it's true, well, by the way, it says a lot about alla pugacheva, who remains faithful to her idea of ​​how people behave in such situations, and it says a lot about russia. all her life and a pop singer, so is it some kind of strange society or should she take on such a place that politicians should generally take, the truth is to go there to some north-east, free hostages through her husband, express solidarity with ukrainians, well that is, to do everything in order to say that the russians in ukraine are not what you think, but pugacheva came, so everything is fine, then questions arise, why do they hate them so much, and we can talk a lot about khrushchev and gorbachev

? connected with khrushchev or with gorbachev, which will be bloody about khrushchev, you can talk about the repressions in ukraine, about novocherkassk, about the shooting of the budapest uprising, or the hungarian uprising , gorbachev is vilnius, baku is tbilisi, well it is obvious that he gave these orders. well, who could give that the army by itself runs and kills people with sapper shovels, as it was in tbilisi . well, it does not happen, but it should not have caused such irritation in brezhnev in relation to khrushchev and putin in relation to gorbachev, it means that there is something different and different - it is clear that khrushchev clearly said that stalin was a thief and began a thaw , that is, people began to breathe more freely, a whole layer of the so-called sixties was formed, who, by the way, in 20 years will break through the reforms in gorbachev, gorbachev also gave people the opportunity to breathe more freely, that is, the loosening of the nuts began. it is

obvious that anya khrushchev and anya gorbachev absolutely did not know what they were going to do with their course, for a change, they understood that changes were needed, i once wanted such changes in order to stay in power together with the party, yes there are no chenzosophenias, but you understand that clean air is harmful for this system, just when clean air rushes into such a suffocating atmosphere . it turns out that everything is pouring out. i would say with convulsive reforms i could have brought them to collapse earlier, they just did n't have time to get rid of gorbachev, i remember how they wanted to, i remember how at the last congress of the cpsu, i think i stood next to the marshals of the soviet union and marshal mykola ogarkov the former chief of the general

staff of the armed forces of the soviet union speaks simply loudly. i'm standing here. well, they're probably talking to each other, at least holding on to yeltsin, but he's the same one who will destroy everything, bastard, everything. well, when you see people in vashevsky's ranks, marshal the military district at least, you understand how they hate him, they hated him, but they were afraid, they were afraid simply as symbols of power and they couldn't get rid of him, they already wanted to, they just didn't have time, well, if they didn't want to, that's why there was this august coup, were you gorbachev himself informed about it or not was he himself entangled in his own intrigues, only the future will tell, but the main thing is that they tried at the last moment to do with gorbachev what they did with khrushchev, but they did not have time, the train had already left, they were not consolidated so much i

i constantly hear from russians that we should be grateful to gorbachev for the fact that he gave us freedom, well, freedom. yes, yes, they don’t give us water. you understand. gorbachev created conditions that were used by people in very different ways. and not just people, but nations, let’s say there, the soviet jews simply packed their bags and went to israel. it was their opportunity. but they did not start fighting for russian peace, mostly they understood where their place was in this situation. ukrainians or estonians or georgians or azerbaijanis and armenians and so on understood that they can create states. gorbachev did not

want this, he did not give this chance, on the contrary, he said that the union should be renewed, or was the union just caught , he was a supporter of this until the last day of his life, gorbachev recently had the opportunity to create a state . he gave a chance in the situation of changes in the soviet union , its weakening to make a choice for us. we made this choice, and the russians did not use any of the chances that we added to the era, so today i see a scene where the vingalskyi expresses his condolences to the daughter of irina gorbacheva, and it was such a farewell to people who simply understood that they lost a chance, here lies a person who, in principle, was not a chance in itself, but created conditions for them so that they had a chance and they lost it all collectively. it was a

tragic scene. to be honest, tragic because, let's say, gorbachev really played his historical the role is like a myth, without even imagining it, sometimes the child does not imagine the consequences of his actions, so if here this is a wheel, he was, by and large, a big child from the point of view of understanding political processes, and even you know well, i can’t seemed even then in the 90s, one cannot help but understand that if you say that people can tell the truth, then they will tell the truth about you and your party and about your government and the rest, you can't dose the truth afterwards . such an idea is cool it's not freedom of speech glasnost - this is glasnost, we are allowed to speak more, but there was a law on the media, you know about the law

on the press, in which the previous censorship was abolished. i remember the memories of one of my colleagues who after that brought a magazine to the printing house there the director of this printing house says what? where is this censor stamp? you don’t have a censor stamp there in the center. it’s all over and he calls the first secretary of the moscow city party. he says that it can be printed . before there was this law of ukraine, for a moment i wrote an article , printed it, and at ten in the morning i had a very small chance that this article about the events that people saw on tv would be published on tuesday if i wrote it on monday, because it had to pass censor at some point the censors just started working faster no at some point i spoke with the

