er, it is at the discretion of our command, which makes the appropriate decisions, but what i think is that as a result, no matter how they cover people with bodies and so on, it seems to me that this will only lead to greater demoralization of the russian troops and russian forces and to disruption processes of mobilization in russia well, because if before that we saw cases when they surrendered to captivity or fled under the pressure of ukrainian princes, then people who go to the prepared and it is obvious that they neglect their training there and literally in a few days after the draft, did they leave for mobilization ? well, yesterday in kharkiv oblast, a mobilized man was detained from near moscow who said that he was mobilized on september 21 and he was already there in less than a week in kharkiv oblast. that is, this is evidence that the quality of the training of these people it will be at the rivne level, there will be many of them. so,

unfortunately, it must be said that they will fight there to the last citizen of the russian federation, but in principle, i do not think that globally somehow ukraine will change its approaches or will change its intentions, goals and objectives. it is the deoccupation of the ukrainian territory. thank you, mr. oleksandr, for the conversation. this was oleksandr musienko, the director of the center for military legal studies. we talked with mr. oleksandr about the situation in ukraine surrounding the so-called referendums. you know that on september 27, moscow announced the end of these pseudo -referendums in the occupied territories of donetsk, luhansk, kherson and zaporizhzhia regions, now moscow is happy that they almost 100% drew the number e-e for themselves in these pseudo-referendums well, of course, they are preparing for the fact that the state

institutions of russia, to put it simply, putin 's institutions will now somehow legalize the status of these territories that are transitory, which are under occupation, friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as in social networks on youtube and on facebook for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook i invite you friends to like this video and subscribe to our social networks if you are watching us now on youtube we have a new function uh there is a sponsor button you can to join and become a mini-sponsor of the youtube channel and our programs that we make online, you just need to click literally twice on the sponsors button and choose a sponsorship package. your support supports us for tautology and your

support is very important to us. yevhen makda, executive director of the institute of world politics, yevhen good day good health to you thank you for joining our conversation congratulations mr. serhiy glory to ukraine glory to the heroes mr. yevhen oleksandr musienko and i have already started talking about the pseudo-referendum results in the occupied territories of ukraine in the occupied donetsk region, luhansk region, kherson region, and zaporizhzhia, and the question is quite simple in this situation, eh, putin will go quickly and to the end to legalize the occupied territories in russian legislation and annex them, well, literally in the next few days, because we heard that putin is going to do this, i

also think that this issue will be considered by the federal assembly of the russian federation, or will he continue to blackmail the west so that it may join or not i will add, well, first of all, this action, which can be called a fake land, by and large, it has nothing to do with the right or the right of a nation to self -determination. new new discoveries about the kherson people, well, you understand. it's just one hundred percent aggressive delusion and to pay attention to it somehow seriously. i think it's simply not worth it. but russia is definitely

doing it for its internal use first of all for its internal use, for the kremlin 's use, in order to show the world that there are, you know , opportunities, as putin said, to return the historical lands of novorossiya, this is currently the last version that i see. the thing is that russia does not fully control any of the areas where the so-called referendum was held, none including luhansk and, moreover, over it, at the moment there is a real threat that ukraine will regain control over a number of settlements in donbas, this is a real absolute situation, that is, these territories are will resemble shagreen leather in one way or another,

russia understands this well, that is why we are talking about the threat of the use of nuclear weapons, etc., an interesting signal is that putin uh well, we understand that in russia nothing is done without putin at the highest level to speak hastily in the process of the accession of the new, if you can say so, russian lands to russia and the corresponding meetings of the state duma and the federation council, that is, the meetings of the federal assembly will take place on the third and fourth of october here at the beginning of next week maybe they want to give putin a gift for his seventieth birthday in this way and don't want to drag out the process for a long time, i don't know, but rather i assume that we are talking about a certain political bargain

