it will not be possible to convince, it probably depends not only on our ability to convince and how the points correctly spelled out in this treaty, which is the first link of this process, that is, what can directly interfere with this process, please explain. that is, procedurally, we may be inexperienced or the number of countries that will join this is small agreement, will we not find a dot somewhere in the specific conversations about financing about the venue of the tribunal? that is , where we can stumble in the fact that in fact we will not be able to convince with your words already it was said that the tribunal specifically, the tribunal can exist in two forms, at least those that are currently being discussed here, the tribunal that is being created on the basis of the united nations organization, there is a problem with the fact that russia still has the right of veto in the un security council, and then it must be overcome through the house of representatives and there are a lot of countries with which we do not communicate very often or do not

work very much, for example, african countries , so here we just need to work and convince those countries for which countries are not the center of the universe at all and not the center of europe, and for them our problems, our war is very, very far away. therefore, this is the first way and the second, which looks simpler, but there are certainly questions about how legitimate this tribunal will be, how effective it will be, this is a treaty between countries, it may be a small number of countries or it is significant it probably makes no difference er for the european continent because it is a war on the european continent and it can also be a way to organize a tribunal so there are two ways we are going and now we are working on both in both directions with our the ministry of foreign affairs, as we see it , the position of the president is also obvious, but we will see what can be done, again in view of various political aspects, and i hope very soon, because we already have the support of our european partners for the creation of an e-e tribunal, especially

an aggression tribunal let's see which of the models will be more effective introduced novels but this fine that alyona is talking about will interfere with the legal process and can it be overcome by as many countries as possible willing to take whether to participate in the tribunal or finance it, the number of countries is afraid. the problem that can be overcome here is precisely that many countries understand that in the future they may also become accused of the crime of aggression, so in africa, unfortunately, the crime of aggression is committed quite often, and if every time the president senior official will the top political leadership of this country be brought to justice, then justice will increase from this but are the states ready

for this and some african state it can not speak against ukraine it's just that directly, the current leadership can be wary of the fact that such a tribunal can be created, it is up to them and this must be reckoned with, this is a political issue, the more countries there are, the greater the legitimacy of this international tribunal will be, we need to remember about the fact that in the russian federation this international tribunal should be recognized as well, don't call it a court over putin and over the top military and political leadership of the russian federation, it should be a real trial with compliance with all judicial guarantees, even if putin will not be on the list of defendants, there must still be a justified verdict against him and when

we will have this verdict, we will already work on its implementation, but this is the first step, so the creation of the tribunal should still be done. we must involve as many states as possible e financing is an important aspect, but private donors so desire to overcome impunity, it is also limitless in such a black and white situation when we clearly have the act of greece when we clearly have individuals who decided to implement it, it won't be a problem to find money for this tribunal, it won't be a problem to find the support of the states, it's just necessary for the armed forces of ukraine to win, and in the future we were able to implement this decision and eventually attract the implementation of the decision, that's

just right what i would like us to talk about further , because one thing is that we have a court decision, and the other is the russian federation, which has already ignored many decisions of international institutions . the investigation of crimes and the trial of russia called on the world community. according to him, the minister of foreign affairs, dmytro kuleba, russia's crimes against ukraine cannot go unpunished. although for legal reasons, the international criminal court cannot. while creating such a tribunal is the best way to fight impunity for those crimes that have already been revealed including in the recently liberated kharkiv region, to make sure that the international criminal court has all the possibilities to prosecute those guilty of crimes against humanity war crimes of genocide, as well as create a special tribunal to try russia for crimes

of aggression. ukraine conducts constant consultations with the g7 states and other partner countries about the creation of a special international tribunal for russia. war criminals, organizers of the war in yugoslavia and genocide in the ground, the international tribunal against russia may become the fifth, kyiv insists what exactly does it have to sentence the top leaders of russia for crimes of aggression against ukraine, as explained by the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, dmytro kuleba, at the beginning, international partners did not support this initiative , they believed that the condemnation of russia should take place within the framework of the already existing status, namely the international criminal court, however, after the publication of new facts of crimes this position of russia has changed and now the parties are already discussing how to implement the idea of ​​a special tribunal, mr. roman and ot, and since you started this topic of putin's responsibility

personal, and what can it be in your opinion in the current geopolitical situation, i will allow myself only a small comment directly about the crime of aggression, this tribunal may be the first in history because both nuremberg and tokyo and in yugoslavia and poland there were war crimes and the crime of genocide and crimes against humanity, and so what to bring for the crime of aggression here, i hope we will be the first and set a new vector in the development of international law and international relations, the punishment for putin may be the only yes this is life imprisonment eh, the death penalty is prohibited by universal and international human rights documents, therefore eh, this type of punishment will not be how to bring putin to responsibility eh. from today there is no clear answer to this question, as there was

