what kind of ukrainian is actually denying ukrainians the right to exist and this is the biggest crime that can only be the biggest war crime that can only be this is our claim and on the other hand we see a very uh not not accordingly it seems the reaction from the side from the side from the side which it is the ukrainian authorities that are setting the tone now, reacting to this topic in the same way, because they made quite clear statements in march-april that we are talking about crimes of aggression on the part of the russian federation, that these are in their purest form crimes of aggression against ukraine and they they work very actively in the international criminal court regarding the crimes of the russian federation in ukraine , so it is still not so clear-cut, this is the position of amnesty international, this is actually one of the 10 cases of amnesty international against ukraine, when there are 10 statements against the russian federation one against us is simply well, i say, we simply

devoted much more time to this, although the world looks at all the statements of the international administration , well, thank you, for sure, to volodymyr yavorskyi, thank you for this conversation, for these explanations volodymyr yavorskyi, an expert from the center for civil liberties, was uh, live with us uh, well , then we're definitely moving on uh, tomorrow, right now, we'll talk a little about the economy, about money, uh, about the uh, economy in the conditions of war, we have two guests with us, we are scheduled to talk with yaroslav zheleznyak, people's deputy of ukraine and first deputy chairman of the committee on finance, tax and customs policy, as well as with yuriy gaidai - he is a senior economist at the center for economic strategy.

while we're actually preparing for them, i'll tell you what, i'll tell you what's going on. various interesting things, by the way, did you know that ah, no, they weren't important today, yes, but we can say this what what what what what there is a record drought in france, for example, i'm asking you very well, i'm already a guest, we won't tell you about these things, i'll tell you about important things, important things, we will discuss important things with yuri gaidai and yaroslav zheleznyak, and gentlemen, congratulations, have a good day a statement from the government that the government is preparing for mass privatization here literally in a month we have to sell it, have time to sell everything, a good idea would be ideal a year

and a half ago, it will be possible to privatize it now , how much for 3 kopecks, what do you think about it in a word, let's discuss, mr. yaroslav, i'll start with the main thing, when did you announce us where they said, let's talk about money, about the economy, dear colleagues, i am a politician to you, as a person who is in the walls of the verkhovna rada, we can say the following: every government, almost every political force, and where to go into politics in order to lead later some kind of state enterprise and from it saw our and you clearing the authorities there were such people, they all knew their names, then they were sometimes caught by law enforcement agencies, but if we think about it, then why do we

still have an enterprise in the state, ukrainian horse breeding, we heard that we grow some it is unprofitable, and every government, including this one, now this group of pavlyuk in the lane of the people comes to head this enterprise for nothing, gives or sells land or sells off some assets there, earns money, therefore, if you want certain politicians to disappear forever for our political horizon and the main thing is that people go into politics to change your life and not to make money, so first of all, first of all, we need to move away from this form of state enterprises as much as possible, we have 3,200 state enterprises, half of them are even as a deposit or the shed does not exist, these are documents, other silence, 600 exist. unfortunately, 90 of them are unprofitable. that is, you and i

pay every day for the fact that these sheds are standing, the other 10%. well, let's say profitable in quotes because there are no special people at almost all of these enterprises corporate governance sits with a friend, a brother, a matchmaker, a politician who is spending money on a tender. hmm, on profits, on salaries, on all of this, for some reason in germany, there are less than 200 under state enterprises, in other countries there are not even ten, and we still have 1,600. we only have salaries and pensions just like me in germany and we hear everything every time, that's why i'm just like a person who really unfortunately encounters these colleagues in the hall and in other cities, i assure you if someone goes to the podium or the screens begin to tell you that it is not possible to sell state property, the enterprise must make money, i am 99% likely to be a person who earns money

from these state enterprises, please say that he is stealing your money, so if we can do privatization now, i don't care, but i will tell you frankly whether it will be the highest not the highest. believe me, politicians will steal tens of times more from these enterprises, and the last one, and i'm sorry for the last one, but we have heard so much from different politicians, once again from different governments, that well, it is possible to sell large state enterprises opz odesa parapartovy plant and that now we have lost almost all of it, it is not easy because it just closed there, they stole everything that was possible, they stole the pipes there, they were already bursting , so the continuation and we are selling it for pennies, so once again do not listen to the populists the states, the fig manager, politicians steal and first of all they steal from state enterprises, that is why they must be privatized, their conditions psychologically, and to you