well, we are fine with you and the viewers of espresso . where there are no voter lists, where there are no legislative grounds for er to conduct er this is true well, there are none, and by the way, andriy magera, who i already mentioned, repeated once in our country we do not have the practice of such local referendums, we have similar decisions er, the verkhovna rada should carry out even more so in conditions of war in conditions of martial law, a local local referendum, well, it’s simple, it’s simply one hundred percent delusion, therefore, from a legal point of view, it should not be

taken into account. russia is realizing the right of the strong. that against the background of the announcement of these referendums, putin announced a limited mobilization that will be limited only by the appetites of the russian military moss and after the announcement of the mobilization, none other than putin's foot soldier mr. kadyrov announced to chechnya there will be no mobilization, we are already planning on mobilization, we have exceeded who in the kremlin did not croak a single word of sand, did not open his mouth, you understand that this is actually a new feudalism, when you submit, you can say to your friend, yes, you went there, i have a problem inside the republic at the moment due to significant losses and i cannot do that in dagestan, the situation is somewhat different there are other statements, but still shpak remains a fact , that is, russia has now opened pandora's box very

actively and it is not that she just opened it, she opened it the content is raked into two hands, and therefore, against this background, i think that russia continues to maneuver. in what sense does it want to do, it wants this situation, i would say to delay a little and now try to blackmail the west, understanding that the west is nervous about the prospect of using nuclear weapons, try to say that russia will act aggressively and, against this background, try to put pressure on the west so that the west, in turn, will put pressure on ukraine and force ukraine to sit down at the negotiating table in the current autumn, which is unfavorable for conducting hostilities

time for active actions, russia needs a respite, this is an absolutely obvious reality and a respite in various issues that currently exist, both human and material and technical, and the actual search for the latest technologies under sanctions, that is, russia needs a respite in this war, which the whole world has already seen, is not a special military operation, is not a blitzkrieg, which is a serious challenge for russia, which is destroying russia and destroying russia from the inside, so there will be mutually exclusive statements, but it does not mean that putin gave up on the idea of ​​destroying ukraine, but at best he understood that it could not happen in three days. well, yevgeny, as we

speak, information has appeared that the united states of america has called on its citizens to leave russia immediately. we remember that there were such calls before february 24, when washington warned its citizens that it was dangerous to stay in ukraine. obviously, they already knew exactly when russia would strike ukraine. we remember how diplomats left kyiv for lviv and then from lviv they also went to spend the night in poland, but the states and the americans in general are a marker in this war, because it is very important to simply observe this, it seems to me that in ukraine they underestimated all these warnings of biden about a possible attack, and the fact that the united states of america calls on its citizens to leave russia immediately doesn't the fact that the russians have already made some decisions regarding the use of heavier chemical or

nuclear weapons against ukraine mean the use of even chemical or even nuclear weapons - this will be a process, what a precedent which will change the entire picture of international life, changing the route forever, regardless of the power of the weapon that will be used, that is, chemical weapons, its use as well as bacteriological - this is prohibited by various international conventions, and here, well, i have cautious optimism about this, it will not be what, well, how to say use of combat poisonous substances - this is a significant development of events - this is an obvious war crime, it is clear that russia has already committed a lot of them and it would seem that one more, one

less is not of fundamental importance, but i don't think so i think that the meaning is all about the use of nuclear weapons, tactical nuclear weapons, because an intercontinental ballistic missile is not suitable for the impression of the territory of ukraine, but the prospects for the use of nuclear weapons are , of course, unpleasant, but this is an element of psychological pressure, first of all, i would like to remind you that in wartime nuclear weapons were used only in 1945 by the united states against japan. they were used in order not to gain an advantage specifically on the battlefield, as well as to break japan's will to resist, and this is a significant measure

the use of nuclear weapons, this task has been completed in ukraine. i understand that different things can be assumed, but there is a position of, let's say, the diligent general zabrodsky , expressed accordingly three weeks ago regarding the fact that even the use of nuclear weapons, ukraine's desire for resistance has not changed, and i think that we should move away from this position we must also understand that the president will not speak any phrase, i mean the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi, that he will not utter phrases that russia may consider as a provocation the use of nuclear weapons, this must also be realized because a dangerous

