write to me on facebook or to this e-mail address. see you in exactly a week. welcome to the espresso channel. today we will talk about artillery, more specifically, about how the armed forces of ukraine use the best foreign samples of artillery weapons against the enemy. consider the main weapon of victory in view of the number of losses already inflicted on the aggressor and why we still need more and more artillery , we will talk about all this with our specialists my guests are serhii zgorets, i am the director of the information consulting company defense express, and my interlocutors today are oleg katkov, a military expert and editor-in-chief of the defect express agency, but he already greets you with a good

day . of the armed forces of ukraine, vyacheslav, i am glad to see you. good afternoon, and the first question to you, vyacheslav, is whether you are actually correct in the thesis that in the development and use the artillery of the nato countries from the usa on the one hand, and the soviet union and the russian federation on the other hand used completely different approaches to artillery. they made different bets on this segment of the armament . preemption and the russian federation cherliansky union e-e the strategy of such a fiery shaft to destroy everything in a row, regardless of the number of ammunition than the accuracy of the hit , are such assessments correct in d-approaches of the concept in a certain way, yes, that is, if quality over quantity prevails in nato artillery, then the soviet concept is quantity over quality, well, you

can’t say that russian artillery systems, well, at least, for example, staes and its modernized variants, they are completely archaic, but if you compare, for example, with the german panzerhaus, then of course it is artillery, well, let's say something like that of different generations, that is, it would really be fair to say that the soviet approach is the number of artillery and the number of shells per hectare of position of the enemy, and the nato approach is the greatest coefficient of effectiveness from each projectile. the most saturated with artillery compared to any other countries. so how does the aggressor act on the

territory of ukraine during the first stage of hostilities, and how does he act now? it was simply clear what numbers we were talking about, that is, and from there the balance in the military, which well allows you to estimate the number of enemy artillery as of 21 and wrote out the numbers a-a in formation e-e in general, all armed armies have a reef, that is, ground troops there, landing troops in the sea marines had self-propelled artillery units 203 units of towed artillery 2433 a-a rocket salvo fire system 1 143 - this is taken into account and excluded starting from the caliber 122 mm without taking into account mortars which are also a significant number army reef exists at the same time, uh, to understand just the size of the composition, because the composition of the system that

is in the so-called storage. these are absolutely maximum numbers, they do not correspond, let's say, to the real capabilities of the russian defense-industrial complex to put these means of destruction in the strya, but also simply to understand the size of the enemy's artillery system in warehouses, er, oriented system, self-propelled kartev systems, 4,260 artillery pieces, 12.5 thousand, this is just a huge number, and there er, just really a huge number of communities, for example, where there are 20 reserves and 3,120 of these power plants of volley fire of various calibers. that is, there are thefts, hurricanes, and first of all we will be talking about self-defenses, that is , what is the other aspect. of the soviet tactics of using

artillery, i.e. not having high-precision projectiles having quite well, perhaps to some extent the ability to create reconnaissance strike complexes is limited due to the complex arrangement management of artillery units. that is, there are certain difficulties, but they have eliminated them and compensate for them precisely with a huge number of art systems that can work. well, without such a natural limitation in shells, because the amount of ammunition that remained in the warehouses of the russian army. well, it is simply astronomical. that is, there is no such condition there that these shells may run out in the near future . it seems so to me, and therefore the only option is to really destroy the logistics and make it so that the enemy simply does not have time deliver these munitions that will fly, and we are talking about the fact that, well, in general, the messages are excellent

defense, the enemy can intensify the artillery fire in the amount of up to 60 shells per day. that is, it is simply an astronomical number that really approaches the parameters of both the first world war and the second world war in principle well, when we say that there are shells for production, where it is somewhere around half 60,000 for production, somewhere for one and a half, there are 1700 million shells, eh, 1.7 million, somewhere for a month , in fact, such a lava fire is used by the enemy vyacheslav, what are the main samples now the enemy has weapons, if we are talking about tracks, there are 152 or more. because our further conversation will precisely concern the large-caliber self-propelled howitzers that the enemy currently has in this segment, what are their main indicators in terms of the range of power of the main self-propelled gun in the russian federation now there is an s bridge, but

a significant part of the artillery divisions of motorized rifle and tank units are still armed with a more outdated 2s3 acacia cannon, that is, somewhere 50 to 50. this is if we say about the stas self-propelled artillery, it went through several stages of modernization, again, not all guns are modernized, they are guns of a new release, that is, of recent years, and there is also a towed version - this is 2a 65 mb, in addition, soviet hyacinth ears e-e b ts2a-36 and hyacinth s2s5, these guns shoot uh-uh farther than in the city of s, but for example, the self-propelled version does not have an armored turret, and plus the hyacinths have a very small barrel resource, that is,