, the audit department, who was actually an adviser to the minister at the time, appears to be a lithuanian. yes, he said that i interviewed him and he said this, god, it seems like it was 100 years ago, but it was actually eight or seven years ago. he said a wonderful phrase. he said that if we didn't sell a state-owned enterprise in lithuania, we would sell it for one dollar to us. it didn't matter how much it would be sold for, for one dollar, and it was better than it would have been hanging on the budget for another year. yuri, you also have a word about what you think. well, but still, i want to say that well, the losses can be very large, but now selling this enterprise and who buys them in general to do now well, here we cannot talk about what we will lose here, rather, on the contrary, we really have little to add to what yaroslav said, except that it is a private business it is always

more efficient because it is guided by the motivation of income, so if er, we can transfer something now to a private business, it will definitely be better because these objects will already start to work at least somehow for the country's economy, this is what is very important for us now, if someone is now interested in buying there, i don't know, little distillery how or what kind of church premises are there? i was recently in lviv, in kryvyi rih, i saw these huge wastelands of these former cities, these huge factories that are not used. it will be very cool if someone takes it and tries to earn money and pay some taxes or even using benefits it will simply create places, we, er, in state ownership, we need to leave only those things that have greater weight, such as well, what is provided to the public is, er, services for citizens and er, such

enterprises, well, that is, where the important non-market the motivation is not how much it will earn, but what kind of services it will provide, it cannot always be controlled by the market there, but it is literally on the fingers of one hand to count such er if it was divided between private operators, it is not a fact that it was perfectly coordinated, but on the other hand, we see that private carriers were also included in the work , cooperated with local authorities and also e worked very well on the evacuation, that's why i support ruslana, we need to sell everything possible so that there is efficiency, so that we use every opportunity for the economy to restart, and in whose

hands it can all end up, has a resource. the volume of problems that state-owned enterprises create for us, half of the politicians you know join the rada in order to lead a state-owned enterprise, each government has corruption, each of them steals billions ineffective, it's bad for this money, then they bribe the voters with this money, then they bribe the judges. look at these enterprises. well, they look like. i'm sorry, it feels like they were bombed before the war started and then the same politicians because i'll take it. well, so far not to go . i remember ukrspirt. in the last convocation, how was it a problem to privatize? and why? because every one of their protégés stood on this microski and played billions there, yes, they paid something into the state budget, but they stole hundreds of times more.

then with this money, this circle of corruption was closed. and now they bought entrepreneurs and pay taxes, and this should be the case even when we talk about ukroboronprom, well, let's turn it on . and it was wonderful. the state is working badly, yes, it is possible that ukrzaliznytsia is not bad, it must have been shown during the war, but in japan for some reason the railway is the best, there are several private operators, it’s okay if they drive and somehow everything is fine and their reserved seats don't look like ours. i'm sorry for that once again. here's the story that we'll sit and wait for the best time, let us create a hair salon, let them build a factory there, let them modernize. surely someone will do it inefficiently , but it's private money that we need, the state is a bad manager politicians are bad managers,

i'm telling you once again, everyone, i'm just, well, as a person who sees it from the inside, the biggest corruption is always there, every time some gray cardinal comes who steals there at tenders, then bribes with this money other politicians and they start this vicious circle , that's why the biggest thing we can do is not even from the point of view of the economy. although it is very important, even from the point of view of anti-corruption, to launch this privatization and do as all countries have done, lithuania is an extra excellent example of the words that yaroslav says if it will be inefficient, but if it is a private, inefficient business, then these are the risks of this business. if it is not efficient in the ownership of the state, then it is from our pocket, after all, it is public debt, guaranteed public debt, and so on and so on, i know what i wanted to ask was the day before. there is a winter there that

can become a disaster, and in terms of the heating season, the first and real disaster is that we see how the government is engaged in forced resettlement of people for the first reason that there is nothing to heat, so at least they believe in places in the east and in my question is whether there is a connection between the appointment of a letterhead with a violation of the law , with a change in the special legislation, with the violation of all the rules that were built by corporate governance and what is today a huge problem, in particular in the energy industry , it also probably applies to other personnel. well , what i said about it today is now strange how such people as, for example, herman galushchenko, having an incredibly complex train and background. for example, the connections of such people as andrii derkach are now in the nsdc and steers, for example, the ministry of this

profile, which is extremely important, well, that is, is there any connection between these, let's say it is this selection of people for these positions and what happens afterwards, is it just your opinion or here politics plays a role. well, let's probably start with politics. yes, mr. yaroslav, well, look, uh, um, little remark, we don't have such a bad situation in europe, preparing for the heating season, we have much more gas. well, because we simply have internal storage for to get through the season yes, it won’t be like that, we will definitely have heat in the buildings, but we will definitely get through here, well, in donbass, here it’s more, i’m just from the city of mariupol, that’s why i can probably understand what’s happening here in pokrovsk, and my father and many relatives there are just afraid that they're going to talk about it now, if it concerns the

