we are tired of informing you about what is happening and also trying to do some analysis with the help of our guests on the air. this is vasyl zima's worldview. we will talk about very important things on the air from 12-3 p.m. until approximately one o'clock. today i decided to talk about a about e -e processions of the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, which are organized on the territory of our state, in particular, we are talking about e-e. these are the crowd-pleasing processions from kamianets-podilskyi, khmelnytskyi region to the city of pochaiv, ternopil region, where in the administration and in owned by the temporary ukrainian orthodox church, one of the shrines of the ukrainian people, the pochaiv lavra, which was generally owned by the greek catholics, was simply squeezed out and given away stupidly . in some settlements, people don't let them into their territory because people there also wear tricolors , these are the rags with which the occupiers once brought

war to our land. well, these people support yana and profess pro-russian views. aggressor what is the russian federation? in addition, in these crusades, men with athletic physiques are seen, who clearly do not look like some believers, pilgrims, you know, people of god who go to pray, but they are so very well dressed with some strange shoulder pads. well, in principle again , there is a person with such an athletic body, you cannot distinguish him from other people who are not people of an athletic body, therefore certain questions also arise, and the second thing we will talk about is the procession of the cross, and by the way, i will tell you why in principle, it is illegal simply during the war , this crusade is illegal, because the law on martial law provides for the prohibition of any, um, such public events, peaceful processions, protests , rallies, all that is connected with the avarice of a large

number of people it is prohibited during the period of martial law, that is, it means the second thing, and let's talk about the statement of the pope of rome about the archer who died in moscow, victor yelenskyi, a religious scholar, a publicist, a doctor of philosophical sciences , viktor, i congratulate you now, i congratulate you, i am glad to see you and hear and also add another guest to the conversation, e.e. myroslav marinovych, philosopher, dissident, human rights defender p. myroslava. i congratulate you, i heartily congratulate you . mykhailo golovko should also join us, but he will join. and then, mykhailo golovko is the head of the ternopil regional council. and we will talk with him properly about this procession because in ternopil oblast and khmelnytskyi certain settlements simply did not allow these hmm participants of the procession to enter their settlements because people, again, i would say people from for obvious reasons, they were afraid that among them there might be

people from pro- i invited you to talk about it, we will not only talk about it, but it is such a major topic that is very hmm actively discussed in social networks and on tv broadcasts and it is important here to understand and to hear an expert 's assessment so, pope francis made a statement that was interpreted in different ways, the statement referred to all of daria, dudina, who died in moscow, where a car exploded, i will remind you, the daughter of the propagandist dugin, and then platonova dugina and the car burned down. she was lying in the coffin completely unharmed. and what happened there is unknown. well , in a word, she is gone. this is the person who said that the captives of the azov people with separate takeovers were ukrainian fighters for whom the court was being prepared by the russians. they are not people at all, and a special operation is needed .

spends much more than it is spent, that's why this person, of course, called for war, incited war, and supported the killing of ukrainians, and the pope said that she is an innocent victim, an innocent victim of war, so let's add it now, i'll add it to the conversation and viktor yalenskyi has already introduced him, he is joining us, viktor, be with us. so, the question is for you, myroslava. how did you react after hearing this statement by the pope as a religious figure, and then we will talk about him as a political figure, please? it was very sad to hear these words, because it cannot be interpreted as a mistake, dugin's daughter, as a propaganda war, a propaganda war is not an innocent person, it does not

mean that she must be killed, but er, she is not an innocent person, and in the mouth of the pope, such a delineation is, er, in my opinion, it is simply false, i understand his good intentions, er, to sympathize with everyone , er, but er, this description is unfair to er, ukrainians equally well, i can blame the ukrainian media as well, they focused attention only on the arch, but the pope spoke not only about them, and if we want the truth from the pope's ukrainian ssr, then we ourselves care about the truth because the pope also expressed his condolences and uh, because of the death of ukrainian children, so

he is trying to balance another thing. is this good or bad right or wrong but at least we don't distort uh with uh reality it is claimed that he only defended the dugina here i am attaching mr. viktor it is clear that uh well here we are now again the religious leader of one of the most influential churches in the world of the catholic roman catholic church well, the greek catholics also recognize the pope as their head, so let's say that the greek catholic church, we'll talk about political statements later, how about you mr. viktor, do you understand this and again, if we put we remember this story with a red procession in rome, so on easter, er, this viadelarosa means that the road grew up there, they carried the baptism

