that's how it actually happened. that's how disinformation works, that is, for many years, they mounted this narcotics of ukraine as a fascist state, and then the moment came when they wanted to use the results of their many years of work, so to speak, and the same thing this is exactly what is happening now with the topic of arms supply, that is, they put this idea in some important places from time to time, and then regardless of that, you mentioned at the beginning, for example, that dmytro kuleba called on the authors, er, not to draw any conclusions from this film and they even took away his report and said that they will redo it, but it really doesn't matter anymore because this film is already out and they are already using it, so they are already using it to the fullest extent and i have already seen on twitter a lot of references to this film and that

's how it works, that is, now, regardless of whether it will be remade, it already has a lot of damage, and it will work against ukraine in the future. well, look at it in this context . today we succeed in counterattacking the russians with information. well, in fact, we succeed well because ah , first of all, for the last 8 years, we know our enemy very well, we have studied him well, we know his main methods, how he works, we know the main players and during this time, we were able to develop the main directions of countermeasures, including, for example , refutation of fake information, but it is equally important to monitor this disinformation in order to understand that, in fact, here we can compare it with the collection of intelligence information about the enemy, but in the information and sphere, and again, in 8 years, we have gathered enough information

to understand not only what he is doing now, but also what the next steps will be. based on this, we perfectly understood that this will be the next phase of this war, it will consist precisely in undermining the image of ukraine as a reliable recipient of weapons, because this is the problem that russia considers as a priority , and that is why all the main resources will be thrown into the solution of this problem, we see as some important mass media and expert circles in the west and international organizations are also involved, and we see how powerfully these signals are amplified in social networks. for example, we monitor twitter and facebook, and there it is immediately noticeable how pro-russian forces are have now become more active and how actively they are working on the execution

of this order. well, let's add some more information and talk about this topic. deer herds in donetsk region, russia not only committed a mass execution of ukrainian prisoners of war, but also tried to use this crime for propaganda purposes, however, the attempt failed. the world did not believe the version of the occupiers that the armed forces allegedly themselves fired at the prison with ukrainians, so french president manuel macron said that war crimes, in particular the mass murder of ukrainian prisoners of war in an occupied deer park, have no remain impunity , and the strategic communications coordinator of the national security council of the united states of america, kirby, said at a briefing that russia was falsifying evidence about the alleged involvement of the ukrainian armed forces in the attack on the deer farm well, actually mr. yevgeny, what you were talking about is our informational

counteroffensive. it is very effective. here is the case with this fake about the deer farm. why do you think the russians failed to convince the world that the armed forces of ukraine are involved in this well, actually, it seems to me that he was just drunk and they did this act in order to actively use him in psychological operations against ukraine, because he is in this story he was in first of all, it is focused on the domestic consumer, so to speak, on our people or on the international community. i think that this is just an example of such a story that is oriented in different ways to different audiences. that is, it is such a bingo story , in general, when you can impress with one story for certain audiences in ukraine and for the russian

audience, this can be explained in their own way, including for the west, i will only name what main themes they put into this story, and this will precisely illustrate what they wanted to achieve with this, first of all, this created psychological pressure for him that this destruction of a large number of prisoners for ukrainians increased the psychological pressure , including not just prisoners, but real ukrainian heroes, and secondly, this is also to once again raise the topic of fascism, which they combine with azov is unchanged and what topic are they still trying to promote , although again now it is not so active for very many audiences. but again, if we look on twitter, there you can

find an audience for any russian peoples in including continuing to promote this fascist topic, and then they talked about the fact that it was ukraine that struck, that is, again, in order to create an internal conflict within ukrainian society, firstly, and secondly, to discredit the ukrainian armed forces, their professionalism if you didn't do it, it was n't on purpose or something on purpose that they, for example , did it on purpose, then they must have mentioned hymerson, for example, in order to show what they said yesterday in the united states provided the ukrainians with such weapons, and today they use these weapons to kill themselves, and this is precisely the moment that was very successfully sold to the russian audience, because on the one hand they say that all the hymers in ukraine have actually been destroyed, and on the other hand, when needed, they of each of the other parties, they are also trying to

