to friendly uzbekistan or to friendly azerbaijan, you can rest in russia. belarus is absolutely definitely not worse. in the extreme advice, why is it not a fresh peace to travel around castles? well , that is, europeans have no obligations regarding other visas, let's say. i sincerely congratulate the humanitarian programs of european countries who grant visas to people who want to leave the russian federation, who feel in danger, who do not want to take responsibility for an aggressive policy, the service i think is absolutely wrong in principle, with from a humanitarian point of view to divide people according to their passports, i witnessed how russians took to the streets in moscow in st. petersburg in defense of the article of the constitution that promised freedom of speech and assembly near the mayakovskaya metro station on triumphal square in moscow or on anivskyi avenue, how these people were beaten as and there

were many of them, as their police were more than these people, if you became such human rights defenders as they beat young people, students and schoolchildren, this was in front of my eyes and a journalist. that's all, these people went out into the street when the majority of citizens ukrainians considered putin to be the best politician in the world, and alexander lukashenko was usually given the second place. sometimes these political figures changed their roles. the most popular was poroshenko lukashenko, and putin was in second place, and i do not think that ukrainian citizens should bear any personal responsibility for this, because if now a person who loved lukashenka or putin all her life and now the house is ransacked and she is with her children or grandchildren, it doesn't matter, she is forced to save her life. should we remember what this woman had a person's political views are not, of course, but her ukrainian passport creates her opportunity for

salvation, true. and a russian passport of a person who fought against the regime or did not accept the regime, let her be three times less than her own country, we are also not often here in most of ukraine, or a belarusian passport in people who came to the square several times only fought against lukashenka's regime creates, on the contrary, a situation of political discrimination . this is wrong. i don't think that russians should come here during the war because, as you understand, that they are citizens of the country that attacked us. but i am sure that the civilized world should provide all opportunities for citizens of the russian federation of the republic of belarus, who are opponents of the putin regime, one of the most scandalous pages in our common history, in the history of the soviet union, of which ukraine was also a part, the extradition of german anti-fascists hitler after the agreement signed by molotov and ribbentrop, which as a result

unleashed the second world war, and i do not believe that we still have this moral, this moral guilt it is wrong to twist it once. but as for the fact that we have to introduce intensive work on the cancellation of tourist visas for citizens of the russian federation , i am sure that for the delegation, which will include sergey lavrov, the minister of foreign affairs of russia, and some experts, there is an opinion that the usa can refuse granted visas, but for example, the former minister of foreign affairs of our country believes that such a possibility does not actually exist, and lavrov's visit to new york will rather be an attempt by the aggressor country to break through any the diplomatic blockade. do you think they will give lavrov a visa

for this conference? i don't really understand how the united states can deny the head of the russian delegation a visa. a person who, in principle, could not enter the united states on his own, this is a limited visa, it does not allow him to move around the country, he does not allow him to do any tourist activities there again things she only allows people to come to the general assembly to be in a certain sector of new york, and this is absolutely clear, a clear duty of the organization of the united states, even chitkevich of the united states as a country on the territory of which there are oh, as you know, you can see on the podium of the session of the organization the united nations, let's say , the leadership of the leaders of iran issued a visa even though iran is a country that is included in the american list of countries that sponsor terrorism, and the russian

federation is not on this list, and neither is cuba a country that sponsors terrorism and the russian federation is not on this list. so i think that this is not a problem for lavrov. but at the same time, i think that his arrival is also not of any great importance. well, there were exactly twenty meetings. how do you remember, well, it ended with the fact that he left her early because he was hoping for some contacts with the ministers of foreign affairs of ukraine of the group of seven, and they simply boycotted him, we boycotted to such a level that they did not come to the joint dinner that he arranged participants of this meeting, the minister of foreign affairs of indonesia, did not come out of the hall when he spoke and this happened. lavrov

was speaking in virtual mode when this tape appeared on the screen, most of the participants of this meeting left the hall at the session of the un general assembly, the same will happen, a huge number of countries will order their employees to leave hall of the un general assembly as soon as lavrov appears on the podium and some countries that can be considered friendly to the russian federation simply at this moment will also be absent. well, because there they have a stomach ache, something happened, an allergy , the wife called, our delegation did not come. i think that lavrov one should not expect that he will speak in a crowded hall, this must also be understood if he comes, you said about the g20 and there was interesting news, and literally today , the white house announced that zelensky will have to join the will have the opportunity to

at least join the g20 meeting that will take place next year if vladimir putin and in november of this year. that the president of the russian federation vladimir putin and the president of the people's republic of china xi jinping will attend the meeting of the 20 in person together with this before visiting moscow and inviting the president of russia vladimir putin or he himself was a participant in kyiv. as you remember, he met with president zelenskyi and invited him to visit the twenty presidents of indonesia, just as the hosts of this meeting have the full prerogative to invite their heads of state who are not members of the group of 20, and he took advantage by the way, this is also a demonstration of indonesian neutrality that we do not interfere in the war, but we see that we want to be

