because this lavra in the territory of the ternopil region is a breeding ground of the russian world, a hostile structure that hates it is ukrainian and our task is to immediately close it, liquidate it, ban it, and bring them to justice, mr. mykhailo, you and you, stay still, i will make one more brief statement about him. now i will listen to mr. myroslava and viktor yelenskyi on this topic p. myroslava, what is going on, this is a direct violation of the law on martial law. it is clear. well, they didn’t stop, they allowed it. in ukraine, some communities banned orthodox churches altogether. the moscow ones also have such a thing on their territory, but how to solve this problem in general, because we understand that there are a lot of people in the bowels of this church, and yes, the answer is actually, you know, i apologize, but in reality, it all looks like profanation when the local communities will make a decision to ban the moscow church there this is nothing but pr, you can imagine tomorrow we will pass a decision of the ternopil regional council to ban the moscow church in the region and what is there is a law there are some

legal points and we do not have the authority to do this at the local level this can only be done at the legislative level, when you equate that structure with a criminal one, and then you can ban it. and as long as the village council, the city council or others did not make decisions about the moscow church, this is all illegal because according to the constitution there is a law on free religion, there is an article and a law about religious communities, therefore, no local community has the right to limit anything. and all those decisions were ours, they are purely declarative, they have no legal force and it is just a one-time one-time pr. therefore, all the same you and i will keep the parliament running for now, nothing will change, mr. myroslav, but it is about how to remove this religious, religious, and political force from ukraine, but at least make it one that could not influence anything, because we are now seeing a frank disregard for laws and winter and, in principle, any morality, mr.

myroslav, please, the march is undoubtedly a provocative step because there is a desire to show martyrdom for the faith, here we expected a ban, here we expected some kind of e non-transmission and so on and that's all. this is a picture that should be shown in moscow and to the russians. first, how powerful is the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate. solved this problem a long time ago, if some

priests, the leadership of this church violates state laws. for this, there are state laws that give the right to punish this leader or a simple worker of the church, it is quite enough state laws in order to bring some church that violates e-e laws to justice and i'm talking about bringing specific persons to justice, while e-e in the matter of e-e recognition of some religious e-e church of some religious community as a criminal, the state can allow this only

in exceptional situations because people's right to religious freedom remains the main educational right of a person and i don't want to repeat some historical parallels, although i will still do it in my time stalin was i am completely convinced of the correctness of the ban on the greek-catholic e-e church and how it ended. i know that my aspiration is for the influence of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine to be reduced to zero. my e-e models of the e-e orthodox church e of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine when it is the leader of the interests of russia and not in the moscow

patriarchate of ukraine, this model is absolutely harmful for us, but in order to correct it, we need to resort to other means than a ban, because a ban will only cause resistance, it will give a feeling of martyrdom to the faithful of the moscow patriarchate. and this will turn against ukrainian interests. to mr. victor, the question is, well, this church, in principle, which currently exists in russia, was created by stalin in the 43rd year . it was called the russian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate. he was a student of the teflii theological school. well, then he left it there and engaged in revolutionary activities, but that is, he came up with it himself and that's how it was, they were called navrians. well, it's no secret that in this church especially the highest-ranking priests were either

actively connected with the kdb or were agents of the kdb or were personnel employees as employees of the kdb who, so to speak, were also engaged in the spiritual and spiritual component of working with the population and this is a fact here we are already talking about such a component because it is possible to talk nonsense many, but we understand that there are real things, these are people who cooperate with the fsb of russia, we have seen examples when many priests and in kyiv, by the way, also in the russian orthodox church, in the moscow patriarchate of the uoc mp, they or had weapons or had connections with saboteurs or supported saboteurs or carried out anti-ukrainian activities pro-russian activities i.e. in fact, these are people who are the same fighters of the russian army as those who came with machine guns and in this matter, viktor, where are you ? fight with this because we have to fight with this well, we have not fought for a long time and we see that it constantly leads to the same consequences, please well, in fact, how

to fight with those who have a machine gun and who hide weapons or who engages in sabotage. this is very well known about this. as we see, in ukraine , they are fighting quite consistently. as for this church, which in may, at the end of may, purged everything related to the moscow patriarchate from its charter, i believe that here is a slightly different story about uh, in contrast to the one that mr. myroslav said, you understand, uh, we are talking about a structure that has existed since the 14th year. and all the time emphasized her er

