the spirit of war in ukraine is the main topic for ukrainians victory and loss analysis and forecasts politics and geopolitics serhiy rudenko and the guests of his program will talk about all this people who have information and shape public opinion people who defend ukraine and create the future right now the main and interesting thing in the program is the verdict serhiy rudenko from monday to thursday at 1:00 p.m. repeat at 9:30 p.m. february 24, the date that changed us, the date that changed the world and now. what interests us the most is our victory, when we defeat the enemy, how to predict the course of the war, saturday political club program returns to the espresso airwaves to help

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to the russian invaders, the russians continue to attack peaceful cities of ukraine, destroying civilian infrastructure and houses, at the same time last day , the armed forces of ukraine destroyed six tanks, eight armored combat vehicles, three artillery systems and one drone. the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine reports the largest losses the enemy suffered in the bakhmut and donetsk directions with the beginning of the already great war, the russians have already lost 41,350 people in ukraine 1,774 tanks 4,022 armored vehicles 939 artillery systems 259 rocket launchers 118 air defense systems 223 airplanes 191 helicopters 1922 units of automotive equipment 15 ships

boats 174 cruise missiles 740 drones 83 units of special equipment today we will talk about ukraine and education rather about the world and ukraine dusted the whole world kabayeva came under the sanctions of the united states of america and the russian federation threatens the americans, today we are talking about it with my guest, he is a politician-diplomat minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019 pavlo klimkin mr. pavla good day good health to you thank you for participating in our program i congratulate everyone i congratulate mr. serhiy i congratulate verdik i congratulate ukraine mr. pavlo let's start our conversation with the event that over the last few days literally the whole world is watching the visit of the speaker of the house of representatives of the united states of america, nancy pilosi, to taiwan, despite

china's threats and warnings, the plane flew and landed yesterday at the airport and ebay in taiwan ilya yes escorted by american fighter jets and aircraft carriers let's explain to our viewers how important this visit was for the united states of america and why it was not so well received by china let's start with china er china has a one china policy er it's not only the political class it's for all chinese people are important eh taiwan eh is by its mentality according to its cultural code of course a part of china you all know the history very well you know why taiwan today eh is a separation from eh from china well of course

the political system itself in kyiv. in china and in taiwan , they are different. in fact, taiwan has a democratic system for china, after all, gaining control over taiwan is probably one of the key fundamental goals of foreign policy and any visit, in particular, by nancy pilosi, who is in the american tabloid ranks third as the speaker of the congress, well, of course, this is not just annoying , it provokes the chinese system, but in a paradoxical way, i will say that this visit is also beneficial for china, now in the fall, the meeting of the chinese communist party will take place, it is always very important for the chinese

show that everything is calm, do you remember this uh song in baghdad everything is calm that's how it should be in china everything is calm uh but prices are rising for energy, food and uh the taiwanese topic will of course also uh distract from of others, plus the reaction of china, you can see it now, the import of fruits and vegetables from taiwan is prohibited. by the way, you can immediately draw a parallel. do you remember what russia did in response, not the yesian sanctions of the 14th year, well, actually the same thing? well, but also this is conducting exercises around taiwan and for the first time in the history of china is trying to conduct these exercises by closing the air and sea space not only in the straits and its east of taiwan, actually trying

to surround it and china accordingly, but the americans are also raising the stakes for the americans - it is not only navigation where more than a third of the garbage trade takes place in south china mori this is of course not only the blood of modern modern production - this is a microcircuit without microcircuits. now nothing actually works, but the taiwanese are currently number one for the americans, this is a very clear signal that we will defend our interests, we will defend our allies in asia and now the japanese, the koreans, the philippines . it's anyone. they can say yes, the americans are ready for it, yes, they have balls, yes, they have determination, political will, and this is a clear signal. they

did not break under chinese pressure, they were not afraid of raising the stakes . -e what eh now eh my pebbles have pulled up the ideal up, so paradoxically the profit from this situation is received by the united states and the chinese well, you understand perfectly well that the teeth that the americans showed and they you showed your teeth and very clearly, eh, you didn't show them with these visits to taiwan, but also with the murder of the leader of al- qaeda in afghanistan, alzov alzev. hey, that's why you saw these teeth very, very clearly in the kremlin. you know that in the kremlin, they don't understand anything except force and special operations. therefore, the tactics and strategy of the kremlin will also be affected by this, we will probably

talk about it today. the ministry of foreign affairs of the russian federation considered pilosi's visit to taiwan as a provocation . can stay in the party while china submerges taiwan and democracy. in principle, i understand that china wanted to change the status quo of taiwan, which has existed since 1949, and this is the main global debate that has been going on for the past six months, and especially even a year, because in parallel with the threats of the russian federation not in the direction of ukraine , there was an expectation that china could start a war for the taiwanese at the time when putin entered ukraine with a large army .