neutral, we will not boycott ukraine in this situation, the position of the white house is absolutely for i understand what the president of the united states and the leaders of ukraine's allies in this war want. that president zelenskyi came to the island of bali and spoke to the leaders of the group of 20 there with the justification of the ukrainian vision of what is happening. that president putin did not have the opportunity to single-handedly state the russian position on what happened in the aggression against ukraine, and it is absolutely obvious, sir, that once again president putin at this meeting of the 20th will actually be isolated by the leaders of countries of civilized education who may not wish to maintain contacts with him or maintain such contacts with him during which they will clearly demand from him to stop aggression against ukraine. president zelensky can not only be a member of the group of 20, but also meet with the club of leaders of countries that support ukraine and which will be not only for everyone, but also because

20 of these, in addition to the group of seven, are also country leaders who support ukraine in this conflict . in addition, i believe that it is necessary to take advantage of this situation if president zelenskyi really goes to the island of bali to at least try this ambitious task for ukrainian diplomacy to prepare a bilateral meeting between the president of ukraine and the president of the people's republic of china. i do not think that president zelensky should meet with president putin on the island of bali. the position of president zelensky that there is nothing to talk about with putin until the last russian occupier either leaves the territory of ukraine or is buried in it, these are two options, but with the head of the chinese people's sports need to talk about what china's role in this war is, but to what extent it is really beneficial for china that the war continued, about the fact

that china's bet on the fact that ukraine will lose this war and russia will win is a delusional bet and that china should think about the consequences for itself if china takes the position it is taking now and russia loses this war, it will be a serious blow to china's positions if it does not distance itself too far from russia in time, and this is not just because china must continue the policy he is currently pursuing regarding the purchase of russian oil, and he must abandon it. he must abandon supporting russia economically. the president must clearly tell putin about the need to stop hostilities . the time of his meeting with the president of ukraine because there are various

ambitious tasks it is difficult because relations with china are always a matter of big politics and here. it may be necessary to mediate of a different nature from the president of the united states and the president of turkey. now china is more likely to be neutral about the war in ukraine nick. i want russia to win this war because he believes that this is a war with the west and he wants russia to put the west on both shoulders, after which china can feel absolutely free in the area of ​​the taiwan strait and believe that the united states will not have the moral strength to respond to the attempt a military solution to the taiwanese problem , that is why china really needs a complete victory for ukraine, for china, it is necessary for china to be humbled in order to do this. this is only possible with a complete victory of russia over ukraine, that is, the disappearance of ukraine from the political map of the world, that is why china is not a neutral state, china only thinks about its own interests moreover, china perfectly understands that in addition to the fact that

russia can humiliate the west of its victory, it will also exhaust itself, and this is also whose interests i am asking , because china needs a satellite that will be completely depend on him and this dependence is all the more important that it is russia that is creating a nuclear umbrella for china, the number of china's nuclear arsenals is not comparable to the number of nuclear personnel of the united states, and from that point of view, on the one hand, russia is a country with a fairly small economy, quite i would say low civilizational level, and on the other hand, this is exactly the country that can protect china, especially when china decides to go for a serious configuration of the united states, therefore, of course, these countries with authoritarian regimes are absolutely logical allies and chinese wars are not neutral, chinese wars are a state that would not want the western economy to collapse, which would not want to take any steps that would lead to sanctions on chinese companies , that is, the chinese are a cautious ally of russia, but in alliance

countries that help ukraine help us, well actually not only e- e military or humanitarian aid and the people who come to us to fight and uh, unfortunately, they are captured, unfortunately, uh, they stay in the occupied territories and ah again the dpr group the so-called people's republic is starting a so-called trial against foreigners who fought on the side of ukraine a-a in the war started by russia and er-e the last time the so-called trial was held it was about five foreigners who were captured and are being held in the occupied territories they are threatened with execution - these are citizens of sweden, great britain and croatia in particular, and the next hearing has been scheduled by this pseudo-court for october, but nevertheless there

are verdicts in other cases, and this raises a logical question of what leverage russia can have or, actually, only russia, because no civilized country recognizes pseudo-republics when these pseudo -trials take place here in the occupied territories, which, oh, no country recognizes how it is possible to influence russia in this case, when russia says to deal with the so -called dnr and neither ukraine nor other states recognize their influence on russia, it does not exist, it is necessary to understand the only lever of influence on russia. personally interested president of russia vladimir putin do you remember when a large-scale