neutrality, although her heart and soul was on that side, and we happened to call the great invasion this issue for the first time, metropolitan onuphrius, because it was the crime of the brother from whom he i expected , of course, that the structure of the moscow patriarchate has no place in ukraine, but the state policy that is carried out was carried out even before the great invasion for two years, and now it seems to me both weak and inadequate to the current situation, as mr. correctly said myroslav the task is to minimize or

completely eliminate the influence of the moscow patriarchate on ukraine, and once the leadership of our country announced in the 19th year that it was against interfering in the affairs of the church, and i fully share this maxim, except that it would be very it would be good if the affairs of the ukrainian church were not interfered with by the russian federation, when it interferes on a very large scale, when it interferes, it is brutally brazen and at all levels, we know about the burglary of the boxes of the constantinople hierarchs, we know about how greece was threatened by the crisis of refugees, we know about all these intimidations that were carried out in relation to the hierarchies, even

the governments of the countries of orthodox culture, in such cases, the state policy of ukraine regarding the religion of the church cannot be to say that she is so removed, that is, this policy must necessarily include the support of the ukrainian church ; this policy must necessarily include the support of all efforts of ukrainian diplomacy to recognize the orthodox church of ukraine by others by local churches, just like the diplomacy of the russian church everywhere in belgorod, sofia, everywhere, it is trying, as they say, to torpedo the ukrainian issue, it also foresees adequate steps and adequate measures regarding the hostile activities carried out by orthodox priests in or hierarchies in ukraine

, that is, we are talking about a consolidated state policy, which is a policy provided for by the law of ukraine on freedom of conscience and religious organizations. one question, let me ask one question, uh-uh, victor was talking about the activities of the priests of the russian moscow patriarchate, the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate. i would like to ask about the pochaiv lavra, where is the public procession? there have always been questions about who is there. we remember how the militants were hiding a little on the territory of the kyiv-pechersk lavra, especially this one is about this in the quarrel that the brazilian fought against ukraine in the donbass and then somehow they found him there was such a story among the monks of the pechersk lavra. and now, during the war, does anyone generally check the pochaiv lavra to see if it is possible to enter there and

whether there are facts of anti-ukrainian activity among the priests or brothers of this monastery or other religious institutions, so to speak of the moscow patriarchate on the territory of ternopil oblast, please , and i wanted to say that from the first days of the full-scale war, of course, they did not leave with searches and inspections of the lavra. the fact is that they really did not interfere with anything of the special services the sbu police also checked, and well, nothing of the sort was found there, and there were some trifles, but i would like to say that at that time they took a rather quiet position, that is, what did not happen. this is exactly what happened at the beginning of the war, the more often this issue is postponed, the long box of solutions from the moscow church is not in their hands, they have time to regain their strength, there is no time to take a breath, regroup and start new actions

, this move just showed that they already were fully rehabilitated by that time, they were already ready to further introduce a propaganda and offensive operation, and that is why our special services did not do anything to catch them there, their agency, which i understand is not so easy because someone somewhere is speaking out others can detain him, but usually they are still trying to act more carefully now, for today , in my opinion, i consider the number one task to be the mass transition that is currently being slowed down by the ministry of justice and the minister of molluscs maybe he should be immediately released or arrested, maybe for treason, maybe he sold himself to the moscow church. no one knows the facts, but what is being blocked is not only for ternopil oblast. and i am already talking to other regional heads now. transition, they simply remove the registrars and there is no one there to register, that is, communities today that are transferring to the ukrainian church, they cannot officially

register themselves, this is a second time. of course, what is needed at the supreme level, it is unacceptable for president zelenskyi to meet with the updated church. well, on independence day, he was invited there to joint events, so on, and next to him is the chief head of the russian church in the moscow patriarchate in ukraine. the government completely legitimizes the president back, returns him to such active action, therefore, if such measures were not invited, they were not contacted, they were driven to the curb, as they say, then of course there would be another the conversation therefore, maximum distancing from the authorities, maximum checks of their clergymen for cooperation with the special services of the russian federation, yes, everyone should be detained who expresses anti-ukrainian theses, and there are so many of them, there are special features of generosity, they allow themselves to make various speeches there. therefore, all of this should be punished at once in

the bud and the question will be removed automatically and therefore of course it will be worth recognizing this structure as hostile and this is normal, i want to give you an example, you said that it cannot be banned and why in montenegro wool was banned, such a church was recognized as an enemy and the question was removed once and for all, that is, montenegrins understood that for national security, for stability in the country, so that there would be no enmity, and for there to be spiritual unity, it is necessary to ban the enemy church, they banned the church and everything and the issue remove and why can't we ban the enemy church in moscow and the question will also be removed automatically everyone who calls or supports them to be arrested as collaborators arrested as traitors detained and the question will be removed if they want to play martyrs, please, a suitcase , a train station, moscow to her. goodbye, is it fair, when ukrainians die, fight, die for their country, shed blood, and they promote

