, the former prime minister of ukraine, was involved in cycles of similar processes. yes , the author is the prime minister of poland. yes, the author is the author of the powerful reform plan in a rather unpleasant and painful field. he is still remembered , so to speak, with an evil but warm word. in any case, he worked in a certain position as an adviser. yes, but he did not manage to bring it to fruition. well, the main thing is that the mechanism should be effective now, mr. mykhailo p. er places where was held in our country in harmony with one of our regional centers luhansk, it is clear that our powerful delegation was prepared, which came with a landing party from various political forces and

they really represented ukraine as a state, it is also positive when we unite around the problems that exist when it comes to defense it is the state, and in this case it is the future of the state, but once again emphasize clearly that no one or few people will allocate funds to the state, which does not have a guarantee that this money will not be embezzled because of this, this should be decided unequivocally the most complaints from international investors is the rule of law, the reform of judges, i emphasize once again, we are on it and are sure that with joint efforts we will complete it, as they say, the next thing is the anti-corruption prosecutor, he can be appointed this month, these are already two issues that will be removed from the order in the afternoon, the next thing in the future, until there is our great victory, money will not flow en masse from this, it should be understood by everyone, because

few people will dare to invest money in that period in that state, where at any moment something can fly in again, but there is a political will, there is a desire of the international community to invest, and what's more, the european union is already investing in its future family, a part of ukraine is a family, ukraine is a family of a part of europe , because of that it is an unambiguously positive step. we must do our work after that, we heard how president zelensky i gave greetings to some people, so he didn’t see everyone in ukraine, who was there. i think people understood this, mr. who do you think, people’s deputy, i gave greetings to the president of ukraine, decode these hints. well, i think it’s better to ask directly from the president, i cannot access

this moment and it was not for me, but regarding the supervisory acts, look again, i emphasize that any decisions, any actions that we take and perform, they must first of all be considered from the point of view national interests, well, the interests of salt macron, the elimination of conden they have their own countries, their own people whether they care or not we must take care of our interests, and therefore when we make this or that decision that we are advised there, for example, ursu, we should mindlessly simply to accept in order to put a check mark no, we must reformat it in favor of ukrainians , for example, according to the same ice councils, you cannot simply take european pensioners to the supervisory councils in order for them to receive in this way, the pension must be earned in europe, we must

have there is no responsibility, there is no efficiency, no responsibility, if you are a member of the supervisory board of ukrzaliznytsia, respectively, at the end of the year, you must report and how was your work useful to the supervisory board of ukrzaliznytsia in general, if it is not useful for ukraine, why do you have the prefix ford in your last name ? well, why is it ukraine, or you were once a european commissioner and here, or you were once the president of poland 20 years ago? well, as ukrainians, it is of no use to us sense and benefit, respectively, when we will form a supervisory board, we need to ask the question of efficiency and responsibility and compliance of the members of the digital house and approach each question in this way, thank you, thank you, mr. oleg , well, i just wanted to say this in conclusion

that it is very important, after all, there is such an element as a tool of reputation, we understand that a lot of solid people are not included in these or other organizations, for example, when the same professor baltserovych was offered to enter a project that was pro-russian or frankly for gazprom money, he said, "i do not use my reputation" i trade so, accordingly, we have to take this into account, and thank you very much, mr. oleg tunda, people's deputy of ukraine mykhailo tsimbalyuk, people's deputy of ukraine, you did a great job analyzing extremely important internal ukrainian transformations and i convey the words to my colleagues from radio svobody so that, dear dear editors of radio svobody, good luck. as they say , russian troops are preparing an offensive on bakhmut and siversk