because to drain the water from the whole system well, first of all, i would say, don't panic there, roughly speaking , we have city officials who will make every effort to restore the system of heat supply and energy supply there. i think that the trouble can be when there is heat or energy there there is no heating for more than three days, and it is there for january, february, yes, that is, we may have problems, and in other cases, i would still give time for the city authorities to have the opportunity to restore the supply of this energy resource. and if it looks like that what again in january, the lutyen frosts, low temperatures, frosts, then we have to drain the water from the systems, transfer water from the water supply, because it will freeze and even then there will be problems, therefore, at the level of the apartment, i would not change anything special at this stage at the level of the apartment, if you are not going to to spend the winter in an apartment if you have no heating in your house, i would think about providing water in the

same way to all summer residents. and so on and so on, i.e. so that the water does not freeze and blow away such safety things, they are very practical, at the same time, all these problems must be solved there with the drainage of the risers, this must be done at the level of the house, because you do not simply drain the water from the battery because you have it again, first of all, water is flowing here and again, water from the top floor of it , and secondly, if your neighbor's system breaks, it's not yours here, it's special - especially it won't change anything, because the system will be destroyed for you you need to secure the system for your apartment, sir svyatoslav, let's still talk about electric heaters and electrical appliances in more detail. how likely is it that there will be problems with power lines due to the fact that people will be heated in this way? well, if you look

at the general behavior of people ... prices for radiators for heating, heating devices, etc., for oil radiators, for various heaters, if you look at the prices in stores and on the classifieds website, they really have doubled in price and tripled in price of the last ones in the last six months, that is, there is a certain excitement and people are buying them, which means that they will install them and try to use them . in my opinion, there is a very important point that in case of problems with the heat supply, i think that in kyiv, well, kyiv is still big - it is a dynamic and not poor city, the city owners will be able to afford such repairs there, or whether they will use money. there are m-m resources in order to repair it in smaller cities, so it will not always be like that, because there may not be money for the material of specialists. there may not be specialists in the teams, that is, in different ways, so

i would. well, what are your tips in general, because we know that ukrainians are very sophisticated. so when it comes to all kinds of methods and savings, including that, we will not be surprised that we will also see burghers in high-rise buildings . well, it's a terrible bit of food, on the one hand, it's such a scream, why is it if there's no other way, and on the other hand, it's dangerous, because it's a matter of open fire, it's a matter of not being prepared, it's a matter of having this fire extinguisher policy with some kind of sheet metal there or ceramics so that the sparks do n't burn the hubs, i'm a little afraid of that, er, when garden electricity is transferred to me, it is very important that the residents of the house understand their connected power, what power their network can withstand at the same time, and that this figure is delivered to each

apartment, i.e. it's just that if you have a connected apartment, you have a permissible power of 5 kw there or 5.5 or 7.5 kw, this does not mean that every apartment is single-phase . it has been proven that the maximum power at the same time if you have uh, so you have to heat with electric devices. so there was a clear understanding that each apartment can take more than 1.5 kilowatts or 1.5 kw 1 m so that we don't turn on the electric stove there for a moment some kind of iron fan heater, that is, on the condition that you will heat one room and not three rooms , on the condition that you do not turn on the 2 kw oil radiator and the kettle at the same time, then maybe the network will withstand, but now it would be necessary walk through all the floors, that is, all the switchboards, then check the quality of the

contacts on the switchboards of the house. did it catch fire somewhere, because if we caught fire at the highest load , that is, i'm sure it's the load, there will definitely be problems there, so it's worth checking network before the beginning of the fuel season and bring the maximum power to the people - this is for mr. volodymyr, then the question is, if we talk more well, in such a global context, we heard a statement from ruslo fenderyan about what europe should take courses in the near future for alternative sources, in particular, in order not to depend on such stable yes energy carriers there, gas and coal, so they heard stories from the government there, representatives of the government of germany and france, who are also ready in the next few years there, at least yes, there is someone up to 30 years ago, someone declares that it is possible to switch to solar energy there aerial power generation, etc. and in ukraine in general, this story is as real as it is adaptive. in the current, well, not in the current conditions, but in the coming

years, it will bake, but in general, without the development of recovery sources of energy, i can't imagine the investment climate improving it in ukraine because the european union has taken this direction as a main line for its development and those countries that will not engage in development and decarbonization of the economy have absolutely no a chance to get serious investments, and therefore this direction should be the main investment direction in ukraine, and if it develops normally, then investments will also go to other sectors of the economy, but if international investors and international partners will see that our difficulties are artificially created for the ktn market, then there is absolutely