use them in order to show how it doesn’t work like that, and then, too, president zelensky mentioned that even who he personally ordered gave it, that is, in fact, they are of the same story here made such a lot of layered heats, it is possible in different ways to actually combine such a combination and such stories, we have seen quite a lot of them, and again, we cannot say that well, if it is clear to us that it is a fake, it is also clear to everyone else that this is a fake for every russian e-e fake narrative is bound to have its own audience with this we need to continue working with this so and so summing up this episode e-e the main directorate of intelligence warned us that the russians will start active psychological attacks on our

the population, what are they starting such a new type of these attacks? what do you think, this case with the doe is exactly this already modified informational and psychological attack on ukrainians, absolutely. we have seen quite a lot of such attacks related to armed forces forces of ukraine in order to firstly undermine trust in them, as i have already said. and secondly, where do we implement the military themselves? by very different groups, that is, the creation of such an internal conflict is actually one of the tasks of disinformation, and heh, for this, such messages appear, stay well. we will add information now. at the time of the interview

, they were in russian infiltration camps and prisons in temporarily uncontrolled territories. this was reported by the center for strategic communications and information security of ukraine there emphasize the information that the gatherings on the territory of the camps should not use when compiling reports, because the interviews were selected under pressure from the russian security forces and, in addition, the collected materials were checked by the administration of the institutions and in some cases by employees of the fsb of russia, and the minister of defense of ukraine, oleksiy reznikov, reacted harshly on the report of the amnesty international organization that the ukrainian armed forces allegedly put the civilian population at risk, he declared that it is inadmissible to question the right of ukrainians for the protection of their lives, families and homes, and stressed that ukraine will not allow its army to be slandered, quote, any attempts, even fleetingly, to equate unprovoked russian aggression and ukrainian

self-defense, as it is done in the material of amnesty international, this is evidence of a loss of adequacy and a way to destroy its authority and i i would like to remind you that yevhen fedchenko, the director of the mogilian school of journalism , the editor-in-chief of the column portal, is now in touch with us , and volodymyr petrov, a political technologist , is also joining our conversation. can you hear us and are you on the air with us? you can already hear perfectly. yes, we can hear you too, but we can't see you yet. we hope that soon you will appear on the screen, too. and the anger caused by our press release about the tactics of the ukrainian military's conduct of hostilities is actually a quote of how the organization responded to the outrage

of ukraine. what after publication of the publication of this document emission international received 40 million matyuks to their address and i understand it was liked and they decided to make another appeal to receive another 40 matyuks 40 million sorry matyuks and of course this is not enough thus they are trying to save their face to save as an organization after of this report, we can say that the authority of darkness international is lost. well, almost completely there are some percentages left, they came to the side of evil against everything for all of us completely it is clear that russia has enough money to spend millions and tens of millions on missile attacks, to spend millions on bribing european and even some american politicians, we know this and we perfectly understand that russia has enough money to buy the

loyalty of such organizations as the red the cross or containers of international or if not loyalty, then everything is possible, everything is possible so that they close their eyes to what russia is doing, and i have already said about this report that i may even i would understand if the international media conducted such an analysis of russia and ukraine, for example, if they said, we see that russia has deployed e-weapons and military personnel 100 times on public and civilian objects, but ukraine has deployed 19 or 18 times there, but they did quite- one-sided one- sided report not taking into account the crimes of russia in principle paying attention only to ukraine and frankly speaking the quality of the speakers and the quality of those volunteers

who collected this information raise great doubts because even i paid attention to that the report in the report does not indicate that for several hours or several days there were ukrainian military or ukrainian military equipment near public objects, it says as follows: there were sightings, equipment was seen near civilian objects, yes, i'm sorry, the person who collected this information, she could see the vehicle passing by civilian objects and driving on, and at that moment they saw this vehicle next to civilian objects there, you can simply break this report into small pieces and, excuse me, tear the containers international is here to accuse directly accuse them of cooperation with russia,

yevgeny, let me remind you that yevhen fedchenko is also with us now. with this story on cs, well, there is a direct connection, because in this report and behind the documentary on cbs , the same person was standing - an expert on the capacity of international, which actually and in both cases is obviously such a thing, if only denominator which connects these two stories. so they are connected, moreover , again. they appeared, uh, quite close in time to each other, and it also suggests that uh, well, again, we are not looking for some kind of conspiracy theory here, we are just stating the fact that if two events that appear in a time interval together, they have some kind of

