even with the same germans and americans, i.e. in my opinion, time is still the most important thing. it is necessary to provide ukraine in order to create as dense a system as possible, of course, a dense radar field and, of course, to carry the territory of ukraine as much as possible with an anti-aircraft missile complex, that is, in fact, if possible after all , this is the desire of the ukrainian side to receive the hawk complexes, which seem to have already been decommissioned, but in fact are effective, is a completely rational approach. and this decision on the part of spain is just right is invested in this concept. and by the way, how do you evaluate the transfer of hocks from the point of view of strengthening our capabilities? if you are for the complex. if you have a general impression and understanding. i think that now any help will be effective and hockey, too, they will be

useful to us. well, we know from our experience, that is, ukraine is different from our eastern partners in eastern europe . gave up on er soviet systems and made a bet on western systems, but then it turned out that they are expensive, that you have to stand in line to have them manufactured, and so on . of defense, because the americans placed their positions there, e-e, about ijs and with cm3 missiles, and even deployed their patriots, but it was exclusively for the protection of the same ijs systems, and the same thing happened in the czech republic when they refused from soviet equipment, but they were never able to

purchase even medium-range complexes because it turned out to be expensive, they bet on destroyed aviation, the same for hungary, and so on, that is, ukraine found another way and it turned out to be more effective and in fact, he provided us with what is happening now. that is, we were able to because of the fact that modernization took place and, well, firstly, maintenance in readiness, repair, ensuring the viability, combat readiness of the old complexes , and then the projects took place and took place. of modernization, the same e125 complex that was modernized in the course of export contracts, to which i lead that, in principle, ukraine just has experience working with er quite old complexes, i will say so er and er the question will be here if we talk about hawk to what extent will they really be able to be integrated into a

modern automated system, will it be necessary to make uh well, here, by the way, the same question is asked about our complexes for the buka master, will they be able to be integrated, i think no, it will be necessary to make some transitional elements, that is, roughly speaking, to to provide er integration of er old electronics into a modern automated system, well, in fact, it is a computer system there, roughly speaking. according to the tcp/ip protocol, the complex should simply join the computer system and work as er as a computer that is, it looks like this now and after and it is because of this that it is very easy to include, very easy to manage here, the question is now to develop transitions , etc. let’s say isoft and maybe some kind of transition, such things, devices for transition, etc., adapters, etc.,

roughly speaking, between the old system and automated control system. i think that it will be the same with the hock as with the ukrainian systems on the kind of book. well, i am the 2nd most automated army, it is actually the army before the air defense , because the process of automation there has advanced much deeper than in other types and types of troops and in fact, even before this active phase of the war, we had worked out where it was possible to create such transitions between the air defense system of nato countries in order to receive information from the country about the situation in the air space of ukraine. i think that now this path will simply be continued and remembering. by the way, what you just mentioned about awak. i think it would be ideal if we integrated the potential of the vision of awaks into the capabilities of our air defense system, because it removed the problem

of lack of our revolutionary field in individual sections. i think that this may just be one of the components of such an integrated system of anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense and one note, do you remember mr. serhiy, we had projects including with the swedes regarding the creation of aircraft based on the antonov planes, the source, and then according to the plan for ukraine, there would be at least four planes that would provide constant cover and constant long-range radiation detection of targets. i think that now it is very relevant because i will repeat once again the threats we have, in fact, if we talk about covering the battlefield, it is mainly if we talk about air targets, it is still mainly drones, including kamikaze and aviation. and if we talk about anti-missile defense after all, we are dealing with long-

range missiles, such as a caliber or an air -launched e-e missile, that is, for this, we need long-range launch detection systems so that we can see and fully control the russian aviation somewhere at a depth of 2000 km and fully provide the entire indication even on the territory of the russian federation, because it would simply radically increase the effectiveness of our system from the point of view of destroying these missiles, even with such a massive launch, which was unprecedented there, up to 100 missiles per one day it was used, if you count your own or the szlachettedu there, then the number was off the scale, and by the way, i want to say that it seems to me that this is the first time in the history of modern history that the national air defense system also countered such a massive attack, but not just countered, but countered extremely effectively

