history at any cost and negotiations for the sake of negotiations is also a sufficiently correct step in order to solve this angle, unfortunately, not one of the most modern popes of our time and these ends on the first in a significant conflict simply showed that his pacifism through his moderate understanding the conflict is very far from joy. thank you, mr. oleksandr oleksandr krayev, expert of the council of foreign policy, ukrainian prisma , was in touch with us. thank you, and right now , rostyslav pavlenko is joining us. deputy of ukraine, ex-director of the national institute of strategic studies in 18-19, congratulations, mr. rostislav, good evening, let's continue this topic with the pope, because we've been waiting all the time, let's say the same moral thing, so that the pope will come to ukraine, now they say that he should go to kazakhstan and meet with kazakhstan ok , but there is a meeting with the patriarch of moscow. i generally

hoped that this meeting would not take place in principle, but it is actually being prepared for meetings on september 13, if i am not mistaken, why are you do you understand the pope's logic? and what's more, he says that he can then go to ukraine. maybe there, if this visit is agreed upon, and then the story is really quite strange, the contexts are that he first wants to agree on something with the moscow patriarch and then discuss something here in it seems that today a statement was made to ukraine in which he supports this initiative to export grain from ukraine and sets an example because they say that it is possible to negotiate and it will have results. in this spirit, they say, it is necessary to end all conflicts, but unfortunately it will not be possible to end the russian-ukrainian war in this way, if only because for the russians it is a completely different matter, for the russians it is about the non-existence of ukraine, and those who are in the

papal circle are talking here, the esteemed expert is talking about excessive specificity a-a i think it is definitely possible the influence of the environment that believes that just such a note could help simple st. peter to strengthen his role in e-e in peacekeeping in the world, but we see that because of the position of the russian federation, this approach does not work , but instead the footage you are showing now to our viewers, when the pope of rome holds the ukrainian flag already mediating the struggle of ukraine - this would be much more support, because the main thing for the russians is to know that their blackmail and their approach to the world do not work and that they will not get results in any way if they continue their aggression the capital of

kazakhstan, the head of the catholic church talked with metropolitan antony the other day with warrior e gundyaev information of the department of external church relations of the moscow patriarchate, and the new head, because the previous one tried somehow behave well, more or less decent, more or less, he was simply kicked out, kicked out even from russia. he appears now in hungary, in hungary, yes. well, it's very interesting. that is, the dialogue is constantly happening . was discussed at this meeting, the department briefly noted that numerous issues were raised that are on the agenda of orthodox-catholic relations and political processes that are taking place all over the world, what kind of dialogue is this from the russian church to the papal throne what can it be about? well, here they are really talking

about the orthodox catholic dialogue, but it would be correct to call it the russian catholic dialogue because there is a truly orthodox catholic dialogue that has been going on since the 70s of the last century and which concerns economic issues of rights the reunification of christianity of all those canonical witnesses of any other motives that would allow to close the great rift that happened in 1954 and everyone understands that this is not a close path, but the main thing is that both sides have the will to do so, but instead talks with the russian church this is not about unification, this is not about unity, and it is not about love for christ, it is a question about certain political moments and the possibility for russia to get out of that environment of isolation into which

putin's politics is driving the country, and we remember how the catholic world reacted very sharply , including in the catholic world, to the hawaiian meeting between the pope of rome and the patriarch of moscow, after that contacts were interrupted and did not continue for a long time, and i am certain that i am so worried here is the situation with the fact that the pontiff sees it possible for himself to meet with the patriarch of moscow now, despite the fact that he himself says that the patriarch of moscow should not be an altar boy for putin there, but at the same time, he is ready to meet with him and talk, you said that i am still surprised, mr. rostislavovych, i remember that in the days when the macedonian orthodox church was not part of world orthodoxy. it was a long time, several decades in a row, before the serbian orthodox church announced its autocephaly and not acknowledged that the vatican maintained a dialogue with the macedonian orthodox church, i myself remember these photos of

