there will be consequences from a nuclear explosion or from an explosion at the zaporizhzhya npp, and what do you think, can it happen that nato will become a participant in the russian-ukrainian war, and russia itself will finally get a beating from the nativists? we have a statement on sunday, as you know, the leaders of the united states, great britain, france, and germany talked about this, mr. general, we again lost contact with igor romanenko, unfortunately, unfortunately, we lost contact, and i really hope that if we do not now restore contact with mr general, we will wait for another guest, oleksandr musienko. he should be in touch, and i say once again that

the leaders of these countries discussed this issue and they are determined that if russia uses, if not the tactical use of nuclear weapons, then it will use this nuclear effect, this is the second direction and parrots, i.e. the first massive strikes on ukraine, doomsday time or whatever, and the second is nuclear, and in order not to leave them with illusions about this, they have prepared an approach regarding the fact that if it happens, then canceling the fifth article of nato is still considered an action because we are probably at such a limit, uh, putin didn't believe in much, but he also got a position, first of all, for ukraine to protect its sovereignty and national values ​​of integrity, and from the side

of the countries of the west of the nato countries that have paid off around ukraine, but in this opposition to the russian federation, that's why you too. during this week, it will be clear whether he will take any action related to this . i'm moving, uh, in 20 years, he has done a lot and something else will be added to it, maybe he doesn't do it, i hope that in the near future he won't be able to do this, the pressure is very great from the countries and the determination, first of all, of ukraine and our allies well, let's hope that if western pressure doesn't stop him, sooner or later a bullet will stop him, well, that's the story of

the end of many dictators and people who start a war on such a scale. especially since a bullet is a bullet not a bullet but hmm it's a big government the activity of what will lead to political death, and possibly not only. thank you, generals, for the conversation. it was ihor romanenko, lieutenant general, deputy chief of the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine in 2006-2010, friends, we work at once on several platforms on the air of the tv channel espresso on the espresso youtube channel, also on the espresso facebook page, if you watch us live, please like, subscribe to our pages in social networks, support the espresso tv channel. oleksandr musienko, director of the center for military-legal research, oleksandr good day and good health to you. i congratulate you. good health, oleksandr. tomorrow in mariupol, the occupiers

are going to start the trial of ukrainian prisoners of war who defended the azov steel. get our prisoners if the russians hold a show of force against the azov people in mariupol, any negotiations with russia will become impossible, said the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyi let's listen to the president of the mass media, it is enough to report that in mariupol the scenery is being prepared for an absolutely liquid trial of the ukrainian defenders of our soldiers who are captives of the occupiers, so that the occupiers do not think to themselves, so that the occupiers do not plan, the reaction of our state will be completely clear. if this abomination does not

happen, the trial if our people violate all agreements of all international rules, all the scenery will be set up, there will be bullying, this will be the line behind which any negotiations are impossible, russia itself will cut off from the negotiations, there will be no more talks of our state. everything has been said. all partners of ukraine have been informed about what the terrorist state can prepare for this week. so, we saw how last week zelenskyi met with erdogan and guterres in lviv, and in particular, among other things, the president of turkey, irdagan talked about the possibility of a meeting between zelensky and putin in turkey. then erdogan, after visiting lviv and odesa, flew to putin to agree on something there and now this is a courtroom. what do you think, will it still be

the dialogue has been resumed, the diplomatic dialogue between the countries. i'm not talking between the presidents anymore, because we know the position of putin and the kremlin, that first we need to work out some kind of negotiating base, and then the president's documents just come and visas are issued. well, i think that no dialogue will be resumed anymore than that. i believe that with putin under no conditions , with er and whether the court er will not be given at all and what without er, no one will talk seriously anymore, because it seems to me more and more. no with he is not with his closest entourage, so i think that , by the way, the principles seem to me that today this is also the position of the ukrainian authorities because well, when it is said that russia should withdraw its troops to de-occupy ukrainian territories, then you can sit down

at the table. i think that russia is clear now this without armed pressure, without the fact that ukraine will press and it will hurt very much, they will not do that. therefore, this is also one of those conditions, therefore, i think that dialogue is simply impossible today, no matter how much the kremlin wants it, if they were not moaning now in russia about that that it is necessary to talk about the ceasefire and so on. it seems to me that the point of no return has been passed when there is nothing to talk about with them, so i think that this dialogue will not be resumed, by the way, post-pred of the russian federation gennady gateva of the un in geneva also believes that moscow does not see the possibility of ending the war with the help of diplomatic negotiations . he stated this in an interview with the financial times, and he says that ukraine and russia were very close to holding a dialogue in april, but as usual