. that is, more than 50% of the targets were shot down, and this is simply a unique case. of course, the russians tried to overshoot . here they managed to uh with- to fill let's say ukrainian ukrainian opportunities about retry to kill them and but in any case 50% or more in these conditions i believe that these are simply unique unique capabilities but especially based on the fact that we still only have soviet complexes left and simply ukrainian specialists are impressive with their skills, indeed, such conclusions were drawn by foreign experts, and there were a number of publications in the polish press where they analyzed this very intense attack by the russian federation and even were forced to admit that even this polish air defense system, which combines

both soviet soviet models and modern polish ones, would hardly have coped with such a large number of other nato countries that are actually integrated, but combat experience. still have significance in such e-e counter-missile actions. by the way, according to the results of rammstein, there was another interesting event that actually 15 nato countries announced the creation of such a new initiative called the heavenly shield where 15 countries entered this association in order to strengthen its anti-missile capabilities there in the fight against cruise missiles with unmanned systems. how should we perceive this initiative because it somehow stood out from the general trend, that is, will it interfere with us? do we have to somehow integrate into these initiatives or at all to be at a higher level to contact directly with the

americans and the leadership of nato so as not to descend to the level of individual initiatives, that is how to treat this initiative, this initiative is actually more still applies to our european partners , that is, again, returning to the availability and readiness of the air defense system of our european partners to repel such threats that ukraine faced, we must frankly say that europe is not ready for this if we look at how much it has invested germany is also in the purchase of new systems, so we will be impressed, in fact, nothing has been invested, and it is not for nothing that the iriste slm system, which will now be presented to ukraine, is not in service with the bundeswehr, that is, although this system well, for many years, let's put it this way, and it is presented, of course, by the german ministry of defense on international markets, but due to the fact that there was no desire, there was no understanding of politicians,

first of all european, because, in addition to hoping for the united states, it is necessary to invest in e- first of all, a system against the anti-missile defense police that would protect the european continent eh, we can talk about the european union, but i understand that this is still a separate initiative that will be based on eh, first of all and the industrial capabilities of europe when we say this and the german capabilities and the french italian eh and eh and eh will still eh be based on national funds without the involvement of any european programs although not exclusively that the european union also then as an organization to this institution will join so that it is possible to somehow coordinate there are still european jeans that i am sure there were such projects regarding the creation of i remember there were uh projects in the field of anti-missile defense and air defense

but after stopped lobbying for this issue in europe. we remember that it ended somewhere around 12-13 years ago, and then when the russian-ukrainian war began, they completely forgot about this initiative, and in europe they actually did not address the issue of air defense attention and i remember that you and i, mr. serhiy, constantly said that in ukraine , first of all, we need air defense, because in a classic air offensive operation, which, of course, russia has been preparing for many years, missile strikes, air strikes will come first the first that is, it will actually be the first such er the commercial stage of the war, and secondly, it will be one of the most important, because if russia managed to destroy our command posts, our critical infrastructure,

including air defense systems, which, for example, remained our aviation his character and others, fortunately, they did not manage to do it, primarily because of the fact that our anti-aircraft, our anti-aircraft defense was preparing, our aviation was preparing and our military leadership was preparing for such a scenario, but unfortunately for the eyes years, for example, from the 14th year, neither the europeans nor the americans realized the serious situations, because it was possible in 8 years, in principle, to create and , first of all, to help ukraine to strengthen its anti-missile anti-aircraft defense, and on the other hand, to create what europe is now trying to do heaven's shield, who prevented europe from doing this before, it was politicians who said that we buy gas from russia anyway, everything is fine with us, why should we protect ourselves from them, there is no threat from russia it's just that putin wants to punish

the ukrainians, now it turns out that the ukrainians were right when they were constantly talking about the system about and ippo and now i think the institute is useful here, we don’t need to be afraid there. what will it somehow hinder us, on the contrary , now if additional investments will be made in those enterprises of the defense industry of germany, france, italy, which primarily have the ability to create systems they will simply be able to expand their production and more actively satisfy ukrainian needs, so i think this process is exclusively positive, including for ukraine, the explanations are absolutely interesting logical, and i think that in fact what is starting is a bit like that, the old concept of nato is cracking, that air defense will be provided only at the expense of the main aviation, now we see that this approach is no longer working, precisely the creation of anti-missile capabilities within the framework

of separate of the countries of europe just shows what is suitable and changes and absolutely er-er-er by the way, why er-er in the list of systems for some reason these american avengers are missing, which are actually mobile systems of close range and which would also help us in fighting those shaheds with the same cruise missiles, why are these types of weapons so far ignored by ukraine and the pentagon? well, in fact, i saw that the avengers sometimes appear on the surface of the discussion, so i think that they are still being discussed here, the question is already exclusively to the negotiation process and consultation between the ministry of defense of ukraine and the united states. i think that they are paying attention to this complex, which would really be very useful to us, which have their own means of detection, a whole indication, they are much more effective than, for example, the same manpads, which is still er well, it

depends more on where er a specific serviceman or his unit heard or saw it, that is, here all this is already approaching such a question er, the effectiveness of the organization of identifying targets by the unit itself when it is a complex that has its own target detection system , all this is a slightly different level and technical. and of course, in combat conditions, this would lead to completely different results of destruction, including cruise missiles. how did a ukrainian serviceman shoot down a manpads and cruise missile? i think that uh, then cruise missiles would be shot down, including by vengers, much more effectively in general, in principle, again, we return to the fact that uh, we are probably talking about the fact that uh, our partners or sometimes do not understand the situation, that is, they again they still want to solve their problems

