the construction of ukraine is money, confiscated russian assets, but in order to use this money , you still need to work very hard to do all this legally, to attract this money through the courts, or are there any other possible mechanisms, have they discussed it? in lugano. of course, that was also directly the case, but what is the power of the market economy? because they are trying to ask questions about the untouchables of private property. to confiscate it there, it must be proven unfortunately, russian assets are quickly hidden, they are transferred to relatives and super relatives and other things that will constantly take a long time to catch up to press them, but if you take the financial system, education is mostly known everything down to a penny what

is where and to whom it belongs this is just that , next to the international security system and the international court of justice. that is, you have decided this issue. ukraine needs its nuremberg trial against communism and against russia. there are 24 areas of the recovery plan in general. describe them, please. there is an opinion that this is a somewhat scattered plan and some things are too general. what do you think about this? how did the un money become protective in the 19th century, but i would point out that the development will be completely different when we invest as much as possible in the education system

. it's learning because this is the main real capital that can change ukraine, let's just remember the example of afghanistan, where almost 12 or 40 billion dollars were provided in a short time, but people were not ready to understand what democracy is and what freedom is and all this came down to the fact that the provision of freedom and the adoption of education of the population is the main economic and social development . when will we see at least some of the first results and what will they be when some kind of recovery begins or can we even expect that one day in the news we will see that the first results

of these negotiations in lugano already exist, given the fracture, they need to be constantly introduced, sir, but the first results are visible questions that will be when we drink russia we get a victory because large and structural projects they need security because they return long-term yes there 40 years 50 years so far we can see about it from such agro and even agrovi you see how the fields are named here, our task is not just to win, our question is to win and survive, that is, to survive and win, to save the lives of ukrainians as much as possible, and this is the first task that must be solved now, but you need to plan already now, that is, it will speed up reforms and success , actually, and er. thank you mr. zen. this is an absolutely correct opinion. unfortunately, the war may drag on, but

er, something must be done, including now we have to live with it one way or another. well, wednesday is from switzerland where in fact, the international conference where the issue of the future reconstruction of ukraine was raised has already ended. thank you. in the meantime, mr. oleg penzin is in touch with us . and about er-er other important economic issues, including let's talk a little about russia and p olezh good day and we are glad to see you also sincerely glad to see that from time to time we have messages usually about the russia is closed, what sanctions are applied to the aggressor country, what companies are leaving russia,

yes, kfc announced that it is finally leaving the market, joined mcdonald's, and they also decided to sell their chain, there are such moments, yes volkswagen is shutting down production in russia, and the volvo company also announced the layoff of its employees. well, in general, in our information field, it looks like, well, everything is so sad in russia, and on the other hand, well, it's just a question, uh, that it's expensive, it's expensive too and for for volkswagen, it is expensive for western society , it all also affects prices, taxes, etc. according to tanya, is it possible to defeat russia in an economic way, and can sanctions, relatively speaking, force russia to stop this war ? this topic and here's your opinion, we

understand that the sanctions are in effect, the question is whether ukraine is all the same, can russia be forced to stop the war only by actions no, you can't you will speak right away well why are we lying to each other russia is possible it is possible to weaken russia, you can bleed it, you can lower the standard of living of its population, but there are several things that need to be understood, first of all, there is no common front of the economic front and against the russian federation from the point of view of worldwide support for sanctions . take advantage of the sanctions policy that the world applies in relation to the russian federation. there is india, which buys russian oil at a huge discount; there is turkey, which is formally a candidate member

of the european union, but pursues its very independent economic policy and its desire to actively participate in the export of ukrainian wheat well , and the creation of a ukrainian agricultural hub in turkey for 25% of the cost of ukrainian grain is also not free. first of all, it is necessary to understand that today russia is weakening in russia, today the incomes of the population have really fallen for the first time in a very long period of time russia is really today the gdp is falling - this is a matter of birds and we want at least to hope for this, in fact, there is even such a project in ukraine, er, the kyiv school of economics, and er, some

economists are also engaged in calculations. so stay with us and p ole-o well, here we all are. here we are, the four of us. there are already two of you, as we found out. lugano, the public internet is not the strongest part of this beautiful city. well, maybe today it's just the stars became you mr. maxim, let's try to get in touch with maxim over there by phone. do you hear from us? good day. good day. good day. we're also glad to hear from you about the latest germany information about how much damage i caused to russia in ukraine. our goal is to keep a detailed register of all damage as material damage, that is, damage to the infrastructure of destroyed houses, damaged

