absolutely, in illegal conditions. we remember that there is a separate geneva convention that describes how people who were combatants, that is, took part in an armed conflict with weapons in their hands, but ended up in captivity, and in the case of our fighters for the zone, they were also wounded there people are accordingly injured and competent. there are separate descriptions of how they should be treated. this is not only contact with relatives, which in fact was not possible, including being physically and medically supported. that is, we really see people in a state anorexia. that is, after starvation, in people who were not provided with any information, they said that they thought that they were being taken during the exchange, that they were being taken to be shot, that is, no information - this is accordingly. in addition, for example, this is the singing of the russian national anthem, does it look like this oleg sentsov used to

say that they were forced to watch solovyov once a day. in other words, this is in a certain way bullying, but we are silent about the real torture, physical torture, intimidation - this is also torture, psychological pressure - this is also torture. what they said that they were woken up by the wound or interrupted by the sun - it is called sleep deprivation, this is also torture, that is, all this is a violation of international humanitarian law of this geneva convention, which describes how we should treat prisoners. centers and where the red cross has permanent access where they have the opportunity to contact relatives regularly most likely, its soldiers have never even heard

that it exists, that is, they hypothetically hear about the fact that there are some rules and traditions of war, but this is definitely not something that they studied and that they understood that every person who took part in this was from the russian side army is a war criminal and this is very important to hear especially in countries that seem to support us, well, the whole british system and people and politics support us, but britain is a place from which a lot of legal traditions came from, and so if we really want justice a you and i definitely want him for every such crime , including in relation to our prisoners, it is very important such speeches in the city where the brits who choose those politicians who will stand for this justice in the international system will hear it when we talk about i recently heard about international law, and here and there

even lesya gave it. i will make a small comment for the polish media and they asked. someday these war criminals will be punished and this is a good question and it arises not only among us , it also arises among people abroad , journalists of our colleagues, for example, on polish television or radio to understand international humanitarian law, it does n't work a little bit like how national law works, national law is what you and i know, we have our freedoms and our power that the people of ukraine have . the question of where to get and where to grow professional politicians, we delegated to them the right to create for us the rules that we need to sing yes and

we have courts for this with you, the police, well, the army, in the end, so that directly those who violate these rules yes, we had the means to actually stop these violations is in the national law. it is a little easier because we recognize that there is a government that has to do all this, to ensure international law, it is all treaties, and there is no universal government that would ensure the mandatory punishment of those who they can only be violated by the unification of sovereignties, i.e. ukrainian, british, polish, which er offers shows everyone that such a strategy actually secures everyone, and for example, if we are talking about documentation - this is the number of witnesses among people, why is it so important that international journalists come. they have access everywhere. they go home and talk about

it. they write very, very important materials from many . in addition to such investigations of journalists , huge courts and international including for you and me, so that the truth becomes obvious, the truth that we see from the window, that our parents tell us, for example, there in mykolaiv, i myself am from mykolaiv, my mother's apartment is under fire from all sides, she is no longer there, but i usually follow my a native building, yes , that is, what you and i consider obvious to people many kilometers away is not considered so, and therefore when we document, we lay this foundation so that no one will see this truth anywhere, but whether there will be justice depends on us and you well, it seems to me that ukrainians are now just worried about passing the matriculation exam, when you and i stop believing that someone

owes us something. region for probably eurasia, because what is happening now in kyrgyzstan, tajikistan, armenia , azerbaijan, all of this is still governed by russian standards. but if you and i can make justice and democracy here, we will become an example for the entire region, and therefore documentation is 100% necessary, if only because you and i are taking the first step in the 70 years of the soviet union, nothing was called a real crime, you and i failed that exam, but now we have the opportunity to do it at least look at moldova, there was no documentation of what happened between moldova and transnistria, never even there. until now , young people who would like to know the truth, they come across the official position of one or the other

side and they have no opportunity to develop their own vision, by the way, we cooperate with them, and it is possible that such documentaries, public organizations, will appear who will collect more testimonies of living witnesses who saw all this, that's why it's a very good idea you say that i just thought about the fact that at one time the crimes of the soviet army 44 -45 years in europe during the birth of the so-called so-called so they were not documented so they were not documented and this actually became the reason that there is a very huge array of such repressed e-e trauma whole society is sick with he then looked at germany at germany like this. that is, this is the truth that was conveyed by hints or or was hushed up, even this is what ukrainians have with the famine of the 33rd year and this is the trauma