nikita dide were published in the media about the meeting of the highest representatives of the vatican with the hierarchs of the macedonian orthodox church, well, that is, then the vatican wanted to show the macedonian church well, orthodoxy does not accept you but we consider ourselves to be christians. you and i are holding a dialogue with you. because we share common values ​​in this situation, it is surprising that , with all the desire for an economic dialogue, the vatican does not hold a dialogue with the orthodox church of ukraine. it would be more obvious right now if the pope met with metropolitan epiphanius at least than to meet with this former priest gondaya, well, absolutely correct. especially since we see that there are already four churches from the orthodox of this local constellation churches have recognized the orthodox church of ukraine, and i think that to the extent that the russian aggression against ukraine will fail, this process will be updated and continued, and therefore the vatican

will have to make a decision here and take really decisive steps, but so far we do not see and i think that quite wide circles within the papal curia rely too much on such a traditional reading of politics when a large number of tanks and battalions weigh, although traditionally the power of the prussian throne was completely different in moral influence and in a certain setting of a very high standard, and remember when stalin shouted how much the pope was deposing and he found someone there to explain that the power of the pope is completely different, but now we see that in fact the vatican is somewhere self-defeating due to such influence on the situation in the world well, it is strange, this is a question about the pope as a person or about the problem of the institution that at the moment when such crisis phenomena began. well, this is ukraine , taiwan, uh, kosovo, kosovo

karaban. the vatican as such a moral er moral factor and this is absolutely logical because divisions are divisions, but the role of the vatican among the faithful has never er been underestimated by people who are aware of how the modern world looks in general pope john paul ii by the way of a similar situation was the moral leader of the world then, too, there were crisis events, remember the soviet union was falling apart , there were various problems with wars, the war in afghanistan, a lot of things were too much for that falsification and that is why the pope turned out to be a moral leader because he was not afraid to talk about it and was not afraid to take a leadership position and was not afraid to call black-black-white absolutely accurately well, even more so, i think that here the situation was most accurately characterized by the head of the ukrainian

greek-catholics and who surely can and in the right to comment on this situation when the pope also recognized it as a rather strange position and do you remember when easter was celebrated regarding the symbolism surrounding this procession and some joint actions of the archetypes of ukraine and russia and even more so the current events that show that at least we see self-removal the vatican from e is very important strategically, morally , whatever for the future of the whole world, i would like to talk a little about sanctions, and the orthodox church of ukraine appealed to the ecumenical patriarch bartholomew and the heads of other local churches regarding bringing the russian patriarch kirill gundyaev to canonical responsibility and depriving him of the patriarchal throne lithuania banned kirill from entering the country because of his support for the russian invasion of ukraine well, the verkhovna rada called on the nsdc to impose sanctions on his

followers who bless the war of aggression and sow hatred e- eh and eh now and are promoting this war today why let's try to understand why sanctions against cyril are important how they can act how they can strike at putin's to the vice-chancellor for spiritual affairs, and how does the state of affairs look, by the way, with the initiative of some people's deputies to ban the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, very important issues . and thank you very much that just from the great one, all these manifestations and the reaction of both the world and ukraine, therefore i will actually start with ukraine, verkhovna rada the council of ukraine has had its say by calling on the national security council to impose sanctions on naguyeva and his henchmen . this is not just some political gesture, it is an existing legal procedure for the council of national security met and already made

an executive decision coordinating the activities of all security agencies for this, so we are very much waiting for these steps to be taken, it's a bit strange, god , the pause has already dragged on, well, i'll say diplomatically , several weeks have passed since the verkhovna rada made its move did, and we are waiting for the decision of the executive power. they are no longer the moscow patriarchate, that they are a completely separate church, but unfortunately, in the form of their official rules, they have not yet made public, they further write that their independence is laid out in the letter of patriarch oleksii ii of the moscow patriarch, which speaks of the unity of this church with the moscow patriarchate, that's why researchers and practitioners, unfortunately, speak the truth when they talk about