in 44 in 1944 it seemed that hitler would not shorten his life like that. in this way, he was punished for starting the second world war. we must understand that the execution of the sentence against putin is possible only after the victory of the armed forces of ukraine, or after the change of power in the russian federation itself. er, international law knows examples of south sudan, so the president is accused of er crimes of genocide in darfur er 10-11 years after these crimes, er was president and er could not er end up in the international criminal court but the government has changed, cooperation with the international

criminal court has begun, and there are promises that albasher will end up in the hague and face international criminal charges, but it is important if he will be in prison later, of course, he wants to be in ukraine, but we must emphasize internationality uh, this tribunal, uh, i oppose the fact that it was created in ukrainian cities, despite the fact that atrocities were committed in ukrainian cities, uh, we have the capital of international justice, yes, the city of gaga in the netherlands. i think that he will serve his sentence there, of course. thank you thank you mr. roman for your expert opinion. roman is also an international iris and dotsenko, authors of international law from the taras shevchenko kyiv university, was with us if we are talking about an international criminal court that a tribunal is worth create because the international criminal court

will not be able to cope with this task and directly because the proceedings in the criminal court can last for years, but when the tribunal is created, everything will happen much faster, the procedure is still prescribed and that this is a new procedure, can we be sure that the tribunal will decide the fate putin is here very quickly. i want to note once again why we need aggression before the mandate of the international criminal court is not included in the armed aggression that was committed in our conditions. that neither ukraine nor russia are parties to the rome statute. therefore, we are now saying that the mts cannot legally investigate the crime of armed aggression, but the ukrainian side proceeds from the fact that the crime of armed aggression is the beginning and the conditions in which other profitable crimes are crimes crimes against humanity were committed that's why we need to bring russia

to justice for the crime of armed aggression against ukraine that's why we need a tribunal of course international justice is not fast never has been and never will be in our case that's why the reason why a separate tribunal should be it is more in the material and legal plane than in the plane of time, however, we certainly cannot hope for very fast, fast justice, however, we will clear up the situation, which colleagues have already talked about in such a black and white way that they understood what kind of armed aggression zolochiv committed. here it is not necessary to prove for a very long time that it was not provoked. it was unprovoked. it was a blatantly provoked aggression against ukraine. i think that the review process itself can take place quickly enough here, but we we have to take into account the long process of creating this tribunal, the consideration, and the very fact of prosecution, this is normal. it may take years. however, we hope that, after all, this justice will not come, it may be delayed in matters of international

justice, sincerely, that it is often tens of years, but our the goal is for russia to still be and above the political military leadership of the russian federation were brought to justice for the crime of armed aggression precisely for him alyona what do you think, uh, mr. roman said that he is against it that these would be national tribunals, i.e. in the cities of ukraine, although such a thesis was also put forward by ukrainian politicians that after we learned about the crimes in buch, it is now obvious that we do not know all the atrocities in izyum yet. he said mr. roman that it is necessary to emphasize the international nature of this tribunal, accordingly, and the city should be european, what do you think of the idea? i think it is important to say that these are crimes only against ukraine, directly ukraine is a victim of armed aggression, but in fact it is a crime against peace, such a legal order against the international right, so it seems to me that similarly, if it will be other countries, so that there are also no accusations on our

side that we are unfairly judging the political leadership of the russian federation. especially since such institutions are 100%, we will know about it, so it is better to prevent it and postpone it e consideration to those european countries. it may not be the netherlands, but another country, but to european countries where we can talk about such a truly independent, independent judicial process . the leadership of russia, as well as the propagandists of religious figures and all those who financed the war against ukraine. this was stated by the head of the parliamentary committee on foreign policy, oleksandr merezhko . responsibility of all those who directly or indirectly, for example, with their blessing , supported the killing of ukrainians, joins

our broadcast oleksandr pavlichenko executive director of the ukrainian helsinki union for human rights, mr. oleksandr, we welcome you. good day, mr. oleksandr, thank you for your wish. please explain such moments when we talk about what ukraine should do. yes, first of all, she has, as she said, we will be directly and ukraine declared the tribunal should be built on the basis of the rome statute, but ukraine signed it, did not ratify it, we talk about it so much , and the question actually arises. how much time does ukraine itself need for this now, and without it a tribunal may take place, oleg, they raised a very valid question, which today simply needs an urgent solution, and what ukraine is currently talking about is the declared demand for the creation of this international thermodal,