due to the fact that these were still soviet guns, it is difficult to say which ones are there residual resource in them remained yes, of course, you can remove from some guns and rearrange them in other warehouses, but the first is not a small resource of the barrel and the second is specific projectiles that are not unified from the city and the cities would not allow the russians to use these guns well, they are already active, for example, the cities of smb in addition, even gentlemen use these two s7 and 2.7m ion and mavka - this is 2003 mm - heavy guns , this was such a superior soviet atomic artillery , the task was to shoot atomic ammunition at a long distance, and due to the fact that it was atomic artillery. they have a very poor barrel resource there, if i am not mistaken. 400-450 shots. so, uh, and a small amount because the distance is long, uh,

for an atomic munition - this is not of little principle importance, but in our case, here, i know one object which these pions are firing at us, they have already dropped a huge number of projectiles, they hit a number of civilian buildings there, but they did not hit their target, because the range is small , the rate of fire is small, and the resource is small, and apparently they are already worn out enough, well this is what concerns the long-range and russian artillery, well, that is, if we are talking about the range in order to remember through the prism of evaluating the supply of foreign samples, then stas, relatively speaking, it is 25-30 km, and the peony is somewhere around 47 km, the hyacinth is 37 km. that is, my mother says that this is limited the number of pawns - this is the only long-range means of 47 km, and the rest - up to 30, about so eh olezhe tell me, please, when we are still talking about the

first and second stages of the war eh, the logistics command of the ground forces announced about the losses of our artillery there. if i am not mistaken , it was said that our losses amount to about 700 art systems, and this, as i understand it , creates an urgent need to replace the lost samples and replace the soviet equipment, which today already has an exhaustive resource when we talk about soviet samples and the first to reach us were the m-3 simka howitzers, which actually began to change this disparity, probably in our favor. of foreign equipment, well, here it was hidden in the eyes of the fact that the transfer of western artillery was extremely important and because of the fact that you do not want any ammunition shortage, that is, the number of

outfits that ukraine had in warehouses as of february 24, it is already at the stage of over in june, it turned out that less than 155 mm caliber artillery ammunition was handed over to us. this does not mean that a huge amount of exactly 150 millimeter ammunition is being issued. the reason for this was the lack of both own production and constant over the years just explosions at artillery warehouses. and when we received the m3-7, and we are talking about more than 130 artel systems, the male e-e m-3 sevens of the so-called which you transferred to the united states australia, canada and other countries. it should be remembered that, first of all, this is the main parameter - it is a barrel with a length of nine calibers, namely the length of the barrel and depends on the given firing, which is 24

km with an ordinary projectile, approximately somewhere to this number a actively reactive up to 30 km at the same time when we are generally talking about western artillery with a 155 mm caliber we must remember that a 155 mm projectile is 10% larger than a soviet 1500 mm projectile, for example, modern american projectiles, for example, contain two times more explosive substance, that is, the striking ability of a western-style projectile is simply significantly greater than that of any two-millimeter one. another aspect is the accuracy of fire. that is, we use absolutely or with a minimum range of guns that uh, well have much better characteristics in terms of accuracy and reliability. if we compare them with soviet systems, especially the ones that we

previously had in service with the armed forces of ukraine, that is , it has been more than 30 years, in principle, that is, if we received m-37s, which are the most modern in general, the towed howitzer in the world and made of titanium alloys with electronic systems are given, which well, it is simply considered one of the best because it is extremely light, mobile and has exceptional accuracy, then compare it abstractly with conditionally i don't know there with d-20 it's just well there's no point because that's all it is to compare the weapons of the 50s how are they actually and the 21st century vyacheslav but we 're talking about three sevens actually frankly i didn't expect that we're getting exactly these guns we think that we are getting there m198 we are more there s- the old version and now when we hear our military on any di front you can often hear that we lack artillery is everything even or determined that is why

he says that we got there 200 m 37 - there is a loss of 700 systems and does this not mean that we maybe it makes sense for us to still think. in this sense, when we talk about this segment of towed howitzers and about increasing the number and even returning to the m198 howitzer, is such a step appropriate? we also asked this question. it seems to me that the answer is here in the following, first of all, well, first of all, the united states has quite a lot of m1 198 in warehouses, and theoretically, the united states can easily transfer them to ukraine, i.e. there is such a possibility, but there are several points, firstly, these are howitzers that are used and we do not know in what technical condition they are, that is, what is the residual re word and so on, and secondly, these howitzers are heavier, and then their mobility and we have m-3