that well, how can we thank president yushchenko and the people who were next to him then answered for the humanitarian bloc, which has buried all of this together with historians and everything , and ukrainians have somehow survived this grass, but absolutely absolutely . this time, let's say a little, so it's time to practice, i mean in 2014, when the center for civil liberties went to document human rights violations in crimea in march, none of us knew how to do that, we were the first of our mobile groups to arrive . came out and thank god we didn't just run into stretch marks or something because we didn't have any instructions at all , but we didn't understand how to do it, we just filmed everything we saw with us, he was also in that group hmm eh for example eh in the main the editor of the book or

andrii, who is already at the front yes, but he and i talked about it, about what, who are these first people, who are coming, they are concerned human rights defenders and journalists, and after that, for 8 years of documenting war crimes, we created a separate unit of the prosecutor's office, with which the war department cooperates we studied with the croats, we studied with the bosnians, we studied in the zolotyn america, organizations helped us, that is, for 8 years we had the opportunity to understand how important it is and it is not only documentation the so-called working with memory, transitional right, feeling, all this has already been described in other regions, there are examples, there are rakes that can be learned and not repeated with you and i , everything is very fast and we do not have time to deal with old rakes, it is better to take them into account, so a lot

of work, in fact, a lot of work for us, i see andriy on a tank on armor in izyum not so long ago, his video i wish him god protect him and thank you for your work mrs. oleksandra oleksandra romantsova human rights defender and executive director of the center for civil liberties was with us by the way er, i remembered when you talk about these british people who were forced to get up in the morning, these guards of russian prisons forced them to sing the national anthem of russia, i remembered that once upon a time when they worked as journalists in the fields, they wrote interviews with the last living in he survived the nazi concentration camp, he survived, went through this concentration camp, returned home alone from zhytomyr, he is a pole by origin. well, when he told me that his biggest scary dream was that he dreamed that he was holding a loaf of bread in his hands, and he was terribly not

i finished eating there in that concentration camp, people were tormented by terrible hunger, and a nazi came and beat an iron and into such a sleeper and this terrible sound just woke everyone up and he was already under 90, and he continued to dream that someone was beating him -he was covered with iron and this meant that someone would take this bread from him and that is why in his old age he always bought wheat and some grains in order to feed the pigeons from the window of his apartment and what is interesting is that mr. zhezetskyi returned to ukraine from the nazi concentration camp, do you know what he did the soviet government that i will throw in the noise is correct because it believed that this was a traitor to the people, he barely got out of that mace and again it happened again. so about the fact that the soviet regime should have been punished and convicted for those crimes, but this did not happen. maybe we are now correcting that

historical injustice by confronting the russian army, which is a continuation of that regime , meanwhile in russia dmitry medvedev said that russia has the right to use nuclear weapons if someone attacks them with nuclear weapons he got drunk again a what happened before that, before that, they said that we were just hitting ukrainians so that they would get a little warning from blinkin, i don't know what blinking said on the phone, maybe he said to putin, look out the window, i see that that village would be 52, your radars won't see it well, i'll just come down specifically so that you can see him here with a nuclear bomb . well, it's just so that you are aware. meanwhile, elections were held in italy and for the first time since the second world

war, such a party came to power, the brothers of italy are called the coalition of the right parties, together they collected about 40% of the votes and well, how does this affect the balance of forces in the european union, how does it affect ukraine. we will talk about this with victoria vdovichenko, candidate of historical sciences, associate professor of the department of international relations and international law of the borys hrinchenko kyiv university, contact us p victoria e good morning to you, tell us more about e-e because there is a lot of different information contradicting one another, it is some kind of ultra-fascists, neo-fascists, their founder is almost not mussolini, but they they call themselves centrists, but the truth is, first of all, the party of brothers italy was founded as a

far-right party in 2012 , and its leader, george melania, promoted ideas or ideological the value of far-right rhetoric, but she left, and this primarily concerned the fact that in 2018, 4 years from now, she still wanted to get into the parliamentary er-e attic, then she didn’t quite succeed. it was 4%, well, and now heartbreaker 26 and this first of all, it is a huge leap, and in a certain way we ask ourselves whether the values ​​have really changed so much and the far-right party has moved away from its rhetoric and become more right-centered. this is a big question because in the messages that george mioni presents to the world, this is indeed the case. but she has there is also a certain party of supporters of the ultra-fascist

ideology, and what are the so-called representatives of the old temper and to what extent will it be able to balance or tolerate them - this is an incredibly big question, in general, these elections showed that the level of the laboratory of populism is something completely new and does not mean 4:0. for example, a5-0, because the italian republic is doing many things for the first time, i am voting for the first time under the new electoral law, while reducing the number of deputies from 900 to 600, and for the first time, voting took place almost in to the summer company accordingly, the turnout was very low at 63%, the lowest turnout rating in the entire history of the republic of italy hmmm republic of italy i apologize and uh, for the first time, the reference point was the most interesting online audience, that is, the focus is not only on the representatives of the classics who go to