exchange took place during the time of president zelensky, when oleg sentsova was released, then president putin needed to release from ukrainian prison this makha, who was a valued witness in the case of the malaysian plane shot down in donbas, and he was ready to give tsemakh not to appear at the hague tribunal to anyone, then when it turned out that we had no one left, he lost interest in exchanges forever and now these exchanges happen even during the war in such a humanitarian order, sick people exchange soldiers for soldiers, etc. when it comes to some iconic person, foreigners, of course, these are completely different levers of influence, which at the moment we simply do not have. i think that russia acts absolutely logically when ordered the dpr should destroy the moratorium on the death penalty. why? because they are interested in foreigners not fighting in ukraine, so that

the ukrainian army does not look like such an international legion, so that there are as few soldiers in the ukrainian armed forces as possible. they want to intimidate people of foreign origin , saying that they will be treated differently than ukrainian citizens, that there is something else that they will not be treated as prisoners of war, that russia is ready to actually violate the laws of war in relation to them, which it is doing, and that is why i am not even surprised that they are beating some of these people, i allow it, but so far. not a single death sentence has been carried out. so these elements of blackmail are, first of all, elements of blackmail of all those people who wanted to take part in military operations in the future, why not only in the war with ukraine, because i repeat, we are with us. with you, we are only on the threshold of a series of major post-soviet events, and russia may seem like it. in this way, it scares everyone for a long time, not always

the second moment. russia is blackmailing the countries of the west. we have your citizens in our hands. you can do, do you remember the story of the former prime minister of israel next to the name and the mob when russia detained an israeli citizen who was in transit and flew through the sheremetyevo airport, they found some amount of narcotics in her it seems to me that the number is allowed in israel, but not allowed in russia. here, even from her point of view, she did not commit any criminal offense because she knew the laws of her country. i am not saying why it was the right thing to do. you and i are transporting tea. well, we know that a certain amount of tea can be transferred, but the same thing, in fact, she knows how much of this substance can be transferred. it's not you, but the customs officer didn't ask you. and the russian customs officer had questions, they detained her and they actually started blackmailing the prime minister of

israel, now the situation is the same with an american citizen, as you know, who was also actually transiting through the russian federation, but since president putin has a worse relationship with president biden than, er, with the prime minister, not there this woman continues to be in prison, and the americans are trying to understand which of the characters interesting to putin they can give to him so that, on the one hand, it would allow the release of this american woman, and on the other hand, they would not violate their interests of the national security of the united states itself. because in the prisons of the united states there are people whose very activity violates the interests of the national security of the united states, and if they return to this activity, it can again cause irreparable problems , given their level of connections, qualifications of various there are opportunities, etc., etc. yes, viktor butskoi,

that this too must be absolutely clearly understood, unfortunately, we have to live with you in the real world, and when it comes to foreign citizens over by which absolutely illegal processes are organized in violation of all laws, and by the way, when it comes to the people of azov, they also prepare a trial for prisoners of war, in fact, in the process of hanging prisoners, as a rule, there is never a prisoner of war. in the camps of prisoners of war, in a normal war, simply ending hostilities does not judge them, but here there is a desire of the propaganda process to prove to themselves, if not in this world, what they are fighting with nazism, although we understand with you that it is the russian federation that has actually revived the practices of nazism and is a real nazi state on the political map of the world. well, what levers of influence these levers do not have, this must also be realized, that is,

even the countries whose citizens are actually there now cannot do anything to avoid a possible football club, offer something that will interest him, he sells death, generals, someone from important political figures, who is some kind of spy, who is in which prison, but there are few such people as a rule, they exist only in the united states of european countries, there is no such large prey. of the powers enshrined in the constitution, if it is done in

the interests of the defense of our country, more than half agree that during the war the government should hold citizens accountable for views harmful to the state, but at the same time, the survey does not address what exactly these views should be. what views are harmful to the state, also the majority believes that during the war in ukraine, the opposition should fully support the government in all matters related to security and here are the rather radical results of this survey, what are they talking about? well, first of all, i also believe that the situation of national unity is important during a war on security issues, the positions of the authorities should be consolidated, but this is a matter of good will and the position of the authorities, but with regard to the other results of this process , it has always been the case that the citizens of ukraine have always gravitated towards

the strong hand. that is why the most popular political figure in ukraine for decades was the president of belarus, oleksandr lukashenko, and later the president of russia, vladimir putin, when he turned into a strong the hand and popularity of president lukashenko and his popularity with president putin in the eyes of the majority of ukrainian citizens have always exceeded the popularity of any president of ukraine itself which was not considered a strong hand in relation to a democratic state, perhaps not during the time of yanukovych, of course. and when president putin attacked ukraine in 2014, president lukashenko finally became the idol of our fellow citizens. sixth so why should we be surprised that people who all the time said that they would like ukraine to have a president like lukashenko and ukraine to be a country like belarus and think that they are unlucky that they live

in another country why should they change for one day yes, we have a society with a huge number of its representatives living the dream of an authoritarian country. but i want to remind you that this is a society of people who are actually the descendants of those who won in the civil war in the soviet union and in the occupation war against ukraine, who lost long ago in the land lies mostly was shot during the repressions of the leninist stalinist famine post-war repressions intimidated left the country the fact that in our country in this situation 27% of people are in favor of democracy this is a guarantee that we have much a more normal state than its neighbors, that’s why it’s not necessary not to grumble and rejoice at such figures