maniac is acting against us, who, well, practically, i would say there are no rational restrictions. although, on the other hand, many western politicians today, in fact, angela merkel said that putin's threats must be treated rationally and they must be evaluated as well such things are really serious, i will quote her, yevgeny , i actually wanted to ask about merkel today, she gave an interview judochesaiton and the former chancellor said you should take his words seriously the attitude towards his words should not be dismissed as a bluff. and taking them seriously is in no way a sign of weakness, a sign of political wisdom that helps preserve room for maneuver or, just as importantly, even develop

a new, well, space is meant, so definitely, well , position in the middle of europe she is, i would say difficult, that is, it is no secret that a number of european politicians seek reconciliation as soon as possible and putin is targeting them precisely by threatening to use nuclear weapons. merkel has been for a long time putin's visas, and well, the construction of the second northern stream, at least, and other actions that exist at the moment, but she is already a former chancellor, now all the completeness of decisions still rests on the acting chancellor, despite the fact that olaf schulz has been diagnosed with epilepsy and is

accordingly limited in communication with by his subordinates with his colleagues, etc., that is, putin is trying to use nuclear blackmail not only against ukraine, here it is worth recalling the words of mr. shoigu last week that nato is fighting against russia and accordingly, i think this will be a thesis that will also be heard in. well, so to speak in russian circulation that we are fighting against nato, well, of course. they cannot say that they are losing the ukrainian army, because for the russians it will be a complete collapse. especially for those people who are subject to mobilization, they are unclean. and we know for sure since september 21 of this year, mobilization has been announced in russia for the third time in the last 108 years, the first time it was 1914, before the first world war

, nicholas ii mobilized citizens, we know how it all ended well, during the second world war the war, which in the soviet union was called the great patriotic war, on june 3, 1941, at the same time, at the same time, many people in russia are fleeing from mobilization, a blogger from kazakhstan, ot, for example, asked refugees from mobilization from russia difficult questions in quotation marks, whose crimea or donbas and whose pavlodar we will listen to the answers

мы мы будем скажите it's just russian, not ukraine , that's right and donets luhansk, the territory of the inhabitants of them, here are the views, yes, guys, how do they answer, look, they answer it, the territory, how are the people who live there, and pavlo, yes, tell me pavloberl можно вопрос можно не казабская земля официонал and if it is not official да почему есть только это просмоть, well, and russian propagandists are already talking about the fact that uh, the ministry of defense will not catch fugitives from the mobilization of skabeev. there, uh

, she was just howling on the air about the mobile military commissariat about those who run away, let's also look at skabeeva , it became known сегодня есть же the public who is running, let them run minimarono they said we will not catch anyone at the same time it is reported that when leaving the territory of the russian federation requests cross the er border towards georgia at the border crossing lars will open the mobile military enlistment office in the near future. well, it's so simple to understand for those who really want to go somewhere from kazakhstan. on this day with russian president putin, so today he said early in the morning, a huge number of people have arrived in kazakhstan in the past few days, so the ministry of internal affairs reports that if a citizen subject to mobilization will be announced in

search in российской федерация kazakhstan will immediately send mr. yevhen home, how can mobilization change the map of russia itself, taking into account the speeches in dagestan well, i think that in the caucasus, if i'm not mistaken, there are about 25 million people who are territorially included in the russian federation, important in case looks like a tool, you mentioned the actions of nicholas ii before the first world war, that is, putin acts as a tool of the beginning of the 20th century in the conditions of a larger war of the 21st century, a high-tech war, you understand, you can mobilize as much as you want, but the influence of the heimers

if russian propaganda didn't try to level it, nothing would work. well, everything doesn't work, and the word heimers is for the russian mobs , it will be powerful. and if we remember that the mobs with the so-called dpr, that is, their wives complained that they were raped by chechens, well, it's some kind of a new form of combat brotherhood. to be honest, i would say that it was not so common before, so you can get an idea of ​​the situation inside the so-called allied forces. you know what russia says about the allied forces of the russian people's republic of china and the people's republic of china, well, this is a known fact now about the question by the way, which i think our viewers are also worried about whether russia will declare war on ukraine. i think that no, the answer to this question is very

