er communism of that soviet system which told that everything was fine but in fact committed a lot of grave and terrible crimes against er humanity will the world finally understand and will it also be condemned and that communism and racism as its continuation i work in the project of international ukraine i know that our project and many human rights organizations in ukraine are working on documenting war crimes. it is very important that we do not allow all these crimes to be put on the brakes. are doing in ukraine with our people, it must be scrupulously documented and here i want

to appeal to everyone who sees this broadcast, people, if you were witnesses or victims of crimes , please do not be silent. these facts are professionals in ukraine who will not harm you, you can contact our project, i guarantee that it will not be worse for you, but we must put an end to it together, we must bring them to justice , and why did i start talking about our motivation because it is our project that not only documents but also aims the first legal one is to initiate lawsuits in international institutions, to involve international humanitarian missions in this situation, so that the world does not forgive and forget, and it is necessary to prove it, not just to tell emotionally, but

to prove it with facts and documents. well, how do you know in court that the guilt the court recognized that it must be concretely substantiated and proven, and in our project, not only ukrainian actors work, but also international experts, lawyers, very powerful lawyers who have passed the way in other wars, and military correspondents and in syria and in serbia and in other hot spots, and a team of ukrainian media workers from the laboratory of public interest journalism is working, so i hope that the huge number of crimes committed in ukraine will not be forgotten now and will not come down on the brakes of the russians, and we have to push it and

bring it to logical end or look at how many of them there are over the last decades, russia initiated and only the troubles of grief made two chechen georgian war e-e syria this is to write only the last and others and that and in ukraine since 2014 is going war, we just somehow, well, we didn't see it, we didn't hear that it was called that, how many crimes did they commit in the east and in the occupied crimea so far, they are not ongoing, do you actually remember when we talk about these crimes, war crimes, well, we mentioned them here in the conversation and the second world war and the germans, but i would like to say that the germans, perhaps pedantically, but relied on a very false pseudo-scientific theory of

racial advantages and racial frequency, that is, at least it had a rational basis, those sometimes terrible crimes that they committed primarily against jews and when we are faced with crimes by the russians. they have a different nature. there is very little. it seems rational to me, how do you explain why the russians always stand out for these terrible crimes and mass rapes, looting and murder of the civilian population, sometimes just for fun. how does it appear? from the side, well, you know from my life experience, all the intelligence of the russians disappeared when it came to the independence of ukraine, and this surprised me even from childhood and infuriated me that our language was not like theirs

post office, you nod your tongue, you speak in a normal language, well, that is, i see that, well, if it is some kind of savagery , and if we take history and history, historical facts, then well, this is a method, first of all, to go to war against neighbors, a method of distracting citizens from those problems and rampant corruption that exists in russia itself, and if we look at all these fakes about there, as if there is a civilizational role of them in the history of other nations, in fact, these are all lies, let's call things by their names and historical fakes, in fact, if we leave now of any big city there, moscow, peter, in

the russian hinterland, well, there, as in the last century , there is no gas, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. to their country and er to er suppress and prevent mass er 20th protests within the state they attack others and bombard them well here here the role of propaganda is great and it tries to make life in other countries as unbearable as in its own the country to water and their citizens were not so envious that somewhere there someone lives better. when they came to ukraine, what we saw was that they took toilets from houses, terrible

stories, carpets. what kind of people in our country were already taken away from some dachas as something that had already served its time at home, let it be there in the dacha even this was taken away . thank you, mrs. nataliya, for the conversation. thank you for your responses. thank you for what you are doing . did uh, russians, contact the organization she is in. i think google will help you , nataliya bimbiraite, just type in the search and you will find out for sure. good morning, i don't know. they probably caught a bit of our conversation with mrs. natalya. the russians are going to hold their pseudo

