in bosnia today, the world community does not separate the physical body of a person's life, individual from cultural heritage, from a broad historical context - it is one whole that makes up the value of our life, salvation is simply life, it is not it, it is not how much a person can fall into depression, a person can, well, not see his of the future and it will not be a full-fledged life if the father is destroyed, the wide environment, the context, those ties with the native land, with the native culture, with those customs, rituals , in the end, with the opportunity to speak the native language, therefore therefore, this problem is very global, and in fact the international infrastructure in this area is very extensive and powerful, and today ukraine is finally coming to realize this, and in particular, many ukrainians learn about the existence of the gas convention of the year 54, this is a convention that, in particular , provides for criminal liability for

committing crimes against of culture during the introduction of ukraine's military actions! santas of this agreement, in addition, later in the 54th year of the 99th, there was a second protocol that went a little further and understood what was needed personal responsibility for committing crimes against culture ukraine signed the second protocol russia - no, and here too there is a certain problem that on the legislative level on the legal plane we can eventually bring the guilty to justice and this also strengthens the chances for the chances of culture if for such stability under times of crisis during conflicts, because it is very difficult to rebuild cultural objects, especially not, how can you protect sophia of kyiv, for example, today,

well, a unesco object is essentially impossible to protect from russian missiles, but there are certain measures that will help us, let's say, take the necessary measures to save it from certain circumstances, so there are a lot of things, strategies, yes, for example, it can be missile defense, let's say it can be detailed documentation, laser laser scanning, photogrammetry, very detailed documentation that will make it possible to carry out this object almost side by side, a good example is warsaw, for example, warsaw was rebuilt there, dresden, for example, there are cities, er, in japan, there are cities that simply disappear from for one reason or another from the map from the world map, but they are then rebuilt and this is a very powerful factor, this is also one of the means of protecting cultural heritage, and in those situations when it is impossible

to protect it physically, i heard i listened back in july, somewhere around the summer of the minister culture of information policy oleksandr tkachenko and he said even then that more than 500 objects of cultural heritage were damaged or completely destroyed or damaged. er, is there any understanding? yes, er, where to get funds for the restoration of damages, for example, i see that the natural history museum and the khanenki museum, and when i see the dome of the former central council, we will be teachers, and i am horrified to think what will happen if on these when on these e-e it will break the glass it will rain so it must be urgently restored or are there

funds now for it to be urgently and promptly repaired e first of all this list is not exhaustive more than more than 500 objects or 10 october 10 was added only from you listed this one out of dozens of kyiv the list is not exhaustive, and also for the reason that the situation in those territories that are currently not under the control of ukraine is not completely clear , we do not know the level of damage. well, this speech is not only about immovable objects about buildings , ideas, about uh, the same museum collections, about archival collections, about library collections, about funds of course, there are no funds, and the ukrainian authorities openly talk about this, because, after all, the priority today is uh, the armed forces of ukraine, almost all funds

go anyway on e-e on on armed resistance and for humanitarian aid, but many international institutions are already ready to help ukraine today, probably ukraine is not fully ready to answer the question and what can we do tomorrow for you, since the answer to this question requires carrying out certain work, let's say there are such procedures as assessing losses and risks that is, this is exactly what our heritage rescue headquarters is doing, what several other ukrainian international initiatives are doing, so we visit objects, we record, we document, first of all, this the most important thing is that we document that situation sometimes together with the prosecutor's office from the sbu so that sooner or later these documentary evidences will be presented in international tribunals. and these are also court cases and verdicts, this is also one of the articles for further reconstruction , and you asked where exactly this reparation

compensation came from . - the most objective, the most practical and the most unfair source of restoration of the cultural heritage, and in general, the reconstruction of the whole of ukraine. therefore, there is a lot of unesco now. i know that today the ministry of culture actively communicates with unesco, which deals with these questions, the prince claus fund, the alif fund, that is, those international donors specialize in conflict, natural cataclysms, the restoration of cultural heritage, they are very active in ukraine, and that is why they work on an individual level, that is, most of the ukrainian cultural institutions that suffered damage received help directly or from the headquarters rescue or from other such aid initiatives of the ukrainians to this day of course, but here is a very important moment, we cannot rebuild today, the war has not ended on rebuilding is needed, first of all, time is needed, knowledge is needed, proposals are correct, because it is possible