which will be built and function on the basis of the rome statute, at the same time that ukraine itself, having signed this rome statute, does not ratify it , first postponing the ratification for three years, then canceling the idea of ​​ratification altogether for the time being in some period of time, and er, i will emphasize that the primary task now is for ukraine to establish this standard of prosecution for the commission of international crimes , which consists in the fact that the requirements of this document of the rome statute with all but the established qualifications of crimes must be complied with, and ukraine must ratify this document, this is the first and urgent step and already the second step should be or parallel should be the question of creating such a tribunal as it will function on the basis of the same rome statute. i will remind that alyona

lunyova is also in touch with us, the director of advocacy of the human rights center and the change of alyona, well, surely one of the key issues is that without the rome statute, we can move further to the tribunal, either within the framework of the european union or at the level of the organization of the united of nations, we can potentially and now we are moving, er, i am very clearly divided by the composition of oleksandr regarding the fact that it is strange to constantly er, refer to the norms of international law, talk about the roman statutes, to ratify it ourselves, but we can also say that there is partial harmonization national criminal legislation with the norms of international criminal law, it would be good about these bills about which mr. alexander said, i also emphasize that it is important to adopt such a law, therefore, even without the rome statute, without its ratification, we can move towards the tribunal; moreover, the non-ratification of the rome statute led us to that we demand a separate, er, a separate tribunal for the crime of aggression

, when this may still be the authority of the icc in the event that both countries and which countries what kind of armed aggression was committed? the aggressor country is part of the rome statute. i think it does not interfere . no, it did not ratify, it did not ratify, and we are not in the same situation as unfortunately, this is also a political point of view, it is definitely bad. aggression, we are in the situation in which we are now. we can demand it. then the question still has to be ratified by both sides of the conflict directly, or if we ratify and russia does not ratify, the tribunal will still be there is no need to create and this case can be considered in the icc, you just said. if it had been ratified, then there was no need to create a tribunal if we understood you correctly , correction i was understood in accordance with the rome statute if both parties are with the rome

statute side yes then we can say that uh international a criminal court can consider the crime of aggression, we were not a party at the time of the aggression and are not now, and the russian federation is also therefore, in any case, in the situation in which we are now we can and should talk about a separate tribunal, but now we are talking only about the crime of aggression, if we are talking about war crimes or crimes against humanity, after all, now our situation is a little better, we already have the icc, there is an investigation if we are talking about this category crimes in our country are not covered by the existing mechanisms, only crimes of aggression, the crime of aggression is clear, thank you for the emphasis in the european commission, at the beginning of september they emphasized that they are ready to discuss the creation of a special tribunal for crimes committed by russia on the territory of ukraine, in particular the european commissioner for justice didier reynders noted that the european commission plans to use all mechanisms and punish all those involved in the commission of atrocities in ukraine, at the same time, according to him, the main role in the investigation and punishment of the guilty

should be played by the ukrainian prosecutor's office and the courts, the european commissioner emphasized that the investigation of russian crimes is also taking place on the territory of the eu , 14 member states have already started their own investigations, the commission supports all your efforts in order to bring to justice the persons who committed these crimes in ukraine at the national and international levels. we cooperate with the international criminal court, we are also open to discussing the creation of a special tribunal to see the prospects and you know that there are also discussions with the european court of human rights in strasbourg, the minister of foreign affairs of estonia, urmas rein salo, in an interview with the american tv channel fox news, called russia's aggression against ukraine genocide and called on the countries of the world to be concerned about the world security order, in which force currently prevails, the world should unite and establish a special tribunal against the leader of this war of aggression, which has all the signs of a genocidal type, the world should see putin together

with his henchmen on the dock, i will remind oleksandr pavlichenko and alyona lunyova with us now mr. oleksandr and if the european commission and our partners in the european union say that we are ready to create and even join investigations at least before international courts and how all this evidentiary base is obvious that it will simply be masses of documents that will be collected and processed by whom because there is our national prosecutor's office, the police, there are international groups that, in particular , are currently working and visas, and we know that there are two more mass burial sites of ukrainian citizens and crimes the crimes of the russians were discovered there, how will all this be worked out later and by whom, for now, everything is under the jurisdiction of the national law enforcement agencies , before it is our prosecutor's office and

of the national police, which carry out investigations, collect evidence, and in fact, already in open criminal cases, prosecution is carried out in the event that it is possible to establish the direct culprits, but this is work exclusively at the national level, that is, without the involvement of an international element and component when we talk about what is not there is a possibility and foreign specialists are really working eh it works eh the so -called program is yura just there are eh the so-called the composition of which includes, respectively, law enforcement , which law enforcement agencies, primarily of ukraine, lithuania, poland, and the european union. that is, it is precisely me who joins such joint working groups, thanks to which