appointment, look, it's very related to the previous topic that we'll discuss, naftogaz, there was a corporate reform, they had a supervisory board, it was n't politicians who ran naftogaz, the largest enterprise, and that's why there was normal, he was profitable. he even brings money, and that's why every politician, every prime minister had a conflict with oil and gas, everyone from yatsenyuk and ending with groysman, a potter, they had conflicts with the supervisory board because the supervisory board the council did not do what the politicians wanted to do, then , in the government of shmigel, it is a violation of the law, they do not even change anything, it is just a violation of the law , they dismissed the entire supervisory board and appointed mr. vitrenko, and then the government began to manage the oil and gas industry when it was possible to buy it somewhere for $200. now we will buy for $2,000 naftogaz became

unprofitable, we did not agree on the issue of debt restructuring and now naftogaz already has an official technical but nevertheless default and chesny bolshe how will it happen further development of the enterprise is not clear here is a great example for you when one government starts to manage one enterprise, there is a political conflict between other people and a whirlwind because they cannot figure out which of them will be the next prime minister and they have certain nuances, let's say mutual relations and we suffer from this and i will tell you more now it is not enough that we will pay for naftogaz to buy more expensive gas for the next 15 years due to the fact that the default in naftogaz is official due to the fact that people do not communicate with each other when politicians decided to run a state-owned enterprise, a great example of how when the hands and other things like the brain are not cold have grown,

how does it happen later and you and i will each have a debt to naftogaz for the next 15 years, and he will borrow, we will pay 3-4 times more because the interest will be more because naftogaz is now driving us with you, shmigel will definitely go, yura vitrenko will go. and you and i, as taxpayers, will pay for that once again, colleagues and 100%, if you turn on the speech now and some politicians there from the podium, they will tell you that the strategic enterprise naftogaz cannot be sold, you cannot give up foreigners well, here's an example: our ukrainian politicians spent a year leading the company, one of the most taxpayers, to the point that it is now actually a warehouse and is unprofitable. we add billions of our money to the budget. this is a great example of

how it happens. it is important not in order to satisfy the imf, international partners , in order for state-owned enterprises to be managed by intelligent people without, let's say, political preferences like let's give everyone a cheap cheap gas at the expense of the state budget, that's all about it, unfortunately well, until we understand it, as long as we have them, oleksiy, the desire of some politicians to spill under state enterprises , as long as we have state enterprises, unfortunately, we will have this situation, yuri, what do you want, it is possible to add to our future heating e-e in the epic. may god grant us all to live to see it. just to emphasize once again that corporate governance at state-owned enterprises is its main task - to try to make the state-owned enterprise worked as a private business, that is, they were guided by the interests of profit and efficiency, when this system breaks down , accordingly, we often have consequences then, or

if a crony manager is in charge and everything is fine, there are no political conflicts, it will work, and other times - it will not work, the lottery therefore well, that's it i really know that from the point of view of energy, there are also gas reserves, and especially from the point of view of the reserve, which is strong, which is in ukrenergo and generating infrastructure, we do not have such a catastrophic situation here. i agree with yaroslav the main problem is actually immediate, then we literally have two minutes left, yes, maybe in the end. how would you comment on this initiative with a special tax on imports? to finance this budget deficit every month , there are expenses of 130 billion hryvnias only for the army

, and everything else is 90 billion hryvnias, the maximum we need to collect through taxes is external aid, which fortunately is at the end of june and in july came in good amounts and it was necessary to print a little additional money, but first of all, it cannot be directed to finance the army. and secondly, we are not sure how much further. everything will be as stable as it is. now the negotiations with the imf will proceed. in order to attract further financing and therefore well, i think that this is even now already in view of the fact that the balance of payments is improving, so because the exchange rate has already been raised, these benefits have been returned, uh, the issue here is not even about the balance of payments, because the government wants to find at least another 400,500 million dollars, which in this case can be collected in the budget. that is, this is an invented solution. i honestly

do not see any better alternatives, that is, we do not have good ones. well, okay, maybe there is a better alternative , for example, higher tariffs for the same i don't know her nervousness, well, very briefly, mr. yaroslav, literally up to a minute at most. if you have it and want to react, i will honestly tell you that it is some kind of state-level schizophrenia, but i understand - it was a proposal of the national bank and they were justified. let's just look at it from the state's point of view . at first, the state carried out critical imports, then added 90% of goods, then the government came to speak. let's cancel all import benefits, including cars. they canceled the 40 billion budget lost because of the stupid decisions of those people with the cabinet, because certain people are to blame. because we lost more than 40 billion eu in the budget, then, thank god, the verkhovna rada returned the regulation, now we want to tax imports because you decided that we have a

lot of imports. critical import in general 100%. well, that is, it 's called sausage no, well, once again, i'm right, you're either against or we introduce benefits. then we introduce, well , we can't change our position every 2 months . that's what i don't like most about the current regulation. thank you, thank you for your thoughts. yaroslav zheleznyak, people's deputy of ukraine and the first deputy chairman of the committee on finance, tax and customs policy, as well as yury gaidai , senior economist of the center for economic strategy , were with us, and we are adding lilies to our conversation hrynevych is the vice-rector of kyiv university named after borys hrinchenko and the minister of education and science of ukraine in 2016 and 2019, mrs. liliya

