with ukraine and so-and-so. so-and-so was a military test, you know, if you can call it that, and there was an attempt to seize the ukrainian island of tuzla. control over it gave kyiv the right to charge for the passage of ships into the sea of ​​azov. by the way, on september 29, 2003, moscow began to build a dam to the island as managed to settle that conflict and prevent the capture of ukrainian territory . my colleagues know about it and they put it in the plot material let's watch a rehearsal of the annexation of crimea , so today, 19 years later, it can be called russian-ukrainian conflict around the island of tuzla the island itself is a small piece of land with an area of ​​200 hectares located in the kerch strait between the ukrainian crimea and the krasnodar region of russia. for ukraine, here it broke an important financial value. by controlling it, kyiv had the right to charge for the passage of ships in the sea of ​​azov 29 on september 1, moscow encroached on ukrainian

territory unilaterally, starting to build a dam to the island, the work went on in three shifts every day, the dam increased by 150 meters russian the mass media spread the thesis that tuzla is, as it were, original russian territory, and therefore its return is legal and justified, this caused protests in ukraine, the conflict escalated rapidly , president leonid kuchma interrupted his visit to latin america and went to tuzla, a reinforced detachment of border guards was already stationed there and they began to build the perimeter of the pond the verkhovna rada called moscow's actions an unfriendly act, the ukrainian foreign ministry initiated the consultations provided for in the budapest memorandum, and in the end, president kuchma and putin met on october 23, 2003, the construction of the dam was stopped 100 m from the state border. and already in december, the leaders signed an agreement on cooperation in the use of the sea of ​​azov and the kerch strait.

however, even after that, moscow refused to recognize tuzla as ukrainian territory, so let's return to our airwaves and continue the actual topic that's where it all started, it all started with tuzla, the first such trial ball of probing and er then kuchma probably understood for the first time er where i am and what kind of country i 'm building then before that the distance got confusing but enough then it is necessary to recognize the behavior of the ukrainian-tatar people refata gaw we congratulate you glory to ukraine glory to the heroes good day i think you can don't remind me about this tuzli like that 19 years ago and why in your opinion and at what expense was it possible to stop the otaku creeping russian aggression, then we know that it was eventually realized on the crimean peninsula, and

then not on donbas, now we see the continuation of this whole story of attempts to continue on the part of the russian federation, but a tiny sting it seemed like that then, it was very symbolic, it was really the case that russia was stopped, in your opinion, mostly because of the fact that historical objectivity requires that i correctly call this crimean tatar sharp - this is evil, that is, that is salty, salty island, but now we’re talking about tuzla . well, let there be tuzla, ah, to the constants that were distributed in the direction of ukraine and were supposed to explain the true intentions of russia and moscow regarding ukrainian independence in general, i don’t think that

russia was scared then and it saw some of its own military incompetence they had to reach a certain level as who among you said to feel this situation for themselves and draw conclusions at that time that they did what uh such an open and frank seizure of this territory would lead to a greater resonance than then they could afford but us eh that situation did not lead to serious lessons if you remember i think you still remember the audience after tuzla the topic of the so-called crimean bridge, which will provide the opportunity to establish special not only

friendly but economic relations with russia and so on. nevertheless, ukrainian society as a whole and a ukrainian politician at that time still responded to that challenge and delayed the techniques, perhaps he appeared so aggressive and on the part of russia, i was in the group at that time deputies of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, we went to the island of tuzlo several times, we met with the military, we asked about various options, i can confirm today that our border guards were then ready for the rarest actions if the russians dared to attack. thank you it seems p arfaden? at that time, it would be possible to predict that there were people who even then said they warned that the crimea map would be played out sooner or later. in the end, the russians had a

lot of politicians, popular politicians, who literally spoke openly about plans for annexation invasion of crimea ah, and nevertheless, well, ukrainian, ukrainian, we often behaved like an ostrich, even burying its head in the sand . let's remember the kharkiv agreements, etc. i remember that the crimean tatars were constantly accused of some kind of disloyalty - this existed as a kind of refrain even in the mass-mess-mess of the mass media in the establishment , you can remember the near independence, such uh-uh, not only bells, because they were such serious attempts by russia, well, let's say to interfere with the intelligence of the