does the russian federation say that these negotiations influenced the western countries, well, obviously they mean the meeting after the turkish negotiations between zelenskyi and johnson, when johnson flew to kyiv and they discussed, obviously, these proposals of the russian federation, well, that is, i understand that neither russia nor ukraine see any other way out than victory on the battlefield. for us, i think for ukraine , there can be no other scenario, because you understand when you reply. this is not a matter of politics and this it is not a question that has grown even more than a war, it is a question of the fact that russia and the current russian political regime led by putin have created a

criminal group and they aim to implement this criminal group into life and quote the ukrainian people all the rhetoric that comes from the russian side and literally last week, there was confirmation once again even from diplomats from the representative of the permanent e-e at international organizations in vienna. before that, i want to remind you that we mentioned the azov prisoners of war e-e. i want recall a post in one of the social networks on twitter of the russian embassy in britain, where they wrote that all ukrainian prisoners of war should be hanged. i am already silent about dozens of russian tv broadcasts where such deputies as zhuravlyov slandered russian propagandists and oligarchs like malafeev about the fact that there is no ukrainian people and the ukrainian people must be destroyed within the framework of 11 nazification, someone said that 2 million more should be killed, someone said that under such

conditions, under such conditions, let's say under such a background, about which things can go. language has already turned into politics and has turned into any kind of things. it already concerns the question of survival in general and under such conditions. of course, let's say sit down at the negotiating table now. it seems to me that this is counterproductive if she is ready to make concessions and withdraw troops to de-occupy the territories to compensate for the losses, which is now hard to believe, then, under other conditions, i did not see any possibilities at all, especially when the initiatives are gradually step by step but transferred to ukrainian forces and when russia has not achieved any strategic goal, after starting this war, they did not achieve any goal, they are now gradually more and more in a losing position, so there is no need to prevent them from losing finally these days, most of the leaders of the european states, well

, in particular, the baltic countries are talking about what should be limited in russians travel for tourist visas in order not to give them a schengen visa, well , at least estonia has shown this very clearly and other countries, and the minister of defense of the russian federation serhiy shoigust is also talking about it at the same time asserts that it is practically impossible to isolate russia from the world, first of all, because it is one of the largest nuclear powers, let's hear from shoigu, this is a permanent homoglast statement about the isolation of russia. what is the

biggest nuclear power? it is quite difficult to do something, in other words serhiy shoyuk says that we have nuclear weapons, the world will somehow count with us and will consider us in a different way, we do not have a lot of weapons, we have nuclear weapons and we will continue to do so blackmail the whole world and we will change the rules of existence and coexistence in this world, where do you think the limit is when the russian federation will understand that what it is doing is immoral, cynical and generally murderous in the literal sense of the word for its neighbors, or will this limit never be that is, they

they will be constantly killing everyone, shelling, threatening this with a nuclear baton and talking about the fact that well, you accept us as we are. and you know , it's quite interesting that it began to appear so actively on the platforms that its content, in particular, is this one the synchronism that was recorded after the anti-fascist congress that russia organized this propaganda action there invited some representatives unknown to anyone well, but they organized and covered the media through their resources and it caught my eye or for some reason putin did not take advantage of the opportunity once again talk about the fight against fascism and nazism, de-nazification, and so on. he completely disappeared from the media after the cotton in crimea. the only thing he recorded was a speech on the occasion of the day of the russian flag - it was broadcast the

other day in the recording and nothing else in return in the proscenium of shoigu, who looks like i would say yes, quite satisfied, apparently he is completely satisfied that in six months the russian army has not achieved noticeable successes and obviously has not achieved the goals that it sets and continues to cause losses and all this, together with the death of duhin's daughter, raises a lot of questions, which are exactly the answer to your questions. what do they consist of? do you understand? it seems to me that the cultivation of aggression, the cultivation of lies, the cultivation of hatred, which went on for years, maybe even decades, and spread in russian society, i mean the hatred of ukrainians towards other peoples, the superior neo-imperial attitude of the story that russia is what he said that he is - this is a constant suggestion that they are a great state and that's all

it is possible for them to have unwritten rules, etc., everything is apparently so blurred that these moral principles have remained in the minority somewhere. they may be present in someone, but we should put our hope on the account of the minority, if we are talking about russia, then i think about the instinct of self - preservation some of these so-called elites around putin may not like the fact that they will begin to lose power, will begin to lose assets, will begin to lose and will have to change their usual way of life, that their assets will be seized in the west they won't be able to go there, their children won't be able to study there, and many other things in general , because uh, if putin had a calculation at the beginning, he obviously convinced everyone that the west would react, no ukraine would fall in three days and we would get away with everything again and we we will all be