roads, power grids, burned stocks in business warehouses, and so on, and so we began to count indirect losses, that is, losses from blocked exports, losses from the fact that the state spends on emigrants, losses of people who are forced to go abroad and, accordingly, can not work and earn and produce some added value, and so on, so the first category is purely physical destruction, which is relatively easy to confirm in court, they are now approaching the equal amount of 100 billion dollars if we talk about indirect damages - this is a much more subjective category than the last figure announced by mr. prime minister luganov it amounts to about 750 billion dollars these are the funds that ukraine needs

over the next 10-15 years to actually restore and modernize its economy to the european level. who was lugano rather anti-annually. look, this of course depends on what goal the government set for itself, because if you compare with previous similar events in which i took part, and they were held with the exception of the leading year and after maidan i would say that the impressions are rather positive , er, the ukrainians in the stickers were quite well prepared, i mean the government speakers, they had quite convincing numbers, these numbers were almost the first time in history that there were some detailed calculations and not just well, there we say 10 because because 10 because we came up with this

at night, the cases were actually presented in normal english in program documents that were immediately posted on the site so that all participants could view them in different sectors that i was personally impressed even before the competition, program materials were sent to prepare all the foreign guests and facts about what was happening in ukraine, and all this was quite positive and the discussions were at a sufficiently high level because of what it rather causes i have a question. i haven't heard from the western community any specific concrete decision on the coordination of donor aid. this is the problem that actually faced ukraine before the war and now it is only becoming more urgent. it seemed that the european union is preparing its aid program and the americans are preparing their aid program to international organizations such as the world bank have expressed that

they have their own program and of course they cannot unite with states and so on. delays and for which sectors there will be double funding and we will all want to work, but somewhere we will not be able to ask for a single penny, so of course we still have to work and work, you know, if we allow i also ask what you really think about such a thing , if we understand that war can be a difficult question , i understand, uh, we understand that war can drag on for a long time, it can actually last for years, and here valery the baker is an economist, he is famous, he makes such an analogy as a computer "computer strategies" where, relatively speaking, on the one hand you fight and on the other hand you develop the economy, and this is a guarantee that your army is also becoming stronger in our country. now, i looked at the indicators for the budget of the budget filling for the last month

you know, of course, which article is the biggest now, filling the budget, this is it, of course, in the last month, for the first time, we were able to draw up the budget thanks to the help of our international partners, it will be written off, in particular, it exceeded the emission of money from the national bank, but in principle, this is what ukrainian money is the mission of the national bank, that is, well, in other words, we are just now printing money and there it is backed up by the help of the west, but there are also problems here. we cannot hope all the time, for example, two years for a year even on the one hand, on the other hand, we cannot print money endlessly. someone very well mentioned the example of the weimar republic, where trillions of marks were later printed, yes, and , well, that is, we all understand it, according to

the question of what it is very important to do with the economy, and it is valuable in our country that maksym nefyodov is with us. we also understand that in the structure of, for example, the pre-war economy, customs revenues were very important. can we now to count on filling through customs, that is, how to change the very structure of revenues so that the economy still works and feeds ukraine, and on the other hand, well, even if we move to the european union, one way or another, customs revenues will not be the main source of income, well, that is, simply can we now? can we finally? when we win, we will end the war, we will start the process to think whether this is an ok approach and what can be done now and in which direction to move . well, i just think that mr. maksym is sitting on the phone right now, it is probably more difficult for him because

it is expensive from luhansk maksym then let 's respond later oleg thank you for taking care of my roaming but actually uh, the war is not an excuse for the lack of reforms, including in the economy. by the way, one of the things that all the western speakers noted positively there is also that uh, ukraine despite the fact that it is in the most aggressive and large-scale armed conflict in the last 70 years of ukraine continues the functioning of all its institutions, and these institutions are not only engaged in supporting the pants, and somewhere more successful, somewhere less successful, but still we are talking about european integration, we are talking about the implementation of european directives, we are talking about the changes that are there, the reforms that we