ct scanner i am very sorry i am here at the congress of the action and it was of course the deputies met the first secretary of the central committee of the communist party of ukraine stanislav hurenko or scriabin's friend volodymyr ivashko there or the head the ideological department of leonid kravchuk, they read this article, i can give you the phone, they are there , you can detain, this is the center, the secretary of the central committee of the party has already seen it, what else do you need? well, they took we exactly read leonid makarovich leonid makarovich read so i forced him to listen to it and then they went to violate the law, they simply called the sensor and said that leonid makarovich read the article and caesar said it was being printed, but it could be done with one report from one place once and that of course, when i think about all this, i

sometimes even wonder why i was doing this at all, you know, i interviewed academician andriy sakharov, the last interview, this interview was covered by all the newspapers of the world because it was the last of those testaments as a certain church, it was on the front pages, we were all over it in different places, but it was an interview with the sakhara academy for the youth of ukraine. i couldn't just print it like that, i went to the head of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, valentina shevchenko , and i didn't have an interview in latin i am akademika sakharova, but you know that the censors won't let me pass, and he died. you can't give this interview in two. in three days, it will be effective. she said for a week. i'm not a big fan of akademika sakharova. i understand, but he died. he's a colleague of yours. deputy, you can help me out. please give me an interview. chairman of the verkhovna rada of ukraine and we will do it as a

bloc. semejna well, well, vitalik, well, well, i'll go to meet you and we and i worked like that, it's great journalism inside out. and then when i think about gorbachev and the interview with gorbachev. by the way, there was one of those materials that could be given immediately, so i took he has an interview for the ukrainian press, that's why oleg says that on wednesday she is on thursday morning already it is on wednesday. in the evening, i think they were broadcast on radio stations on thursday. there was gas in the morning . fortunately, gorbachev looks like a hansek - it's a slipper. well, there was no one capable of censoring him what did i ask him mykhailo serhiyovych and such a thing i should contact the editor he told me what the editor what i realized here was that i said something

stupid to him because well, there was no one else there. when i mention this with all my obvious claims to gorbachev, i once told him that we were no longer the president, we were on some tv program in moscow and i told him, you know mykhailo serhiyevich, to be honest, i am proud that you were my president. i am very glad that you are not my president. now these are two such moments, but that is, perfectly aware of everything, i, along with this, simply remember what happened before this, before this, i remember how we saw the first text in the komsomolskaya pravda newspaper, where a person simply wrote that his or some strange people they cannot live with us to exchange thoughts with himself that his daughter is 18 years old

and she is afraid that if she says more frankly, the kgb will come after her and it was all true, but we read it in the newspaper, god, it might be written in the newspaper that gorbachev came here to lviv, he used to go here, so that means he never talked to people, no general secretary of any party, he didn't come to lviv , you know, he didn't come to many cities like gorbachev, he didn't understand much because he visited, people were surprised because he a man of stavropol, in essence, it turns out that ukrainians really want independence, it cannot be , it turns out that lithuanians want independence, but he talked to these people, he talked, well, that is, he was also able to speak, but at the same time, he was capable of discus. that is, this is so very contradictory, what is called a historical post, there are a lot of contradictions what i see are historical events, i understand the germans, i know, i saw once i was walking on the arbat in a panic

in moscow at 11:00 at night somewhere and i met a group of people who were happy walking in them, their faces were shining and i recognized the federal chancellor helm and tracks of the minister of the khanate of germany. it was the evening when they agreed on the unification of germany. i was also a witness to their reaction. well, of course, no german could even dream of the unification of germany, this must be understood, that is why the germans treat gorbachev like this, they lowered their flags because for them this is the only motherland, it became possible to withdraw troops from afghanistan, it became possible again, just as the afghans later took advantage of this opportunity, but they drove out the soviet troops and gorbachev went for it, the americans who lived

all the time there is a west under the threat of a nuclear strike, it must be understood that the soviet people did not understand this, they thought we had already measured whether they wanted russian wars well, now we know and they knew for sure that the russians want war, as we now know that gorbachev managed to stop it all to start some kind of dialogue between the west, this is also important for the west, we just look at it with our eyes, we see a person who did not want ukraine to become an independent state, but listen in russia . well, you are one of those politicians, i didn't want that. gorbachev didn't want that. as you can see, putin doesn't want that, but gorbachev couldn't prevent us from becoming independent. and maybe there is a contribution to this that on the day of our referendum, on december 1, 1991, he sat