-referendums. it's either in april, then in may, or in september. it's the end of october. what's the date? it appears somewhere around october, and in november, november 4, because it is like a russian day of national unity , after what they do to people, how they kill them, how they abuse them, do they really believe that these people are under fear of death, under fear of whatever the russians tell them, they will go and vote for you if there was russia in the kherson region, in particular, good day, well, look, actually, the principles of all the votes that take place in the soviet union of the modern russian federation were formulated at the time and

here's the guy who said it doesn't matter how they vote carefully, how they count, so for russians, the main thing is not how it will actually happen, what result will be demonstrated by these or other events that they organize, the main thing is the picture, the picture of the turnout, the picture of the people standing in the queues and so on, because what he in principle, it was possible to do in 2014 in the crimea, e.e., in certain areas of the donetsk , luhansk regions, that is, these queues. the level of collaboration is not as high as the russians expected, and that is why people resort to intimidating people, and the

russian military conducts house-to -house raids, hinting that well, they do not hint, but directly say that when a referendum is announced, everyone must come and those who do not come to those will come home with a page and cheat the machine, which means they will be forced to put a tick or a plus sign on the spot that's all and that's why these pseudo-referendum dates are being postponed all the time, we can to assume the reasons for the constant postponement of these pseudo-referendums, first of all, these are organizational difficulties, because this time ukraine was institutionally better prepared for such extreme things as russian invasions, and one of the first e-e steps of our state was the closing of the registers, in particular the register of russian voters, there is no access to the register and that's why they don't really know who the lists of people who

live in populated areas by name and address are registered to certain precincts, this is the first and the second, as i already said, it's low level collaborationism is lower than they expected, and they can’t, they have problems. even now, create a picture for the fact that they are doing a great job of passporting the population there. that is, there is already a direct bribe of 10,000 rubles, they give people out and so on, but they still can’t do it the shot is so beautiful for television that there are crowds of people running with joy. that is, it is literally there. well, they are gathering there, well, 50 at a time . i would like to clarify here that the russians differ in this case in order to create only a picture for the domestic consumer, first of all, what is the disagreement about the fact that there should be at least hints about the legitimacy of the referendum for the west, what

is important to them, they need to solve both tasks, simply which is more important for them, this is already a question, in fact, the domestic audience will eat any information that we will feed their television and the rest of the mass media. and as for the foreign audience, we can definitely see that now russia has lost significant tools of influence on the western audience, that is, the european audience and the us audience canada, australia, and so on, it is now trying to direct its main influence to the countries of latin america, the countries of africa , the countries of asia, and it is somewhat easier for them to work there, because there are no sanctions against their media, and there their propaganda falls on prepared ground. because there are anti-american sentiments, western sentiments, and the

society there is not very aware, in general, only ukraine and what is happening here. well, and as for the other complications, yes. an element of pressure, blackmail, raising rates, which is constantly used by russia in communication with the outside world, and there is one more important point that i must pay attention to, this is that, obviously, the final decision regarding the format, and it means that to do with the occupied territories. i understand that it was not adopted because the messages are voiced opposite to each other. some say that there will be a referendum, and then in parallel with this they say that it should not be held now, and then they say that a referendum should be held on the creation of some kind of regular hnr, well, at least in the spring , they said in kherson region that there will be a people's

republic, and then they forget about it and say that it is necessary to directly vote on joining russia. here are such things, that is, these apparently uncoordinated messages that are supposed to create such a certain white noise but conduct such an informational pump up the population that something will definitely happen and somehow create some expectations that russia will somehow reformat the map of europe november 4 - this is the russian day of national unity this unity, it still exists in russia, and let's say crimea, so they shouted that crimea is ours and convinced us that people in crimea are waiting for russia and now we see that housing prices are selling there too housing fell terribly and at

weddings you can hear a red viburnum, but then , er, all sorts of fines are issued to the parents of the bride and groom for singing er, the ukrainian insurgent song , is this unity still preserved, or has it already begun to waver a little and that day we don’t know what it will be like november 4, well, look, this is a holiday quite so artificial, in fact, this day of national unity, it was introduced in russia not so long ago, refers to the events of some dark time, which is absolutely not present in the public consciousness and in the historical memory of russians, it was, so to speak, the opposite of the seventh of november once a sitter to knead it a little there, well , as for national unity in russia, we

understand that any kind of national unity is very, very far away for russians, and in principle it is an imperial state and not, so to speak, democratic and non-national and such things as, for example, ukrainian patriotism, which they encounter here, and the huge number of horizontal connections between ukrainians, their willingness to help, it really surprises them very much, and what we see and the information we receive from the occupied territories and they really understand that ukrainians are fighting for ukraine because, for them, the state is putin, first of all, the state is putin and the symbol of the state is the leader of this state and him. they really think that ukrainians are fighting there for zelensky, did they fight for poroshenko before, because they say that for them this understanding of the homeland as their country as their state is not