. gadgets, as it was during the times of the real problem of the introductory campaign, if possible, to stay often. i think that september 1 will be tense because everyone who will send their children to study offline, and for now the ministry is calling for this, so that at least relatively safe regions to do this training offline, everyone is very worried about their children and for now it is necessary to confirm that this preparation is for september 1. of course, it is going and there are a lot of different reports, like us , the number of shouts is increasing, but it all looks very uncertain because, uh, hmm shelters can be seen of a completely different quality of provision of the premises, and therefore, it remains a problem for the time being, if in ukraine they say that there are 30%

of shelters in educational institutions, it is in schools that are really equipped as they should be in general, the question is what are we preparing for? it seems to me that not enough is being done now in order to still raise the quality of the expected distance online education. the fact is that for two years almost our children have been studying remotely due to the covid pandemic. and of course, no one wanted would like to study for the third year remotely, and especially with such quality and with such different access to education that was the previous two years, because there is a large part of children who have incredible gaps in education and did not have access to distance education education, so at the moment, we should pay a lot of attention to this, because even if some of the children go to school, and this especially

applies to junior teachers of junior high school students, those kids, especially in the first and second grades, who definitely need this contact with there will be a situation when everyone will study remotely, especially when it gets cold and it will become a new challenge again, we are all expecting it, and also children of the basic high school will study online. and this is the quality of online education the possibility of children getting gadgets, especially in villages, towns, district e-e towns, because there are families that do not have a tablet for each child in order to ensure normal distance learning, so we also need to work on this and not be in euphoria that we will be able to teach everyone from september 1 children in apprenticeship because it

will be dangerous, it will be stressful and it can become a reality only in a small part of the population centers of ukraine to you as to the former minister, eh, look, we are watching there are a lot of complaints about the process of passing this national cartoon subject test, they say that it is too easy, they say that the children who passed the first were in worse situations because they are the same and everyone already knows the answers that can be written off, there are a lot of assertions that this is what is happening there are certain i also that in history that there are, for example, many questions somewhere some methods and plans until the 14th year before the revolution of dignity found themselves in this in this test and there and there you can even find the great patriotic war somewhere, somewhere, well, the elephant is very many complaints is it still the best that could be

done during this time? that it is actually failed less often and we now receive a lot of applicants with an incomprehensible level of knowledge, so for higher e-e it was woven again well, of course, this is a big problem related to the content of the tests themselves, because during the war such mistakes were made if they really were, i am sure that this will be a separate question for those who took these tests, but i want to tell you that this decision to conduct the test is still correct because uh we could to slip and to that, and at first there was such a desire to cancel any external testing at all that it is not ideal, to put it mildly, well, imagine if during the testing, the children have already seen the entire test, and here anxiety also occurs and they, for example, for an hour or a half they go to the basement, respectively, leaving their

test, but already knowing these tasks in advance, and then others who perform these tasks and do not have this one-hour break to think about how to perform these tasks. well, you understand what this is uneven conditions, therefore, to say that this is an ideal and correct test, since an external independent evaluation was carried out in our country, it is not possible, but the answer is actually if the applied results of this e-e test can be given by the statistics of the ukrainian center for the evaluation of the quality of education. how is the curve of the distribution of results distributed ? some part of those who scored the worst, those who scored the best , yes, 200 from 190 to 200 points and this is the middle, so it must be said that according to the information of the ukrainian center for evaluation of the quality of education despite all

these obstacles, this curve is in such a state that these results are, er, such that can be recognized and that divide the children, because despite the fact that the text turned out to be easier, at the same time, there are also those children who wrote it worse, and er, that's why he has a certain discriminating ability, but all the errors of this test, and in particular, especially in the content, must be analyzed and taken into account. finally, we have two minutes left. information appeared that bulgakov's gogol and petrov remain in the school curriculum because they are somehow related to ukraine, what do you think about this, well, look , we have only two options, the first option is to throw out absolutely everything that would have anything to do with russia of school programs, eh, this is also an option, and on

this nerve of war of course, what i would like to apply it, but when we are talking about individual works and if we are talking about bulgakov’s heart of a dog, which shows all the rottenness of the znu of these false values ​​and is full of ignoring the needs of man and what russia has, then it is possible to study such the work is also useful for children, but there is no time for discussion it seems to me that children cannot be given taras bulba without special training, and in that version that gogol was also imposed at one time with the fact that at the end of the fraternal union andrii wanted to be a traitor and so on. next time, next time , exactly to those