the russian church? we still have so many people who inadequately assess the situation that is happening, that this war is exactly what brought us this russian orthodoxy, they came to finish the russian language, now tomorrow they will come again to invade, they will defend russian orthodoxy, this will continue indefinitely until we solve this issue once and not always. i didn't put a full stop in it. thank you very much, mr. mykhailo golovko, the head of the ternopil regional council was with us. we say goodbye to you. i wish you a good day and we continue with mr. myroslav and with mr. viktor our conversation. now i will give you the opportunity to listen, we will return to the conversation about the pope of rome dugina, the statement about her, and in general, the proposal, we have literally 10 minutes and we will have time to agree. as they say, i first gave the opportunity to listen to what he said about the murdered unknown woman, i don't know who killed her, this propagandist darya platonov dolgina, what the head of the ministry of foreign affairs of the russian federation serhiy lavrov said, i can't judge what it was, but who is terrible, i don't

think it's a barbaric crime we there is no forgiveness and those who organized it now, as i understand it, the fsb has already established the facts that are now being investigated, the investigation will hopefully be completed quickly, and as a result, the investigation will finally be revealed by the organizer and the customers использователем не может быть никай площады so that's how everything turned out lavrov. now i'll ask a question about the pope more than a political figure . are there no deposits of the russian elite in the vatican bank - this is also such a very difficult question and it can also affect the statement of the pope of the roman religious figure, but still, i will now talk more about him, about the politician, but i will say one thesis. and you can also be comment you know, christ and the apostles were not afraid

to call evil evil, traitors, traitors , apostates, apostates. as it was said, ivanka was there, the baptizer said that you are your father, satan, so you, er, there are painted graves, you er, paul wrote that so-and-so so-and-so departed from god and does a lot of evil. well, they were not afraid to call sinners sinners possessed, we possess apostates with apostates, why now is the head of a large church starting to look for some kind of compromise, well, christ had no compromises, the one who did not know and everything against us, well, everything seems to be clear and these people they they clearly position themselves, meaning russia as those people who are people who are haters of ukraine, haters of god in general, p myroslava, please, you are right that in christianity, there is a great tradition of calling evil evil, and this is a great first prerequisite for justice

if evil is not named by name then the victims of this evil feel it as an injustice perceive it as an injustice called the nazi regime as the culprit of evil from the very beginning, so how about me, i feel it and i say this personally, i also spoke to franciska about the fact that for us ukrainians , ukrainian catholics are spiritual the spiritual head is the bishop of rome and not the head of the vatican state, and the

vatican is characterized by the desire to preserve the channels of communication, to preserve the channels of mediation, this was once again characteristic of pope pius 12, it was characteristic of virtually all of them pope and uh here uh after all pope francis spoke again to me at the audience is exactly what i want to preserve the channels of mediation not the highest positive such history of which the vatican is very proud there was mediation during the caribbean crisis when, thanks to the initiatives of the pope, it was

possible to um, well, extinguish this conflict and prevent a third world war, a nuclear conflict, about that. today, we have other, different types of conflict today, in the expressed good and evil. today, ukraine is an undoubted victim of undoubted aggression, and those models cannot be applied here. which were in the caribbean crisis and that's why ukrainians rightly feel a lack of justice. sorry for the tautology. their pain is justified. victor, you also have a question. there are literally 5 minutes left, but you will definitely make it. i wanted you to

say more about the pope. politicians say that he is supposedly going to visit moscow in the spring, and this is also so. therefore, with such statements, in principle, i am preparing a normal, normal atmosphere for this visit. well, friends, again, questions about the vatican bank, well, they write. however, we do not know of course, we are not bankers here, not some kind of insider, but they write that certain deposits of the russian elite are also stored there, and this may also be the reason that, well, we have to have to, again, i will say to maintain such neutrality here, it is conditional neutrality. please, look, actually . talks about russian money in the vatican bank, it's also about stalin's speculations, how many popes in the e division, the catholic church does n't work like that, and the church doesn't work like that in general, and when ivan paul ii died, one perceptive e-e journalist wrote in his obituary now you're nobody in the world doesn't have many divisions. the fact is that the

