first of all, those military alliances that are potentially possible on the territory of europe as an addition to us as an improvement of nato and so on, here we would like to see more progress, because in fact we are literally right now protecting europe from an influx from the east and i apologize, unfortunately i have to join this process because it is continuous with us and continues constantly, and therefore i have to leave. thank you for giving me the opportunity to be with you . thank you for participating in our broadcast. convener and activist of the euromaidan uh, is ms. ivanna still with us? i'm here, uh, ms. ivanna, we mentioned that in the last poll, andrii, you talked about what is now uh, in the president trust 71% uh, but

about such institutions as sapchina - whether there is a negative balance and trust, that is, people or 100 people who do not trust these institutions, and it is greater, for example, than what this also indicates, at least in general, we see that there is a fixed increase in trust in almost all all branches authorities with an exception of political parties, which is also a very interesting phenomenon . well, you know, i think that a-ah, you and i have a certain reflection of the information policy conducted by the state during a-ah the last er-e six months and more than six months, it is the result of certain to to a certain extent, and a-a information marathon in which representatives of a-a majority of political forces represented in the parliament are not present, and only the monomajority and the executive power of ukraine are present, so ah, the internet is walking, they are having a

good time, i don’t know for sure if we will try to recruit, tell me how we are better now to act like this yes, i'm sorry, i don't know what's with the communication a-a and therefore, that is, part of it is the result of information policy, and part of it is, i think the objective one is still connected with the fact that ukrainian citizens today, first of all, i hope for the armed forces the forces of ukraine and uh well, the armed forces of ukraine are the most important institution that the citizens of ukraine trust today and all the others, in my opinion, the institution included, for example, with the parliament of ukraine, should provide the needs

of our defenders as much as possible. not always a-a is well it is becoming a reality. even now, we will go through the process of discussing the ukrainian budget, and we will ensure that additional funds are redirected to our defenders. additional funds from the excise tax on fuel were used ah for roads, while, well, in our opinion, they should be used precisely for the defense capability of the country, strengthening the further defense capability of the country, these discussions are being conducted, but they only fall into the ukrainian society, and i think this is one of the reasons for why and how this trust in various institutions is developing, hmm, which are functioning in the state today,

but yes, what is this, this is such a game, so when will the connection be restored so that listen to mrs. ivan's opinion yes well, the fact that state institutions work in ukraine during the war is very important, by the way, for such organizations as uh international institutions like the organization of the united nations is a rather strange phenomenon because works already during a full-scale war in in ukraine, they could not find that uh well, that option of how to act and help a country in which all branches of government work during the war, they are not used to this, so i think that to some extent we are such a unique a-a case in the history of aid on the part of international institutions during

russia's full-scale aggression against ukraine. we would like to thank mrs. ivanna ivanna klympa for chairing the verkhovna rada committee on ukraine's integration into the european union, vice prime minister, who in 2016-2019 was e- they talked to us about our path to the european union, next, we will talk about the same day, but we will roll back a little. actually, 22 years have passed. but the perpetrators of the murder of georgiy gongadze have not been found and punished by the journalists, and the founder of the ukrainian pravda publication was kidnapped by a group of law enforcement officers on september 16, what is behind this, the head of the state from the rostrum of the parliament with his oleksandr moroz in november of the same year cited melnychuk's medicine as evidence, mass

protests soon began ukraine without kuchma, actually will there be an end to this in the gongadze case we'll talk later, but now let's recall everything that was found out in the 22 years after hygiengadze's disappearance, the founder of the online publication ukrainska pravda , georgy gongadze, was one of them. to a journalist, the murder of gongadze became a political earthquake for ukraine in november, the so-called tapes of mykola melnychenko were made public, the bodyguard of leonid kuchma, who secretly recorded the president's conversations on tapes kuchma, the head of his administration, volodymyr lytvyn , the minister of internal affairs, yuriy kravchenko, and the head of the sbu, leonid derkach, seem to be discussing gongadze's opposition activities and deciding what to do with him. in december, mass protests began in the capital, which turned into the action ukraine without kuchma

