well, the intervention of the state, the intervention of the state, the economy, the cleaning of a share of the state. i would not have practiced it like that, i characterized it as forced measures that relate more to the security sphere, including energy security, and an increase in the role of the state. what we are talking about is that according to the strategic course of the liberal economy , states do not do less in the economy, so i would not take it that way. i understand that if it were not for the war, we would have to change our minds several times because of speak prepare but in this case if we are talking about genetic independence, then this is, in principle, er, and an understandable step in relation to a-and in relation to the bank, er, it is possible to open or create

an additional bank that would be created by ukrposhta , then there can be any, any, er thoughts and i understand that by the way there is a decision, it has not been fully adopted, it is still under discussion , in general, it seemed to me that there were still a few more weeks because it was simply postponed, this discussion was going on for some time. -e of active discussion and then just this one the discussion fell silent and everyone took a pause. that is, the discussion does not continue there. well, once again, with regard to the energy sector, it is a sector-specific situation, and there is more, after all, all this is considered from the point of view of us temporary, temporary, we can say measures. well, they unfortunately, they are not marked like that, but thank you very much for the clarification, mr. oleg, mr. oleg ustenko, adviser to the president of ukraine on

issues , was in our marathon. thank you. will be very difficult, so to speak, to be exploited in the near future, do you remember how vladimir putin said about the submarine, the submarine course of the channel was melting, the explosions on the northern streams , many people are inclined to believe that this is sabotage by the russians, maybe even by some underwater drones on something like this device could be used, the times writes about it, and again, britain and the americans are considering exactly this possibility, contact us at the address of mlanta, an analyst at the stockholm research center the address of eastern europe welcomes you. thanks to ukraine for the fact that the northern streams that exist are being built, this is in particular such an energy needle on the part of the russian

federation for the european union, and it turns out that it literally took several incidents of underwater cotton in order for this idea to last for a long time, if not forever. remained in the past address, tell us a little more about the importance, maybe even the historicity of this event, how germany reacted in particular, what does it mean for russia and, of course, for ukraine, please, well, probably this in fact, not so much for this technical project, it is catastrophic, because it is probably possible to repair it, but here, rather, the question is, uh, why did it happen, and there, well, the most likely version of the version that i read is that russia did it herself, because she doesn't want to pay for what she

doesn't, she gives more gas for germany, there are contracts there and she is now violating these contracts and thus russia wants gazprom not to pay for the violation of these contracts oh my god you just know what andresov, you switched to ukrainian. but how am i? i missed this moment, but i, but i'm terribly impressed, terribly nice. thank you very much for this , for this attention and for these efforts, and what some ukrainians er-er lack- lack those efforts , and andreas er-er did it. well, can you explain in your address, there were several ideas about what could have been done by non-russians. well, for example , mr. sikorskyi, the polish former minister

of foreign affairs, the city of defense of poland, wrote about this first, and indeed, at first glance, it may not have been profitable for the russians to blow up such strategic so much more important are these branches of gas supply or do they think that they will never return to being partners of europe? yes, i, too, do not rule out at all that it could be some other actor here, e-e. perhaps it was also, let's say, a russian non -governmental structure like it must have been the murder of dari dugina, where i think it must have been a really russian group that killed dugin dugina, but it was not the fsb or some other government structure in russia. that is, i do not rule out that there may be others but most e this is probably useful for russia itself, because in

any case, it does not supply gas to europe at the moment, and thus there is now a technical problem for this, and therefore gazprom will not pay a fine for not complying, why not to the land part of these threads to do what they are generally good at staging an emergency situation , why? i don't know where to wait i think there will be studies and there will be more empirical data and we will know better what actually happened there, but now there are just deductions

. with these turbines that were repaired, they came to germany, germany handed over these turbines to russia, and russia said that they allegedly did not come or something was wrong there, that is, russia does not want to fulfill these contracts, gazprom does not want to fulfill these contracts that it has hmm let's say with by german and other european energy companies and er and there for gazprom it can be well, i am very negative if he does not fulfill this counter in this way he cannot now fulfill these contracts er and a sanctions well this is a counter -san - this is de-facto from er-er from russia, she wants. well, this is the pressure er-er, well, let's continue on to the european er-er economy and well,

there really is. there will be different will there be economic reasons and there rather for a problem for industry than for e for citizens and for industry and we need large volumes of gas oh oh well, i know that we ukrainians are often prone to all kinds of conspiracy theories and that's why we have to be careful about the topic but nevertheless we try to speak different versions here's what you mentioned about the fact that a non-governmental group, some russian group, could be behind it, it seems very interesting to me because it's like what, well, it's absolutely, it would be some radicals who are trying to burn bridges in this way to push the establishment, including businesses and the establishment, to understand that there must be a war there until the last russian, conditionally speaking, let's assume this as a working hypothesis, but this