, for example, the supply of irriste slm is a cool complex, but it is produced, it is produced from wheels, it is supplied, it requires money, it takes time, and so on, although germany is basically squeezing everything it can out of itself in it seems to me that the united states could still do more at the moment to strengthen anti-missile anti-aircraft defense because i don't understand the situation with petri . already use it in modern conditions. it is one thing if large funds are needed for this, another matter. but again, if we already have a language system, then roughly speaking, we can lease it in this old system, then we will give it to us, we don’t need it after the war when we we will defeat russia, we will not need a lot of them and we will give back the old complexes. they are still standing

on the storage bases and, roughly speaking, they are chasing me. well, i really think that just the patriots are on the storage bases, by the way, if i am not mistaken, the situation is in saudi arabia, where actually the us politicians are starting to say that in view of the policy of this country regarding the price of oil, let 's return part of the complexes to petriv, then what are located in saudi arabia, and then the question arises: why is it possible for us to claim these complexes in addition to those stored in storage facilities in the united states itself? that is, we think that the lend-lease program can be used by our political leadership by making a request to both hungarians and patriots and political information is to be constantly supported if, of course , there are no such americans for fear of crossing some other red line that they themselves tentatively

drew, well, this red line, by the way painted. i understand this about aviation. that is , we are constantly making accents , sometimes some topics fall out of the information space. after february 24, in fact, the issue of transferring modern fighter jets to ukraine, which have completely different, let 's be honest, opportunities were actively discussed. in countering the russian aggressors, new opportunities would open up for ukrainian pilots, now this topic has fallen out of the information space again, i do not understand why. because if we are talking about anti-aircraft anti-missile defense, then aviation and in in any case, it should be on the table as a negotiating topic, because if we didn't talk, no matter how we draw red lines, but i

'm sorry, ukrainian aviation is old. cars that are 30-40 years old. well, this is already an apparatus that must be monitored very carefully, and with such intensive use , there may soon be a moment when ukrainian pilots will simply be faced with a situation when there will simply be no aircraft technically ready and, of course, they can be used until the end, but maybe we should take some steps now so that, at least in six months, we will have the first airplanes, so that they do not arise later, a situation will arise that we will throw up our hands, they said, if there two years ago, or six months ago, they started the process of transferring aircraft for the training of technical personnel and pilots, then we would now have the opportunity. and now it is very difficult, it is long, and therefore let's somehow get out of this situation in a different way. i think that everything is the same with ukrainian aviation will be changed to western models, so i think that it

should be started already practically, this process cannot wait any longer, because it can simply turn into a big problem for the ukrainian armed forces and the ukrainian air force . there are buks, there are three hundred combos, they are effectively used by our military, but they are more than 30 years old, which aviation, and the main challenge is to exhaust the number of missiles, we are actually actively fighting the enemy and we shoot rockets and for letters for three hundreds , realizing that it is simply impossible to find a replacement for these missiles already on the market in european countries, and then the reason for the lack of missiles is actually even more than the age of these complexes with which we are fighting today. there is talk about the delivery of complexes and everyone forgets that we cannot wait forever, that is, really,

ukrainian specialists of the super class, our defense industry has done a miracle, and in fact, these old complexes that are already in the world very little, in fact, they are used effectively and ineffectively. but really, the resource of rockets, that is, rockets, when we use them en masse, but when every day, for example, 100 targets, then all the targets should be shot down by rockets . and what is a hundred rockets, this is very a lot is very expensive, and if we are talking about supply, for example , there is one complex per month that our partners are currently offering us, well, this is definitely not enough, now we should be talking about dozens of complexes, and we should be talking about deliveries by divisions, and then we will be able it is possible to talk about some kind of replacement in six months, because if russia continues, of course, i agree

with those estimates that russia must run out of missiles , must run out of high-precision missiles, but we know that they have a lot of old missiles, they have modified the s300 missiles and can fire at civilians in our cities, so we have to understand that there may be several thousand more such missiles in russia, and therefore we must have the potential to constantly be able to protect our skies and not really depend on stockpile of s30 missiles or bays, because sooner or later they will run out with such intensive use by the russians of their old, inaccurate but very deadly missiles, and you mentioned european countries and the united states. and there are actually countries outside nato that also have their own military potential in the production there, according to the missile systems of israel and south korea in particular, your assessment is it possible to somehow