sevens, they maneuver on dirt roads, they are driven by tractors, they are towed quickly enough and efficiently, then m-m 198 is heavier and this will affect mobility, and especially when autumn and winter begin in our country, rains will begin, dirt roads will dissolve and that will already be matter and one more point that seems to me that now the capabilities of our artillery are limited not only by the number of artillery systems, but also by the amount of ammunition, that is, the united states of america, great britain constantly supplies us with artillery ammunition, but their number is compared to how much it can the russian federation is limited in its ability to use it , and that is why you are talking about supplying the m198 makes sense only

if the united states significantly increases the number of 155 mm projectiles, which they transferred to ukraine, that is, in the conditions of a limited number of shells, it is better to use them in systems whose efficiency of useful action will be maximum, that is, from a newer, more modern in terms of electronics and a more mobile system, that is, the m-77 e-e approach is clear and now we will move a little then entering from another sample, leaving no longer towed, moving to self-propelled howitzers, and i will start again, as it were, with the old conditionally old sample of the m109 self-propelled howitzer , which we received from several countries, oleg , a brief analysis of the m109 howitzer in that version

is used by the ukrainian army, that is, in fact according to official sources, that is, it is some kind of secret today, and all their numbers that will sound are general public information that was publicly announced, so now we are talking about the fact that the allies are primarily great britain, norway, and others not named countries, about fifty 109 howitzers were transferred to ukraine, which are actually quite old weapons, but they were constantly updated and are still being updated and remain in the new armament and is in general the main self-propelled system of the usa, this is and if we speak, we received the e-e howitzer cm-109a3 jn - it is a modernized howitzer from the fact that already with the length of its 39 caliber we received howitzers in the a4 version, which have e-e most likely have such the same barrel and it is possible that the receipt of the a5 version has not been confirmed, which is a little different, more deeply

modernization from the point of view of centralization of systems, and the possibilities are again sexual, they are related to the length of the military 39 caliber, that is, we are again talking about the range, well, 24 dashes, 30 km in depending on the projectile, it is possible a little more due to the use of modern actively reactive projectiles for them. taking into account the fact that there are already more than fifty of them, this actually makes the m-109 one of the main self-propelled guns currently in service with the armed forces of ukraine of western models, and moreover, relatively in general receiving aid from the usa , that is exactly the same. in the m-109 version, for example, there is no shortage of a6 in the u.s. armed forces. there were several hundred of them simply in warehouses for our storage and strengthening of the armed forces. with this system,

it is quite likely that ukraine will be able to send artillery ammunition to us with this system, and by the way, in fact, in just this month, it was already announced that 140,000 artillery ammunition in the caliber of one hundred kilometers will be provided in a new package aid that was announced yesterday, we are still talking about 240,000 additional munitions. that is, we are reaching indicators that, in my opinion, can already allow us to talk about the expansion of the vyacheslav artillery park as we speak about the m-109 in those versions that we use today from the point of view of combating the enemy , this system is used to fight there with 100 s . -th howitzer

2 s3 acacia in the ukrainian army, that is, they have technical problems there, and again there is a lack of shells, that is, we have heavy mechanized tank brigades that are armed with 2 s3 howitzers, and that is due to the problems that arise with these soviet systems, it would be appropriate to replace them in our heavy brigades precisely with m109. and indeed, the united states has a significant number of m 109a6 in warehouses, that is, it would not be critical for them to transfer them to ukraine in commercial quantities there, for example, 111 or even 200 units and the second is due to the fact that these howitzers are already beginning to be used in the ukrainian armed forces, and we see that the ukrainian troops are already mastering the older modifications a3 a4 a5, that is, there will not be any difficulty in retraining ukrainian artillerymen a

we see from our own experience what kind of specialists they are, let 's just say, the wonders of specialists, and they easily switched to western weapons and were able to use them effectively, and they didn't have to spend years on retraining there, that is, there is no technical problem with the transfer of these weapons, there is no problem with training personnel , that is, the transfer of the m109a6 to the tank and mechanized brigades of the armed forces of ukraine would now be extremely appropriate. i have almost no experience of cooperation with these artillery systems, one case that i saw was that a self-propelled howitzer literally hit the target with three shots, that is, we are talking about the m-109 of an older modification. that is, it is due to the very design of the e-e sample, due to the ammunition,

despite the fact that it seems to be an old sample a that is, all the same, it is much more effective than the soviet samples that are the real ones of the ukrainian army. well , the question here is not even when the howitzer was produced. regular technical work was carried out, parts that failed were replaced, if the barrel was replaced or it was or was not sufficiently worn, then this is a sufficiently effective weapon, even in connection with you, despite the fact that it is a weapon of the cold war, that is, if this weapon was repaired and modernized accordingly now it is murderously effective, and now at will let's move to real samples - this is, in particular, the polish sau-crab, which we want to bury for the ukrainian army in large numbers olezhe the main