observation has an interesting saying. it has a saying that russia has quasi-state structures which actually have the capabilities of the state, the state capabilities, because it is not within the power of the average statistical power to carry out such a sabotage. structures because well, as i said, is it for grace herself, this is the most useful option now, because there are these contracts that russia is currently violating, mr. andreas, there are a few more important points, is this pipe subject to repair, and today it became known that there are new damages, it seems, berehova reports to the security of sweden, yes, but, nevertheless, new ones have been breached. because there are, it seems that

if russia still needs to pump gas to europe, and europe will have to on some basis the toilet is the only way to get it just the ukrainian gas transportation system, in your opinion, is this an argument for us in this game, please, it could be well, as far as i know, one of these three pipes is there, it remains uh, well, work , that is, it still works there for two uh- e pipes e-e of the northern stream one and two of the northern stream 2 and e since i know one is still working that is and and this too well, it also reminds me that russia still wants e through e-e this stream to send gas to europe and this

if so and uh well uh such a statement that we can if you open if there will be less sanctions then we i guess we will supply you with gas again, and it is related to the ukrainian gas transport system. i don't know. well, the war is going on, and i don't think that there will be anything else. by the way, this new branch of the baltic piper has opened, explosions, , took place very close directly very close to this highway. i have already read that the norwegian government is going to use the military in order to protect this branch as well as the lawn, as far as norway will be able to compensate for the refusal of russian oil from russian gas to what extent will europe be able to become completely independent after this winter, for now, as far as i

know, it is difficult because the volumes that came to siberia through different streams and through ukraine through belarus through the baltic sea are large volumes and even now this is the whole problem for for such countries for exactly because well, now there is no infrastructure to get all this gas from other countries, from norway, from africa, from asia, that is, it is now for this winter, it will be a big problem, but, well, it seems to me that it is all well, he will decide, that is, now these warehouses, well, i'm there for gas, they're already full in germany, and there probably won't be such a deep crisis in germany. but it will be a problem

in the coming years to build an alternative infrastructure . of the germans about the readiness of the germans to accept russians who are evading and fleeing from mobilization, and this is contrary to the position of, say, the baltic countries, and so that it does not happen later, as recently the ursula state line fund had to recognize the reason of the baltic leaders for 20 years and 30 years ago and i want to draw attention to one important point today, germany has become a refuge for many ukrainians fleeing from the war, and the paradox of the situation is that a country that attacked another country also has people fleeing from the war, but are these people are definitely opponents of putin, opponents of this war, and

will they not create a situation when ukrainians and russians will have to fight each other actually on the territory of germany, well, i mean at least there will be some tensions of the conflict and so on we can see from the very beginning of the war. yes, this is a big problem for germany. because here there is a philosophy in the constitution and in general, in the legislation, there is such a philosophy, such a big political one, they don't have any walkie-talkies. e influence on the individual rights of people, i.e. if this person , if this person has the right to a refugee , i.e. if this person is threatened by something in his native country, then this person has the right to live in germany,

even to receive some support from the state as a refugee. what is there and what is this person thinking and whether does she support the war or not? what is the political situation, the international situation - it is not for this legislation, it does not play a role. that is, it is an individual right, and there is such a conflict with these institutions, well, they are the foundation of the entire constitution of countries such as germany, that is, i i understood this whole idea and the baltic countries and even finland, they are already there, they have a different policy, but in countries like germany it will be a big problem . threatens

russia they get the right to very often, in my opinion, unfairly, ukrainians blame germany for the fact that the support for our country is not the same . social payments and those expenditures from the german budget that are allocated to our refugees, mainly women and children in germany, this is colossal money, this is colossal support for which one cannot help but be grateful. but i am interested in russian refugees they will deserve the same preferences and they will be given to them, this is a good question, well , there is a little bit, this is already a different, more-refugee. these are ukrainians, it is mainly in this area, well, women and children, and,

pensioners, too, are coming here now men, yes, they will also receive some kind of state support if it is, well, they will go through some process of recognition of refugee status, if they receive this refugee status, they will also be entitled to some, well, very basic state support. thank you address for participating in we do not stop thanking our program for your ukrainian language. andrea sulland , an analyst at the stockholm center for eastern european studies, spoke with us about the actual situation on the european continent, with a focus on germany and its reflections on recent events, and now we are looking at some e- eh more east eh actually on our continent and let's talk about exactly where russian

citizens are fleeing from mobilization eh contact us dimash adzhanov kazakh political scientist we will now switch to the russian language hello dimash good morning tell me if you have at least approximate data about the number of russian citizens we can now talk about new arrivals from the moment of the announcement of the mobilization in the russian federation to kazakhstan now the moment of the announcement after all that is the case and these numbers are decided by here are the currents at the checkpoints in the north of kazakhstan, they do not stop , that is, people go and go.