a one hundred percent probability that the investments will not go to other sectors, you understand , so after the war, the solar energy sector and supports the energy sector and the bioenergy sector has the first priority for government in order to create conditions for investment, that is, if we are talking about this priority direction, but of course it is not in the short term, then at the same time, we still have to take care, as they do in the european union, about the so-called diversification of suppliers, but of these same fossil resources, let's remember that in the eu, for example, they volunteered to supply the same gas there, and from kazakhstan, it seems, from the middle east , africa, norway, etc. yes, of course, ukraine does not need to do diversification, we

are able to invest and fully provide ourselves with natural gas, but today, even if the war is rejected, it was formed this is a situation where it is absolutely unprofitable to work in the gas industry because today the rent is higher than the price at which companies sell natural gas, such a paradox because they sell at the internal price, the rent is tied to the hook for you he international hub, do you understand this problem needs to be solved urgently because we will be left without our own gas and he and i would also like to emphasize that since 2010 ukraine has not discovered any serious gas field and has not seriously developed it. that's why the problem was with licenses, that's why licenses were sold. well, at one time, there were a lot of them to sell.

if we just count and not decide, then they remained like that, let's turn our discussion back to the occupied territories and i have a question for all our three experts, if these numbers are wrong, please correct me. i understand that today 800 or 585,000 consumers do not have access to electricity, more than 240,000 are without gas supply. what can we do today? what opportunities do we have to influence the situation? there, in fact, we do not have the opportunity to influence, the only thing we can do is turn to our respective partners there, to the red cross mission there, and to all others so that they somehow influence the russian federation. evidence of what the people in the occupied territories can count on. for those who

called for russian measures and so on, the russian federation absolutely does not care about them, its key main task is to destroy ukraine accordingly, ukrainians are engaged in this accordingly, they do not care about the elementary humanitarian needs of those people, which territories of those respective people who live, which they occupied, of course, what is international humanitarian law, for example, yes, there are certain international principles, yes , that is the responsibility lies precisely with the country that accordingly bought this territory. unfortunately, our resources are limited here, so we can call people to leave, and if they have such an opportunity, the deputies, more precisely, anna’s question, how you can count on, say, the support of local people and in the temporarily occupied territories, even try to hold pseudo-referendums there and somehow, well, hope for at least some kind of legalization. so

when, firstly, the entire infrastructure is completely destroyed. which is constantly on the air that no one thinks at all about the restoration of the winter season, that is, there will not be any in these territories ah, then where is the logic, look at the logic, let's say it has been occupied for 8 years part of donetsk luhansk according to the oblasts, tell me about the development there, yes, and since 2014. well, crimea is also occupied, respectively, tell me about the development there, and there is absolutely complete capital in all directions, yes, crimea is a corresponding military base, everything that is needed there, which provides they remain in all other territories. well, there is a terrible situation, starting with ecology and ending with completely different er-er everyday such ordinary things , obviously that er-er russian federal hopes on the basis of actual application. well, we see that all her ideological constructions that she was trying to build meant, well, release. well, you, yes, accordingly, in this territory, they absolutely

did not take root, well, for the most part, they did not take root and do not work. well, because it is already working. completely different approach and understanding of the situation yes, the russian federation is a clear occupier, the russian federation is a country that is appropriate stepan well, then we could play yes until february 24, someone, well, yes, maybe not a party to the conflict, we all remember this appropriate rhetoric, now the situation is different, and look, they ca n’t, it’s a failure, their capital failure, which is that how many times have they already announced to hold pseudo-referendums? well, i don’t know, probably a dozen times, well, now they have a number that was there for 15, respectively september, but they cannot do this because, provided that they draw everything there, they understand that it will not carry absolutely any relevant meaning for them, so it is simply necessary to draw conclusions . of the russian federation, including the non-fulfillment of humanitarian law there, this is all the subject of an appropriate investigation by the prosecutor general's office, and criminal proceedings are being initiated, and mr. khan works for us, he is a

prosecutor, according to the international criminal court, all this is recorded and the russian federation will be responsible for all this responsibility, but unfortunately, physically, we cannot help here. in addition to this heating season in the occupied territories, svyatoslav pavlyuk, executive director of energy- efficient cities of ukraine, is also with us now discusses this topic p sviatoslava i want to ask you for your opinion e so who will provide heat to ukrainians in the occupied territories in the winter, i can only be mistaken for the fact that these people manage to get off and leave this is my only wish because the leader himself will not be able to help there and it is not a fact that they can afford it by themselves, but people who at least have their own individual housing and have their own, their own, some kind of thing and can get wood somewhere to heat their house , they can still somehow support themselves, people who

stayed stayed to live in multi-story often broken houses uh, i don’t have any good news here and they they they they have to go in and leave that is i can imagine how it is possible to live in such a house obviously it is better than on the street then at least the snow emphasizes but their fate is sad and it ’s absolutely not for the address, so try to just leave such places. and this entails not only the issue of heating, it’s the oceans pushed in, that is, the problem of survival there, it’s a question of water, water supply , er, it’s a question of sewage. that is, all these qualification systems. they will also be blocked. they will also stop. this is the issue of electricity supply. well , this is it. all the infrastructure networks of the city are actually destroyed. they are crowned at work. in addition to heating, you also need to have a place to cook food . that is, you need to be able to