promoting this topic from the empire for another 20 years, then i miscalculated in everything and that is why i put more and more hope in some moral principles there and not in the idea that the idea of ​​humanism will suddenly take over among men in other cities but these instincts of self-preservation when will it just start let's say this, when firstly you will see that putin is already losing his strength he is not the kind of leader that is needed or has traditionally happened in russian history secondly when it will start to get quite painful this uh around putin's elite the special services and so on what they are used to making a lot of money, and now the current state of affairs does not suit them. this is what you can count on. and there is some morality there. unfortunately, we do not have to speak. we know that local elections are to be held in the russian federation in september. they are preparing for the elections, of course, putin talks a lot about what they want to get as

a result of these elections, and just the other day putin said that a strong rear what does a reliable democratic political system that is developing, let 's hear from putin, in order to feel confident, first of all, you need to have a script a this means that there is a reliable, developing democratic political system, and that we are the chosen ones. i will contribute to this. i have no doubt that a large burden will be placed on the employees of all levels of lies. a reliable political democratic system, well, in general, it's very well, it's kind of delusional, moreover, which is replicated all over the world, not only on russians, because well, now we see how authoritarian states are trying, to put it mildly, to bend the whole world there, china, russia, north korea, and we and iran

, that is, we see that there is no democracy, no reliable democratic political system , can this democratic reliable political system, which putin is counting on, show some unexpected results of the president of russia in september of this year, well, perhaps if the system was really democratic, reliable and free, as putin says, then it is possible and yes, and considering that there is no such system, it is not worth counting on any changes due to elections . we say that it is bad or good, it is simply the facts that in russian history it was so that practically because of the elections, there were no questions. well, it was not decided whether there was a change of power or some kind of peaceful transition to

power, one way or another, it was accompanied even though the smallest small but skirmishes but some kind of bloodshed from the smallest to the great or the terror of tsarist russia and frequent cases that were observed from the end of the 19th century, that is, it all came down to the fact that some kind of peaceful democratic transition was simply impossible and even today it seems to me that if this system let go sharply and if putin said that well, let's go vote for those political forces there for the opposition that you want, for example, although again, the majority of the opposition is not even allowed to participate in the elections they will not even appear in the ballots because there are legal or judicial restrictions imposed on them that do not allow them to do this and take part in the election process, but even if you imagine that this happened, for some reason it seems to me that the majority of people

would go and traditionally pay a fortune for those who did she think about this, there is a single russian family, communists, putin, everyone, and so on. well , that is, after all, russia is characterized by certain upheavals in history, and now, by the way, it is going through another upheaval. because putin he made so many mistakes during his reign, this will certainly lead to serious upheavals, and in russia itself, everything is leading to this, and now, then, due to these upheavals, only then can some changes begin to take place, it’s just such facts that are confirmed by historical parallels from russian history, there is another parallel that arises in our conversation, and when we talk about russia, about democracy, about the future of russia, obviously we have to say about the temporarily occupied crimea, because until literally

the beginning of august, russia was talking about what it was like a reliable aircraft carrier, as they once said, during the soviet union, we know that there were 11 military airfields and a fairly powerful force, such a military force was stationed on the crimean peninsula, and then it was part of it, or volodymyr horyskov told me when he was the minister of foreign affairs that there were so many military units, not so many weapons at the time of the distribution of the black sea fleet and all the topics of conversation, when the black sea fleet should leave the peninsula, it was not less than 7 years or we need to get everything out of there, but we see how this aircraft carrier is no longer as formidable as it used to look, we see attacks by ukrainian drones

of the ukrainian armed forces and on military facilities located on the peninsula, the military facilities of the occupiers on your hmm what is happening now in crimea, as they call cotton in social networks, this is a harbinger of the liberation of the peninsula. is this, after all, such an informational and psychological operation, a special operation with the help of drones , usually of the ukrainian armed forces, so that in the end russia has understood that there is no territory where ukrainians will not reach, including the annexed crimea. i think that there is definitely an informational psychological operation, which really consists in debunking the myths created again by russian propaganda that crimea is protected -