for the kremlin table and gave an interview to zinovy ​​kulik in my colleague and convinced the ukrainians to stay, he did not want to or could not move the tanks to kyiv. we did not have the opportunity to discuss gorbachev after that, you know, you need to do this and that on the contrary. so what is here is, you know, this is just a story about history, and of course i will honestly tell you that if we talk about personality, he certainly looked more like a person a living person, despite the fact that it is clear that you are a person who came to the top of the party power, who was not

afraid to use force, but look at putin, some terrible person in the bunker is completely alone, some ghoul . look at them all, they are not certain at all that they are even capable of falling in love with someone. and i have seen gorbachev realize maksimivna more than once. and i have not seen such a couple. i have seen such people. well, i mean, it is very strange . the wife is in the first place, and the power is in the second place. he was infinitely in love with her. she was infinitely in love with him. it was very strange. they met there at the university, but she is a diligent ukrainian girl, and she

talked to him like that, you know, the ss professor, the son of a combine harvester, sergeevich didn’t go, that’s how it was, but it was very beautiful, kind of cute, again, i think that when there is something human in people, they they can't go on a global crime, you understand, they can act within their competence, the idea of ​​what power is, but they can't press a button, they can't send missiles to uh, someone's city, you can't say to restore order, that's it too it's obvious that this is a crime. i won't even be noticed . i talk about this role of gorbachev all the time and say. by the way, on the day of his resignation, i wrote an essay just then called the last emperor, in which i just said all this about how his national question was destroyed, how his car was destroyed er, but in any case, i remembered it too, you know, the possibility of a normal human attitude towards life, the lack of this

, i never thought that it is important, the lack of this distance, gorbachev was with everyone, there you are again, you know, well, i was 20 years old there he is typical of 670-year-old people, and yeltsin was uh with all of us, you never said a word to anyone, it seems to me, but it was a distance, you understand . you had a wall in front of the christmas tree, no. you saw yeltsin as a monument to gorbachev, no matter what he was for you are a living person who could be denied yeltsin could not be denied he simply became as red as a beet and that was the end of all discussions i remember i just think that i cannot sum up, you understand because that is because we can understand it only from a distance of 100- 150 years and we are contemporaries for for you gorbachev clearly, this is

already a person with er, to some extent, from the textbook, for me, this is just a person with whom i spent some time there in various situations and when gorbachev was in power, when he was not in power, but in in any case, not enough time has passed for us to understand it, we understand it as a matter of fact, let's say it as a matter of fact, now we see that modern russia hates this gorbachev and this khrushchev. this one broke the union, this one gave crimea to the bastard. well, that's the whole assessment, that's all they why do they talk about them? they love lenin if according to their logic he created ukraine in general and they hate ukraine it is for me he took all these lands he created it but he actually understood that you did not create ukraine lenin and stalin really collected land from them listen to the steel 680 million people interrupted, but he

is still a hero for them, because he collected their land, she is interested in human life and is interested in the earth, to which it is usually alien, if they change, you understand, they will change, then we will be able to discuss with the russians about the historical role of gorbachev in reality and the discussion that was supposed to take place if it was real , there was a russian journalist, i am a ukrainian journalist. we were supposed to talk about gorbachev because there is nothing to discuss about stalin or ivan the terrible, they are bandits, but gorbachev - this is where the discussion begins . i say, you know, gorbachev did not want ukraine to be an independent state, you say, but he created the conditions so that you could express your desire, which did not exist at that time with any party secretary, and here is the discussion then, but when you tell me that he collapsed the union, and i say, yes, he did not want an independent ukraine. this means that we continue to live in different worlds, that the russian

world is still a bit of peace, he is completely alien to us because he does not speak the same language, would you like to talk about the real the historical role of gorbachev, and they cannot give him objective reality, because this whole empire has already killed them. well, just for the moments of his rule, mr. vitaly, let's finally give what worries the media community now the first reading of the media law by the way, you talked about the relevant acts that existed under the soviet union as it was before, and here they are already joking about the fact that our national council is almost creating oversight with this media law in the event that it is not of course they will correct it before the second reading, we are talking about read read and as far as i understand, we are talking about certain wording that can be interpreted in two ways at some points, because of this there is a caveat that this law on media

may not correlate well with restrictions on russian content in russian well, all our quotas and language legislation are definitely but at the same time we understand that now we have to watch our hands because there is a very big danger that under the cover of this law that requires us to be a candidate for the european union we can get something not very pleasant and certainly not developing for ukrainian journalism, we have already familiarized ourselves with the draft law. i am sure that you should have analyzed those things, first we have to fulfill the requirements that should bring us closer to the status of a candidate for a member of the european union which has been given to us in advance. and it is absolutely obvious that if we pass a law that will violate european norms, we will be getting closer to being deprived of this status as a candidate for the