it is forbidden to leave the territory of the russian federation, by the way, because martial law has not been declared there . until now , the permission of the commissariats is necessary, even though the ministry of defense of the russian federation is literally just recently . what is the situation in connection with the superior russians now directly in kazakhstan, eh, i confess that i do not have a very good understanding of how kazakhs support what is happening in ukraine now the sides of the russian federation, or how much they support the ukrainian people, we see different a-a cases, there are those who are on the side of russia, there are those who are on the side of ukraine, this is a fact , but nevertheless, what kind of colors does it bring to the life of kazakhstan and kazakhs ? the mass of russian citizens who

continue to enter them for this, let me remind you that you do not even need a russian foreign passport according to the internal document, they can do it safely . if you are now in kazakhstan, then according to nektom, this is a figure of more than 200,000 citizens. we all see what is happening in ukraine, the attack on ukraine, war crimes by the russian army, this naturally creates a general negative background in relation to putin's regime and in relation to citizens, who does not clearly express their political position in this case, the second moment - it's internal the economic situation after it began to pass and

include the introduction of russian sanctions, they also affected kazakhstan, since we are part of a single economic community with russia, and it significantly affected the population of kazakhstan, that is, the population's income decreased, and domestic prices increased and now he has a large number of russians, this is also a big pressure to increase labor and increased mobility in the country, and the third factor is russian aid, what kind of regime is it to hold power in january. we have problems with by communication i understand that, so we lost communication, i think now we are trying to resume the conversation with dimashim aldzhan, a kazakh political scientist. to understand them to a certain extent well, this is a

debatable issue, i cannot understand any position of the russians in this situation, but if we have already heard the reaction, perhaps it is just zelenskyi zelenskyi well, you don't want to die, run away well, they are running away like this okay, if you have already mentioned protokayev, then it will probably be appropriate to quote him. the fact is that he promised the russians fleeing to kazakhstan to provide security. sorry for the tautology, they will be given help and everything necessary for security, but they do not receive it. no preferences, in recent days many people from russia are coming to us and most of them are forced to leave because of the hopeless situation that has developed. we must show concern for them and ensure their safety, this is a political and humanitarian issue, i.e. i like the very wording, he says about the hopelessness of the situation in the russian federation,

does he mean well, i do not know the fate of the political regime in russia or the fate of the russians themselves who are sent to war, the question is still open . but at the same time, kazakhstan really continues to occupy a very i would say an interesting isolated position , remaining in many documents and organizations as co-members with the russian federation, but taking a not very subjective position. hey, we have a little more time to continue our conversation. you said about the takayev factor, and actually, that he also needs to preserve power in the country, and you reminded us about the economic situation in kazakhstan due to the sanctions against the russian federation and in the whole world, it is not just economic, practically nowhere, if we talk about the president of kazakhstan

now, and how he looks in the eyes of society, in the eyes of his active ego, and in the general kazakh people, it has been some time already after the protests, which we also watched very closely, and they happened in kazakhstan a few years ago . the constitution is a video for one of the seven-year term, that is, instead of holding elections in two years, when the constitutional five-year term ends, time has repented, and it is playing the situation in order to get elected as soon as possible and solve its problems the presidency for the next seven er years in general er realizing how long the situation will go away

and russia is becoming today and disruptions er in the world a-a and uh, the previous diplomatic career in order to position ourselves much better in the eyes of uh, western countries, especially this was raised during the re-election period. remember, there are no elections in kazakhstan's democracy - it is there that they are certified and learn their own language after these elections and get engaged in support of what russia is doing, he is now actively working in this direction. this is the same problem in

that it can't close the borders now , the order of the liver is also forced to accept russian citizens who are fleeing the city. russians make up the official circle of the fifth. in addition, it is not a secret uhu speaks directly eh russians never eh did not restrain themselves in their display of eh imperial such superiority how to say it in russian how are the nations, how are the imperial nations, the titular imperial nations, ah , don’t send them, won’t they strengthen them? here’s the mass emigration of russians, even more, these are probably from

the existing ones. yes, it's a contradiction. they are quite often they are in kazakhstan when, for example, there are enough russians there, and they want to be served only in their language , etc. kazakhs are cossacks for us, that is, it is a part of the united nation, that is why we sometimes have difficulties, as in any end of a multi-ethnic country, where animals are not, not, not the same, culturally. such miracles happen, but they are not recognized problems and problems with a political dimension are no longer recognized. as for visitors to

russia, we must understand that the process of the collapse of the empire is now underway. нахкладиватесь historical memory of the past colonial oppression in the soviet union. they will be loud, they will be very much experienced in the same way in russia and in neighboring countries, and this process also falls into the process of national building, the decolonization of the former soviet republics, so what we see today is possible, this is only the beginning of everything that is possible, we will become witnesses of more serious

conflicts and reactions of society, especially in social networks, not only in kazakhstan, in georgia, and in a number of other popular countries we will give a premium, security, but no preferences, and this is a very interesting moment. when visiting , it is very difficult for them. one of the state languages ​​is the kazakh language and the second language is the language of the inter-national communication, it is

russian in general, our country is грнгнвестическая, i.e., russian-speaking people live here, only hiding the problem that the state does not have a clear policy in this regard, very well organized politicians are moving towards integration. i am a supporter of the state language being studied, especially if new people come and they try to enroll and get a job in kazakhstan, it is for their own benefit and in order to state services were available, and the state language is necessary to learn, and for this, it is necessary to create certain conditions for employers and new immigrants to gradually integrate . i think i will like it with time, spas, thank you dimash