. in the spring of 2001, it was suppressed by direct killers . only after the orange revolution in 2005 were detained three experts of the department of external surveillance of the ministry of internal affairs valery koste, mykola protasov and oleksandr popovych sentenced to terms from 12 to 13 years in 2009, their leader, the ex-head of the department, oleksiy pugach, who confessed to the murder, was also detained. he received a life sentence as the mastermind of the murder . suicide with two shots to the head of the gongadze family, on the other hand, believes that the real perpetrators of the murder have not yet been named. all this time, the body of the journalist was in the morgue, because george's mother refused to recognize her son in him only because he was 15 and a half years old, on march 22, 2016, he was

buried in kyiv, why are you a difficult topic? it 's scary to think, er, just today i thought about what georgiy was at that time, he was 31 years old, he was still a young man, and when we we talk when i how when we talk, including about the geongadze, i always think about the fact that, well, about justice , does it really exist, or does it have to be somehow, or in general should it be said ? that, relatively speaking, chornovol is not there, but someone else is that, for example, georgy gongadze is gone, but in the end , for example, the kuchma family is one of the richest families in ukraine, and it is they who can collect the

same you and stand next to the current president, and kuchma is completely rehabilitated today, and there are many people who believe that i understand what is possible he was framed in this story, russia stood behind us from the very beginning, such versions exist, but i am talking about some simple, banal justice , do we still remember who really brought this country closer to europe, ukraine was getting closer to something better and for that he gave his life and should have served as an example, but some other people serve as an example, this is just a moral defect in me. whenever i think about the history of the gongadze case, which i had a certain relationship with in the future mass information institute, cooperating with reporters without borders, when the infection of taraschansky 's so-called body was going on. so, taras stetskyi, people's

deputy of ukraine for five convocations, is with us, and myroslava gongadze, the wife of georgy gugadze, and the leadership of the american office in eastern europe are with us gentlemen are joining in. we welcome you to our air , ms. miroslava. i don’t know if you heard my thoughts about justice or if you feel that justice in this case has somehow been decided, you know. i am now here in kyiv right next to the grave of george now there will be a commemorative action here, and you know that every year fewer and fewer people remember this case, and a generation has already grown up who, in fact , for whom, this case is a story for me and for for many of us, for you, in particular, this matter - this is today's issue for quite some time and i

woke up this morning here in kyiv and this is exactly what they wrote about. i wrote about the importance of justice in society because george died of drought 20 years ago and many other journalists died before that we knew very little about their deaths and never knew under what circumstances and who was to blame for their deaths, after that there were many victims of the revolution of dignity of the ukrainian war to defend their territories the east of ukraine is now ukrainian heroes also die and it is very important that this justice comes because society cannot move forward without understanding er without a sense of this er justice and understanding that er crimes are punished for any

crimes or for the most terrible crimes, such as murder or for corruption crimes, etc. and that's why i wrote just today that it is very important when we, when ukraine wins the war with russia, it is very important that we be able to win the internal war whether to rebuild this or to start to build this country from a new start from a new beginning or from a clean foundation because now we have this chance precisely all these sacrifices so that all these sacrifices will not be in vain for this society so in my case partial justice has come it took me 21 years of daily work in order for this to happen, very few people understand how difficult and how much your daily efforts were needed for this to happen. partial justice is

, and full justice, of course, i never received mr. taras. how did the gongadze case change ukraine as she influenced, including those young people, someone today may not know this matter well, somewhere, somehow , from two turns from the history textbook, well, for me and ukraine, who changed a lot, and this is true . knowing him is for me every time when such a date comes, it is such a little dense memory, from my point of view, george was just a light and a person, and the fact that justice in relation to him is already 22

years old has not been fully established, it is to a certain extent is the sentence is ukrainian law enforcement system well, you can say a lot, there are no witnesses, er, some died, some were removed, but neither for president yushchenko nor for president poroshenko yanukovych. established to the end, what role did moscow play there and what was the extent of responsibility of the president of the then president of ukraine to kuchyn, maybe danylovych will never be able to say because he probably knows of those who are alive now, and he knows the most, and he could spill a lot, unlike those witnesses who are no longer here. well, but

this is probably a matter of his conscience, which concerns uh, can the law enforcement system now all- to establish justice. here, unfortunately, i have big bags because it had to be done in hot pursuit at least well, at least with the academy of viktor andriyovych yushchenko unfortunately, this did not happen, at least to some extent justice is possible because, er, today the same medvedchuk example uh, because this is what the footage showed when medvedchuk was the head of president kuchma 's secretariat. it seems that in the case of gongadze, she also launched some processes in ukraine without which there would certainly not have been an orange revolution and without

