and traveling political technologist expert of the ukrainian center for social development and a little news anna lena berbuk in velyka dymerka promised further help with demining yes in oleshka says we will watch an interesting interview everyone we invite you to sit closer our colleague andriy yanitsky talked with british lawyer jeffrey nison was a prosecutor in the case of the former president of yugoslavia svoboda milosevic, who was accused of war crimes, genocide, torture and murder a conversation with our andrii yanitsky right now on sts, the goal will be in 25 20 20 15 i want to drive this fool out of our land 5 3 2

fire wild creatures are not able to choose anything else and we in ukraine like to choose everything even if it is insurance on hotline finance hotline finance , insurance, of course, online after two rounds carpathians in the leaders of the tournament table during this time, the lviv team did not concede a single goal, will the carpathians be able to keep their goal impregnable in the match against chernivtsi bukovyna, or will they be able to beat the bukovinians to stay in the leaders of the tournament table we will find out already this sunday, september 11, watch football together with the title sponsor of the karpaty football club and the sponsor of the show - the bank live

broadcast of the match karpaty lviv bukovyna chernivtsi on youtube channel expresso pre-match studio starts at 4:30 p.m. match starts at 5:00 p.m. oh in ukraine and volunteers everything is possible, death to the enemies of ukraine , everything will be found, everyone will be fed, all the tails will be saved, they will be given gifts for airplanes, they will collect for the doctors, they will help the doctors, they will sing a lullaby, they will sing to the foresters, they will equip everyone, they will hug glory to ukraine on the whole world glorifies ukraine for the volunteer kind, there is no translation. all of ukraine thanks you in the cockpits of airplanes behind the monitors of radar stations at

the control points of anti-aircraft missile systems at a thousand combat positions throughout the territory of our country, they bring victory closer every day. glory to the air force of the armed forces of ukraine, i congratulate the tv channel andriy yanitsky this espresso today we have an extraordinary interview with a guest on the tv channel sir geoffrey nice, he has been practicing law since 1971 and worked at the international tribunal for of the former yugoslavia and he was a prosecutor in the trial of nadsloboda nam-melošević, the former president of serbia, a large part of his work is devoted to the cases of the permanent international criminal court in sudan, kenya, or the left. people can't get to any international

court so someone has to help them london's time times newspaper described sir geoffrey as one of the leading lawyers of his generation and today he is in our studio exclusive on espresso tv congratulations , thank you for your concern and for your indifference to the suffering of ukrainians, as far as i know, you are here as a private person with the support of a government organization, the institute of war and peace coverage, and you do not represent any official state organization so what motivates you to be here why is it so important to you in general this topic is of particular interest to me from time to time i have been asked to comment on it on the internet and also maybe because i can submit my ideas to the institute

coverage of war and peace for their consideration so i am going to improve my knowledge the issue of war is very important because this war is one of the biggest in europe since the second world war this conflict could turn out to be very serious and depending on how it ends will depend on whether someone succeeds in like putin to repeat something similar. but if we don't do it, another step will soon be taken on the way to a potential disaster. many ukrainians don't believe in justice and seek revenge. how to convince people that justice possible at first revenge is unlikely to bring benefits in the long term justice depends on what you understand by international justice how did this start relatively

recently at the end of the 19th century when the geneva and hague conventions came into force they dealt with war crimes there were several cases after the first world war but mainly after the second , the cases initiated in yugoslavia and rwanda in 1993-94 can be considered experimental, so we are still in the process and this is quite a large-scale topic the correct ways of solving which are still at the stage of approbation, what is meant by justice is probably the object of research, if you ask your victims about justice, they will most likely say that they want someone to be convicted or even executed, although this is not the case today relevant. if you ask others what justice means to them, they can say that the most important aspect of justice is