supporters of these well-known asian films about different styles of eastern recruitment, kung fu and so on, we know that yes, there is a style of the dragon stelmah, the style of the praying mantis but in china, in relation to taiwan, it is very i would like to have this kind of style . i would say to apply and take over taiwan by peaceful means, after all receiving the influence of hong kong at first and then changing the rules by which taiwan exists and lives because there are key elements of democracy in taiwan, and it must be said, there are also quite a few

supporters of unification with china, of course, for the preservation of today's taiwanese system, there is a fundamental mistrust between taiwan and directly china, so i think that the chinese still have the number one opportunity to take over peaceful taiwan. it is very difficult. what kind of politics, what kind of domestic politics will win if there are attempts to partially improve the economic economy, it will not succeed, the americans will not allow it, but nevertheless in china knows how to wage a hybrid war, from information to this fruit and vegetable war, and this is actually

just the beginning - that's why, of all the options , there is fear of the sbu, i think that the main policy of taiwan is china's. i'm sorry. this is such an oppression . er hug hug pretend but in fact it's not only about taiwan so i'm emphasizing this again er china has strategic plans and these plans er to spread its influence over the whole of asia what they consist of is to set their own rules for asia to have e-e of military patug which influenced on everyone with whom everyone should be reckoned with, have yuan, which is a grain of currency, and this, by the way, will change a lot for us. well, in the sense of business and state calculations, but also there, someone there

will already have yuan under the mattress, you with all our anecdotes about ivans of moscow, this may also one day become part of reality, therefore, in fact, taiwan is... this is only the beginning, this is china's attempt to gain influence in this asia and really compete with the west. with the united states for world leadership, but china, unlike russia, wants to compete remaining within the framework of the world system, since today the trade between the united states and the eu does not reach a trillion, well, you can only imagine these scales. well, the last russian war against us, it united the west with the eu, brought the west to completely different degrees of western solidarity i'm sorry to repeat, but this is very important and china does

n't like it very much, because they really wanted the chinese, separately from europe, there separately with the french, separately removed, do you remember the dead, i really liked going to china with all the ministers and talking for a long time to maintain some kind of human relations, to bargain something purely for german business and now china has before it a collective and coordinated solidarity measure, and china, of course, does not like this at all, and this is one of the results, which can be felt with the hands of our war with russia, as they say, that is, this war fundamental strengthened the west and this war clearly said that ukraine will be part of europe and ukraine is the west not only in the name of political declarations but now at the level of

a clear signal from the european union that ukraine has candidate status and this changes a lot for the whole world and for china as well, well obviously this will change the position of russia or at least russia expected that china would also show its full ability to compete with the united states of america and that is why sergey lavrov commenting on nancy 's visit before in taiwan, he said that it is very similar to the war in ukraine, let's listen to exactly what lavrop said.

well, by the way, when lavrov talked about the fact that they wanted to prove something to someone, i had the impression that he was not talking about the americans, but about russians are in ukraine, and is it even worth comparing the situation with this visit of pilos to taiwan and the war in ukraine? where there could potentially be a military conflict and one of these regions where it could all happen was taiwan. do you remember how, on the eve of the war, we talked about the risks, the world risks of the beginning of the third world war, and

yesterday, too, everyone was watching to see if this plane would land. in taipei, will it not be possible to say that yesterday the dots were placed who is the most important in the world and who in the world is secondary and so far there are no dots above and but i think that you will be dots further but i cannot mr. sergius not react to this passage e- well, i do n’t know how else to call them lavrov, since there are indeed certain parallels between what is happening here and what is happening around taiwan, russia, which wants to gain its influence in europe and, after ukraine, to spread it until 1997. the original text was written in papers, what are they there? if you remember, the americans were also handed over to china,

which wants to spread its sphere of influence after taiwan to the whole of asia, but here there are several such fundamental ones. ethnic from the point of view of the cultural code, taiwanese are chinese they have a common history and everything here is absolutely clear, yes, i do not want to offend anyone in any way, surely many parallel conversations can be drawn here, and so on and so on, but now to the whole world after this wars, even if someone did not want to believe in it well , now it is absolutely clear to everyone that our ukrainian mentality, our philosophy of life, our way of life, our cultural code are

fundamentally different from the russian one, and we are europeans by our history, we will be part of the west and this by the way, the most important thing is security. yes, of course we talk about membership in the eu, we talk about membership in nato, these are formal and substantive things that we have to work on, but what will happen in the coming years in the next there 20 plus years of the ps rebooting the world is the best strategy for us to become an integral part of the collective event and not just to become such a part, but to have the right and the opportunity to influence the internal rules and the politics of the way of thinking of the collective event, this one

has to be our ambition is no less. i understand that for many it sounds so ambitious that it breaks the brain, but we really do not have any other options, and when volodymyr zelenskyi says that we are the only heirs of kievan rus, i am very congratulations with two hands, this is absolutely correct, it should have been said because russia, according to its mentality, is the heir of er byzantium, and er in such a bad sense, and accordingly the hordes, this is what they do, er, their armed forces, what they do in us in ukraine, what they did after the second world war, what they did in korea. well, all the absolute livers and all the wars that