clear to them, and therefore it is very, very difficult to talk about some kind of national unity or national unity. well, here are the first ones i don't know the bells that are on the russian national channels , well, the state channels, uh, there they started to sound something like that, there were different notes, they said, zaluzhny, that's it . that's what he said. chief, well, that is, this one and so on, this russian word flew out, well, it doesn’t matter who the admiration is, uh, some appeals, let’s come to some kind of political agreement and end this war, because we are going to lose it. space, and this is also some type of information, and then why are they there, or does the system itself not know how to react, how do you

think? well, in fact, their information space is totally controlled by the state, by the special services, although it is true that they may have some er, opposite lines of behavior, so to speak, given the fact that different communication channels can control competing, so to speak, towers of the kremlin, competing special services, but we can now see in the russian media that there is such animosity about the fact that the ukrainian army and the ukrainian state turned out not to be as weak as they thought, uh, and that's because they're not fighting with ukraine any more, they're fighting here with a collective measure, uh, a little bit, not with the entire nato bloc, and that our successes in the kharkiv region were them not by the effectiveness of the ukrainian command and

ukrainian planning and not by the quality and fighting spirit of the ukrainian armed forces and our defense forces in general, but by the fact that it seems to them here that it was all conceived and planned by some western curators , that is, they simply explain society in this way the reasons for the defeats of the russian army, which, as we know, is a friend in the world and invincible, and so on, but it turns out that she is no enemy in the world, that she can also run away, that she can carry leads, and therefore it is necessary to somehow explain it all to russian society and that's why we can see some seemingly complimentary things to our military command, but i still didn't advise getting excited about it, and moreover, as i already said, russian propaganda , russian television can explain anything to russians, and a russian they will believe it because they

have it. this faith is a manifestation of loyalty to putin and loyalty to the regime, and loyalty to the regime is a survival strategy in russia, so it is better not to think there, but to believe what they say on tv thank you, mr. serhiy serhiy zhukov, an employee of the center for strategic communications and information security, was with us, let's move on. olena shcherban , a lawyer at the anti-corruption center, is appearing on our airwaves in our marathon. and now let's talk about one former fugitive president, who... he ended up in russia, whom russia hoped to return to us, the naive probably thought that maybe even a part of ukrainians miss viktor fedorovych here, but nothing came of it , so, the european union did not become

to continue the sanctions and also in relation to his son, and one also remembers such a prosecutor general pshonka, whose surname became a characteristic of his style in the design of apartments pshonka-style. well, also his son artem. why did this actually happen? well, in fact, you have to understand that as of today, the lifting of these sanctions against viktor fedorovych, i will remind you, they were actually connected with the events of 2013-2014 after the revolution of dignity, the european union, many others of western countries such as switzerland, the united states imposed sanctions on ex-officials in the regime of viktor fedorovich yanukovych for their own sake and expected

certain results from ukraine. the fact is that the sanctions were imposed not only in connection with the actual events that took place on the maidan, but the sanctions had to to have some justification and the european union waited for a very long time from ukraine to present official accusations against yanukovych, first of all, for corruption, and that a lot of time has already come, but there are actually very few such accusations, and so it happened that the sanctions were lifted because there are no certain procedures and requirements for appeals, etc., and the sanctions cannot continue indefinitely, this must be understood, but the positive is that viktor yanukovych is now being imposed despite the fact that those sanctions have not been extended, other sanctions have already been imposed related to the invasion is russian to ukraine, he is a pensioner as

a person who actually contributed and took measures to ensure that this aggression took place, that is why he fell under other sanctions and will be under them, but here is a very important story. take away from this the process is a lesson for us as a state, because today the western world also imposes a lot of sanctions on the oligarchs of this regime, and it is necessary to understand that the sanction is a temporary measure and can be lifted, it is necessary to understand that in order for these sanctions not to be lifted in the future in relation to the russian oligarchs, we have today, as a state, we must work very intensively and demand not only sanctions, but also demand the recovery of these assets for the benefit of ukraine and western countries, we must work within the country to impose our own sanctions on these persons so that we do not have such a situation

