for ukraine, this is a verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, everyone, good day and good health, about the participation of belarusians in the russian-ukrainian war, putin's gas blackmail of europe, the announced offensive of the ukrainian army in the south, we are talking today with our guest, he is the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-2009, a politician and diplomat volodymyr hryshko, mr. volodymyr, i am glad to welcome you to our program. i wish you good health. i congratulate you, mr. sergey. i am also glad to be your guest as usual and i hope that through joint efforts informational, political, military, diplomatic, we will definitely win, let's start with putin's gas blackmail, because we have been watching for the last few days how the russian federation is reducing the supply of gas to western europe, at the same time, the minister of finance of

france, bruno lemer, said that the french government is preparing to the complete cessation of supplies of russian gas to the russian government. and the topic of russian gas is still relevant. because on july 10, canada announced that it would return the repaired siemens turbine that was on repair in canada, which is necessary for pumping gas on the northern stream, one ukrainian side reacted quite harshly to this, saying that it is not possible under a sanctioned state, in what way to encourage the violation of international rules, since there are sanctions and this country should be under strict sanctions, let's let's listen to what volodymyr zelenskyi said about this story with the gas turbine, because it is very important and relevant for the current system of sanctions that works in the russian

federation. the ministry of foreign affairs had to to summon the representative of canada in our country due to an absolutely unacceptable exception to the sanctions regime against russia, this concerns not just some turbine for the nord stream gas pipeline that canada should not have, but nevertheless decided to hand over to russia in fact, it concerns common rules if a terrorist state can squeeze out such an exception in sanctions, what exceptions will she want tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, this issue is very dangerous and dangerous not only for ukraine but for all democratic countries of the world, the decision on the sanctions exception will be perceived in moscow exclusively as a manifestation of weakness , this is their logic just now, one can have no doubt that russia will try not just to limit as much as possible, but to completely stop such gas supplies to europe at the most acute moment. because every

concession in such conditions is perceived by the leadership as an incentive for further stronger pressure, mr. volodymyr, as the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine , you witnessed more than one gas blackmail of the russian i remember very well the seventh and eighth federations of 2007-2007, the eighth and 2009 years, when russia simply put the ukrainian state in front of the fact that gas may not be available in the winter, that the price of gas may be too high, that it will be unacceptable for businesses and for citizens, you are now observing the gas blackmail of european states, what can you say about this practice, which has existed for a long time, we have tested it on ourselves for a long time, but now we see how the russian federation is actually dispersing six months before winter this topic, the topic of gas shortages and blackmailing europe, well,

you know, mr. sergey, i really, when i hear these reports about turbines and about repairs , pseudo-repairs and so on, i definitely remember what we experienced in 2006 and 2009 when er, so demonstratively, under the camera, they blocked er, the gas valve for supplying it to ukraine when we were accused of stealing six with slogans and so on and so on. well, then we tried to explain to our western partners that this is blackmail a weapon is a way to bring one to one's knees and so on and so on. well, they didn't hear us, they didn't hear us because they didn't want to hear. today, i think they heard very well

, and thank god they will draw conclusions from this today. it would be more delicate to say well, ms. sakharova’s next submission on her telegram channel and she knows now so with such uh, well, uh, with such skepticism , she says, but what about all this european green energy when uh well, there he lists the countries that are renovating thermal power plants they are resuming coal mining and so on and so forth, nothing uh, they really uh, they will survive these two winters in quite difficult conditions, like us , by the way, but uh, exactly in two years, i think the end of the 23rd 2018 and the beginning of 2024 will be the last winter when russia sold its gas, er, its oil,

its coal to european countries. and then i think that there will be a sad song because you can blackmail , you can block the gas pipeline there, you can repair it there for months and the like. but when it will not be where to go for gas, then gas the wells will begin to be blocked and it will no longer be possible to restore it, so uh, well, we all understand very well what this means for the economy of the russian federation as this gas station that lives mainly at the expense of energy carriers, so i think that uh, in europe it should be clearly and clearly understood that e energy from russia is a dependency - self-dependency and this is a dependency therefore, it is necessary to finally get rid of it, one has to go through several unpleasant months , but it is impossible to solve the situation in any other way well, but in

