satur mechanism yes for that i belong to that part of the world to those people who, strictly speaking, are the messiahs, so this is the people of the messiah, and this is the people who suffer, dad. he suffers during his historical existence. he suffers a lot. god's people speak through him and from here, and then they understand that well, well, unfortunately, we have to carry this burden in this life, that is, but still, there is this mechanism, this compensation is, but at this tournament, such a terrible thing occurs as in centimeter er, that is, what does this mean, it means that, well, there is my superior to whom i have to obey

, but it means that if my people are liberated, if my people can er, i live in the country of an empire, and if my country is able to expand and go and to liberate and subjugate the corresponding other peoples. and that is, here i am already getting a chance to use my power, if i can't use it, if i don't have power in my own country, then i acquire such power, compensatory power, and it is no longer so compensatory because i am her in reality can be applied in relation to a stranger. but we are talking about the fact that there is no experience of the other there, because this other is always a stranger, the one who is not with us is our enemy, and this enemy can be not just extorted, not just raped, it can be

destroyed like this and that er, er, er, some kind of feature manifests itself in the russians, now there we see all these atrocities, yes, all these prisons, which are constantly as if they are not open, er, actually in kupyansk or where they are manifested. all these things are manifested where this the compensatory mechanism comes to light but it manifests itself in the greatest cruelty and this slave who freed himself in someone else's territory he was given 5 minutes of fame so that he could make fun of others so that he actually received this compensation from the fact that throughout his or her life and he was extorted now he himself is the master at least for 5 minutes now he himself owns the lives of other people and here is the actual dad now this is a mass of people who suddenly

feel in real power she actually speaking now not just in her mind can manifest some uh-uh anger of violence yes and release the actual this that what do you say about the fact that this is such a psychopathology, yes , that is, a psychopath who reaches out to the actual living people of some kind of real power well, this is where this catastrophe comes from, now i will digress a little and ask you about the day today about yesterday's idea of ​​putin with mobilization and hope is blooming and in particular, many ukrainians will be dissatisfied with the fact that the russians will rise up against the mobilization, and this will be the beginning of the end of putin's power, to put it simply, uh, from what you say, it does not follow from what we just

discussed about the sacralization of power regarding uh, regarding of this asceticism, yes, or colossal patience, yes , to the hard life we, er, tell me, do you personally expect that there will be some kind of dissatisfaction or rebellion or social tension, er, regarding general mobilization , because this is actually a hidden general mobilization? well, i want to repeat that i do not know very well russians are so direct, but i have them. well, for example, my century in the e-e social network. yes, i once had scientists and philosophers from russia, now they have completely disappeared, they do not say anything, they do not appear in this space, that is, they confirm this thesis of this total

um total silence, and that is, there is not even any moaning, and that is, in general, total silence and this silence is not sacred, that is, it is a silence driven by a victim, therefore, unfortunately, i do not hope that the russians can come out and overthrow there or in what is the way not to just overthrow their government and decorate their position, i.e. surely they are like some representatives of the arts and culture there, and i.e. they uh who managed to escape uh from russia, they escaped, but even somewhere safe, they are not very they are in a hurry to express something there, but even if they do express themselves in this way, that is, these russian

intellectuals, and that is, representatives of such an intellectual force, then they are now speaking in aesopian language, i understand that they are in such a situation, when even so to speak, it is not that the movements are any but what even the words are can pose a threat to them, but here we can only hope, well, at least we remember ours, that is, we remember our experience, but in my life i already remember three such big events, i call them the three maidans well, for some reason, we i started it from a young age, in fact, for some reason we were not afraid to go out and on the like well, it is clear that there was fear and the threats were absolutely real, but we understood that in such a unity there is a kind of

unifying force and i understand that this about the unifying force probably remains with us in our culture at least as such an archetype of a kind, that is, i was wondering why, let's say, we have uh-uh, since the 14th year, why we have this powerful movement of volunteering that it appeared with nothing. i don't sat down and suddenly she appeared volunteers and then me er, when i studied the experience of the ukrainian ukrainian brother and i understand that this is actually an archetype of similar things, let's just say at the state level, state institutions stop working or they or the state disappears and institutions disappear, that is, these

institutions begin to form at the level of society, society unites and begins to solve those problems, for example, in the period of statelessness. i begin to solve those problems that the state would be called upon to solve, and therefore. actually , this once again confirms that we are not alone our people are different, we have different political experience, we know what it's like to live. actually, in a period of such statelessness, our native country and at the crossroads of different cultures and at the crossroads of various threats eh and eh, that's why you can speculate and about what we don't have there was statehood, but we did not have this experience of common life interrupted, that is, at the level of political life, we remained a political

nation, although it is possible that our state thread of statehood was interrupted or suspended in different ways, we can talk about this radically and a fundamental difference. i think that this is precisely why putin absolutely sincerely does not believe that the maidans are everywhere. by the way, they did not rise up for the money of the state department, not with some support from the west, or someone's world behind the scenes. and what is it because of horizontal connections ties of society, and when we talked about the archetypal things that are characteristic of our people, i want to ask you, of course, about the russian riot and turmoil. this is ta