it is an unsinkable aircraft carrier and so on. what they spread is the first point, the second shows that russia is vulnerable well, because we have to say the next thing, we understand very well in the russian imagination in russian historical propaganda narratives, well, sevastopol which they constantly called the city of russian glory and constantly rewriting history and so on. this is probably for them, well, after sevastopol, probably only moscow and st. petersburg, this is no exaggeration. you can say vulnerability and precisely because of that. so, strikes are mandatory in occupied crimea . the command of the black sea fleet of russia in sevastopo or er and those explosions that were in dzhankoya in novofedorivka or in another near kerch

who came to live there? who was transported? who came to rest there? how do they react ? there in india or turkey. no such strikes are allowed here. well, it also has a military component because, for example, the attack on the saka airfield under novofedorivka had a military purpose , because the planes of the naval forces were destroyed. aviation of the black sea fleet of russia, attack aircraft and bombers that took off and struck, in particular, on ukrainian territory, there were also explosions and warehouses where, in principle , it was established that there were jet reactivity equipment, missiles for jet artillery, rockets and the like

, that is, they carry both military and informationally and psychologically, can this be called a prerequisite for the liberation of crimea? i think that it is so simple, not immediately and not now, because it is clear that the occupied part still needs to be liberated before that kherson oblast and zaporizhzhia oblast in the south, but these are the actions they take, of course, which create the necessary preconditions, because at first our military destroyed nearby villages that were located starting from novaya kakhovka or under melitopol, or we already know in the famous chernobaivka, and now it comes to the so-called of the far rear, from where they were imported precisely at the occupied border of christos of the kherson or zaporozhye regions. therefore, it is complex, but with a solution. we are worried about the future of our soldiers

who are at the front and civilians in general because there are predictions about how the russian federation will behave these days, we know that tomorrow is the day of the national flag of ukraine and the day after tomorrow is independence day we saw how on saturday and sunday people rejoiced in kyiv. the so-called parades of russian equipment that went to kyiv, that were burned in the kyiv region, in the chernihiv region, and this is very by the way, someone came up with a good idea. it seems to me that you this day and this year, this is very a demonstrative very correct parade and yet what to expect from the russian federation i understand that it is completely useless to predict the not quite adequate people who are the leaders of the russian federation but the

anger and the hatred that now lives in russian society that lives in the president of russia and in his environment, she impresses the whole world as you see the events unfolding over the next few days in ukraine so that our viewers understand what to prepare for and what to expect actually well, you know i think we are for these months of war, we should already be ready and understand what missile attacks are, which can increase and escalate from time to time, know where the nearest bomb shelter and shelter are, where we need to go, and when exactly we know these exacerbations and the sirens are sounding, that is, in principle, know what to do e- with suspicious persons and the like, which are also there because it seems to me that the risk

of missile strikes is increasing. well, for example, in fact, today there is literally a message from the operational command of the south that they are ready to use 30 caliber missiles the russian troops took their ships to the black sea and they have been ready for use there for 30 years, although again during these months the air force learned to shoot down more effectively and literally in the two previous days, seven calibers of russian ones that had already been fired in dnipropetrovsk region and in sometimes it's also important, it's an important decision, it's important. let 's put it this way. it's difficult to give a 100% result on downed missiles. but nevertheless, they shoot down because of what russia can prepare. so they can prepare some meanness and treachery. it seems clear, based on this, the dangers and threats of missile attacks are increasing both from the sea and from

the territory of belarus and russia, because russia has closed the airspace for these days to us, in particular, and to the pozhda nizhny region, before that they closed only the southern ones and prohibited flights, but here and now and further they went and sent additional planes to belarus, so the threats of missile attacks are increasing, and i also see that i think that the activities of permanent groups that may be planning some erasures or other actions may be increasing i think that they are warning about this. and based on the fact that they are warning about this and understand the risks and dangers that may be, the air force and all the defense and security forces are preparing to counter it. and we all just need to understand that all the same rules that existed before that about air alarms or about the vigilance that should be, it is not necessary

to forget about it again and report about suspicious persons or suspicious objects t remains for us a road as an indication for the future and after these days and we just need to believe in our the armed forces, which have repeatedly demonstrated that despite any plans of the occupiers, they are capable of effectively destroying them. with faith in the armed forces of ukraine, we will finish our conversation. thank you, mr. oleksandr , for the conversation . happy independence day. take care of yourself and your loved ones. well, friends, i will tell you that do not ignore the air warning signals, go to the bomb shelters when it is necessary, because you see the enemy is mad these days, they do not like ukrainians they don't like our independence, they don't like our flag and in general they dream that we don't have it in this world but