independent ukrainian state. i am now. while you were asking, i mentioned and one of the first decisions was the resolutions of the supreme council of the russian federation at the time, headed by khasbulatov with pictor and they made a decision about sevastopol, said sevastopol, where is er, it is er, the territory of russia, it was not transferred together with crimea for soviet songs and so on myshkovkina is the landing of the russians, look what, but then there were still factors that prevented russia from focusing on the ukrainian direction. the first

chechen war. somewhere there is an opportunity to strengthen one's ukrainianness, the ukrainian state, to such a vulnerable region as crimea, but the kyiv of that time was a political kyiv, a ukrainian politician in general, and the presidents who came one after another did not implement a coherent and comprehensive state policy regarding crimea and, in particular, regarding the restoration of the rights of the crimean of the tatar people, you are absolutely right now that russia has always created a parallel background, the background is so informative, and in this background, she used the theme of returning to the tsarist of the people as an alleged threat to the ukrainian

state, there is another problem that you and i cannot avoid talking about today, ah, the problem of the stay of the crimean tatars, who are citizens of the state of ukraine, at the same time, as i understand, they may have occupation passports are simply for physical survival on the temporarily occupied peninsula, they are now trying to evacuate themselves and leave the borders of the russian federation, beyond the borders of the currently occupied crimea, and the situation is very difficult when the border guards of various countries and the baltic states of poland, if not i'm wrong, they are telling our ukrainian tatars what the situation is, tell me in a little more detail. well, first of all, i would like to remind everyone that immediately after the occupation of crimea in 2014 , russia carried out forced passporting of all

residents of crimea, and then it was already clear that, uh, without this education, you simply cannot survive in it is not possible for crimea to remain in crimea, because the russians could at any moment include the rules of their legislation regarding the rules of staying on their territory, and they considered crimea illegally. of course, but they considered it theirs. territory and therefore, well, practically all the residents of crimea, they, uh, were passported, these voters, and the position of our state, it was included, excluded, clear that this does not mean uh, citizenship of russia, and there were uh, resolutions of popular organizations, including, therefore, citizens of ukraine hey, the residents of crimea have now become men

of military age, they have become the object of priority modernization, because moscow's goal is to recruit more crimean tatars, ethnic ukrainians, let's not forget that there are at least 500,000 of them and direct them as cannon fodder and war against their own brothers and citizens and their ukrainian state. the crimean tatars, overwhelmingly strong, responded to impale the president of ukraine between the forests of the crimean tatar people in order to avoid mobilization and now thousands and thousands of people are trapped in the territory of third countries, well, now we know the exact number. but experts from crimea claim that it is about 50,000 people are men, possibly of compulsory age, who, along with their families , simply want to avoid mobilization, and

the situation at the borders in georgia is very critical right now, this is the first literally half an hour ago, i received information that the presidential police officers are trying to listen to several tens of residents of kryvnia from the neutral zone on the territory of russia itself. it is a difficult situation. georgian police officers are aware of what they are doing or planning to do this action in relation to ukrainian citizens, or do they perceive crimeans as russian citizens, look at the eight years of occupation. and there are a lot of people, almost the majority do not have a complete set of valid documents, which would be formal and would only care them as citizens of ukraine from the point of view of border guards of third countries, well, let's say. a person has an internal passport, but it is expired. because the person was afraid

to leave for the kherson region and er, well, let's pass the time or people had children literally. this is how they say it in most cases, born children during the occupation, they have a russian-style birth certificate because it was issued by the russian occupation administration, but the border guards require ukrainian ukrainian documents, that is, these questions are formal such reasons that do not affect the security of these countries in any way, but this was when in february- march of this year, when millions of ukrainian citizens were evacuated through poland, romania, other countries have a very liberal regime, and people almost

crossed the borders with educational certificates and driver's licenses, too many people did not have these documents, but there are primary documents that establish that they are citizens of ukraine, but we are now demanding, well, we are demanding, we spoke yesterday with the minister of border affairs and representatives of the office of the president. we need to urgently create an interagency working group, so we have now addressed only issues of border crossing . and there are a lot of questions. there is a peculiarity and mutual relationship, he said that the state with moscow should take further steps to save those people and return it to ukraine. and that's why we need to go to the topic now, whether a working group should be created immediately. i hope that during this