well, this is an example of the fact that the russians, on the one hand, yes , that is, they understand that they are a state people, but this statehood is such that if they, uh, it is better to call it statehood, self-participation, i would, i would call it that, and i would call it that. that is, i have already talked about the fact that the government it is sacred, it must be supported under any circumstances , but at the same time, russians understand this weakness and violence of states, that is, the state is an apparatus of violence anyway. element again you are talking about psychopathology and about the

mental state of a psychopath. and i would say even more about masochism, that is, these people are ready to be in this prison, there are ready to be in this prison, and it arises in them at some moments in some historical moments they have a need to let go of this pair, let out a pair of things that they have forced themselves into, which they have forced themselves into, they are ready to obey and but at some point - this means that this pair of dissatisfaction, no one has to let it out somehow , and then various eyes arise riots and riots, but these riots and riots are eh, in the end, well, look. and eh, remember razin’s mace, pugacheva, eh, it’s still about returning some right king, the king is wrong, that is, they must be returned again

. they can't well, i have one, maybe it's not good enough, it's a good comparison, but it's bright. but i've seen how yard dogs, for example, those that are tied on a chain, and how they break away , run, and then come to the circle again , come to the owner again, and again in order for them they put something similar on the chain with these riots and disturbances, as well as with the russian cossacks, and that is, it was the elements that helped the empire to expand the border, that is, yarmak, which conquers siberia, again, it serves the autocracy, it serves the empire, that is, it is not self-sufficient the phenomenon of free life as we say it was in ukraine yes it is like that sich and that is another

archetypal moment and so we on the maidan also recreated sich and we fenced off a certain place a place that needs to be kept so er, so we created a whole state there i will remember the whole university it was like that. that is, it is possible. on the maidan, there was a university, there was a kitchen, there was a stage , there were coordination centers. that is, this is a kind of prototype of the state, but this is a republic. it’s still a republic, and the russians , even if they break out on this pay attention to will pay attention there are these two words there is the word freedom there is freedom there is the word will what is the difference between them yes that is will is when you break out like a bird sits in a cage and it is released and

it flies free, that is, it has more there is no external obstacles that would restrain him from becoming a person in certain movements, so to speak, for example. you consider it necessary to do in this life you yourself build how you will live you don't depend on anyone you don't rely on me from anyone and that is, it is freedom for something not from someone so and so freed so and so now you don't know what to do and you go back to your master, and here you are a self-governing being, you yourself know what to do with yourself, what to do with your country, that is, this is the

fundamental difference between freedom and will . we have this pathos of freedom that remains and we know what to do and we don't need anyone to tell us where to go, how to go, with whom, and so on. that is , we choose it ourselves. here is another such fundamental difference. irisa yes that is, all these troubles they are mainly suffering at will and there is no experience of freedom here, if you look at it from this angle, as you and i look at it, right now in our conversation, the whole culture is at war with us, well, in fact, the whole culture, well, knowledge, culture, worldview, thinking, yes, and not just specific people or even more so not just

putin or some rulers in this sense there are in this sense yes in that this is a war of cultures of thinking and worldviews how would you describe this war it is who is fighting whom and for what i am so unconsciously of the very beginning of the war, i say this, that is, i am talking about that that they, that is, the russians, want to destroy our world like that. that is, i understand our world, and that is, uh, that i belong to some other world, a world that, just like other people there, we, together with these people, will soon recall benedict andersen, who speaks about what about the ideas of the community, we are all unfamiliar with each other, but we are building this world of ours,

our world, which we see as belonging to the western world, and they want to return us to a completely different world and to the eurasian- eurasian world, and that's why i'm talking about what in fact, this is our world, we are its ukrainian world, yes, if on such a smaller level, there are other gradations of this world and larger, so to speak, expanses into which we are trying to enter. however, we believe that we belong to this world, so that is, eh - that is, there are several layers, so to speak, of this world. and that is, i believe that it begins with our each of us with our personal world and because we actually, as i said, we have this experience of private life, we begin your life with some privacy yes

we really want to be alone there. that is, we read a book and listen to music. we think . a wider identification is already being built, we call it the ukrainian world, and then we understand that this world we also belong to the european world, then to the western world, and then we generally understand that we we have to somehow build this system of communication with the whole world as such. that is, we see our world as multipolar, multifaceted, in which there are various others, and we have to take into account the features

of this other. we must be included in the russian world, that is, in the unipolar world and the world of black and white, and that is why i believe that actually these are constant encroachments. it must be said that the war did not even begin in the 14th year, but just now the russian empire arose, but since that time, and maybe even earlier, that is, we have been encroaching for several centuries, i mean as historical, but ukrainians, what a historical people, and

how outdated it may be that this formula did not sound hryadilov and about historical peoples, but here we are. as a matter of fact, we feel in our eyes constant expectations of our world, which i repeat. but it can be understood absolutely broadly and narrowly, and vice versa, narrowly. therefore, this is such a confrontation, uh, confrontation with such, unfortunately, is absolutely not chosen our neighbors and even when this war is over, we need to think about how we will build this relationship with this other who has now become a stranger to us and a foreigner, so why are the russians now strangers to us? why can't they be considered as another for us now ? that they come to us, the world comes and tells us that we do not exist

