it is difficult to say which element will be the most effective. that is, we understand that it will be a possible combination of manpads, although the engines of these drones are kamikaze. they have a low enough signature. that is , it is not so easy to express them with e-e using manpads, it can also be anti-aircraft artillery especially if it will be effective enough, well, the same german cheetahs, it can also be small arms, and it seems to me that in the first place, these should be means of radio-electronic warfare, because iranian drones, they are, well, let’s say, they are not that good and high-tech technologies, and we hope that with the help of our western partners, the united states and other european ecological states, we will receive the necessary means of radio-electronic warfare, which will simply destroy these kamikaze drones, traveling

ammunition at distances that are safe for us, and classic means of linear missile complexes, which are now er, as i understand it, they give the main result when covering our big cities, odessa, dnipro, that is, they are the ones who most likely kill the bulk of these mkdse drones, but such complexes are actually not like that there are already many, and they are focused on the most important objects, mr. sander, when you talked about where we need to move, you took three components : intelligence, anti-missile defense, and mobile approaches, or mobile defense gives as such, then here is your vision of how we should increase our capabilities in this second sector, related to the anti-aircraft missile defense array, from which models we have to move and where is the place of our capabilities in this process, i will start again from afar

with whom we have to do it, we see that the world the political world, er, the world, worldview. sorry for such tautologies. i have already shared and almost decided friends and not friends. if we look at the world, with whom the russians work, everything is already clear . why am i saying this? the basis of current weapons is non-metal. there is not even a threshold. and there is that microelectronics and electro-optics, which countries today have the most developed potential in this matter, this is essentially the founder of this school - it is the united states of america and the people's republic of china, which succeeded in the days of this pin get access to the financial and scientific and technical capabilities of the united states of america, and today some of our allies are even part of the people's republic of china in terms of microelectronic components

. - technologies and so on, so it is understandable. since 1991, ukraine has been hesitating . searched and came to what they came to. therefore, my recipe would be that in cooperation with companies of the united states of america, develop complexes, complexes localized with the maximum ukrainian scientific and technical components and assembly directly here in ukraine, but of course cooperating first of all with the use of their standards their already global understanding of love in order for me to invent a bicycle and not to

retire the equipment as it was 30 years ago, damn it , vyacheslav will measure up, continue the topic cooperation on means of anti-aircraft missile defense, from the point of view of all those existing models that are in the ukrainian army, those models that are proposed, how can we solve the problem of combating the enemy's ballistic missiles, which, in principle, are now a rather important component for strikes on our territory, what are the optimal ways or cooperation or obtaining new samples in your opinion well, there are not many options here, that is, those complexes that are in service with the armed forces of ukraine, their number is limited the limited number of missiles and the possibility of obtaining them in european countries is also limited due to this, the complexes were not distributed among the countries of the

warsaw pact, so we primarily have to count on western aid in the short term, that is, the complexes that are now being supplied, well, they are more against aviation and if there are more powerful american complexes, e.e., like khaot, e.e., someday ukraine will get it. maybe the issue of combating ballistic targets will be solved somehow, as long as we understand that this problem is will be preserved, that is, if the issue of barrage ammunition there, the same iranian ways, it will be resolved, the fight against guided missiles, it is clear what to do, and the means that they are one or another, with one or another effectiveness, this issue will be resolved the fight against ballistic missiles is now for us, well, let's say so, it can

have a limited result, and only the russians can come to our aid here, and if we are talking about the operational-tactical level of these systems, the number is quite limited, a significant part already was used in the first seven months of the war, that is, if you separate the ballistic components from the cruise missiles and small ammunition, then there are not so many russians left, and here, er, i can say that they will soon run out of them while we are still looking for some solutions of this problem mr. oleksandr, when we are really talking about samples of anti-aircraft or such anti-missile weapons, is it really possible to single out a list of goals that are the highest priority for us and from this we can already make certain ones, let’s say so and so counting down, what is the number of zrk of which type do we need the most, can such an approach

be applied, unfortunately, at least i said that i don't like this approach, we just have small problems with communication, and then, er, vyacheslav, the question is then up to you you mentioned the radio-electronic means of combat eh that we can use to fight the same shahid 136 and to fight against russian drones. the topic is pro-russian rap it was so dominant. we believed that russia has a certain advantage in this segment, do you feel this advantage really on the battlefield, uh, really, russian rap tools are not developed enough, they are of different levels, from small uh, such