day it will be created in a preliminary measure, we talked about it yesterday with the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, dmytro kulev , what else? to bend our territory. it was the island of tuzla. well, about how mistakes we made , probably not, well, we ukrainians could have been more prepared with the crimean issue, but if we could have been more prepared, then we would not have been we so we are evolving together, all together, together with our government, together with our president, we are all filling up little by little, it hurts, it's hard, but we are growing up. today, in ukraine, we have another sad anniversary. the day of remembrance of the victims of the babi yar , one of the symbols of the holocaust, on september 29 in 1941 , in occupied kyiv, the nazis began mass

executions of the civilian population. in two weeks , the sesionists killed almost all the city's jews, men , women, and children. the occupiers used their actions as outright lies, saying that jews were involved in landmines and explosions on khreschatyk. jews in babi yar were shot by the nazis, as well as roma and karayoim, as well as members of the ukrainian nationalist resistance movement. in any case, this is a great tragedy, the memory of which must be preserved in order to prevent its repetition in any way. the plot of our colleagues banana, september 19, 1941 the troops entered kyiv already a week later, on the walls of the fences and offensive buildings, an announcement appeared in ukrainian , russian and german for all the ladies of the city of kyiv and its surroundings to gather on monday , september 29, 1941, by eight o'clock in the morning at

melnyka street, dopter circle of the cemetery, anyone who disobeys this order will be shot, thousands of jews, obeying the order, rushed to the women's ravine, men, women and children were forced to undress to the naked eye. the oldest , 103 years old, during the following days, more than 33,000 people were killed in babyn yar, mass killings continued here until 1943. babyn yar and its the surroundings were filled with the bodies of prisoners of concentration camps , communists, underground roma, mentally ill sailors of the dnipro flotilla, ukrainian nationalists, in total, more than 100,000 people died here, and the place became one of the world symbols of the holocaust, according to the national institute of remembrance. during the second world war, up to one and a half million people died on ukrainian lands

of the jewish nationality of the ukrainian ssr preferred not to talk about the tragedy of babiny yar and did not separate the holocaust from the context of the second world war, but the tragedy of the jews in ukraine disappeared only in the late 1980s and early 1990s, construction of the babi yar began, dozens of monuments and memorial signs were installed here, but it has not yet been possible to create a memorial complex for the victims of the holocaust due to differences in the views of the initiators of the project, so now let 's continue this topic, in particular, this is also a historical monument this is a very important moment, you know, when we talk in particular about the historical memory of western ukraine and galicia in particular because we are now in lviv and this is a very important moment lviv galicia in general urban galicia towns galicia was to a great extent the land of the ashkinazi jews and they left a huge footprint here

, including a cultural one - it is from the same, for example, joseph's mouth, i don't know about it, but one way or another, to the jewish heritage such people were tangential to galicia, as even there i don’t know austrian heritage in particular. how is it the same franz kafka as the same er, hmm, the founder of psychoanalysis, freudsigmund, i’m not even talking about bruno schulz from drohobych and so on and so on, and there is a huge number of them, as if their crossed them out as if erased by nazi germany during the holocaust and remained so unfilled unfilled than because even those jews who came after

45 together with the so-called liberators, they were completely different jews, they were jews from the soviet union, very often one was nationalized in the same way deprived of their historical memory. and this is some kind of lacuna and which is not filled and which is not composed and once the words of the slaves in the main ukraine were not terribly impressed. about this historical memory and he corrected me and very rightly he said that this is our people and if we separate the history of the babina yar as the history of exclusively jews but not jewish ukrainians , then we probably still do not understand how to correctly perceive what everything that happened happened on september 29, 1941. yosyp zislal, a public figure

and the head of the association of jewish community organizations of ukraine, with us, mr. host, have a good day. you to continue this opinion, and if your grace, to what extent do we now understand this historical memory correctly, does it not remain so, shall we say, alienated for many ukrainians, is there a problem here, a very general question, because over the past 30 years, ukraine has come a very long, wide way to the awareness of many the tragedies of the past, in particular the tragedies of the holocaust, ukraine is hard like this, everything else