the fact that this is a certain smoke screen, and therefore a very fundamental question arises as to how the ukrainian state will react to specific cases of collaboration it is very widely known in the mass media about cooperation with the enemy and unfortunately, we see only very few cases where at least criminal proceedings have been initiated, if they do not say that someone should be held responsible in general well, at least i am not aware of them, that's why we continue to convince our colleagues that this is exactly the case when what is called soft security is absolutely no less important than hard security, it is definitely no less important than tanks and no less important than propaganda because it affects my hearts and there is no way to feel so unpunished those

who allow themselves to cooperate with the occupier and by deceiving ukrainians to sow a schedule between them and there is something else their side of the coin is what happens to those priests who remain devoted to their duty and who are in the occupied territories, we have been hearing for 8 years in a row about what is happening to a ukrainian priest in the crimea. where have you been all these eight years? we have watched the priests in crimea and donbas being destroyed protestant priests in the donbass and in general mass repressions for the destroyed orthodox church of ukraine in crimea. and by the way, i want to say that just on august 5, pope francis made a decision that the priest from the mukachevo diocese, father peter pavel oros, will be declared blessed. this priest was killed. on august 27, 1953, the bolsheviks came with a gun in the behriv district of transcarpathia, they simply killed him because he wanted to continue to be

a greek catholic priest, the policeman arrested him and took him in the direction of some alleged for detention and simply killed on the way, this is a common story of such a person who gave his life for his religious ideals. i am curious that on the other hand, the pope praised such a decision, but they do not notice what is happening to priests who really remain faithful to their duties in the occupied territories of ukraine perhaps, by the way , it should have been discussed with kirill, i don't think they will talk to kirill, especially since kirill, even if the pope of rome breaks down, says and they are already ukrainian, because we remember that the first what did they do after this council in may, they declared those territories to be theirs, they are completely dispelling the house curtain that it is the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow

patriarchate, or as they said about the fact that it is now just the russian orthodox church, that's why they say they are free to dispose there as they see fit and resolve this issue. this issue will be possible after the de-occupation of those territories. well, it is strange that the pope does not see a connection here between what happened in the middle of the 20th century and what what is happening in ukraine today, the prime minister of estonia stated today that one of the reasons for the war in ukraine is the impunity for the crimes of communism, this is the best quote for our conversation . happened with diplomatic passports in the parliament, the ministry of foreign affairs canceled the diplomatic passports of 220 and

five people's deputies who did not hand them in after official business trips, among them the first vice-speaker of the verkhovna rada, kornienko, vice-speaker kondratyuk, the head the servant of the people fraction, where is aragami, the head of the party, the servant of the people, olena shulyak? well, there are a huge number of other representatives of the faction, including from the eu, and so on. explain what the meaning of this decision was, because according to our data, among those who were deprived of diplomatic passport there are people's deputies who have not traveled abroad at all since february 24 and did not plan to leave. why such measures , what is their meaning? well, to me, they seem to be just a kind of pr, and they are quite soviet or post-soviet in nature, when it was accepted and popular to this day to honor all those deputies and officials there for some alleged privileges there and for some reason he wanted to make such a gesture to please the citizens. to be honest,

after such gestures he always begins to follow the news very carefully. what must be happening now that they are being distracted from our attention to that, so we will say straight-up empty things because, for some reason, right now, do they want to lead the disciples to the plow of the people, because there is the lion's share of those who took their passports from there, or is it again they want to show that we have one irredeemable president, and all the others need to be built from time to time. as they say , it is quite difficult to provide a logical explanation for this. thank you , mr. rostyslav, to the national institute of strategic studies, vitaliy was our guest , and more at the end of our conversation, we can cite some interesting statistics about church processes. let us remind you that this week the results of a survey of places appeared that 72% of