have to carry out in order to really to get closer to joining the european union, somewhere it is moving more successfully , for example, in its transport, where the so -called transport visa-free is signed, which finally finally resolves the issue with these permits that were a problem for all ukrainian truckers every year, every year, this issue at the borders, er, there is a speck of corruption, and so on, it is now completely removed somewhere, unfortunately, it is less successful, for example, with our epic on the appointment of an anti-corruption prosecutor . further, but one way or another, it cannot be underestimated that the state, thanks to the ukrainian army and the ukrainian people, volunteers, and all nations continues to work actively. this also applies to the economy. scale with own resources to cover all military expenses of the usual well, let's

be realistic during the second world war, even america and britain came to rationing , sorry, oil and gasoline came to food cants came to taxes that reached in america and britain on some categories of income 99 point 99% i mean, i'm not mistaken, in fact, there will be such tax rates when the state took practically everything and it's not from a good life, because there was a struggle for, well, in fact, for the very existence, and that's why, of course, we we are counting on the help of international partners, and this is one of the main theses and tasks , including their similar conferences, to convey that ukraine is fighting not only for itself, but ukraine is now a shield that protects the west from the russian invasion , and if european partners, american partners , euro-atlantic partners do not want to finance the ukrainian struggle now literally in a year

they will have to finance their own defense against the continuation of russian aggression, so i am just an optimist in the sense that uh, in western countries will continue to support us, and here they absolutely agree with my friend valery phai that ukraine, having access to much larger all measures, is naturally in a better strategic position than russia, yes. i support from the point of view that in no way is ukraine today economically capable of waging a war on its own, and moreover, at the moment, it is impossible to expect the ukrainian economy to cover its needs today's moment based on the official data given by the international labor organization in its

report on enough war, ukraine lost 4.8 million jobs, this is approximately a little less than 30% of the entire ukrainian labor market, moreover, mop wrote a very interesting thing that if the war continues for another six months, the total volume of the fall in the labor market in ukraine may reach 7 million jobs. this is a little less than half, well, that is, we must understand that with such a loss of jobs, we can expect that tax revenues will correspond needs, well, at least at least overlapping of military needs is definitely not possible, and today, for the month of june, we have official data that ukraine spent 250 billion uah and received 90 billion. e.e., the

national bank of ukraine purchased war bonds, or simply put, the issue, and somewhere around a small part was covered with the help of our partners , i.e., the partners gave somewhere in need of $5 billion 2.3-24 billion are all the latest - this is a friend of the funds, this is the latest internal borrowing well, so we have to understand that economically at the moment ukraine will not be able to fight without help by the way, not only economic, and we have to understand that and from a military and technical point of view, we really need help. and actually, when we discuss the results of the report of the ukrainian leadership, this is actually the need for macroeconomic stability and stabilization of those 60 billion dollars that ukraine is actually offered to receive in the 22nd year these are precisely the funds that actually go to

cover the deficit of the state budget. i think that mr. maksym well will confirm that this is exactly the figure that was called for the 22nd year. well, we have absolutely critical things related to the restoration of real housing for those people who lost it, other issues are critical in terms of the infrastructure of the boiler house, which is the last because this winter will be extremely difficult. and from the point of view of the fact that the energy carrier is very expensive today, so we absolutely need help, and really here i have to agree with mr. president and with the speakers at that conference who said that the restoration should not start until the end of the year, but at least those critical things that are necessary in order for ukraine to survive in the future should be done already and therefore it is not worth waiting there for 23-25 ​​years when the war seems to end it is

necessary to start restoring the 15 billion dollars for the restoration of the critical structure this year so that people can at least live normally this winter, but it is also impossible to deny it at the beginning of the war they said that the resource of this aid, that ukraine has an infinite resource of aid to a certain extent, because behind us is the economy of the european union, behind us is the economy of the united states, which is ten times larger than the economy of the russian federation. these are just the legs, we will ask maxim if he has a moment left, if he has the feeling that this help is not closed, that it is open and it will only increase, eh, i definitely remain optimistic in this situation, and what i heard at the competition is that that all the countries that were there were ready to