. it seems to me that russia’s war against ukraine is also called a struggle. serves as an example of a supposed democracy or a country that gravitates towards democracy, the following results can be obtained if we have 2,058% of people who believe that strong leaders are more important, 27% want democracy, and then these people go to the elections alone they vote for a strong leader of another, they vote for democracy, this has been happening since 1991, but if 90% of the people did not want democracy, we would have russia here or belarus, and that is what these people are competing with these people who say oh we need a leader he will come and decide everything , there are many people who oppose each other, as they say. no, we need political competition. we need political parties, we need a separation of powers, we are going to

europe and these people will convince their compatriots on many issues. well, all the more so, i think that in principle, we no longer have any choice. because we are a country that today exists on artificial respiration, money is provided by democratic countries and it does not matter what our compatriots think . in general, more in general. this day has come if we want to survive, not as a state, but as a nation, the ukrainian people then we will have to agree with all democratic principles, unfortunately we will never have a strong authoritarian leader of a dictatorship, etc., i would even say so, we can have a strong authoritarian leader strong the president i will call his last name is vladimir putin, if vladimir putin wins this war, he occupies the entire territory of ukraine, they call ukrainians russian and say that these are the regions of the russian federation, then part of those people who talk about

a strong letter get it but i think that they are also a question of democracy that they here completely agree with those who want democratic rights that they do not want vladimir putin to be a strong leader, it is true. therefore, they will have to agree that they will never have a strong ukrainian leader that they are as written by taras hryhorovych shevchenko, who was a really strong leader. for the sake of the ukrainian people, will they wait for washington and righteous law, and this is much more important than any strong leader, righteous law, this should be written on the gates of ukraine in order to change its image of a chaotic anarchic entity . is already changing before our eyes , because everyone understands that a simple anarchic formation could not have armed forces that have been resisting the enemy for the sixth month, could not have a society that helps armed forces helps to survive those who are having a hard time in these times, you also

understand this, absolutely obvious evidence of self-organization in dictatorships, self-organization does not happen there, everyone is waiting for what a strong leader will say, he will say help, so we help, and he will say let them die for themselves on the streets well, let them die for us but what, he knows better by the way even these people who talk about a strong leader are interesting, they realize that a strong leader knows better than them, no ukrainians ever think that someone knows better than him he always knows better than everyone else and that is why in this country even those who want a strong leader cannot, cannot give him the full range of opportunities to decide for them, this is a moment of civilization, a moment of civilization which, for many reasons, for many reasons, inherited by a million from the grand duchy of lithuania, will deny the commonwealth of nations from these traditions, did not allow what you do not allow, well you don't allow it, they don't want it to be like that, that's why the king of poland could not be, as a rule, as

strong a leader as the tsar of moscow. of these strong leaders of these kings of the general sectors, about 60 million victims of the stalinist era, is it worth such a strong hand and an effective manager? i think that it is not worth living, and this is a very important moment. and that i am very calm about this sociology, it is actually evolving , evolving into a better one the side and the number of people who adhere to our democratic guidelines, this is up to 30% of the population, this is a critical number in order to prevent the possibility of infantilism in part of society, something here to break everything, as you can see here just optimistic, this is enough to move to europe, it is absolutely enough, because this is the election, this is the presence of the opposition, you understand, the opposition in the parliament, the opposition in public life, the free press, 30% - this is not much, believe me, as journalists

who worked in russia, they know what one or two is percentages of such people or three, you and this is called marginalization, you understand , regionalization of yourself, like-minded people, the press, political parties, and you don’t feel like a community, you feel like you are in the kitchen, and here in ukraine we always felt common these maidan is not the kitchen of the current heroic deeds of our soldiers - this is not the kitchen you understand and i assure you that this is absolutely enough to support democracy that is why let's end this conversation after all with the conviction that after the end of hostilities we we will be able to build a democratic state that will be able to restore all this ruin created for us by countries that have lived with a strong leader for 20 years

and may live for another 22 years, but i do not wish this on anyone fate as a russian who lives with this strong leader in these too long pants. thank you ulyana panasyuk discussion ulyana panasyuk vitaly portnikov today and now we give the floor to iryna koval who is already preparing to tell you about the news of the day and the news of these last hours prepared an extended news release already the espresso television service is handing over the baton to iryna koval