russia there was this tool that influenced not only on ukrainian politics, in ukrainian politics, a lot of people became multi-millionaires or billionaires thanks to this gas, and then it actually all got out of our hands since 2014, when it became clear that a very large number of ukrainian politicians were dependent on russia, specifically on russian gas we also observed this in europe, well, at least in the position behind hungary. as i understand it, the energy component there was quite large and remains quite large, since through hungary both oil and gas enter europe and of other countries, how did europe miss this moment when gas became a political weapon for russia, how did it happen that the whole of europe actually sat on the gas needle of the russian federation well,

for sure, serhiy, in fact, the tools that are related to ukraine, that are related to western europe in february themselves and you mentioned them, it's corruption, it's blackmail and bribery. well, why don't we remember about our political figures with gas crowns on their heads because we don't know what was behind it, we don't know how they -e bought sold and resold, well, it is well known, well, some people got away easily , some are sitting, did they spend 10 years in an american prison, well, life was different, but, uh, the tools of russian politics were the same, uh, well, what happened that mr. -e chairs in moscow in gazprom and then russia and definitely or not it's not that simple, is

it the same fionn e-e former prime minister of france and so on. that is, it's all e-e far e-e and deeply planned operations who actually corrupted both the ukrainian leadership and the western response to this question is very banal, we just need to want less money, well, less money, well, unfortunately, in our country and in the west, politicians suffer very, very much from this disease, well, this is canada's decision to return this turbine, ottawa explains by saying that they have such a the way er this step supports europe's ability to have access to reliable energy while the europeans continue to refuse russian oil and gas in the face of this endless amount of sanctions

that are being imposed on the russian federation canada's withdrawal from this sanctions in practice, what does this mean? does this mean that moscow will perceive this as a certain step back and that in this way moscow will gradually achieve the cancellation of those sanctions that currently exist against russian politicians, against the russian economy, against ordinary russians? well, you know, there are many different things about this turbine in my opinion , at least i heard specialists who said that technologically, this is not a problem at all, because there are enough other turbines that are able to pump and pump this gas. it may be, it may not be, but this is not a critical moment here, in fact, russian blackmail, which

, now, has it revealed itself in full force, or is canada’s refusal to us dramatic, i think no, i don’t think it is this will mean that russia will dictate this stage to its own conditions. we have already arrived and there will be no more. well, there will be an attempt to find some compromises in order to somehow hold on. these years, well, look at the european commission after the transit of russians to lithuania goods in the crimean region, now lithuania says no, we act absolutely within the framework of the sanctions that are already in place and the european commission cannot do anything with lithuania. well, here i see in this canadian history mainly the traces of germany, the pressure of germany

on canada, and it will try to convince the canadians that without this turbine, it will be very bad in germany or there will be an economic collapse, everything, everything, everything . the gas transportation system of ukraine, which can transport up to 130 billion cubic meters of gas every year. this is more than the two northern streams combined , so in principle there is no problem here at all. this is uh, i think uh, it's just a personal request, probably the chancellor is going to uh, the canadian government. -e contribute to the fact that, as there in germany in particular , they like to say not to raise the degree by escalation, actually, i think this is the explanation for whether

sanctions are happening in the future. already the seventh package of sanctions, they will be prepared in the same way, that is, this skating rink will go on, of course, there will be certain nuances , but all the same, the skating rink is going and the russian economy is cracking because of that. well, we will just have to, for some a certain period of time. i do not mention that and about gas for nothing, because mr. volodymyr, it will be interesting to simply observe how the european states , the leaders of western europe, will respond to the demands or to any claims against the citizens of these countries in the event that they are cold in their homes, they will not will there be enough gas, do you think there is a danger that this winter the sanctions against the russian federation will still be eased because of the winter itself because of the

difficult situation that will be obvious in europe, well in ukraine it will definitely be difficult, mr. serhiu , we still have hmm a little less than half a year and a lot will depend on how the armed forces of ukraine end their summer-autumn operation » by liberating all ukrainian lands or at least 99% of these lands, i think that the situation will change radically both politically and economically and in