, they deny us an existential status , they say that we do not exist, and if we deny it, they will destroy us, that is, they treat us as someone else and we have no way out they don't leave, they don't want us to communicate with them as with another, although our attitude to our world and to all others to all other external worlds is coexistence as with another , you need to take into account the experience of the other if you don't let the other into you you will turn into a monological being you will transform and you will freeze in your development, and this is the biggest problem, that is, when you do not let the experience of another into yourself, but once again i want to emphasize that you need to distinguish between another and someone else. a stranger is someone who does not

considers us as another as well as an equal other does not build these connections at the level of culture at the level of personalities at the interstate level and this is the biggest main problem and when you ask me actually who is at war with whom am i and maybe in such broad strokes but i tried to explain so what does this mean to me yes you and in your explanation you already touched on uh the idea about the future what should we do next i'm not talking about uh whether or whether these people somehow we will ever be able to them treat not like strangers but like to others, but the problem is not even that, but the problem is that if you and i started talking, in fact , you started talking about the fact that they just this

worldview came out of isolation so that they are used to being isolated and now, uh, we all believe that everything after all, we will win and that some idea of ​​common sense freedom of the democrats in the world will win, but they remain further isolated eh, that is, in a natural state for themselves in this besieged fortress in a capsule where this brew just ripened eh what a lot who is timiti snyder? in particular, he calls it fascism, and the world is already using the term racism. how do you see it? how do you see how they will get out of this or will they never get out? we absolutely all understand that denazification in germany took place thanks to germany being occupied by troops. allies, it is clear that russia will not do this from the middle, and it finds itself and has already found itself in isolation. and how do you

see it for the future, who will we have next to us in the end? hmm is it good or bad? i think it's good that empires must fall apart, yes, that is, empires at some point. you know, i realized this when there is this uh, talking to one of my acquaintances with uh, with a british man. and he says, i said great britain. he says uk i could n't understand why he avoids this phrase great britain and i here why so and this is actually a reinterpretation or an attempt to reinterpret the experience of the empire that this greatness great

britain yes er this greatness er it well it is a heavy burden a burden which then you carry even after that how did your country get rid of the colony and the next generations bear this burden, so of course it is a thankless task here to advise the russians how to organize them although they know how to warn our country and but we do not rush to them we do not tell for the russians for the russian empire although they officially call themselves this empire, this is the disintegration of this empire into separate states of the country, there are districts, i don't know what they will be called and this is an attempt. well , look, you are talking about germany like during the second world war, germany was divided, but

they had to go through a certain experience of self-awareness of what happened in relation to what led them to the point where they found themselves in such a situation when they they were simply this nazi ideology, it absorbed them and they had to go through this experience where nazification pass it in order to then reunify later, in what way russia will unite, will it or will it not unite, it must be decided by the peoples of russia and the peoples of russia, who, as a matter of fact, also must become adults conditionally speaking in this kanki sense of the word when he says that enlightenment is a--a person's way out of adolescence when he begins to use his own mind, we are the imperial mind, not someone else's

general imperial mind of some leader, yes , yes, our own well and for this you also need, uh, i always remember the german philosopher karl jaspers, who suffered a lot during nazism because he had a jewish wife and he did not want to give her up, and because of this, his they were deprived of everything, he did not teach even after the war he said that the germans, all germans are responsible , that is, he also said that he is ready to bear although he also suffered and this means that even those russians who think that they have a comfortable bath somewhere outside russia, that is, they too they must understand that this is a responsibility. of course, i don't really understand how it can be a collective responsibility, but

the discussion of what russia has done is a discussion, a public discussion, a public discussion. so where is the place? the voice must be heard. there is something to say. i think that this cannot be done without. and that is, in this way. i think that russia can get rid of its colonial past that hangs over it. maybe even on an unconscious level . by freud they may not want to look like imperialists, but it still catches on in them, and until this realization occurs, again, i will give such an example, and that is, this

realization must first take place at the individual level, yes. that is, it must be aware awareness of rethinking at the level of the individual is not an atomized executor of some program of some imperial state structure and a truly free unit yes, which is governed by freedom and not just has its chance to get away with a five-minute and military this is what i think is the real way to restore russia, although this is my opinion and its i don't want to impose on anyone, i think that if my country got into such a situation, i would speak about such steps, thank you, traditions are watching us

, that's why it's so unpleasant for us to read and see statements russian liberals who are in the west, who talk endlessly about the fact that they are here , they are not responsible for anything, and they are just as much putin's victims as the ukrainians, that is, they equate themselves with our victims. thank you for the conversation, taras february . to the ukrainian army for the fact that this conversation could take place. kudos to the armed forces of ukraine. kudos to ukraine and we will see each other next week. thank you.

congratulations .