that the leadership of an illegal country should be brought to justice, and i believe that now more than ever, it is important to move fokusna under the leadership's reporting. if this happens, it will be easier for ukraine to hide ahead so that our viewers understand that war is every time murders and suffering of citizens, but there are certain rules for waging war and some things are prohibited at the international level. please tell me that soldiers can what to do? it will not be possible to answer succinctly. you can get information from the international committee of the red cross, but it is worth starting with the geneva and hague conventions, which prescribe methods the treatment of civilians and prisoners of war, as well as what weapons can and cannot be used at the

end of the first world war, the term crimes against humanity appeared, there are also war crimes according to violations of various statutes, and after the second world war, the convention on the prevention of the crime of genocide appeared, which recognizes genocide crime all these potentially criminal acts are usually dealt with by modern international criminal courts this is one way of doing justice if you manage to bring people to court and do justice to them, all modern courts require that they try a person and not a state, the only way to judge a state is the international court of justice for violation of treaties and as i have already mentioned, one of the most famous treaties is the convention on the prevention of the crime of genocide, but to bring a state to the international court of justice is very it was difficult, it was problematic even in the

milošević case, in the case of milošević, the defendant was not the state, and therefore it was a matter of international justice. it was a special tribunal and a person stood before the court. and he died without waiting for the verdict, so we do not know whether genocide would have been proven, genocide is a specific crime, it was not considered a crime, but a sociological concept proposed by raphael lemkin, a student of lviv university, who heroically expressed his concern about the murders of armenians during the first world war, he proved the idea that there should be some way to stop such things by law after he failed to get genocide recognized as a crime at the nuremberg trials he appealed to the newly created united

nations, the convention applies to states, but now genocide is recognized as a crime in many statutes around the world, which threatens people who violate the international rules of warfare and which courts consider these cases, in particular in relation to our case, uh, frozentle in overcapes your cases on can now be tried by your own courts and i believe that you also have or give the power to try people in absentia also the international criminal court the jurisdiction of such a court is a little difficult, but it does not matter because the territory of ukraine falls under it, in addition, there is the international court of the united nations and its jurisdiction was activated by russia, which in a special way initiated the case against ukraine under the convention on the prevention of the crime of

genocide, and ukraine responded to this and actually achieved a fairly successful result in judicial opinions this can also be considered an online war or is it easier to prove crimes in our time with the help of facebook and youtube facebook of course we must be completely realistic about modern evidence and its collection is extremely important and the institute of war and peace coverage would not forgive me if i did not say that it is important to ensure the proper collection and registration of evidence so that if the evidence is presented in court, the witness can say that it happened that day, here is the evidence that i have whether it's a photo or something from the media or something else i saw it and that's exactly what happened so it has to be properly

proven evidence is what people perceive as evidence sufficient to prove something and for that you definitely need judges and lawyers which take a lot of time and money. you can ask a citizen on the street. what do you need to prove something, so it's time to start considering such lawsuits as soon as possible, keeping in mind the very strict provisions of the declaration of human rights of the european convention on the standards of evidence that should be applied to all a any state must be punished for its crimes if we talk about journalists, what is their role can we be more useful for prosecutors and lawyers of course journalists are extremely important and very useful and i already mentioned it in the program

this morning and it may be appropriate to add one more thing going back to the previous question in 1995 in the eighth there was an event called the silver rush the worst massacre in europe since the second world war 8,000 people were killed then the trials one after the other lasted 25 years in september or october 1995. the new york times covered the events very carefully at the time. we should never underestimate journalists because they are certainly very important especially when it comes to their investigation, one of the problems with war crimes trials is that most of the media want them, they don't tend to criticize , whereas, for example, the institute of war and

peace coverage expressed some criticism, but very few mass media properly criticized what was happening on the yugoslav tribunal because they all wanted everything to succeed, so journalists should spread the accurate story , penetrate and see where bad decisions are made because they are made by prosecutors who defend and even judges to expose it and clean up the system but i think that the problem that i mentioned earlier that you can face and that is very difficult for journalists to deal with is that the longer a conflict goes on like in world war ii, although i was not the longer the conflict lasts, the more everyone gets used to seeing atrocities and hearing