and there was a ukrainian woman and a russian woman who well, there is a separate story, who were these women, who were moldovans, then well, in one word, well, it's like a ukrainian woman and a russian woman if they were supposed to carry the cross together, but you know, there is such a story here that someone is now carrying the cross and someone is a whip on the back of ukraine, which is carrying the cross, but god is with him, and this is the second statement, and mr. myroslav is right here says that he remembers death ukrainian children, but the 379 killed ukrainian children are probably more, because more children have been killed recently. well, relatively speaking, almost 400 ukrainian children were killed, without the absolutely innocent, and dugina, who once again called for war, but i understand the logic of the pope, viktor, how would you rate it and if he had to say something different, what should he have said , or after all, as a religious figure, he should speak . that's the way, please. i also took the pope's statement with regret and er, i have repeatedly said that we do not

expect from the church er, any e-e programs with the disarmament of the world from the nuclear balance and so on and so on, but what the church should definitely do is distinguish between good and evil in this sense. well, a lot, not a lot, and i think that the vast majority of ukrainians were very disappointed. by many statements of the pope. yes, the pope never said that the pope sympathizes with the ukrainians, but he sympathizes with the victims of the war, but he never talks about who started this war, who is the culprit, and thanks to whom, and why which ideology is burning, er, the war is burning, it's mine it seems not just a mistake but from a distortion of the

social social teaching of the catholic church , which is the teaching it knows the concept of a just war knows the concept of a just fair defense and we can try as much as we want to explain the position of the pope so his past his convictions his place of origin his attraction to the southern hemisphere, but from the point of view of catholic teaching, it seems to me that this is simply a distortion of this teaching. head, the head of the ternopil regional council and we will talk about these uh, this red march that was organized from kamianets-podilskyi to pochayev, i will only briefly say the eighth, uh, article 8 of the law of

ukraine on uh, legal principles of martial law, it is said that it is prohibited to conduct of peaceful gatherings , rallies, marches and demonstrations of other mass events, point eight, part one of article eight , as amended, and so on, this is the law that is in effect, if this law is in force and according to this law, men of conscription age cannot leave ukraine, then they don't leave ukraine i can't sit down now to leave ukraine well, i can't, i don't want to , but they won't let me in. yes, for some reason, you can walk , although this is again prohibited by law. i'm just introducing this so that you understand what we have there are reasons to say why this is not possible p mykhayl good day i congratulate you i congratulate you good day so i wanted to talk about this march, so several settlements did not allow the participants of this march to their own on the territory of their communities somewhere they passed in general if we talk about violations of the law directly about martial law is the first thing. and the second thing is the organization of this procession and its participants. what is there that

causes surprise and misunderstanding, please? the fact is that you know this, we are talking about the consequences of the consequences of the actions of the church that is hostile to ukraine in our country and in our territory. the russian church, so to speak, is the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, which practically promotes russian peace and hostility to ukraine, and that is why ukrainian freedom has repeatedly raised this issue with us, moreover, we have registered a bill demanding the immediate ban of this a structure hostile to our state, which promotes war and promotes russian peace and hatred of everything ukrainian. in addition, we, on our part, as a regional council at the regional level, we cannot do this, but we held a session on this matter, we recognized this church hostilely appealed to the verkhovna rada to cool bill 72.04, the author of which is our deputy oksano savchuk from freedom. we also appealed

to the government to immediately terminate the lease and stay in the moscow patriarchate on the territory of our lavra, after all, it is a ukrainian shrine and moscow has nothing to do with it, and of course we also appealed to the ministry of justice to date. this is complete inhibition or cooperation on the part of the mollusks. maybe even i with moscow and the moscow church because we have nadiya, the registrar for more than a year, we have already had more than 40 communities that have switched from the moscow church to the ukrainian church. now they cannot register because they are being blocked, because our registrar does not have to register because is being blocked because our registrar does not have accreditation because the previous person resigned and the new person who was appointed to this position is her ministry of justice does not issue accreditation, so we immediately appealed to have it corrected or to give an opportunity extraterritorially, that is, in another regional center, to perform such a registration action, but

we see some solid resistance and blocking and that the first communities to go to the ukrainian church and the fact that today the power there is at the level of the verkhovna rada. so we saw the statement of stepanchuk who they said that now is not the time to consider the issue of the church during the war, although we believe that this issue will not be resolved and the war will never end, it will continue to infinity because if we want to win, we must first win the spiritual one, that is, so that ukrainians are united so that we don't have a russian martial law and now regarding this movement well, of course, the law enforcement authorities should have at the very beginning to arrest and detain all the organizers from kamianets-podilskyi there in melnychchyna or vinnytsia accordingly, to take certain steps, when they did that, they gave people the opportunity to organize themselves, and then the violent breakthroughs began, when people, for example, in pidvolochyska volochyska blocked bridges, did not allow them to enter the road, they sneaked around the fields somewhere, and so on. it is clear