vote and also on the youth, and for this the draft law was submitted in order to allow young people in the senate . they allowed young people from the age of 18, that's why the outrage towards young people, which is four and a half million e-e, thanks to this bill, it was as if an opportunity was presented for voting e-e, the reference point became the tiktok network and here, in addition to the fact that mateus albini very often and , let's say, looks more organically against the background of the shock, but the boom happened when sol vibrilus kodnia began to engage the youth audience by appealing to various messages in tik tok for that for young people to come and vote for him as a result of m.m. forza italy or forward

svidoborovsky's italy there is almost no rating 9% the league has changed its audience and supporters accordingly it is also almost 9%, well, george melanie's heartbreaking 26% about which we are today that's what we're saying, let's get to the main question, now we've been watching the video, they showed salvini, they showed berlusconi, and plus they were joined by the brothers of italy, led by uh, my brother, probably yes, giorgio miloni . i want it, they promise us the opposite, but they don't promise it, and what do you think we should expect from them , george, melody, do you understand, uh, there will be two factors that will in a certain way restrain us, let's say. do you know the reversal of italian foreign policy ? it is not predicted because george's melody is directly the same. and before this vote in how do

you know that this is the only party of these three that was not part of the previous coalition, it is still led by mario drag and if er george meloni consecutively with mario drag in one issue what happened was the support of ukraine and the provision of its military aid, in particular , by the way, these are the warm relations between george melody as the leading party against italy and mario drive, and now the former prime minister continues again, he is even predicted some kind of a very serious chair in brussels, but now the most interesting thing is that at the moment no one will deal with the change of the vector . in the ministerial

portfolios, and now it will be well, let's say for george, the youth will have more emphasis. i predict that in 2023 , we will see how strong the charismatic leader of the brothers of italy, george valoni, will be because to maintain such a very motley partner coalition by partner, i mean when the league on the one hand has a memorandum of involved russia in the style of the choice of god, which quite openly talks about supporting putin, is directly shocking to the point that he likes this charismatic leader and his politics is incredible it will be difficult, but the fuses that are in the persons or institutions of the european union and official washington and only george melony will need funds from the european union, i will remind you again in this country, one of the highest public debts in general, since 2011 after the crisis of 2008-9

, george miluni will still balance how she will do it. this is an incredibly large and complex job, and we still have to get to know them gentlemen, at the very end, briefly, if i may allow, these are such things. well , what worried me, for example, and worried me about giorgia melody. these are her plans to actually abolish parliamentarism, the parliamentary form of government in italy, and this is exactly what is bringing us closer to the souls of mussolini it is really true i even wrote in my articles that one of the workers of the goals since april, i apologize, even since may 2022 , then the draft law was submitted for her, let's say , the leadership, but it is supported and these elections, the late matteo savini said that it is your attention there was no change in the regime of the parliamentary republic, which has been in the

italian republic in italy since 1946, and a presidential republic should become available, it will assume that i am a strong figure of the president , that is, not ceremonial. and as it is now, e is for hearts mozzarella is characteristic and with management powers. and here is the most interesting thing - this is where george maloney will take the votes in order to change it again. which are submitted as a draft law in both the lower and upper parliaments, but a referendum is also being held. we and the italian experts have been talking about this for several days and we agree in a joint opinion that george's chance to do so is minimal. because if it really enlists the support of its two coalition partners of the league and the salt, the

salt of the choice of the husks ahead of italy and still for lack of votes, but in italy there are still several parties that are not defined in a certain way. regarding this position, this is in particular the movement of the stars who scored a rather high result of 15%, ex-prime minister giuseppe conte is the one who initiated the process of mario's resignation and where is this party going to go because if we count together and also take some marginal leftists it is the voices may be enough to implement the bill submitted by george melody or the joint coalition of rules. he was supported in the parliament after all. again, there is no shortage of populists to implement it . maybe it would be worth raising

some of these electoral qualifications because we can see that this flirting will be liked or disliked. it plays its role, and i will also tell our viewers that you can watch beautiful, beautiful italian the comedy of the law is out of place here, also about populism and the peculiarities of italians as voters. a wonderful comedy. if you have the opportunity, the time and the peace that the armed forces of ukraine give us, then watch ms. victoria. thank you. victoria vdovichenko , candidate of historical sciences and associate professor of the department of international relations and of international law from kyiv university, borys grinchenko was with us, but we continue the election topic, but we will talk about the pseudo-referendums that are taking place in the occupied parts of ukraine with and let's talk about it with oleksandr klyuzhevy, he's an expert on electoral law, he's a political analyst, he's with us on the phone. good day. well, oleksandr, congratulations, and i'll ask olya