ukrainians consider themselves orthodox. 54% of the respondents identify themselves with the orthodox church of ukraine and only four are the uoc of the moscow patriarchate. for this, it is important to understand in these figures how many people actually visit the churches and how many of these people who actually visit the churches actually visit the churches of the ukrainian orthodox church, which uoc mp, which in principle is not calls itself the uoc mp, but this is also such a complex story that has been discussed for a long time and we still do not really understand what has happened theologically and legally during these months from this church, of course if theological specialists do not understand it, how is it possible to understand the parishioners when the priests can not tell themselves what happened after the arrest, and nevertheless, statistics are very important for us, especially if we talk about the number of ukrainians who clearly identify it without the orthodox church, what do we have in connection with the next guest of our air,

serhiy pavlyuk honored figure in the art of ukraine, chief director of the kherson regional academic music and drama theater named after kulish. the silent terror-chronicles of hell, which will be presented on our channel today at 21:30, is a film about the temporary occupation of kherson, and serhiy pavlyuk is one with the hero from the heroes and co-creators of this film, because mr. serhiy was during the occupation in kherson and he was able to leave there happily and today he works at the khmer theater together with his theater in the territories controlled by ukraine congratulations glory to ukraine to the heroes glory to the heroes slavyk let's start with your story, what was your life like during the occupation of your theater and how

i managed to leave the temporarily occupied territory. i think that most ukrainians now have much scarier stories and it's hard to say good and bad in general. like all ukrainians, i woke up on the morning of the 24th to a call from my wife that the war had started and before that i had a release the premiere in the kherson theater, and the premiere took place on the 23rd, and there was supposed to be another performance on the 24-25th, the continuation of the premiere, but it never happened, well, i hope that soon there will be a victory and i will return to our theater and will continue to work ot in general, i tried during the occupation for two months, the municipal guard was a little bit, then the theater was no longer working there, people and families of the kherson theater

family were hiding in the basement, so it was difficult in general . it was not heard during the war, peaceful rallies, but they were. well, the people of kherson really showed themselves that kherson is ukraine and i have an integral part of it, but during that place when it became very dangerous for my family, i still have p' seven children a i had to take them out and you drive yourself and here i will tell you that unlike my godmother who tried to leave 6 times and still managed to leave with her daughter, we were already in mykolaiv in almost 5 hours because there was such a terrible rain e- during the trip to mykolaiv itself, we were accompanied by rain, and if you remember, there are pictures in your head like a movie you watch constantly, enough

every day, in principle, i remember how we left, there are the experiences themselves and how the children experienced, but i walk under god. someone sees me all the time take care of everything he is fine, he has a family, everything is fine, we have moved out now, we live with friends of the kapranov brothers, who accepted all our family, that is, in general, this is what the theater's activities are focused on now, and uh, do you give performances, which exactly, where, tell me a little about this choice , why it is very difficult, everything is the majority corpses remained in kherson itself, you know, collaborators appeared there, who is now allegedly trying to open the occupier, his occupation authorities even involved the camp of such a well-known russian hector, someone originally from the kherson region. and now it is allegedly there a play is being prepared with two or three of our ex-actors

, you can say it like that, but in general, the question is that a lot of kherson-kherson theatergoers just wo n’t find it for cooperation. to collect so it is with them to buy something er or somewhere else in kyiv, we are now asking for a theater that would accept us and start doing some project there, in general, now the theater is not working mariupol theater has opened in uzhhorod as far as i remember, there have already been premieres yes yes well , again, not all of the two-trojectors from mariupol were there . in general, it’s great, on the example of the poltava theater, when mine also called me two months later,

they offered me a production of the mother of pearls, and i almost bought them, but the theater sent me on vacation . satisfied that in rehearsals were going on in the theater, so they tried in every possible way to ban these rehearsals or, again, the honor of repeating what happened with the mariupol theater, that is, somewhere like that, because as far as i remember, at that theater festival that i always held it in ternopil and in kherson, and i apologize for this in the summer , he took place at several theaters , and in lviv, we were on my father’s side. i was so old. i still managed to do it. when he left, he also had his vicissitudes with the stars, and if you heard him, he was kidnapped, interrogated, and he also had to be forced to to leave kherson, but he came to lviv and there he began to organize melpomena tavria. as a goal from the kherson region, the performances took place, theaters were involved, and the online theater was involved because they