small container-type tools against drones to powerful systems which for tens or hundreds of kilometers can influence how we talk about the tactical level. that is, if we encounter something somewhere, then the influence of the russian ribs is really felt sometimes quite strongly, that is, at the tactical level where it is mainly used or civilian means of aerial reconnaissance or, let’s say, not very powerful military ones, there may be problems with navigation. that is , it is a very common problem when the drone simply does not see satellites and its operator uses video images, that is, it orients itself on the terrain if it orients itself on the terrain is tied to the area on the tablet, that is, here

the skill of a particular operator is important and unfortunately, due to the fact that satellites disappear often enough, here or the training of the operator takes place so that they are able to work on a video signal or they lose their drones and look for funds for others and the loss of communication with the remote control also occurs. that is , the problem is more serious, that is, when there is no communication between the control station and the aerial reconnaissance and then the loss of an air reconnaissance tool is hmm more likely, that is, it really feels russian, so when it is possible to hit this or that complex of reps, the situation on a certain part of the front improves, so really, this is the one

which factor we constantly face and which we have to reckon with, but again, this russian rap is not a panacea, people continue to work and give results, and in principle, even if we are talking about the tactical level, the number of our aero-development assets does not decrease, but is increasing despite the losses from the effects of russian rap well, we will now return to the working topic, we have the founding self of mr. oleksandr oles, mr. oleksandr, i still wanted to hear your vision, how should we choose priority directions for increasing the number of these or other systems against non-defense, given a certain number of typical targets that threaten us, we understand that a typical target is, in fact

, our entire critical infrastructure, any thermal power plant, a thermal power plant - we will change it. i am not talking about the military facility in ukraine, there are thousands of them and it is unfortunately impossible to cover everything. last year, i took part in the development of a plan to protect the critical infrastructure of ukraine. unfortunately , then we already understood that it is almost impossible to save everything. from e-e to the privates and the president of our country to the western western partners that please close the sky to us because we are unable to do it ourselves, therefore, in addition to pressing the issue of supplying us with as many anti-aircraft and, most importantly, anti-missile defense equipment as possible, this is not one and i ask the theorists to understand this very thing and to understand this issue. it is precisely against missile defense that my colleagues said. and now there are already threats that have been tested, these are the so

-called arobolistic ones. well, of course, or even tactical nuclear warheads on these carriers, as it is known, is a marketing dagger against it. unfortunately, we do not have a defense yet, and we have to work with the closest rammstein, who is in the coming days . i hope he will answer this question. strengthen our potential to protect there and the air there and to fight against ground bodies when we talk there about the combination of our mig-29 platforms and american harm missiles, that is, without waiting for fighter jets, the option is taken what is more simplified from the point of view of implementation, can such approaches be implemented for other projects, the americans said that it is possible, in particular, to place cruise missiles on transport planes , ensuring their e-e with e-e dropping from the air,

such seemingly paradoxical ideas, are they adaptive for our capabilities? can we go to them in such an asymmetric way, i would like to ask this question to mr. oleksandr and then to mr. vyacheslav, what could be asymmetric solutions with great and er efficiency with a quick result, giving an answer to your previous question i meant what should we do directly now, of course, when we consider the medium-term perspective, we will try to even start, let it be medium-term from two years, of course, such politiative solutions as installation on any transport aircraft or even remember my islan, it was also considered as a carrier of any what kind of air-air-ground missiles or jdm planning munitions and so on, what are they called by the americans, well, that is, they flew bombs from 250 kg, all this can and should be done as you they asked about installing on transport planes and dropping missiles of such projects to antonov, they

were called air condition, air condition, several from twin to light ones, really the genre of the 26th - this is a beautiful, beautiful platform for attaching to it under the wing or under the fuselage several missiles of different classes, all this can and should be done only once again, i will return to the fact that everything must be systematic, everything must be thought out from the upper to the lower level, and i repeat from the upper to the lower and not as usual we still have enough of this happening, we are solving some lower problem 100 trying to create a big chimera getting to the very top , your vision of whether there is such a spectrum of asymmetric approaches in our defenses of industrial capabilities to quickly increase the capabilities to destroy

enemy targets well, if we say about valerative solutions, such as the use of air-to-air air- to-air missiles as anti-aircraft missiles, that is, in principle, this is what was implemented during the cold war in the chaparrel complex when air-to-air missiles the winder site was used as an anti-aircraft missile, then the same one on the male that we expect there is also an air-air missile is used as an anti-aircraft missile, or, for example, the israeli spider, where aviation missiles are also used as an anti-aircraft missile. missiles, for example r27, i could supplement their various modifications with short- and medium-range anti-aircraft missiles, which we have and the number of which is limited, and at least for the protection of, for example, they have