that there were facts, not beatings were detained and we deserved the report of the chief police officer of our region, who reported that there are criminal cases, there are detainees, an investigation is being conducted there, and so on, although there was a decision of the regional security council that to ban any entrances, i would like to say that this year, every year, in general, the ukrainian greek-catholic church in our country in the marian spiritual center of zarvanytsia conducts a larger, so to speak, a simple one, and thousands, hundreds of thousands of parishioners go there, but this year, after listening to the recommendations, our church - this was stopped and there was practically no movement , that is, there are ukrainian churches that are adequate that now there is a war and cannot be exposed, and at the same time - this is a hostile inadequate church that behaves simply inadequately and does not respond to any comments they are conducting such a march and

provoking with all the violations. that is, this is a deliberate provocation that stirs up moments of conflict between citizens and ukrainians, and i believe that until this issue is resolved at the highest level, a ban on the activities of that hostile moscow structure called the russian orthodox church in ukraine will not be adopted. accordingly, nothing will be changed, that is, the war will continue, this conflict will not be resolved, and our task is to pressure the parliament as soon as possible so that they approve it, so we we started collecting signatures and now in ternopil region we have collected more than 50,000 signatures which will be taken to the verkhovna rada and we continue to collect signatures. this is the breeding ground of the russian world, a hostile structure that hates it is ukrainian and our task is to immediately close it , liquidate it, ban it and bring them to justice, mr. mykhailo, you and i will stay together

i will ask you one more short question. now i will listen to mr. myroslav and viktor yelenskyi on this topic. mr. myroslav, this is a direct violation of the law on martial law. territories are also like this, and how to solve this problem in general, because we understand that there are a lot of people in the bowels of this church, and yes, the answer is actually, you know, i apologize, but in reality, it all looks like profanation when local communities will make a decision to ban the moscow church there, this is nothing but pr, you can imagine tomorrow we will make a decision of the ternopil regional council to ban the moscow church in the region and what is the constitution, there is a law, there are some legal points and we do not have the authority to do this at the local level it can be done only at the legislative level, when that structure is equated with hostile to

criminal , and then it can be banned. it is illegal because according to the constitution there is a law on religion, there is an article and a law on religious communities, therefore no local community has the right to limit anything and all those decisions - we were purely decorative, they have no legal force and it is just a one-time one-time pr so i still you and i will keep the parliament running for now, nothing will change, mr. myroslav, but it is about how this power, religious, religious, political, well, i don’t know if it is possible to remove it from ukraine, but at least make it one that could not influence anything, because we now see an open disregard for us and the war and in principle any morality, mr. myroslav , please, the march is undoubtedly a provocative step, because there is an aspiration to show martyrdom

, we were expecting, here, we were expecting some kind of... this is a picture that must be shown to moscow and the russians, firstly, how powerful is the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate , secondly, how do they persecute believers in ukraine? the world solved this problem a long time ago, if some priests, the leadership of this church violates state laws. for this, there are state

laws that give the right to punish this leader or a simple worker of the entire church state laws are enough to bring some church that violates the law to justice, and i'm talking about bringing specific individuals to justice, while uh, in the matter of uh, recognizing some religious uh, church of some religious community as a criminal, it can the state should allow only in exceptional situations because people's right to religious freedom remains the main educational right of a person

and i don't want to repeat some historical parallels, although i will still do it in my time stalin was i am completely convinced of the correctness of the banning of the greek-catholic e-e church and how it ended. i know that my desire is that the influence of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine be reduced to zero . the leader of the interests of russia and not ukraine in the moscow patriarchate, this model is absolutely harmful for us, but to correct it, we need to resort to other means than a ban, because

a ban will only cause resistance, it will give a sense of martyrdom is faithful to the moscow patriarchate and this will turn against ukrainian interests to mr. victor, the question is, well, this church, in principle, which currently exists in russia, it was created by stalin in the year 43, it was called the russian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate i will always remind you that at one time he was a student of the teflian theological school. well, then he left it there and engaged in revolutionary activities, but that is, he came up with it himself, and that's how it was. rank were either actively connected with the kdb or were agents of the kdb or were personnel employees as employees of the kdb who, so to speak, were also engaged in the spiritual component of work with the population and this is a fact here already. we are talking about such a component because

you can talk a lot, but we understand that there are real things, these are people who cooperate with the fsb of russia, we have seen examples when many priests and in kyiv, by the way, also of the russian orthodox church and the moscow patriarchate of the uoc mp, they either had weapons or had connections with saboteurs or supported saboteurs or carried out anti-ukrainian activities or pro-russian activities , that is, in fact, these are people who are the same fighters of the russian army as those who came with machine guns. and in this matter, viktor, for you how can we fight this here because we have to fight it well, we haven't fought for a long time and we see that it always leads to the same consequences, please well, in fact, how to fight those who have a machine gun and who hide weapons or who saboteurs. this is very well known about this. as we see, in ukraine