negative impact. we don't know if they were not coordinated with each other, but what we can immediately say is that they appeared if they were next to each other and they were supposed to reinforce each other. but they succeeded if we look at the nature of palm trees, uh, this report, then this is an example of such a typical false equivalence, as it is called, when on one side they put the victim, on the other side, they put the attacker and say, each of you has a minute now. explain what the problem is with each of you and then we will decide which of you is in charge and then say well , the truth is that somewhere in the middle, we know , that is, those are guilty and ukraine is guilty , too. again, in the 8 years of my activity in this field, i have heard such examples e millions and even now when we are refuting and fighting disinformation , they constantly tell me, well, you are fighting russian disinformation. now let's talk about ukrainian disinformation, because from their point

of view, it must be because it is just another conflict, and you have to be in the conflict two sides and each of these sides usually violates everything that they can imagine, therefore, from a moral point of view, of course, this, uh, even more raises the question, so to speak, of the nature of the legitimacy of such organizations as containers, that's why that their legitimacy was actually based on their previous activities during the cold war when they played some positive role, really trying to elevate the role of human rights in the world , including helping soviet dissidents, among other things, they received various prestigious awards for this, but there are also dubious things in their biographies pages, for example, at one time, they refused to recognize nelson mandeva as a prisoner of conscience because they said that he committed violent acts and simply the apartheid regime with

from their point of view, this is already a very big drawback for him, he can no longer be a bar for freedom , that is, here, in principle, this criterion of nelson mandela was absolutely applied to ukraine in the same way, because their country should not resist any violent actions, ukraine simply should to observe and expect that this situation will be resolved in some other, non-military way, and of course, again, this raises a very big question, why will such an organization be needed in the future, if it is not only does not protect human rights or the rights of a separate ethnic group that suffers in the conditions of a military conflict, but on the contrary, with its statement, it puts these people under new threats because this report was immediately used by russia for its propaganda purposes and if you remember you see, there was a tweet from

the russian embassy in london, which is the largest information hub in europe, one thing was emphasized about the importance of this report for russia. that's why another piece appeared. where they said. so, in fact , from this moment on, we perceive so from school and hospitals are legitimate military targets after that, because if even the authorities have already said about it, then in principle there is no moral-ethical, ethical, or er, legal conviction to consider it so, that is, in crimea, as with this documentary, er, it is already actively used for some broader propaganda purposes, and even if the authorities now ask for it and withdraw even this report, it will have absolutely no meaning, yes, volodymyr, i also wanted to ask your opinion about the cbs documentary, if you can at all

call it that, and in general. what do you think? how should ukraine react to such unfair evaluations of the emnisty and to such documentary films? i think it is necessary to react very categorically, as categorically as possible, no. at the state level to call those who cooperate with russia people who cooperate with russia eh hmm, you need to demand an investigation i will remind you that in 2014, emnisty international already made

a statement about the fact that there is a civil conflict in ukraine and that russia is not involved in this in any way. we are watching from the side of emni, you know, well, there is every reason to believe that they are not just taking money, they are simply taking bribes from russia or being financed by russia or they are simply carrying it in their suitcases with the demand to say what is what is needed and i would like to draw your attention to the fact that in the dear sir, he said that these organizations are such an organization that carries the international itself. it has already discredited itself. i completely agree. now are such times that both the international and the red cross, moreover, the catholic church, the head of which is the pope, are completely well, he ignores as much as possible he ignores as much as possible the assessment of russia's actions and

tries to pretend that it's just that two states just quarreled, that's why he doesn't see anything from the driver's side, this situation will destroy these organizations will destroy the red cross international will also destroy the catholic church of course it will also destroy the russian orthodox church fortunately and this will be a great example of an organization such organizations must disappear sooner or later there is a small, very small percentage that the international or the red cross e- it's simple , i'm sorry, i messed up such a term, but everyone understands the controversy because they tried to allegedly present a different point of view. but i think that it's not even a percentage, but some kind of one one hundredth of a percent or 1,000. and i would rather talk about this controversy, er, regarding the

documentary film that appeared, that is, how did they come across this story, why did they make this film , er, the whole world is delighted with ukraine, the whole world is delighted with what is happening there, what are the armed forces doing, or, in principle, what are the people of ukraine doing, and it was necessary to sell sell some other point of view in order to create a niche in which you can sell something, but they sold and contaminated this story as much as possible. i think that the channel will be more apologize for a long, long time for the fact that you allowed such a documentary we all know the rules of documentary we all know how such films are conducted how such investigations are conducted how such films are created we know how many european journalists were killed and robbed by the russians there is no evidence that ukrainians do not god forbid