to rebuild in such a way as to damage the monument itself, a good example is the church of the mother of god in the village of mzyazka in zhytomyr oblast, the local community obviously hoped that this the church will be dismantled because it is difficult to restore it. well, it is possible to quickly build a new, beautiful, good church. that is, this relationship is practical and part of the local community, from the point of view of restorers, needs huge funds for its restoration and restoration, and that is why here it is impossible to hurry, we can only talk about stabilization measures or against emergencies, today it is very actively engaged in this and the national restoration center, the institute helps a lot, in particular in this. that is, you mentioned the dome uh, and therefore here we are talking about the covering there, the closure of the provision of snow, rain and these against emergency measures

are actively ongoing today, but you mentioned warsaw, warsaw was rebuilt. as far as i understand, the city center is made of the same stones that were destroyed, and here i am when i look let's say about the ruins in the village of pandonnynovka. i understand that it can be. it was an estate of the 18th century . if i'm not mistaken, it can be. these very stones can either be robbed or destroyed or simply not wait and live to there was an end to survive this winter, yes, that is, there is an obvious destruction of churches, yes, let's say if these are wooden churches or very old buildings that may not wait for restoration after already after the war, is something being done to

preserve it? these ruins well, that's what i asked for i was just saying that, for example, the headquarters deals with documentation. and this is called an assessment of damaged losses and risks based on this documentation, and by the way, it is not only a paper form. and this, together with icrom, is the international center for restoration research, we created a phone application where we involve local activists local representatives of culture to quickly and assess these losses and on the basis of these completed forms it is possible to develop such a quick response plan and determine the funds that are needed today because the language emergency works are underway. they also need a certain amount of time. these works need to be carried out properly and competently, and this requires time. for example, we are doing our best within the

limits of the resources we have. today, we are really cooperating with the ministry of culture and we hope that the nearest time, international donors receive these documents and react instantly, they cannot allocate funds, because they just saw the destroyed object and immediately transferred the funds there, because here the questions are reputational against emergency works, they must pass a state examination if it is a national monument, that is, there are a lot of bureaucratic obstacles and sometimes the local government is the monument's security, it would not be in a hurry to do everything quickly, because sooner or later they will be inspected there and everything else. this too the paradox of our war when some institutions are trying to save society's initiatives and other fiscal fiscal bodies are trying to catch volunteers or some initiatives that something is not done according to the letter or paper or according to the rules and

this is also a very difficult process, i spoke with many guards of the monument, and they have very serious reservations about this, that is, going through these bureaucratic procedures, that is, let's say a museum is damaged, the windows must be replaced, the damaged doors repaired, and the roof repaired or covered in order to do this simple things are simple because it is against emergency stabilization only funds are needed you need to pass an examination you need to get a permit there from the management body in the field of cultural heritage it is also a long process and there is a certain paradox, and it is obvious that it is the initiative of the management of this or that cultural institution or that local government , it is decisive to what extent people are ready to take responsibility and, well, competently, of course , balanced and with the involvement of specialists to take very quick and useful steps, but i saw this in particular in the

city okhtyrka in trostyanka, where the local government is, well, in fact, it is ready to do everything possible to quickly and qualitatively do emergency work so that the damaged objects survive this winter and wait rebuilding, you were also there, you said that you were in kharkiv, in kharkiv, or in kharkiv oblast, so tell me what kind of destruction there is, and what you saw there, yes. last week, we were, our expedition was in kharkiv oblast. museums that have suffered damage or if their buildings are not damaged, then the condition of the collection is also in a certain emergency situation, in an emergency situation, because there is no heating, there is no light, sometimes the heating system is damaged, e.e. humidity in the premises, well, that’s it needs certain certain actions, this was the big

expedition of the e-e to the e-e in izyum where local restorers and the national restoration center museum workers from the kharkiv historical museum where by the way on the e-e we visited this famous object where the polovtsian women, this is also a very famous object, a lot was written about it in social networks, what is one of these polovtsian women, what are these sculptures, er, which can be more than 1000 years old. it was almost completely destroyed. and just what you said, we collected all the pieces from which the restorers they promised something needs to be done, and the more the other sculptures have been studied, a professional decision will be made quickly . i hope that in terms of further actions, what should be done to preserve certain sculptures so that this ensemble is still preserved, because it is a very significant

monument for our cultural history? well, of course that we visited in the neighboring nearby villages some cult objects, i was very impressed by one of the churches where the rashist hospital was located, it is so apocalyptic and this realistic picture, the church is very beautiful such and such well, how about me such baroque style, with a pierced roof, a huge hole, a lot of water inside the icons, the iconostasis , everything around, not evacuated, a lot of medical equipment, that is, in fact, they ran away from there to clean up very quickly, they left a lot, and we documented the elements of their life there, these are all operating rooms tables, medicines of the 80s, well, this also allows