, it is building its vision of the second world war, the holocaust and the women's ravine, no matter how much we don't care, but still everything is consciously moving forward and we are now later we know about the holocaust or billiards much more than we knew at the beginning. very extensive work is going on. i wish mainly by the efforts of the citizens of society and the cabinet of ministers, for example, civil society is doing a lot so that the knowledge about the world war in ukraine about the coconut entered the awareness of many citizens of ukraine, we are with this we have been doing it for about 25 years, when we left jewish schools with

this lesson and the holocaust and went to schools in ukraine, secondary schools in ukraine, and universities in ukraine. thus, i can firmly say that today in ukraine probavyn yars know much more about the holocaust than 30 years ago, much more than in other countries, this awareness is easy because there are very controlling moments in this, in particular the participation of the local population in the holocaust, but still we are moving towards this vision and i think that two more decades and the view of the majority of ukrainian citizens on these terrible times and tragedies will be quite adequate. please tell me if it is appropriate now

to compare and try to compare the ethnic genocide that took place there during the 20th century against the jews and what now also has signs of genocide against ukrainians and what the russian federation is doing on our lands because in many places i notice the idea of ​​jurisprudence is already being heard in the world it is precisely those genocidal actions on the part of the russians but very many in ukraine, he simplifies it, we are generally prone to this and notes that it is, accordingly, and the responsibility, it should be a true history of responsibility. how did the germans accept themselves and which they have been carrying for decades , for example, it is different under ugu separately definitely because what is happening now due to russian

aggression has signs similar to those during the second world war, that is, there are signs of genocide, but there are many different ones, for example, jews were exterminated only because they were jews, it was a racial approach and it is very important to realize that you exterminated only due to the fact of being born as a jew, it was impossible to make amends, it was impossible with the germans, by no means what is happening in ukraine and has certain signs of genocide, nevertheless has very separate and different circumstances between that murder, for example they kill us because we are jews or ukrainians and

they beat us because we belong to the political nation of ukraine, that is, the civil nation, that is, those ukrainians who want to live in their country, for whom freedom, independence, and sovereignty are important, the killing of ukrainians is approaching, however, citizens of ukraine who want to live in the russian peace, those who cooperate, collaborate with the aggressors and with the occupiers are not in danger of being killed, except that with the liberation of ukraine they will face the same fate as other traitors, how do you see it, there are many there is a lot in common and there is a lot of difference in the history of comparison - it is not always a very correct norm of research, but you can compare anything, the

main thing is to understand what is similar and what is different regarding responsibility, of course we would like responsibility to come to all those who gave criminal orders to and to the executors but for this it is necessary to achieve the complete defeat of russia and the occupation and division of not individual states, some of which in 30-40 years may have become democratic, because in this form, what russia is now, it cannot to be by no means democratic it can only be an authoritarian counter to the totalitarian state and this is the law of nature it is not because i am making this up that someone else has a different opinion russia cannot be democratic this is my belief this is how until ten years ago i

quarreled even with my russian dissident friends about this view thus we dream of work, responsibility, but what is ukraine today? that's how to defeat russia by crushing them as nazissa germany and imperial japan were crushed, and only then those trials that took place after the end of the second world war became possible, unfortunately, we are still far from this on our own, ukraine can only push the russian army out of the borders of 1991 with great sacrifices, but to occupy russia in my condition and inflict it like this a defeat that she deserves. we also cannot do it alone, for this we need to unite the entire civilized democratic world, but as we can see, he is not really

trying to connect to that important matter. how can the crushing of russia be over time, but now for the time being, the reason for this court is being moved away from our i literally wanted to ask for less than a minute, this remains important. it seems to me that the question is what is now with this private memorial on babiny yar and where the feature film was the director or boss. eh, diodali is financed by friedman, as it will be, and almost nothing changes , and the fact that the russian government openly supported russian projects, what do you call delicate private projects, has not changed, and this is not a russian project stands however, it still stands behind m. we have been talking about it for 6 years, but since vlad chose a different

position, billions of poods were invented more important than what stands behind it. then, well, this is the problem of our government and it will be mentioned more than once. now it is open, the project is not supported, but since yarmak is still playing with russian billionaires, i want to form some groups there that will collect money. i did not understand that he can do good for them, but you can get money, but credno remains the sponsor of this project kryzhanovsky remains an artistic director and now they are doing a very provocative thing. unfortunately, ukrainian director serhiy loznytsia takes part in all cases. those who made a film about babin yar and committed very anti-ukrainian attacks there, mr. the language of this people have heard, i suggest