the advantages of this type of weapon from the point of view of well, the need for opportunities on the battlefield, that is, when we talk about multiples. here, the first thing you need to understand is that we are moving from a barrel length of 39 calibers, which is limited in range to 25 there, 30 km to 50 over a length of 52 calibers. now this will be the length of the barrel, it is considered the golden mean and, well, almost the standard, it is considered new, because all modern western self-propelled guns have a caliber of 25 mm and a barrel length of 52 calibers, which allows you to hit the perch with an ordinary projectile from 30 km and more a actively with a jet at 40 km and more, uh, relative to saokrap, this is a polish salo and in which, well, in fact, the polish remains with the digital control system and the pass, to which we will return especially later, and the self-propelled gun itself, its undercarriage is a korean

k9 chassis, and the fighting part, that is with an artillery e-e with part of it without an average british as-90 gun with a german barrel and all this production of all these components was established in poland, which already, according to official information from warsaw, transferred 18 units, and the transfer was not only the self-propelled artillery installations, and in general the entire complex, which includes control vehicles and other support vehicles, this is extremely important because the ready-made so-called combat kit was transferred, relatively, in this way, the carbine was also ordered by ukraine, we are talking about sixty units, a contract has been signed for it to be officially cooled, and thus this weapon may well become one of the main howitzers for arming, for example , artillery brigades, that is, mechanized plates readers will have m109 and the crabs can go to

specialized artillery brigades in which it is extremely important to have a high amount of fire, a high range of fire and the use of all modern targeting devices comprehensively. it has its own fire control system and has its own reconnaissance shock circuit, what does this mean if we explain to our viewers what the advantages of this approach are the use of artillery, well, this is precisely the same western approach that distinguishes it from the russian one , that is, when artillery is not such a thing in itself, an artillery gun. and this is an element of a reconnaissance strike complex, where there are means of reconnaissance, there are means of targeting the terrain in the gun, means of calculations, automated firing transmission of

information and all this allows just such complex systems to hit targets faster and, what is very important, with minimal expenditure of projectiles, and this is important not only for logistical reasons, but also because that artillery systems overheat, and if you need to fire 200-300 shells at a target, several artillery systems can do it for hours. and if 20 shells are enough to impress a target, then literally one self-propelled gun can fire in a matter of minutes and change its position. that is this significantly increases both the effectiveness of the use of projectiles and significantly increases our survival from the artillery itself, because it does not need to be there for hours in the same positions. artillery systems compared to the russian ones. this

is another element that allows the relatively small number of western artillery systems that are currently in the armed forces of the ukrainian army to effectively perform their tasks and oppose the much more numerous russian artillery when oleg talks about the place in the order of battle when talking about the artillery of the brigade do you agree with such assessments, i.e. that it is optimal to establish them as a staff structure as a separate brigade ? artillery, such brigades, reserves of the supreme command, or have a mixed composition of self-propelled divisions that were used in the directions of the most important e-e efforts and towed guns, let there be m three sevens or e-e m198 if we get them, or there fil-ha-house

70 western european cold war times, that is, such long-range artillery is appropriate in artillery brigades, we can say that the commanders of mechanized brigades would like to have such artillery systems as such a long arm but in principle, what i see. with my own eyes , the artillery brigades cooperate very closely with the mechanized brigades, and where long-range artillery support is needed, the artillery brigades allocate separate guns, batteries or divisions to support the mechanized brigades, so organizationally it really makes sense to build long-range self- propelled howitzers in the artillery brigade. at the same time, when we talk about crabs, about the significant amount that we order, we understand that we are ordering new samples that will be manufactured long enough, and in parallel, the ukrainian army

or government orders a significant number of the coolest german howitzers, panzer howitzers - that's 2000, so what's the advantage in particular. first of all , it makes you understand that when it comes to pzk-2000 , you need to understand that this self-propelled gun is still considered to be one of the best, not the best in the world, but definitely one of the best, and it is still considered revolutionary, despite the fact that it was developed on the border of the 80s to the 90s and entered the service of the bundessphere at the end of the 90s. however, to understand this self-propelled gun in the class of 155 mm, the barrel length of 52 calibers belongs to the absolute world record for the firing range of an active rocket projectile, which is 67 km just to

understand this number, let me remind you that, for example, shooting with the most common 152 mm self-propelled gun, which is in service with the russian federation, even with an active rocket projectile, is a little more than 30 km , that is, the advantage of the loan is 2,000. well, just in times let's put it this way, in addition, it has an extremely important aspect. it has a charging mechanism that provides a rate of fire at the level of 12 shots - this is a record for a in stable use of up to eight shots per minute, and there are also special modes that allow, thanks to the high rate of fire, the so-called msi mode when the howitzer fires projectiles in such a way that they hit the aiming point at the same time. that is, for example, up to five projectiles are fired there at different angles with different survivable charges, but all of them hit the target at the same time, that is, one acs can do it