international plan therefore, it is still too early to talk about it now, but if the situation remains as it is for europe, we simply have to start a very wide campaign of clarification in the countries of the european union and nato about what it is is actually a payment for the policy that the governments of these countries have been carrying out in relation to russia for the past 30 years. this is really what costs money because it was impossible to make absolutely inadequate decisions, the same as germany. look at it . e with e-e get into the gas in dependence on russia is about 40-45%, well, this is already

higher than all possible limits. you can’t do that, so it was either some kind of stupid calculation that everything will be fine, dear vladimir, it will be good er president or is it uh, well, just some malicious actions against his own country, so what then do i think that german citizens will have to ask the previous leadership why this happened and why germany ended up a hostage of the uh, fascist russian regime. well, actually, this is that that i think it will be necessary to start already in the near future, so that by the winter, the german public will start to raise such questions in the same condition. they are absolutely right in that we are still far away and it is not clear what the consequences

of the offensive of the ukrainian army and the use of western weapons will be. how e-e warehouses are burning in the occupied areas in the occupied areas of the kherson region of the donetsk luhansk region. that is, this is only the beginning of the great offensive and the beginning of the great war already in ukraine to protect our territory video of the russian federation however, we we are still waiting for the meeting of the so-called rammstein group on july 20, at least the pentagon of the secretary of defense of the united states of america, lloyd austin, told about this to our minister of defense oleksiy reznikov that such and such a meeting will take place and it is clear that they have already met twice in this form only in the first format, i will remind our viewers that i was at the rammstein

air base, this is the air base of the united states of america in germany, the second time, er, in an expanded composition , this group met er and discussed assistance it is more true for ukraine that this group of 40 defense ministers, more than 40 defense ministers are participating in this rammstein so that they will support ukraine to the end. what to expect from the third rammstein , considering that the whole world, including the ministers of these forty countries, saw that the ukrainian army is ready to fight until the end to the victorious end well, i think we can wait for the continuation of this line i think that uh and you are absolutely right when uh the military sees that their help uh gives results that ukrainian uh

ads for these weapons look at the background what on these s-400 wallons, which russia sells for billions, including excuse me. unfortunately, and the ally of the composer, i mean turkey, they are powerless against the same aymerians. that means that, uh, well, the ukrainian armed forces are on e in real conditions not theoretical napoleons there, but in real conditions they demonstrate that western models of technology are an order of magnitude higher, more technological, more successful than russian ones. that is, by the way, this is also another blow to such an important sector of the russian economy, the export of weapons is not small, but it is about as much how much will russia get from er exports of its gold. so, drop by drop, it adds up to a very serious er minus for the russian

economy, which ultimately will not fulfill this, but going back to rammstein, that is, this means that er, the ukrainian armed forces er uh, they actually open up opportunities for our defense partners to, well, actually, with the hands of ukrainians , demonstrate the advantages of their uh, offensive and defensive weapons, because really uh, well, our heroes show what it is to learn quickly and what is apply it qualitatively. and those compositions performed by sergiya mentioned are a wonderful confirmation . i am not talking about the fact that in the event that enough forces have been accumulated and several cities, let's say, in the south or in the east, there will be er again er was released by

ukrainian er fighters, then there is no bigger and better advertisement in order to supply weapons further, in my opinion, or about the weapons used by russia and the supply of these weapons, there was information that iran plans to supply hundreds of combat drones to russia for war use against ukraine this was stated at a briefing by jake sullivan, the national security adviser to the president of the united states of america. according to him, this confirms the data that the russian military is facing difficulties, the army is provided with weapons after losses. so when we talk about the current russian-ukrainian war, we usually say who for who is our friend, who is our enemy, and of course there are many questions now about iran as a country that is ready to sell hundreds of combat drones to russia and what does this situation look like