we saw. this is some kind of post-post horde mentality, and that's why when we say taiwan, it 's a completely different reality. we're not we can until the end understand all the intricacies and nuances of the national way of thinking between china and taiwan, but we definitely can. since we ukrainians understand today the mentality of the russian regime as ivanshikov and the imperial regime, which wants to return to the construction of a certain form and mix of the soviet union and the empire and to become a global player at the expense of this again, because without this, he cannot live, he cannot exist, he cannot legitimize himself, he loses legitimacy, he loses life, he loses

the meaning of his existence in general, and in this sense, what what is happening between us and russia is completely different from what is happening between china and taiwan. it is very important that we explain this to everyone in the western world as well. my experience is that not everyone understands this, they say. well, of course there are many parallels. we have sympathy for ukraine , so we should support it, or taiwan is there. the same situation. no, it is not the same situation. we from russia have a completely different, fundamentally different mentality . unions are through contact with european civilization, the future will be part of it, but russia is a

completely different reality and everyone should remember that, and i'm sorry that i'm emphasizing and repeating this once again, and let's talk about it even in the west even in the west, according to my experience, unfortunately , not everyone understands this. by the way, mr. pavlo, it must be said that there is a so-called one-china policy in the world, when diplomatic relations are established with china, they do not extend, or let's say so. do not allow other countries to develop diplomatic relations with taiwan, there are only 15 countries in the world that have recognized the independence of taiwan among these 15 countries of ukraine is not in this list because we have established diplomatic relations with china with the people's republic of china and not with the republic of china, how do you explain the fact that at the beginning of russia's war against ukraine, taiwan is actively trying to

help ukraine and provides financial support. and why is ukraine refraining from recognizing independence and ivan, why is there no taiwanese leadership in ukraine? as far as i know, the reason is the policy of one china, which is currently supported by most countries in the world, including humanitarian aid, because humanitarian aid is a very human story and of course any humanitarian aid is very important for us during this war at the level chinese companies are buying russian oil. china is buying russian natural resources in an effort to er and thus support er the ability of russia

to launch this war. of paradeism will change its strategy and will try to consistently punish us for this, first of all with russian years, but it is also possible with its own, and it will not only be trade bans, it will be cyber ​​​​vina, it will be russia's help, and it will be russia's help with weapons and many other things. do you remember that russia has already repeatedly appealed to china with a request to provide help, here we have to be wise, understanding the entire international context, and all the nuances, in the end, it is not about the fact that there are any cups, it is about going and win this war and we will do it, and

we absolutely do not need the influence of china on the side of russia here. by the way, the self-proclaimed president of belarus alexander lukashenko boasts of his good relations with the chinese. especially in the context of the institution's sanctions policy regarding russia and belarus, let's see what lukashenko says of course, in the conditions of sanctions, china may be wary of describing any steps, people are very careful, they felt cautious in this, however, it is our happiness that we shot a good attitude with of the chinese narodnoi respublika they helped us well and where and now we just have a decent gate eh new opportunities and we can easily add on the chinese direction i often

told the sitentine that you are huge if the locomotive is chinese for this for an additional car in volume belorussia is so chinese the locomotive won't even notice that something has caught on there, such a gigantic economy well, it's good that we have gotten along so well in the field of diplomacy, politics, relationships, yes, and personal relationships, i have a relationship with my family pina is sitting with him, oh, very good relationship, lukashenko has good relations with the leaders of china, with the family of the leader of china, after all, mr. pavla, and russia and belarus in the current war they are waging against us rely on the support of china. it is clear that without of china's support. neither putin nor lukashenko are capable of resisting western powers

. not to mention the united states of america, and it is clear that the position of china determines the behavior of vladimir putin in ukraine. can china change this position and in what way indicate the putin's place in the world order. i think that china and china's position do not determine putin's position. you and i will never know for sure what putin talked about. not all xi jinping are on the eve of the beijing olympics. it is unlikely that any of them will write a memoir. we won't be told but nevertheless, the chinese position this is how it affects russia this is how it affects lukashenka by the way, it's funny, so i would say it's bad to hear lukashenko, he

doesn't care if belarus doesn't notice well, well , let it be so, so that i can drive my wagon hey, he will be the conductor, i will be the conductor, the main thing will be to determine the rules in his car, that's fine, only it seems more and more that putin is fed up with this conductor and he wants to change him in this car, and there are no chinese here for putin, er, i think they will not interfere, even for lukashenka relations with china is probably one of the best security guarantees that lukashenka remains in power and he is trying very actively to play this guarantee now. china's interest in belarus was that it would be present between russia and europe like them considered in such a small place, do you remember i used to be

there for 25 years, i heard this concept in relation to ukraine, someone tried it there