support and provide ukraine and that is why this aid is not closed and will continue. this is absolutely a fact , but on the other hand, we must also be extremely honest with the international western taxpayers in which we we are asking for these funds , in fact, to perform the homework that is needed not by them, but by us in order to achieve this state of self-sufficiency and euroinflation, which was talked about just a moment ago. yes, we can definitely count on help, but it comes on in the form of a gift, it is simply for the fact that we are ukrainians , and it also comes because western partners must see that we are taking the right steps . judicial norms regarding the same anti-corruption prosecutor,

other things, and we have to continue the reforms and use this time of a very difficult war . at the front well, actually, and i don’t know for sure, we should already let go of maksym nefyodova i know that he also has a critical time there because he has to go already maksym, thank you, thank you very much and i am absolutely convinced that ukraine will win thank you, the head of the state customs service of ukraine in the 19-20s and now, the co-founder of the russia project will pay . let's go back to oleh olezhin, actually. kirill shevchenko. he also just published his article

today, well, literally, actually, it seems like an hour and a half because he actually also says that it is not an option to just print money and we have to find some kind of model, but none the less, in order to support the economy well, what can we do in the data, uh, in this story ? for example, is raising taxes a good move? we tried to reduce taxes in principle. did it bear fruit? according to your assessment, now they say that, for example, let's increase taxes. it is necessary . what is the solution? do we still need to calm down and say that they should give us money, more money? we are all fighting for the time being. well, in that case, this is it, too. there must be some other conclusions . because all the mechanisms must be used to form the expenditure parts of the budget,

but at least those taxes that do not in any way affect the stability of the ukrainian economy. they must be paid, and i personally fully support, for example, the return taxation of customs clearance of cars entering the territory of ukraine because, from my point of view, this is clearly a fairly serious source of revenue for the state budget, so it was definitely done correctly that all import taxes were returned, except for certain elements of critical imports, in particular petroleum products, because according to - first of all, it created not very competitive conditions for domestic business and, uh, definitely made big enough holes in the state budget when you and i are talking about how it will be as it should be

in theory, the ukrainian economy should develop in theory, then there should definitely be mechanisms of stimulation from the state side. that is, we are already seeing with you today the 57-9 program, it is true, unfortunately , today it is not working in full as it should be, but without real help from the state budget for one or another recovery of the economy for enterprises for startups e.e. for support for one or another, let's say relocation of ukrainian business e.e. without this we definitely cannot do anything and here in the expenditure part of the state budget we need to start looking funds to support domestic recovery to support the domestic economy, why am i talking about this because, first of all, it is probably a huge mistake to wait for funds seized by the russian federation to come to ukraine. well, honestly , the reparations we are talking about and those seized

assets of the central bank of russia, the russian oligarchs we are talking about, which um, from the point of view of our uh, let's say uh, the economists who offered a position in lugano have their own uh, fill 750 billion at least to a certain part. it's definitely not one or two and not even 10 years of knowing the european judicial practice, it is a very long process, so when we start to have hope for that money, we can wait for a very long time and nothing as a result of it in the near future and we do not receive a papa from us, in fact, we have to sum it up there in us literally, this conversation is already over. well, i think that the question that remains is that those who are tired of talking about this question again , well, cutting budget losses where they can be cut and that they once talked about a 50% reduction of the state apparatus of some kind there

huge amounts of money are really spent. thank you oleg penzin, the executive director of the economic discussion club was in touch with us to finish this air hour nastya and thank you to those who watch us continue to watch our air well, we will see you a little later i think we have a lot in common we even small common state vital values ​​struggle for independence historical heritage and vision of the future yours chose the right path lithuania is with you you have always offered us a friendly shoulder ukraine will never be alone in the fight against russian aggression in the 14th coronavirus in the 20th. this winter, your struggle is our struggle. the lithuanians were the first to give us weapons and freedom. and this is our freedom and

they called the name of our enemy russia to the whole world. thank you for your support. we are happy to have such friends and partners. ukraine congratulates lithuania on the day of statehood, a petition demanding to return espresso channel five to the digital airwaves and live received more than 25,000 votes on the website of the cabinet of ministers, ukrainians stood up for the protection of freedom of speech, now it is the government's turn, do not ignore the opinion of ukrainians, return ukrainian information tv channels, digital air, february 24, the date that changed us, the date that changed the world and now. what interests us the most is our victory, when we will defeat the enemy, how to predict the course of the war, the saturday program