for the russian federation, you as a person who very well characterizes the security system and the system of mutual relations that exist in the world. what can you say about the allies of the current russian federation and about those who believe that russia in this form should not exist, and even more so under the leadership of vladimir putin? you very delicately called these countries allies. the same autocratic regimes and thank god that they are. well, two times and there is no one we can count as putin's friends, so to speak. well, there are several such countries, such as the same morning in particular, that live in non-democratic paradigms of development, and in the

autocratic one, where the question of human rights does not exist at all, where he said, and that was the end of it, all debates stopped and so on. that is, this is a very limited and narrow field of ukraine, but you know that i do not so worried about all the political regimes that the russian federation's appeal to them for help means the collapse of the myth that russia imposed on the world that we are the strongest . we are the best. we are the most powerful . we are the most powerful. russia is gone what to fight if it turns to iran for bayraktars there or for drones, i think they

don’t have baktars and the quality of their armed forces is significantly inferior well, let’s say the same turkish qualities if moscow deconserves tanks from the 60s and this er, a pile of metal is a scrap metal that just keeps going and that shoots er into the sky and not a message, then this means that the russian military machine will soon collapse er and you know this appeal of the russians to the iranians er me even more confirms in his mind that uh, very soon, uh, ukraine uh, will have a real uh, not only a psychological advantage, but also a practical advantage on the battlefield, because no matter how many

drones iran has uh, uh, it's nothing compared to this help that will go after this very thing ramshta er four after the american winx will finally work to the full extent of american winx and believe me, we are now approaching the point when russia will reduce its potential and ukraine will increase it and from this point we will count the days until our complete victory we all remember and saw it's like sergei lavrov was boycotted at the meeting of the g20 foreign ministers, and we remember what lavrov said about it , but now lavrov's mouth is maria zakharova saying that russia can boycott the meeting of the g20, how do you feel about the upcoming

meeting which should take place in november 2022 in indonesia and where vladimir putin was invited, uh, in your opinion, will he come there or not, or maybe the president of indonesia will still withdraw the invitation to putin in view of what was happening actually it is happening in ukraine or will this boycott be in the style of the soviet union when soviet athletes boycotted the olympics that took place in the united states of america uh, you know i already talked about it and now i can only repeat once again that russian diplomacy has long since stopped it doesn't exist, and mr. lavrov hasn't been the minister of foreign affairs and the minister of propaganda for a long time

, and his whole structure is the ministry of propaganda, that's what zakharova says. well, we all understand that you can safely put her in line skabeeva there, vsimanyan, er, solovyov, and other selected propagandists, it’s one and the same, so er, there is nothing really new here, and we all understand that the situation with diplomacy in russia will not improve in any way until the moment we are at least this the regime will not go down in history relative to lavrov himself. well, you see, if you sold your soul to the devil, you already have to dance to his girlfriend, and i think that he perfectly understood what kind of meeting they would arrange for him in indonesia, but in the meantime

he had to go because he was told so here he is i went and got a real rehearsal of everything that happened there, or if putin comes there in november, i think the situation will be even worse than it was then. do you remember in australia, when he sat alone somewhere at a table, no one wanted to be with him come up, it's the same thing. i think what will happen now if he risks not passing, but i think that this will not happen because it is another way to show him personally that they do not want a union with him, that they do not want to shake his hand. do you not want to stand even for for it to count it's better to solve some problems , that's why i think that it will be done as usual when a country is expelled, let's say, for betraying europe, then 20

minutes before this decision, russia loudly declares that it itself is leaving this organization well, there were several similar cases as well. i think that it will happen and now it is unlikely that the president of indonesia will withdraw his invitation , it was not diplomatic. it would be better not to to create problems neither for indonesians nor for other guests, so i think that there are almost no chances that putin will risk coming to indonesia, mr. volodymyr, i have repeatedly asked you over the past four months whether there are any diplomats or leaders left in the world the state that is ready to shake vladimir putin's hand after the war that he unleashed in ukraine, as of today, what

would you say is the proportion of those countries and those leaders who are still ready to perceive putin as a person who is included in the 20 leaders of countries which affect the world economy and when will they finally stop inviting him to the big seven meetings , the big seven plus one, when will they stop inviting him to big summits and in this way legitimize what he is doing in ukraine