as with yanukovych and his affairs. and actually prevent such a situation already in this case of russian aggression. by the way, about the return of assets so far. the amount that was managed to be returned from e.e. russia is actually russian assets in ukraine, and they are very significant. for decades, they own a lot of enterprises in ukraine, and i don't know of shopping and entertainment centers there, as well as sufficiently strategic ones related, for example, to the oil refining industry and so on. can we hope that these assets somehow will come back more actively, and in particular, how were you commenting on the fact that the scandalously famous ocean plaza shopping center seems to be preparing to resume its activities, in fact, to be honest, this is infuriating to me as a citizen as a lawyer, simply because i know that the actual owner of that

october plaza is probably a well-known rotherberg russian oligarch, we see that there are criminal cases against him in ukraine, but i know clearly that ukraine also introduced a new type of sanctions in the form of confiscation of assets, which actually could long ago to apply and force him to live in ocean plaza to work for ukraine and the armed forces today and not for the rotenberg oligarchs, despite the fact that we can prohibit the withdrawal of funds from profits there, all this is so for russia today, but this is not enough, we have to actually charge these assets are in favor of ukraine, there are tools for this, it is publicly known that the sanctions to block rothenberg's assets in ukraine were initiated on july 15. today, on september 15, the blocking sanctions have not even been imposed, not to mention the extension of this asset that is, today ukraine has a tool to do this

very well. that is, why this tool is not used. well, i have only one explanation so far . er, to negotiate with them and actually not use those tools, i will simply say that if we in ukraine do not take these assets, the western world will eventually ask us the question, tell me why we should give you the assets of russian oligarchs if you have them in your own country not take away that's all and an attempt to negotiate with the russian oligarchs at what level, well, that is, the president knows about it and it's hard for me to say at what level this is happening, but the actual decision to impose sanctions must be made by the national security and defense council, all the information is submitted there, it is headed by the president i don't i know, i can’t say whether

the president knows about it or not, but for some reason, i doubt that such negotiations of such a high level can be conducted in the country without the knowledge of the president, yes . and if they are conducted without the knowledge of the president, well then this also raises a big question. well, that's why we need to talk about it, emphasize it and demand it actually so that the existing mechanisms and tools work as they should. it's just as easy as that. i understand that the skymall shopping center works. and the estonian government repeatedly, the estonians, who, equivalent to their own gdp, help ukraine the most . first, the invasion of russian troops, they gave the largest percentage of their gdp to support the ukrainians, the largest percentage of their own they gave their equipment to the military, but at the same time,

the story of when one of the richest businessmen, estonian investors, i'm sorry , but they squeezed out the mall. where did he invest huge sums of money and then according to various schemes it ended up for 3 kopecks ? i am waiting until the end of the whole story, or for example, is this also a story about whether ukraine will finally start, uh, and bring some kind of order to love , in fact, i would really like to see the varnish because it was not for nothing that today we started the actual sanctions against yanukovych i will simply remind you that these e-e sanctions are being lifted today and we have no results, eight years have passed, there has been no verdict on corruption against viktor yanukovych, respectively, there are a number of assets of him and his henchmen today, which could also have worked for

ukraine for a long time, but have not been recovered. in the process of these various investigations, assets disappeared, sanctions were lifted . well, as a result, there is almost only mezhyhirya left, which is simply impossible to steal and which can be taken today, so today we have to work simply in a different way and because, as practice shows, only by working institutions, law enforcement agencies, justice in general. this is our main safeguard against the development of events as they are happening today in the russian federation. therefore, this is a key priority of the reform and reconstruction of the state, not even the funds, not even there, in fact, the construction and these are actually institutions, law enforcement institutes and judicial institutions that we as a people will believe in and that our international partners will believe in, and then we will definitely succeed in everything

thank you ms. elena, we hope that all ukrainians will understand the importance of this and the phrase that let's not now let's win the war . olena shcherban, a lawyer at the anti-corruption center, was also with us. well, the time is approaching, uh, the clock is about to strike 11, so this means that a fresh selection of news has already been prepared. what's new in the last hour anzhelika sezonenko, a story for you anzhelika i congratulate you for the word thank you colleagues what is it that mariupol residents are becoming more and more dissatisfied with the locals