about them, and they are less worried about them. the results of the court proceedings will depend on whether we will finally stop such a reality or allow someone else to repeat it. i believe that the current work of military journalists should include a detailed report, however, what is happening on the front lines and also in people's homes when bombs are dropped on apartment buildings, etc. all this should be documented, they should find out how can it be proven that the fault for all this lies with the command of various links up to the very top, but for media of different levels, i mean from intellectual to more popular media as well

it is important to demonstrate this and emphasize the importance for the whole world in particular why the risks associated with the war and its solution are so great journalism - this is an extremely important profession in the world and also extremely difficult i want to tell you a story about some evidence that i presented to the yugoslav tribunal we were extremely careful about securing evidence suppliers, a journalist recently told me that our supplier's brother was tracked down and killed, the difficult point is the extreme responsibility of finding and protecting suppliers

evidence in an era when it is very easy for us to criticize politicians and we all do it perhaps deservedly perhaps justifying and not least because they do not necessarily give us the fairest description of what is happening therefore the role of the journalist is of the highest degree of importance do you really believe that we we can bring to justice not only russian soldiers or generals, but also vladimir putin himself. it depends on the international community. and this is where it is likely to fail ukraine. on the horizon at a time when the members of the coalition that supports ukraine and feel discomfort from the rising prices of oil and gas will be more and more

tempted to support a compromise. society has recognized that the only value of impeachment trials is deterrence. of significant importance. yes, it will bring some satisfaction to those who suffered, perhaps great satisfaction, but the only real value will be that after such a process, the next person who would be tempted to do something like this will be stopped, so in my opinion, taking into account the real risk , since this war tells us about the real risk of nuclear of the conflict is vital. it is important that the international community unites and speaks exclusively

in the language of the sanctions imposed on russia, in particular that there will be no concessions and that they will continue until until putin is brought before the court and therefore the yugoslav tribunal was in many ways a reflection of the fact that it was not possible to do this, the international community through the united nations created the yugoslav tribunal and then transferred the powers of arrest to the prosecutor because they had no powers, they had no police they had to rely on the countries with which they cooperate and the international community did not really interfere much, maybe it would be better if the representatives of the yugoslav tribunal said thank you for your trust but you should arrest this person, otherwise we will not try him, well, now you have a mechanism, a mechanism of sanctions, sanctions have affected russia very much, and

if the international community had the courage , they would announce that the sanctions will last until you extradite him, but i doubt that they will do it, although everything would be correct if we draw parallels with the trial of milosevic and possibly the future trial of putin . proving genocide, which is very difficult, it would be much better to focus on because it is much easier and clearer to prove crimes against humanity and war crimes, take it and prove it and maybe the time will come when insiders will appear who will provide documents, reports or anything that will

prove that the mental state putin was such that he wanted to kill ukrainians simply because they are ukrainians. if this happens, it will be possible to prove genocide, but the really great lesson in a criminal case is to realize that you can prove and what is important. so if you ask me this question, i think that one of the things that should be done is excessive efforts to prove genocide, having a lot of evidence of everything else, eh . no he can be tried now you have a lot of evidence and therefore convincing in particular the destruction of non-military targets and it is absolutely obvious that he knew about it from the second day because he

saw it on tv like the rest of us is there any evidence that he came out publicly stating i understand that this is an important mistake, i will stop my people, bring them home and punish them properly. there was no, there was no mention of it, instead, the same thing went on for months, and it is also unreasonable to assume that his military can do what they want and that they just want to commit crimes against the civilian population entirely can you see that this is not true now you don't need much evidence to prove it thank you jeffrey for this interview and for our viewers i remind you that with us was jeffrey nice who is a lawyer engaged in legal activities since 1971 worked in international tribunal for the former yugoslavia and was a prosecutor in the trial of sloboda, the