european union. when the hostilities are over, we will suddenly find ourselves in a completely different world. you want us to help you, please adhere to the norms of standards and therefore when they say that i do not read any laws that are being passed now for one simple reason, i am determined from this point of view ktp i believe that the task of any political elite is to prevent a military conflict. i believe that a military conflict is actually allowed . that is, it is not the level of reaction that will not allow the aggressor to start. this is the bankruptcy of any political elite. it occurred on february 24, 2022 . i am not interested in the level of someone's e-e popularity, i am absolutely not interested

in the level of support for any individual politician or not a politician well, i think that all this is the level of support for the military no not the military state people support institutions, they want to have a legitimate president, a legitimate verkhovna rada, a legitimate government , and for the government, the president of the government of the verkhovna rada , to work for the needs of the armed forces in society. it's true. what would i like, i'm not sure. what do all ukrainians want? do they even distinguish between an institution? to be honest why what is the level of support for such an institution determined by when the war will end, we do not know when it can happen in any case it is clear that this may be a long conflict, but it is clear that at that time it will be a long conflict, any conflict, there will be a hot phase, there will be no political process and it does not matter much what the law will look like, it will matter a lot what will happen the next day after the

end of hostilities, let's say after the end of hostilities, the war may end in victory, an armistice may end end with anything it's him, we just hope that it will be a victory but we have an enemy who is also determined to win his victory, which should consist in the fact that he occupies as the most powerful and the best will destroy our entire state and this enemy attacked us, bankruptcy will be a defeat for him, because if the aggressor attacks, then for his political elite, bankruptcy is such a defeat that is perceived by society between god, this is also important, this is also important, we must not forget the next first peace day let's say peace day, after the victory, the entire political landscape will change beyond recognition, and most of the people we see now on television screens will never see again, or we will see them as witnesses

witnesses at one or another trial , the reasons for which will be explained on february 24, but these trials will already be initiated by the new ukrainian government and to this new ukrainian government. our european allies and our american students should have all the questions, whether this new ukrainian government can be the old power in part of itself, of course, parts can in this political process can get their representatives of the current government and representatives of the opposition, it is obvious that the representative of the position can win win much more important to ronnie, the representatives of the current government also need to understand that after the end of the power war, the opposition usually changes - they change between places, even if they don't want it, but there will be new political forces, people from the front will come, new authorities will appear for those politicians who are currently in the political life, not everyone

will be able to stay in politics, no more than 10% of the existing ones will remain in politics. since our political elite was formed in 2019 at the expense of random people, we are we will not notice even a strong one, because these will be new faces again, but they have already been substantiated, as it was in the 14th year after the maidan, the new faces that passed the maidan are substantiated, and here we will be substantiated, new faces are not from a questionnaire on the internet, not from any acquaintances there, just in person a those who went through the war , now everything that is happening is largely an imitation of the political process, because in reality, in countries that are at war, there are no political processes, if there is a political process, some laws are heating up. someone thinks that these laws it is possible to implement some norms that will exist after the end of wartime, which means that this

person simply does not realize that he is simply writing a political sentence for himself. if these norms, eh, which you will not comply with european legislation, where is it a plus or not necessarily only political because it is absolutely important that the new government, which will be formed as a result of the peace process, will try to legitimize itself at the expense of real punishment of people whom it will consider responsible for what happened on february 24 there will be special investigation commissions, documents will be published , minutes and meetings will be published, we are already hearing from ukrainian officials such as secretary renbosch, the secretary, he was in the 19th year after the paris meeting, he said that he was ready, i also said after the paris meeting that this would be the situation that there will be no more meetings between putin and zelensky, that it is necessary to prepare for a confrontation, but for most officials of the government at the time, this was considered completely inappropriate. so there were people which cylinders will i support? it means that it will be necessary to understand which of these people

supported my line. aggression will be met by a personal political one, first of all, that is why i would advise all ukrainian politicians who currently exist in political life to prepare for this greatest test of ukrainian fighters. the main test is to free the country from the invader and after they win the victory, the trial of judgment day will begin for ukrainian politicians, who prepared the country for february 24, under what circumstances, who was aware of the danger, who made some decisions, where is the signature, where is the decision, where is the transcript, where is the opportunity to defend myself, i would not be preparing for political process and to the process of protecting one's own reputation and one's own

future. this means that at least now there is no need to make new mistakes if everything that could be done has already been done. that's all i can say thank you this was vitaliy portnikov and the saturday political club my name is khrystyna yatskiv at this point it is probably time to say goodbye to our viewers thank you, we pass the word on to the news and i think we will have iryna kovaliy present literally in a few moments