ivazovska from the support. recently, i saw an interview, it seems like this no, she got involved. and she said that one of the mistakes of the event, which these pseudo-referendums are trying to highlight now , is that they talk about them as something that should not be perceived as something that is done with a violation, but nevertheless as some kind of process what can you call a referendum, do you agree that there is an institutional problem here? to be honest, in contrast to the so-called referendum in crimea, i do not currently see among western politicians or experts the willingness to say that ok, this is illegal, but still , it reflects the will of a part of the citizens, and i think that the situation here is radically different compared to the 14th year, then indeed the western elites played

such a double game, we will not support it, but i understand that there are some grounds and such a game was based on great russian lobbying in that including in europe, now i see that everyone still does not accept what russia calls a referendum on the occupied territories, because everyone understands that in fact it was not even russia that organized it. if we talk about the referendum, it is just a military command of the russian federation, for example in the zone they organized some kind of pr campaign. i think that here, using these new opportunities, when the world understands what we are talking about, it is necessary to talk first of all about the people in the occupied territories, if not to indulge in various political the discussion is essentially about intimidation from the cleansing of the civilian population by carrying out this operation in the way that you are now demonstrating on the screen why because people feel that collaborators

russian servicemen are coming to them and they are asking them how do you feel about russia and definitely people are afraid , people are forced to partially participate in these actions, and then when they took part in this illegal action, they think that ukraine will regard them as traitors, and this is essentially the russian model management of these territories, first drive out part of the people, then intimidate the occupied territories, and then tell those who remain, well , no one will accept you there, ukraine will not accept ukrainian law, and that is why i now accept the conduct of this operation in this way at home, the so-called voting near the houses, including the implementation of russia's cynical technology of cleansing the civilian population so that everyone is afraid, everyone feels that they are smeared with something if it's so rude to say that's why

extremely tragic things and it is necessary to talk about it, but from the point of view of the procedures, from the point of view of the so-called results. there is nothing to talk about here at all, because russia, in fact, is not even trying, in my opinion, to pretend that this corresponds to the will of the people. they are at the level of their propagandists at the level of deputies of the state duma says that we took this territory by force and now we will not give this territory to anyone. and that's all, even words . so here, or even the attempts of russian propaganda or russian information agents abroad to say that this is a real referendum. i don’t see such grounds, that is, they are certain there. does it tell us that this is the consolidation of the status that is now in the regions, but they know that no one will believe that it is the will of the people, the masks are not even that

they have been removed, they are not even wearing them, they did not even try to wear them, because they draw whatever they want, but it seems to me that it is simple. they certainly had the hope that they would be greeted with joy and flowers in kherson in the kherson region of the zaporizhia region. i am not talking about other specific territories there, but they did not exclude from february this year that there would be no referendum at all to capture and annex these territories to the russian federation, if we even look closely at those deputies of the state duma who supervise the occupied territories, so to speak, then they did not rule out simply even joining the the territory of russia discussed how to do it correctly in accordance with russian legislation , therefore, in fact, no one is trying to pretend

that this is a legitimate process and we should treat it that way anyway, it is the occupier with weapons in his hands, he just seized the territory, now in violation of international law declares that these territories will be part of the russian federation, and here the referendum, well, if it was here, it has no meaning except that it solves the issue, as i already said, of the cleansing of our civilian population, and this very serious things because people clashed directly within a week that they are followed by them, this solves a certain internal political problem of russia. so these so-called referendums because putin needs to show that he is more of a nationalist than those nationalists who are not skeptical of his successes er, on the territory of ukraine, and these er, these pseudo-referendums and further statements about the annexation of the territory solve a certain of his internal political problems. and he is afraid, as far as i understand, of internal political confrontations, conflicts because he has never been

public politician he always concentrated power on monopoly, and here against the background of the upheaval associated with the kharkiv offensive of the armed forces on the background of the fact that this so-called special operation does not have significant success, he saw a certain competition and because of these actions about joining and the so-called pseudo-referendum, he seems to be restoring confidence in himself on the part of those so-called patriotic circles of russia who want blood, who want success in ukraine, and definitely he expects vladimir putin that through blackmail diplomats will be opened. and er, he always hopes for that er. he always hopes, through intimidation, blackmail, certain er statements of a radical nature, that civilized western politicians will come and say ok, we are forced to negotiate with you as equals, but i hope that this will not happen and i don't see yet