simple. why, because by declaring war on ukraine, russia recognizes its subject equality with any russian federation , then war can be declared only equals and therefore, accordingly, ukraine did not declare war on the so-called dpr and lpr at the beginning of the year, because in this way it would actually be the recognition of these self-proclaimed republics, and therefore russia, in any case, throws out information that literally at the beginning of october a counter-terrorist operation will be announced, as well as simulating the incorporation of new lands into the russian federation, how will mobilization change, mobilization will change the russian federation to the extent that coffins or bags from ukraine

with the dead and such soldiers will come to different regions of russia, i.e. by announcing mobilization putin actually started a countdown to his stay in power because on the one hand it will be people who will go through this war and see what the russian army is like from the inside and on the other hand it there will be families of the killed russian soldiers, well, it is absolutely clear what awaits them here, and while russia is gathering people for a small war with ukraine in finland, it can build a fence in the south-eastern part of the border with russia for 2-3 years, finnish border guards report, the department plans to protect only 10-20% of the

1300 km long border. in this way, the length of the fence will be from 130 to 200-60 km, so we have been thinking for eight years what to do with the large border that we have with russia, which with belarus, which under the control of the russian federation, but you are a supporter of the fact that there should be some kind of big fence, which arseniy yatsenyuk once tried to build, as far as i remember, and well, how can i be safe when you are surrounded on two sides to the north and east, and for half a day we have with the annexed crimea well, it’s just that the neighbors and the supporter are a little bit different, i’ll tell you about it now, but i’ll mention another interesting fact that i saw literally yesterday, only two parliaments remained to

ratify the agreement on the accession of finland and sweden to nato, this is the parliament of turkey and hungary may have the most difficult parliaments, but both of these countries' leaders have demonstrated their ability to negotiate, and this is important in my opinion. well, maybe because, you know, when people start bargaining, they already demonstrate a willingness to concede their own position. horse border to putin's hometown is 70 km. this is a very serious psychological challenge for putin and for his whole family and for medvedev himself, who issues such aggressive messages there as if he himself is sitting in a trench somewhere under a bachmouth. although he sits somewhere in the kremlin cabinet and he is a political nothing there, mr. yevgeny, he is under the bacchus. he

just sits. well, being under the bacchus is more natural for him than under the bahmut, absolutely apt. and now about what fence i am for, i am not for the fence, i am for the dismantling of russia, how because we have to understand that even the restoration of the territorial integrity of ukraine will not stop russia, that is, if ukraine restores its territory even if and when it goes to the border in 1991, it is recognized by the whole world that against the background of the mobilization there is a wave of revanchism, and such the wave that adolf hitler on this wave will be seen as just a child from the sandbox because he did not have such a powerful television, he did not have computer networks and, accordingly , completely different, therefore i am in favor of the russian federation being dismantled dismantled and divided into

dozens wombs of different countries, this is a completely realistic scenario and our western partners should be aware of its realistic thank you mr. yevgeny for the conversation on our air this was yevhen magda executive director of the institute of world politics i wish you good health all the best sir yevgeny, friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel and also on our social networks, join our social networks, subscribe to youtube on facebook. if you are watching us on youtube now, please like this video so that it can be promoted in youtube trends. you can become a sponsor of our youtube channel of our work under this video there is a sponsor button, you can go there and choose one of the three options in order to support us

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video and other videos. next, we continue to broadcast tv channel espresso. you will see news and also a grid of new programs that will be released after the news. so do n't switch, stay with us. i wish you good health and all the best, we will meet tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. we will talk about what is happening in the eastern, southern and northern fronts of ukraine, and of course about the actions of our new neighbor the russian federation thank you all for your attention. until tomorrow, the program was conducted by serhiy rudenko. goodbye