, they are fighting quite consistently. as for this church, which in may, at the end of may, purged everything related to the moscow patriarchate from its charter, i think that there is a little another story about uh, unlike the one mr. myroslav said, you understand, uh, we are talking about a structure that has been around since the 14th year. time emphasized her neutrality, although her heart and soul were on that side, and we happened to call it a crime

time, metropolitan onuphrius of the great invasion, because it is the crime of the brother from whom he, well, there is no such thing anymore it is clear that the structure of the moscow patriarchate in there is no place for ukraine, but the state policy that is carried out was carried out even before the big invasion for two years, and now it seems to me to be weak and inadequate for the current situation, as mr. myroslav correctly said, the task is to minimize or completely eliminate the influence of the moscow patriarchate on ukraine. the leadership of our country once announced in the 19th year that it was against

interfering in the affairs of the church, and i fully share this maxim, except that it would be very good. if the affairs of the ukrainian church were not to be interfered with by the russian federation, when it intervenes on a very large scale, when it intervenes, uh, brutally , brazenly, and at all levels, we know about the burglary of the boxes of the constantinople hierarchs, we know about how they threatened greece, uh, that means crisis refugees, we know about all these intimidations that were carried out in relation to the hierarchies, even the governments of the countries of orthodox culture, in such cases, the state policy of ukraine regarding the religion of the church cannot be said to be such

excluded, that is, this policy must necessarily include the support of the ukrainian church, such a policy must necessarily include the support of all efforts of lviv diplomacy for the recognition of the orthodox church of ukraine by other local churches, as well as the diplomacy of the russian church everywhere in belgorod, in sofiyivka , she is trying, as they say, to torpedo the ukrainian issue, she also foresees adequate steps and adequate measures regarding the hostile activities carried out by the orthodox priests in the e-e or hierarchy in ukraine i.e. it is about e-e consolidated it is about a consistent state policy which i.e. the policy is stipulated by the law of ukraine on freedom of conscience and

religious organizations i am now mr. mykhailo i will ask one more question i will ask e-e n victor spoke precisely about the activities of the priests of the russian moscow patriarchate of the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate . the question of who is there we remember how the militants were hiding a little on the territory of the kiev-pechers lavra, especially this one is about this voice guard who fought against ukraine in the donbass, and then he was somehow found among the monks of the kyiv-pechers lavra, it was like this history and now, during the war, is anyone checking the pochaiv lavra to see if it is possible where to go and whether there are facts of anti-ukrainian activity among the priests or to take it from this monastery or other, so to speak, religious institutions of the moscow patriarchate on the territory of ternopil oblast, please. and i wanted to say that since the

first days of the war, full-scale registration, of course , they did not leave with searches and inspection of the lavra . the fact is that they really did not interfere with anything . some little things were discovered there, but i would like to say that at that time they took a rather quiet position, that is, what did not happen. this was the most frequent, the further this question is postponed, the long box of solutions from the moscow church is not in their hands. time, they were already ready to further introduce a propaganda and offensive operation, this is how it works, and that is why our special services did not do anything to

catch them there, their agents, which i understand is not so easy because someone somewhere he expresses himself, others can detain him, but usually they are still trying to act more carefully now, for today, in my opinion, i consider the number one task - this is a mass transfer , which is being slowed down today by the ministry of justice and the minister of molluscs, maybe he should be immediately released or detained he may be arrested for treason, he may have sold himself to the moscow church . no one knows the facts, but the blocking is not limited to ternopil region. and i am already talking to other regional heads right now. the situation is the same in khmelnytskyi region, that is, for the mass transition, they simply remove the recorders and there is no one to register, that is, the communities today that are transferring to the ukrainian church, they cannot officially register themselves, this is a second time. of course, it is necessary at the supreme level to completely withdraw from this church, it is unacceptable that the president zelenskyi met with onufry well, on independence day, he was invited there to joint events and so

on, and next to him is the chief head of the russian church in the moscow patriarchate in to ukraine, yes, that is, in this way, the president completely legitimizes his government back, returns him to such active action, therefore, if it were not for such measures, they would not be invited, they would not be contacted, they would be driven to the curb, as they say, so then of course there would be a different conversation, therefore, maximum distancing from the authorities, maximum checks of their clergymen to cooperate with the special services of the russian federation, so everyone should be detained who expresses anti-ukrainian theses, and there are a lot of them