staged performances under the auspices of melpomena, the voice of tavria, and it was international. festival because once again in portugal they played from a play and in georgia they played from a play in turkey they played from a play under the auspices of melpomene tavria and what do you think now the so-called russian theater actors will come to help to develop the kherson theater, someone from the kherson theater i think it was just such a moment with harmash, it is very interesting that he would have come, everything about his mother , his parents stayed in kherson, that's all, i hope that he has already died there because of serious health problems, that is, he can be seen simply because i had to communicate with harmash and allegedly this service that he should come to kherson oblast and raise the ukrainian er, so to speak, the theater has been

rebuilt in kherson oblast. er, we have serious problems with this, because during the theater, theaters almost do not work during the war, so the russians put a lot of emphasis on this. they are still trying to start a theater, you see, and they had a desire to have the book open the theater , er, they tried to involve me before the opening of the theater. they said that the theater should work. look, in leningrad, the time of the blockade, the theater also works , why doesn't it work, that's what happened. i'll just say that this year, this year's tavria memorial festival showed a unique unity of ukrainian theaters and artists in different corners of our country, in particular, the kyiv theater of the ukrainian tradition, the mirror of my father volodymyr petrynyuk, joined this festival with the play mavka based on the work of lesya ukrainka forest

song this is important theatrical theatrical after all, at that time the program was very big, well, in tavria, and it greatly supported the khersonians and the theatrical person is still really such a huge problem with the people who stayed in kherson, they don't have enough money for living there, that's what kherson is afraid of... they forgot to mention it well, consider that after all, creative people like me a little, well, it’s very difficult to say something. they are very worried about us being something and they don’t think about them, they don’t remember me. there were such actions to show that kherson is ukraine and he will not forget about kherson, and so that kherson will hear the voice of the kherson region, there is an opportunity to mention kherson - it says that you are kherson - this is ukraine, people need it. and

many of your friends, acquaintances, artists remain in the occupation, relatives who were tortured on the sidewalk for what they ukrainians, for their position, know that in a quiet terror is happening in kherson, which will be discussed today in a very poignant film on espresso chronicles of hell about the temporary occupation of kherson, fortunately most of the active participants of the rallies knew how to leave even there, several people shot the film , but they did it directly, eh. that is, i didn’t know who else was among the participants. and she also starred in a mental film well, in general, now this kind of terror is not so active because, uh, they are the main mass of people, they are active. i understand that this is how they removed us in the

main. so people are sitting at home, people do not have enough to calmly go outside and it is very difficult, that is everyone for whom they have found that they have already found the paintings, and others you can just sit in the houses and be afraid. what kind of people will come, they have remained such an active ukrainian position . they have remained, well, will it be for a long time? they have already started doing it in the occupied territories. so, it is more profitable. i understood it. because kherson gives them less, and they already felt it in buch, in irpen, they destroyed mariupol and kherson. for them, this is a poster, it is necessary to understand that now the sun is here, we saved the city kherson is fine here, now people will live here, but here we will build new roads, as they already said, if we have to on their broadcasts, that's why, in principle, they did it to uh why

quiet terror. when it will be like that, we understand the aggression , they did this in mariupoli, then for them so uh your plastic one passes and we are good, how good we are, we will grow tomatoes with you and export wheat, and this is how it works for us, and thank you mr. serhiy serhiy pavlyuk, honored artist of ukraine, the main road of the kherson regional , that is, there will be an academic study of the theater, we were with us on the air with maria gurtska, we say goodbye to you and pass the word to our colleague iryna koval , who will introduce you to the current request for you. thank you, my friend. thank you, maria, for the first 30. don't forget to turn on espresso and watch the movie silent terror the chronicles of hell about the temporary occupation of kherson region a project about current events at this time literally in a moment