church mobilizes public opinion in a different way. and in general , you understand people in this world when you meet the pope - ivan paul was met by a third of poland in 1979, the soviet the ambassador wrote to moscow that our colleagues say that our cause, our cause has been banished, what is in the church is not wealth and not even michelangelo's masterpieces. and this is moral capital, and that is why i am so sorry that this is moral capital - capital in our eyes with are undervalued and devalued because of what, in order to have the opportunity to look into putin's eyes, and what the pope saw there, he had already seen the dutch declaration when he, for the sake of it being written there that we, that is, catholics

and orthodox brothers, made some concessions regarding and of the greek catholic church and orthodox churches and so on just to hear that we are brothers because he really wants christian unity and for kirill it means nothing kirill he is the minister of one of the ministries of the russian federation at the end of the 16th year he doesn't even i mentioned this haman declaration, that is why the pope is very wrong when he hopes to become, on the one hand, a mediator, and on the other hand , he does not see that in this war, there is no ambiguity here, evil is distilled and good is also distilled, and on this distinction of good and it is the church that is evil. i thank you very much

for your participation. he is a philosopher, a dissident, a human rights defender, i say goodbye to our guests, i wish you a good day and uh, take care of yourself, well, there are literally a few minutes left, i will say that we will meet with you today at 19:15 in the framework of the big air, we will talk about the situation, about everything that happened during the day, and here to finish our conversation about religion and politics, this is the crusade which, well, just directly contradicts the law on martial law, you don't need to breed some uh, many theories, ideas , who why can't it be forbidden, it's simply illegal i'm saying, i'm a man, i can't leave the borders of ukraine. i don't want to leave the borders of ukraine, but i can't. if i come to the border somewhere near lviv, well, from lviv there to poland, they won't let me in and i'll be yelled at because it's in the law it is stipulated

that in the conditions of martial law, we are a man of conscription age who must be in ukraine. and why, then, when it is written that there is a peaceful march, what gatherings are prohibited? here you can't and this wrong again, i will say well, regarding the statements of the pope of rome, it is still important here if we are talking about the christian faith and for faithful people it is still important to believe in christ, read his words, his commandments and live according to christ, anyone who is in a religious position who is a bishop, a priest , a metropolitan. these are just people who serve christ, they can serve well, they think poorly, you can depart from christ in some ways, you can depart , but these are people, i will say again, we must be with christ, what kind of people are at the front today, by the way they choose our independence, they just live according to christ. whoever took the dream from him will perish, whoever came to us with a ball, he will perish from the ball, and we must defend our land, love our family, protect our family, protect our land, and this is the time

war is christianity, and the enemy must live where he lives, so one should not be tempted by the statements of certain religious figures . the sun - this christ and people - these are people they can say today one thing tomorrow another thank you what will happen to me goodbye until the evening this was a worldview program be with us watch the express a-a-a we are looking for seven-year-old dima filonov who went missing in mariupol it almost happened six months ago, on march 21, when fierce fighting was taking place in the city, since then nothing is known about the fate of this little boy. unfortunately

, i also have almost no information about the circumstances of dima's disappearance, there is only one photo of him however, i i am asking you to look carefully at the boy's face , he is 7 years old, he looks his age, his height is about 120-130 cm, he has light eyes and light hair . dimofilonova, or do you know where he might be now, please immediately call the hotline of the child tracing service at 116,000 , or write to the chatbot of the child tracing service in telegram. also in mariupol, three-year-old maksym vasichkin disappeared in front of this boy in march. the russians shot at his parents, he survived the bombing and shelling, ended up in the occupied territory and is now considered missing in a

car about everything that happened next, grandmother maxima told me about everything that happened, maxima was behind the wheel, maybe i was sitting in the back with the elder and the grandchildren, and the daughter was sitting with the younger grandson , mr. lyudmila says that they pasted over the car from all sides with stickers with the words children, but almost immediately their car was fired upon very strongly, and when i raised my head because i bent my head to the children, i bent my head to the elder when i raised my head i picked up er then saw that my husband was lying on me er i don't know well i only saw him take his back he was laying on him er patted my daughter on the head the little girl responded er then i heard that the little grandson

started er eh ask eh the daughter is in her arms because of a strong seam, the woman does not remember how long they were in the car after the shooting, and she came to her senses when they were already being pulled out of the car by the ukrainian military . the injuries were very serious, so i didn't see the fishing rods because she was sitting on my left side, that's why her face was covered in blood when she was hit, i didn't see the child, as if she was also a military officer, but where exactly, but her face was also covered in blood, and where exactly she was hit , i don't know. to inspire