which there certainly would not have been a revolution of dignity, at least in the way we have them mrs. myroslavovych, do you agree with me andrii absolutely, i said a lot about it and i write a lot about the fact that the death of georgiy definitely changed the history of ukraine. i think that if, unfortunately , this victim did not exist, well, very directly, president kuchma then wanted to change the constitution. he was very close to changing this constitution , strengthening the presidential power, and maybe today we would live in the new belarus, but this did not happen because george died and then the whole process is not a movement, what is the influence from ukraine to the united states and then the first orange revolution all this created a certain new narrative in ukrainian society and the willingness of society to fight for this justice. we

remember that the first protests were aimed at finding justice for the killing of yoga, therefore, clearly, this is this. from that point of view, the death was not in vain. but again, we are again talking about the partiality of this whole process, because justice has partially arrived, as well as partially changed. unfortunately for ukraine, it has not changed completely, and i repeat once again today in we will have a chance to do this, and that is why i do not think that it is necessary not to talk about it, so that i think that it is necessary to continue to talk about it, the case regarding the customers is still in court at the prosecutor's office. that the answers to all the questions in the donbadze case were given, no matter what these answers were , because this is the whole society has been

waiting for these answers for 21 years, even if it is in the future to be some kind of truth commission or something else that was b very in many countries of the world this it is just as important to do precisely for the sake of society's understanding who is to blame and how to move forward in order to shape one's path, mr. taras well, i also fully agree with the fact that the death of george was a turning point in recent ukrainian history, let's remember the context in 1999 kuchma won his presidential elections elections and he said that you will see another president, and then in the spring of 2000 , a fake referendum was held, which dramatically strengthened the presidential powers, and already in the summer of 2000, the first vote was even held in to the ukrainian parliament to approve these changes to the constitution, and by the end of the year two thousand there was

to be a second vote, and such changes were to be made to the constitution that really transformed us, who, what did we see? we see now in russia, what we see now in belarus and here, the death of george was forgotten about the referendum, and not only about the referendum, it turned around so quickly that already on december 15, 2000, the ukraine without kuchma movement was born. and we, then, politicians and deputies created a committee for the truth and ours really the main demand was the demand to tell society the truth about who killed george and even the defeat of the ukraine without kuchma movement on march 9, 2001. when the skirmish actually took place near the presidential administration, it nonetheless laid the foundation, in my opinion, for the future creation of our ukraine and the victory of viktor yushchenko in the presidential elections in ukraine and ukraine turned from eurasianism to europe and

to the movement towards the civilized western world and so on. has a surname and a name and it began with the murder of heorhiy gongadze mrs. miroslava, the victim of heorhiy gongadze is about the state of freedom of speech in ukraine at that time, the past tense, now we have a full-scale invasion, eh, what do you think about freedom of speech now in ukraine, my son, we should continue to push everything to the war and say that we should not talk about everything now because we have a threat from our so-called neighbor, you know, i am very worried about the state of freedom of speech in ukraine right now, and i understand that there is a concept of national security and i

i understand that we can talk about everything, but i do n't even see, well, we, journalists, even engage in self-censorship because we understand that some things even society is not ready to hear about things about certain corruption schemes, any of the negative information, society as well does not want to hear because and this is understandable because in reality there is a war and survival - this is the most important thing that today is necessary but survival is a media that is controlled either by the oligarchy or by the state or by political political interests and it is actually unhealthy it's dangerous for society, just from society , that's why i have such fears, in fact, prospects, but i think that somehow we will leave, somehow we will survive, and our western partners understand what is happening very clearly in

ukrainian society. and as soon as ukraine wins the war, i think that all these mechanisms will be turned on again in order to restore freedom of speech and all the other democratic processes of decisions and institutions that existed in ukraine, sir, now how to explain to people who have no relation to the media and who do not know - and how it is formed informational picture uh, who really believe that now they are sincerely convinced, for example, some of my fellow students who have no relation to journalism, they get angry when i start voicing some facts uh, what is dangerous you know, i think that after the end of the war, the ukrainian media is in for a very serious and high-quality transformation, not only because there are certain restrictions on the media in wartime conditions, and many