slanderous former president of serbia. the times of london named jeffrey one of the leading lawyers of his generation . similar trials against vladimir putin and the involvement of all human rights defenders in him is a slight case - he is from moscow, but for moscow municipal deputies demand putin to resign the deputies emphasize that the aggressive rhetoric of putin and his subordinates rejected russia in the cold war era, that the doubling of gdp did not take place, the minimum wage did not increase to the declared indicators, intelligent and able-bodied people leave russia en masse, and there is no promised stability, therefore the lomonosov district

council asks the president of russia to resign your views, your management model is hopelessly outdated and hinders the development of russia and its human potential, municipal deputies write, of course, putin is not up to it reacts, but the signal is extremely significant, it is not for nothing , taking into account the fact that in russia, so to speak, the socio-political life is completely under the control of the special services, but in any case there were brave people and the second moment that such an opportunity appeared and still important information was transferred to south, kadyrov troops stay away from the front line. this is reported by the operational command of the south, our native intelligence records the transfer of kadyrov troops to the south by russia, but they are , so to speak, removed from direct combat of collisions, this overturning is recorded, but again,

it's a tick-tock, the troops probably took the wrong lens with them for filming their achievements, they keep quite far away, realizing the power of our fire control, which is spread completely along the right bank of the dnieper and reaches a little on the left bank, and they try to hold on then nataliya humenyuk, head of the united coordination press center of the defense forces of the south, told to watch with you this very touching video of our defenders singing the national anthem of ukraine. before the counterattack, let's look at ukraine and the glory of ukraine is once again striving to

liberate our mountains, an extremely inspiring video , we understand that the battles continue, and the story of the battles is , so to speak, not only about elevation. at a price, we get every centimeter of our land, this is the life of our defenders, let's not forget about it and very discreetly rejoice at the informational analytical marathon of the espresso tv channel, we are adding tetyana kozachenko, a lawyer the director of the lustration department at the ministry of justice of ukraine in the 14th and 16th years

himself glory to ukraine p tatyana glory to the heroes congratulations to all yes, we understand that in addition to the battles on the immediate front there is also the so-called internal front and despite the battles we must not forget about precisely this situation well, accordingly, today there was information from our prime minister denys shmygal, so that preparations are being made to reauthorize a part of the oligarchy, so to speak, and in general, a possible complete elimination from of their property in ukraine of russian oligarchs i would like to ask you how do you assess the dynamics of such processes, the dynamics of those processes are extremely important, but at the moment too little information is revealed about how this will be implemented, first of all, people must understand, they must remember the history of how

wars took place and how could there be compensation while the war is going on and while there is russia, while there is no peace treaty or any capitulation , it will not be possible to receive a rapper, for example, reparations what are the possible compensations, the first is reparations, this is when a country admits that it is wrong due to the power of capitulation or a peace treaty, the pressure of other countries, it retreats and concludes an agreement, and after this agreement pays out, compensates for the damage it caused, and this happens in financial terms it can be at the expense of money, or it can be at the expense of , in particular, the property of assets of other ways, that is, the first way is reparations, but for this you actually need the consent of russia, what are the reasons for the pressure of surrender, as i said, or is it a peace treaty the following ways are already different - this is in fact the satisfaction

of needs due to the confiscation of the property of the aggressor country and its state institutions, this means, for example, the central bank of russia or some other companies where the state acts as a one hundred percent beneficiary, that is, the owner, if, for example, you take a bank with russia as its beneficiary there is a central bank of russia, it is clear that it is actually completely managed by the government of the russian federation, all these banks have their branches, have assets in different countries, that is, at the expense of money, the property of these assets it is possible to impose an arrest and compensate for the damage caused on the territory of ukraine, and the third way is the are and confiscation of the property of russian oligarchs, it

is there and difficult. or other persons and were caused by ter- to ukraine and, accordingly, can be satisfied at the expense of their property . improved and not implemented and not regulated mechanisms by which it can be implemented or the decision of the national security and defense council well, this may be enough to at least start a certain movement yes, we understand well, we received information that a couple of hotel oligarchs were arrested in fact, that case law would have managed to access the rest of that considerable property, we understand how much they laundered in ukraine. there is a difference here