industrial facilities, that is, for combat there with cruise missiles with er-e barrage supplies tymys iranian szlakhids and strengthen our anti-aircraft defense there in the near er-e field, i.e. at the front. that is, it is like one of his examples, that is, what in theory can be implemented, well, in an acceptable time frame , you said, oleksandr this swan is known precisely for its project, is it such a multifunctional unmanned complex, is there a place for this development in the order of battle of the ukrainian army after a certain period of time, because as we understand it, we have p-20 years will be spent on a palliative solution, and then we have to come up with new system

solutions that do not give maxim an effective return, so in this sense, if you outlined this robotic air future, do we have the potential for this to realize such a future and what steps should be taken for this, you see, the war has stopped access actually and mine directly in this direction, indeed already starting from the 25th year until 2020, such aerial foreign marine unmanned platforms are robotic platforms, they will be seen more and more in the troops, well, first of all, it is in the western troops and, unfortunately, in the chinese troops, the so-called manned directly prepared platforms are what concerns the asfants directly, this is a platform for lifting in the air any air weapons air, ground, it 's the same plane, which, let's say, i won't take the

mig-29, it's heavier, but something like the korean t-50, for example, it can be said that it's a comparison plane, but it already has signs first of all, it is an unmanned aircraft, it is already an aircraft of the sixth generation, having signs of a reduced visibility of hidden storage of weapons. therefore, this aircraft is capable of penetrating through the protected protected airspace of the enemy and delivering strikes . simply will it take place and this place is already provided for by future doctrines and directly by the air forces of modern states well, what i said , the same similar ideas are already used in the concept and sea and land forces are already in use,

they are already undergoing tests and as i say, 2030, we will find it with you, we will see that it is the mechanized component that will become more and more pilotless vyacheslav please tell me your evaluations robotic platforms in the air and on the ground due to the peculiarities of the introduction of hostilities precisely with the russian federation, why is there actually so little implementation of ground robotic platforms, why the limitation of options for drones in terms of range, is it possible to say that there are some significant systemic obstacles at the level of tactics that make this such active progress impossible, or is the problem technological, technical, in what way did ugu the russians have a certain experience, it is negative, and the use of robotic platforms in syria, where they are ground platforms, the first e- eh decided on the combat conditions eh

to use eh well the problem is in principle obvious that it is difficult to make a really high-quality automated eh terrestrial platform that will search for targets by itself and determine the necessary calculations that is, it is a rather complex system, if we are talking about remote control, then the problem of ground platforms is to ensure constant communication between the operator and the platform, even for the use of repeaters, that is, in contrast to aviation platforms where, let's say, robotic systems acquire more and more more widespread and there, er, it is easier to implement it in ground platforms, well, let’s say, not so much, and this one is simple. rather, if we are talking

about ground platforms, it would be useful if it were some such remote-controlled vehicles that went ahead of mechanized convoys in case of mining of routes because it is no secret that mining from both sides leads to, let's say, significant losses in both people and equipment and unfortunately, it is in our squad, because you will lose it on the copper fields, including your own, uh, that's why this is such a ground platform, let's say so, uh, demining , it would really be very useful in modern conditions, if we are talking about a combat platform equipped with weapons, then there are many m-m questions to what extent it will be effective. oleksandr, when you spoke from the point of view of the vision of the future and the third

pillar of our competitive advantages on the battlefield, there should be a mobile defense system. or maybe other components related to mobility. i would like to hear you outline this the third component , or later to understand how to implement it in practice, is very well connected to a foreign component, then an armored personnel carrier or a tank will still not replace it, because manpower must be transported somehow, so it will not be about the fact that there will be an unmanned armored personnel carrier, that is true. when we we are talking about mobile systems, it should essentially be the same as in the air there is a so-called loyal introduced, that is, there is a piloted aircraft and several unmanned aircraft fly with distributed functions, one of them performs the function of sarra daru, the second performs or two more perform the function of transporting additional