, let's say, the achievement of better standards of evidence collection, their proof, and again, for now these materials are at the disposal of national law enforcement agencies. because there is also a question regarding the conformity of our current state of criminal procedural legislation with the possibility the inclusion of these foreign elements, let me remind you that there are currently proposals for changes to the legislation in order to have the opportunity to involve representatives of such international institutions as, for example, the same investigators from the office of the prosecutor of the international criminal court of the international criminal court, we are already talking about the possibility of representatives of other successful jurisdictions which can be implemented accordingly in their territories by involving their e law enforcement officers in joint

work on the investigation of crimes that become the e e level of war crimes and accordingly, it is another task for us to monitor how national legislation will allow us to effectively carry out this work so that evidence is not lost and that it is possible to process all the materials of criminal cases as efficiently as possible, which will meet the appropriate standards of proof. let me remind you that there are special standards of proof if which international criminal courts already operate, here it would be doubly important for us to already work according to these standards, having ratified these instruments such as the rome statute directly and accordingly all the work protocols of the same icc so that they were transferred to the national ground so that the investigators and prosecutors and judges repeat

the same work already in this process . at the time of its publication and this is march 14, in an appeal to world leaders, the initiators of the collection of signatures emphasize that as citizens from all over the world, we urgently call on you to bring putin and his accomplices to personal responsibility for their illegal invasion of ukraine through the creation of a new special tribunal to punish the crime of aggression, the new court is key to protecting not only ukraine, but the whole world from an attack that was illegal from the very beginning . directly, this act of aggression was not a crime against humanity, and there would not have been a direct war crime in the meantime. and what would have changed if, say, we were not talking about a crime of aggression now, but we were talking about a crime against peace as it was in nuremberg, that is, why directly we are

now placing emphasis in this way, this is probably a simple question for you and oleksandr, but let's focus on this once again, why when we talk about the special tribunal, we mean, after all, first of all the crime of aggression, the crime of armed aggression as such what is really a crime for which international criminal responsibility should arise, it arose in such a modern history with modern international law after the second world war if we believe with the participant that is why i think that very it is important to say that since the second world war there has not been a full-scale armed aggression that has taken place against ukraine. therefore, we emphasize that this is a crime against the world peace order, about against international law itself , and we emphasize once again that it is necessary to punish the crime of aggression because war crimes are crimes acts against humanity are committed in various corners of the planet,

but it is important for us on the european continent that there are countries that very concretely and very clearly oppose themselves to all such an anti-democratic movement so that we talk about bringing to justice for the crimes of aggression the very people who gave the orders to invade ukraine, because it seems that we simply will not get them by other means, mr. oleksandr, and your final word, too. -e of this world who are now trying to er refer to their neutral status realized that they are neutral towards those who do not commit crimes and you cannot be neutral towards criminals and here i can quote just the phrase er as i like it very much the ambassador of switzerland, with whom we

spoke in the post-mining week, strongly and aptly said that switzerland was a neutral country regarding those crimes regarding those acts of aggression that were not recognized as crimes during the 19-20 centuries, but let me remind you that since 2010, the kompalya conference defined exactly the crime of aggression as one of the grave crimes in violation of international humanitarian law, accordingly, remaining neutral towards the criminal is, well, i am a certain singer. yes, in this crime, it is very important to report it as me and e here neutrality cannot be either political or legal and accordingly responsibility for the actions of such physicists must come pavlichenko, the executive director of the ukrainian helsinki union for human rights, was in touch with us and alyona lunyova, the director of advocacy of the human rights center, the change of our broadcast continues stay with us unconquered cities of ukraine is the

cossack town of okhtyrka, which is proud of its churches and the miraculous icon of the mother of god, when okhtyrka was overrun by muscovy, the city had to cover its borders in endless wars for a short time, there was hope for a peaceful life as part of the ukrainian state, the reds took revenge for the famine, the earth and the cossack spirit helped people to save themselves and the city, today okhtyrka again stands on the treacherous shield on the border of good and evil, this time for the country to which her soul actually belongs okhtyrka my country is unconquered, it is

my country, it is different in winter, it is harsh , charming, and you don’t smell of flowers and berinda from the landlord, but my country is really bright and colorful. in my country, it is unique and they are wonderful, they give birth to colorful rainbows, my dear dragobrat in the spring, who covered himself with a soft blanket, where you were not, you will always return home to your country, i will not give it to anyone. the unconquered cities of ukraine are the cossack

city of izyum, where one of the oldest buildings of the slobozhan region is located. the transfiguration cathedral was the center of the famous izyum regiment here the townspeople survived the first famine thanks to the active struggle against prosaic forces in the second world war the city twice found itself in the center of fierce battles today raisins again on the line of fire burned forever but ready to stand for victory invincible the only news together we are strong armed forces need drones make