boil water and cook something there. fry and besides the stove, there is a tourist or kirogaz there if you have no other options, that is, the networks are not working , that is, rely on your own strength in an individual mode or, again, i will ask you to leave here the state of ukraine cannot help you with anything. these cities remain under occupation, but they remain somewhere connected to the gas and electricity supply networks . that is, somewhere, this electricity is collected from the networks. gas is taken from the networks . no, they authorized it there. everyone appreciates, you can argue eh, but it is definitely not paid for, for sure , the ukrainian operator will not be able to supply such a resource for free for a long time, that is, they bear additional losses in this regard there that's why i once again defend simply, well, these are appeals, and not his absolutely er, well, legitimate and objective.

we hear these appeals from government officials from our government officials there. the same vishrichuk herself constantly talks about it , and the president talked about it then to volodymyr sir's question, well, let's imagine, well, we 're talking about resettlement, in fact, well, if we take that into account, well, 100% for the basis of the whole region, that's, well, hundreds of thousands, millions of people there, and, well, physically, will it be able to cope at all. let's say the infrastructure and the local government, what very important in in those regions and regions where they will be resettled , because it is not necessarily foreign, it is not only abroad, but it is also ukraine here. will the state as such a local budgeting authority have enough resources to keep so many people and provide them with everything they need, you should choose the resettlement option correctly then it can be done, that is, i said that the cheapest way is not to build new housing

because it is very expensive and there is no time for it . today in ukraine, there is a lot of residential space, it is empty, and that is why i think that this is such a normal option. and if the people there are already the same pensioners, they will move, for example, from the same kramatorsk, there is some lviv region or ternopil region. but they still continue to receive a pension, you understand. maybe there are some taxes , they need to allocate financial resources, you understand. this will really strain the budget, but again, we have no other way out. priority for today

because you know that, for example, the same naftogaz is planned to allocate 150 over 150 billion uah. well, i think that naftogaz is the same poor company. i think that a part of this money is better to be transferred - to provide 150 billion for the salvation of our people here i.e. they just fell apart. the cabinet of ministers allocates 1.5 billion in total. i was not mistaken, they wanted 260th in general. you know, a very large sum. so say the company well, let's go back to such an applied component of our conversation, let's add information here: ukrainians are frightened by the prospects of a cold winter and are looking for various options for how to

insulate themselves and insulate their home. heat from the environment or even a solar battery on the roof of the house, actually insulating the house with mineral wool or cheaper foam is also quite realistically much more difficult residents of multi-apartment buildings should not count on state-funded insulation for the time being, but you can first of all check the condition of the heating and electrical networks yourself and who is carrying out current repairs. the load that your house can have although you can turn to the classics, so to speak, as in lviv, where andriy sadovy announced the purchase of thousands of metal stoves

for heating rooms and cooking food so , gentlemen, well, we have already heard that there are certain caveats here, and that this is a contradictory method of heating, from what we said. need to be done or you can add some heating methods that are not specified there p igor no, look, actually now there are, you know, water pumps, which also do not work very well, they are expensive there, by the way, somewhere in odesa, i think, there are enterprises that did well, there it is the well is true it should be well and so on. well, these are thermal, air, which there are mines and others. well, you understand, these are things that are not like that on the surface, you need to understand this , you need to be able to do it accordingly. of course, this is a question of economy. this is a question how did you say to seal the windows there and still other elementary things, of course, who has the opportunity to have an alternative? usually, it was very good, but more difficult

than multi-story buildings, but colleagues here really said that the bourgeois well, this is quite appropriate it is dangerous, the issue of fire safety and everything else, that's why there are complex solutions, i know that many condominiums are already conducting, well, those who have such a suitable form are also looking for alternatives, opportunities, er, some even in kyiv. i know condominiums say the possibility of a well to do in order to have autonomy. well, i’m going to mention that there are certain difficulties and they allowed all such other things here many, many moments ago. these are the elementary things that you said, we should keep them in mind, the main thing is to be thrifty in this situation and understand that even if you have it well, you have gas there and so on, you need to understand that this resource is limited and if you have too much of it, then someone does not have enough of it, but i think that look what the ukrainians have actually demonstrated now to the member such unity and support for each other. yes, for all these, there are at least six months of war, therefore, help and neighbors, you know, have become closer relatives