weapons for the preparation of the aircraft and so on and so on the same concept of the cluster control system is used for ground and mobile and fire that is, there are conventionally several mobile command posts next to which, from a short distance, in order to be able to enter a protected radio communication, which is still difficult to suppress, there are unmanned combat vehicles, but of course they are driven by some human commanders, so far we are not talking about that that will be applied as we went with you quantum super hypercomputers said that they will perform exactly that when i said the search and destruction of targets directly already without human participation this will happen someday but before that we still have to live vyacheslav about mobility, the need for tanks will not go anywhere, and the need for armored personnel carriers and the like will not go anywhere, but they will be reinforced, supplemented by some

aircraft as well, an optionally piloted aircraft, that is, a fighter from which the front part can be detached and instead of a pilot to place additional equipment ot something like this and on the ground already has its own gradual has its application so far on the field of god cannot be replaced, but when we talk about mobility on the battlefield or the increase in mobile defense, that is general volodymyr gavrylov, the deputy minister of defense for armaments, spoke literally last week at a conference in the united states where he spoke about our needs and he told such an approach that now winter is approaching and it would be very good conditionally that is to say, have a significant number of e-e hummers, which units are equipped with secure communication, a significant number of attack drones , command - these are such mobile groups and that these groups are relatively active in the winter period

acted by destroying the enemy's targets, that is, once again switching to a fragmented format of using our capabilities, to what extent is such a concept realistic , because on the one hand, the enemy has bt tanks, on the other hand, such small mobile groups, how effective can this direction be and give results on the battlefield in of course, it can not only be effective, but also during the war, it showed its effectiveness, because mobile groups, for example, against tanks, they are actively used, they will introduce an active search, and their destruction or, for example, is used to cover e-e flanks e-e rear and so on, that is, mobile actions can definitely be effective and indeed now the problem of transport for us is well one of the most urgent because in fact we see with our own eyes the use

of civilian vehicles four-wheel drive, i.e. these cars with which the bulk of our infantry are equipped, primarily the territories, they simply can not drive off the asphalt, and if we are talking about at least some dirt there, that is, the kharkiv offensive the operation there was quite actively used infantry units on these gazelka tanks and so on and so on and they reached their goal solely because there was no rain when we were returning from the russian border to the base and it rained a little, we were on four-wheel drive vehicles and let's say so they left with problems, and these civilian cars simply will not come out a second time, this is the use in our armed forces of a large number of stupid four-wheel drive vehicles. it is, let’s say, in a not very good place

mostly in technical condition. and this is something that we also see all the time: someone skids someone, someone breaks down, is repaired, etc. and so on, that's why for us, uh, whiskey trucks, all-wheel drive, uh, hamers, and even at least 10-20 thousand new ones i emphasize new civilian pickups from western partners, this is not what was desired, all that we need, because the mobility of our army has increased significantly, and as for mobile anti-tank groups with anti-aircraft weapons , they are precisely because of some e-raid groups and banally our the infantry would become uh much more mobile in modern weather conditions because, again, an example from my own life, we arrive at two sections of the front and they tell me that you will not pass there because

tanks and bmps have broken a dirt road there and you simply cannot you will move about moves faster than we can move behind him, that is, cameras, army four-wheel drive trucks and, uh, civilian new pickups in commercial quantities - this is what we desperately need now in those weather conditions that will be in autumn, winter, spring, that is, it is completely possible here to agree with our helmsmen who say that summers e we need the necessary cameras we need some ford rangers which at one time were supplied by the united states in thousands the afghan army needs trucks in large quantities let it be some storage trucks a little bit to run out of time and i would literally like to give you 30 seconds, mr. oleksandr, what is extremely important to us in order to ensure victory on the

battlefield in the medium-term perspective, education and science and the choice of the right partners, mr. vyacheslav, your a short summary of what we need to win. yes, i completely agree. what about the medium-term perspective, it is human potential and the development of industrial potential to produce the systems we need on our own. thank you again for this interesting conversation about education. and let me remind you that the guests of the espresso studio were oleksandra los is the ex-head of the state enterprise antonov, doctor of technical sciences, and now the captain of the armed forces, who takes care of the promising directions of the development of weapons of the ukrainian army, as well as vyacheslav kiss military analyst and now a serviceman of the special operations forces of the armed forces of ukraine and then the espresso broadcast continues olga laziness with the program of the chronicle of the information war stay on our channel

congratulations today on the russian federation they will show kneeling all day long but the propagandists still openly tell who this show is intended for and how strange it is that it is designed not only to show the show. we have grown territories there, we have grabbed something from someone there, how much in order to conduct negotiations, as it turns out, let's see in in some perspective, we must negotiate with ukraine from the west, and there is a barrier that will present itself not only for the west, but also for some