, they did something similar, and after this channel, they make a film that is essentially based on the lebanese views of an organization that has been supporting russia for the first year, which is a broad step and very similar well, if something floats, a duck quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, then it is, well, you know, it is most likely a duck, i understand you, based on this e- if we are talking about this information attack in general, how successfully can we

repel it today? will there be such a quick final of amnesty international we will witness this in the near future. in your opinion , this is in principle. maybe i think that the capacity of international and their funding should now be investigated, that is, the funding should now be handled by western intelligence services. i believe that british intelligence should be engaged in this investigation. this is american and i am sure that they will do this, i don’t know. something tells me that this is what will happen. as for media attacks and information attacks, look at russia very it was painful in the first months, they raked in full and they did not orient themselves, in principle, they believed that they would need to carry out some work, they were informational from their side, they thought that they had prepared their electorate, after

that they decided that in ukraine they have certain resources they have certain pro-russian shows they have certain pro-russian channels on which they will be able to rely in the case of uh, in the event of success, which will not happen in a shorter time, they miscalculated, then they came to their senses, they somehow shook themselves off in 3-4 months and realized that damn it, we lost completely on the information front, here we spend a huge amount on weapons, on the military, on the needs of the occupiers, it is necessary to support, conditionally, conditionally, the diplomatic front . and of course, the information front. to information to work with information we have seen openly non-objective materials and even in such publications as the washington post.

not experts, but bloggers, uh, they got some unknown or little-known bloggers who would talk about the fact that the west and europe are getting tired of supporting ukraine, this is the maximum, this is the maximum, the russian people, russia is now doing now with us. we will now listen to the president's address of ukraine of volodymyr zelenskyi and let's return to the conversation of ukrainians these days recalling the russian war against georgia in 2008, many conversations about the prerequisites of that war, about its consequences, about how that year's refusal to provide ukraine, georgia's action plan regarding membership in nato increased the audacity of the russian leadership, but still, the war at that time has not yet become history, it has not completely receded into the past, so it is necessary to talk

so much about what was and what can be done. the challenges of that time are very relevant now and not only due to the fact that the threat of further russian aggression in this part of the caucasus still exists . bringing to justice any aggressors in 2008, 2014, 22, which began in these years, different scale and nature, but one meaning. because what happened, regional and global security mechanisms did not work. insisted for a very long time , even until february 24, if it is clear that some state

is preparing an unjust, unprovoked , illegal aggression, then the world's response to its preparation should be the same as to the aggression that happened, it is necessary not to wait for strikes and victims, but to act to prevent it from happening war after this russian war against ukraine, there is nothing to remain. there is no background, not even a frozen conflict. this is an important conclusion. ukraine must return everything that russia temporarily captured, and the aggressor state must bear the punishment for the crimes of aggression, and this is important not only for justice, only the obvious loss of the aggressor , loss everything captured by him and his international legal responsibility for aggression is a safeguard against any war, this is exactly what our diplomats, office officials, and absolutely everyone who involved in the organization of the global flight, as an economic and legal response to russian

aggression, by protecting our state, we automatically protect everyone who has already been threatened or may still be threatened by a terrorist state and, of course, the military is making the biggest contribution now. today to thank the ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners of the center air command and the south air command for the successful destruction of russian missiles that were launched in the morning from the waters of the black sea, four coiled calibers - that's dozens of saved lives of ukrainians, we managed to shoot down a part of the missiles that russian terrorists launched in ukraine during the day and launched in the evening. so, our military means are still not enough to guarantee the shooting down of all russian missiles, and we will do everything to ensure that such means of our state appeared, but even now our skill allows us to at least partially

reduce the russian terrorist threat, we are grateful to each and every one who ensures this, we actively inform the world about pro-russian nuclear blackmail the attacks on the naming of the objects of the zaporizhzhia npp are already the appropriate reactions of the international community, but it is necessary to speed up actions in response, russia will not pay attention to words and concerns, new sanctions are needed against the state and the terrorist and the entire russian nuclear industry for creating the threat of a nuclear disaster, we must not forget about chernobyl and remember remember that the zaporizhia npp is the largest in europe. the chernobyl disaster is an explosion in one reactor. the zaporizhia hpp is 6 power units. the history of our bilateral relations discussed cooperation in the un and other international organizations