create directions of interaction with these countries in order to strengthen our anti-missile or anti-aircraft capabilities at their expense. israel, of course, immediately falls out here, the political aspect, they obviously have their own understanding of the russian-ukrainian war, they have their own sentiments , obviously their connections, opportunities with the kremlin, and so on. well, in any case, only after iran began to actively intervene did the war begin they began to more actively open up their opportunities, but for now, unfortunately, from the topic that we now need in israel , there are other anti-missile systems that will suit us, which were precisely developed to counter medium and long-range ballistic missiles and winged and therefore precisely they can be delivered. but again, there is a political aspect here, eh, they were

developed by the united states, by the way, all all the systems of portrait air defense of israel eh, of different types of sex, we for their money with their technologies, so here it can be eh is the positive influence of the biden administration if they can convince israel that it is time to help ukraine. as for south korea , again, there is a great influence of the united states here, because south korea is the closest ally of the united states in asia, and that's why i think that south korea can be active, by the way, active cooperation, by the way, now poland has greatly intensified its work with the defense and industrial complex of south korea, and there are only programs for the defense of equipment and in other directions. i think that it is possible to work here as well. and here the only thing is that

, again, in all these cases, the united states plays a central role. and here it is a little unclear to me. on the one hand, there is full support, on the other hand, precisely in the systems of skidding is not completely clear to me personally , that is, there is no such impulse that could simply start the process, for example, estimates of how many old complexes of complexes can be transferred to ukraine - petriv. for example, what can be done with israel, what can be done with this south korea, where the united states has a technological and financial contribution to this system and has, well, the ability to actually influence the policy of the same government of south korea regarding aid to ukraine or participation in the lens lend-lease opens up an opportunity, for example, to finance south korean plants and

control bureaus. and simply, the companies involved in these projects finance them directly within the chain so that they manufacture these e-e in a complex, i.e. different, does not mean that simply participating in this defense industry of the united states is here israel and south can participate in principle, but this s- for some reason, this process has not yet been launched, in any case, i have not heard or seen in open sources that lend-lease, especially from the point of view of attracting our foreign partners such as south things of israel, it was launched practically already, but thank you for this extremely interesting conversation, and i would like to remind our viewers that on the air of espresso channels, mykhailo himself, the head of the ancient geocache organization of the sirisoch networks, this is how we perceive the development of the air defense system in view of the results of rammstein 6, and we will hope that these

changes will happen very quickly in order to really strengthen the potential of our anti-aircraft and anti- missile defense on this, stay tuned to the espresso channel, we were born a great hours from the fires of war, from the flames of the fires, nursed the pain after the defeat of ukraine, fed us anger and anger at the enemies, and we go in the battle of life, firm and strong, unbreakable like granite, because crying has not given freedom to anyone . no, pay, pay, it is joy for us in the fight, it is sweeter for us in the battle to die, how to live in the corners like mute slaves, enough for us ruins and disagreements, brother, do not dare to go into pain - you are the blue and yellow flag of freedom, we will connect the whole great nation, the great

truth for all, our only proud call to the people carry our homeland, be faithful to us until death, ukraine above all leads us to the battle of the fallen fighters. glory for us, the law is the highest order. the ukrainian cathedral state is free and strong from the syan to the caucasus. dear brothers and sisters. only because of the conditions under which we celebrate it, but also because of the exceptional need of our people for god's help to protect or protect from the fierce enemy what god has given us, our native land, our native home, our family, symbolically what is on the cover we also celebrate the day of the defenders of ukraine, you glorious sons and daughters who, with their

sacrificial service, also seem to envelop us all , protecting us from the enemy, standing up for the protection of our neighbors, risking our own lives, this is first of all a manifestation of the mighty strength of the spirit, this is the strength of the soldiers of the defenders of ukraine, which inspires our people to do together everything is possible for a quick righteous victory, seeing examples of tokenism, courage, self-sacrifice and courage of the defenders of ukraine, one cannot help but notice a striking similarity with the feat of the prophet david thanks to believed in god, he fearlessly stood up in defense of the truth and defeated the great proud galiaph, convinced that just as the great goliath fell then, so now with god's help we will see the fall of the kremlin empire of evil and its disgusting armed horde. dear our defenders and defenders, this is a festive day, i sincerely thank you for the approach of our victory and i wish for mental and physical strength, may faith be a firm support in the battle and the protection of the most holy

mother of god protects from all evil, they call on all defenders of ukraine, on all our people, the lord god's blessings, the great one, save ukraine for us. congratulations, the week was so full of heart-breaking twists and turns, so let's take it one at a time, now we'll tell, well, first of all, the russians are disappointed