people in society believe that it is still not possible to do too much there. to criticize the government because of the war and so on and so on, but society will have to tell the truth about what the ukrainian media were like before the war, it was totally controlled by a few oligarchic groups, the central tv channels, which for 70-80% formed the public's point of view on the policies of political politicians parties and what is done in society and society believed in it now after the war from my point of view in general the oligarchs can disappear as a class there in the extreme case they will lose a lot of weight and this applies not only rinat akhmetova, who has already given up his tv channels, but if after the end of the war the ukrainian media does not go through a qualitative transformation, it will not transform. well, at least it will not come close to the standards of the bbc there or

television in the united states of america, or the same public tv channels in the federal republic germany the ukrainian society can repeat the same mistake and get into the same trouble it was before the war when the picture of the world people get a television that is made to the order of those or other super-rich people who later lead their people to the ukrainian government and continue to make extra profits at the expense of another part of society, starting at the expense of ukrainian society, and here the role of the media, in my opinion , is extreme, the media cannot be on the side of these processes, they cannot be above and they cannot serve the interests of rich people should not become truly independent of the medi and in this matter it seems to me that the western world, which is now helping us so much in the military field, has exactly the same

to pay attention after the war to freedom of speech and the development of independent media, you know, i finally want to say that well, for example, georgiy gongadze would now be 53, oleksandr kryvenko would be 59, well , even vyacheslav chornovil would now be 84 - this is much more than it would be, for example, well i don't know the same yaroslav kendzor, he is a little younger by 2 years, it seems. well, he is absolutely, uh, absolutely cheerful and we wish him good health. i am talking about the fact that these people are very lacking now, well, it seems to me and they have been missing all these years, all these years without them us they were missing. they could have left with them a lot of such a certain power of energy and leadership qualities that they could lead by being

voices for many that were important to us. he was. well, if he were alive today, he would be at the front. it's clear. i don't have another answer. he predicted this. well, he was afraid to talk about the fact that there would be a big war, but he knew that he was in abkhazia during the war with russia he felt on his body the shrapnel of the russian government, and he talked about the dangers of it. he said that it is necessary to build, where to mark the border, to build a wall on the border with russia , he talked about all this 20 more than 20 years ago uh, no one was ready to talk about it. uh, kuchma's ukraine, uh, was building a neutral u policy or a lot of vector politics, but now he won't give it to me

, now i liked him, and that's why, u u, you know. and he said about some said that everything could break out from crimea, that is, he foresees all this he sees all this, and if he were alive today , he would simply take a machine gun in his hands and be at the front, eh, ukrainians really do not always want to hear some unpleasant unpleasant predictions or feelings or what someone else knows, because he knows more about history, eh country and accordingly can predict some situations. thank you very much for this conversation. it is important to remember those people without whom ukraine would not exist. i think it is very important because even in history when in our country the founding father is considered countries i think kravchuk i always ask a very simple thing that

ukraine could become independent without kravchuk yes or could it become independent without chornovol probably no and these are the things that show who actually moved this story and who is now a little bit in the shadows. it seems to me not deserved for the new generation thank you very much ms. myroslava thank you very much mr. taras today we remember kyiv gongadze, a ukrainian journalist who did a lot for this country with his life and his death as well, but whether that's enough ukraine and current ukrainians remember this too, it's also a question who are the heroes for us and who or who are those who are currently forming information policy from whom they who they put to the forefront and who they leave in the shadows

what also about about freedom of speech, yes, this is also about freedom of speech, and in the meantime, we'll go now, we'll tell you, we'll tell you the news, well, vakulyuk doesn't think so, but then we'll still have it. i'll announce, if possible, an interview with oleg sentsov , too. no i know, it seems moral to me the authority of our time, god, how we worried about him, how we collected signatures and so on , he is here and where he is at the front, he is at the front, just as miroslava said about georgia, so he immediately took up a machine gun to defend the country not only with his own, but not only with his um those skills he has as a film director but to defend in the literal sense of the word but that will be later and just now for your attention a fresh selection of news iryna koval is already ready and we are watching and listening thank you colleagues right for a moment about the most important thing on

i will tell you this time