than some relatives, after all, this is why i think that in this such we will be able to cooperate normally survive this heating season mr. svyatoslav do you have any practical advice for our citizens we discuss these things all the time because we are children of a big city with a large centralized heating of the largest system, therefore we only discuss houses symbolized by heating and there are a lot of houses with individual heating this absolutely necessary a-a there is no such theory and practice of installing gas boilers in high-rise buildings, but in fact there are many such buildings and this trend continues in our country, 100% of the heating networks have been there for the last 10 years of lawyers, for example, i am already sure what this winter will be like for us, and what electric heaters, the electric heater has passed, you will not have

electricity, and then neither your electric heaters nor your gas document will work. i will have no other way out, historically speaking, it can be started, but if you look at the practical level, it is very important that the residents of such buildings have the opportunity to start their boilers in the presence of gas. there are 10-20-30 apartments, one generator that can be started because one gas boiler consumes electricity, you go and somewhere from 80 to 120 w. it is a small volume, but if you start an annual generator, you need 3.5 kw,

at least . he can pull 30 apartments himself . if you have such a situation that you do not have electricity for a long time, and such a situation can develop, we always live not only in kyiv , where there are many cities in ukraine, then it is worth having a dozen, second, third apartments and one generator which can be started and at least once a day there for a few hours start the heating system to warm the apartment so you see, mr. svyatoslav i am grateful to you because i received practical advice from you and i think that there are many people like me and i think that this question is the next together, i will present at our meeting of condominiums about the purchase of a generator, for example, a real expert. yes, in this matter, there is a small inventory of generators, which , in fact, can be used for one there, one boiler, and something else. and it can be the same more light bulbs work there. let's say it 's a generalized question. in that context, how can you influence the russian federation? we

just started this conversation with the fact that russia can strike at strategic infrastructure facilities. there are many discussions at the level of the us treasury and at the levels of the european union and ambassadors j7 how to put pressure on the russians eh hmm regarding there the energy embargo regarding uh well, let's say there are preventive measures in the form of regular packages and sanctions, is there any tool for today by the way, until today you know, there have not been any such serious strikes on the ukrainian gts, for example, yes, as an option, or in general, on the infrastructure itself, can the european union, the united states, the world put pressure on russia to protect ukraine from such precedents? how should we thank all our partners for what they do, but for today, i think the most

necessary is the supply of air defense and the protection of critical infrastructure, this is a key issue , and as far as i know, our president volodymyr zelensky is dealing with this issue and i think that it will be resolved positively, how to treat the embargo on russian energy resources in general, by the way, there is an alternative proposal from the ministry of finance of the united states, jonathan ellen talked about it and maybe we will be spearheaded, so to speak. energy resources at the nominal value at the cost of production will agree or not is another question, but as an option is this possible, well, it is possible but it is very difficult to do it. i think that the one currently operating it means panavts, it is more likely that it will be put into effect from december this month, it will be

effective enough, and in my opinion, it will be enough at this stage, but it is very important to also propose sanctions against the russian company rosa, which in fact organizes this the terror that is now taking place at the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and powerful sanctions against seedlings against its subsidiary companies that work around the world blocking of accounts around the world of dew companies there is a wanted ad for the management of dew there e-e this is me i think the sanctions are very important in order to save the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, and if ukraine returns it to control, it will make it easier for ukraine to pass the heating season of 22-23

years, which we must not forget. during this most difficult time in the history of ukrainian independence, well, first of all against the recommendations that are given to us by the ministry of energy and the local authorities regarding thrift, which is not a matter of economics and what is to be understood. it’s just that a lot of resources are involved in all this, and we should on our part, we should also make certain efforts, vladimir. i think that we need to remember our army and our soldiers first of all, because they will primarily determine how we spend the heating season, how much they will be able to free the territories and ensure the security of the state that's why we need to think about them and already provide them with warm clothes for the winter, which means everything

necessary for our soldiers to be comfortable in the winter period. svyatoslav. i would say that if your house has synthetic heating systems you can hope that there will be some actions from the side of the city, the city will try to restore and supply these individual functions, if you have a system of their heating that is not individual, then the city is deprived of any tools to help you, so it remains in your hands in order to simulate the situation as it will develop just turn it off in the morning, turn off the electricity and just look at how you feel, how your life will turn out, you have an electric stove, you have electric pumps, you will also have a third one. day begins to hang up the phones and you will feel how it will be like this, just simulate this situation for yourself, and we thank you very much, our speaker, who was with us, this ihor petrenko, political scientist volodymyr

melnychenko, director of energy programs of the razumkov center and svyatoslav pavlyuk, executive director of energy- efficient cities of ukraine on september 3 day 6 ukraine is hard-working oh in ukraine and volunteers everything is possible la la la la everything will find everyone they will feed all the tails they will save the house they will give a gift for airplanes they will collect for doctors they will help they sing a lullaby, they equip the foresters, they equip everyone , they hug glory to ukraine to the whole world, ukraine is glorified to the volunteer family, there is no translation all ukraine thanks you