, that is, we are not only talking about the cultural heritage object when documenting it, but also about the factors and reasons due to which they suffered certain expenses, losses and the relationship to the cultural heritage itself and this is not the first case in the village of lukashivka, russian buyers have also arranged numbers of military food around them, they have arranged mortar batteries, and well , their attitude to er-e to objects, it is not only about culture, heritage, about to religious to to spiritual values ​​is simply shocking and we have there are many such factual confirmations of savagery and barbarism to russian soldiers regarding savagery and barbarism - this was predicted by the russians. i have another question regarding the fact that the valuables of the cultural collection of the museums were not evacuated in time.

i know that museum collections from kyiv, for example , were evacuated only at the beginning of march. that is, it did not happen, although it was clear to everyone, it was supposed to be, or should have been. it is clear to the authorities, museum collections were not evacuated from outside kyiv, museums were taken out only at the beginning of march. part of the museum collections, for example in mariupol and melitopol, was stolen and transported to russia by the russian administration. do you think that the ukrainian authorities, in particular the ministry of culture, are responsible for the fact that the museum collections were not in time for the evolution? well of course, of course, it is the government, the government in that complex vertical is responsible for cultural values, and if we are talking about a museum, we have the museum fund of ukraine, and of course this is also a state property, and

of course the government is responsible for its preservation in the situation of evacuation well, here you touched on a lot of such important problems, sometimes controversial issues. well, i would bet that i would not be so categorical about the evacuation of the kyiv collections there. at the beginning of march, because i personally know that at least several collections were evacuated in the first day of the attack, that is, on february 24, not before the war, because it’s just great, it was great, it was great, they captured kyiv and managed to get these collections out, it should have been done before the full- scale parties, we understand it quite correctly, well, miraculously on the one hand, with a miracle, on the other hand, questions were repeatedly raised , discussed that ukraine should be ready to protect, in particular, to evacuate at least left bank ukraine,

but american colleagues who work in in the field of cultural heritage protection, which monitors the situation and monitored such situations with the help of systems, which, in particular, are more than 30,000 objects of immovable cultural heritage . in fact, we prepared and prepared, well, i mean at the professional level, at such a horizontal level, in the 14th year. and we talked about it, we united some volunteer groups . of the year on the need to create a national system of rapid response to an emergency situation during the war. we used foreign recommendations, manuals, collections with the help of funds from international donors, in particular, the

maidan museum then published such a set, which is very relevant today. and by the way, here is another interesting question: sold a lot of e-e trainings at the level of the maidan museum. the ministry of culture organized a lot of such so-called advanced training courses among the heads of museum institutions. i took part in them and we these materials were also distributed to them and sent to individual museums, and i saw that it is not only about the government. the government is, of course, responsible and guilty , but also the language of responsibility. it will be necessary and there are specific facts , in particular from donetsk, when the heads of the donetsk museums, having passed certain training, having spoken with the representatives of the ministry of culture who visited them when it was still possible before the occupation , they were very skeptical about the e-e before the evacuation

collection, and there were many reasons and refusals, it is impossible to do it, there is no money, there are no human resources, we have only women in the team, and therefore everyone else. it is difficult and really everyone is to blame, but of course in i know that many very museum teams were ready to evacuate but they were waiting of course the approval of the team from above and the question in general is of course minkul it is er these civilians are the headquarters of civil defense, this is the place, this is the ministry of defense - it is obvious, the state emergency service, that is, there are certain procedures here, the museum and even the ministry of culture certainly cannot simply give the command to evacuate, there are a lot of risk factors

during evacuation, you can lose them in the collection here, it must be very deep threat analysis really and a lot of museums did the right thing they collected the collections they secured them in relatively safe places within their museums there and waited for the team packed the priority part the collections were waiting for the team and i know that in many situations there was no team because well, the history of kyiv is very telling and with the kyiv authorities , in particular in the field of culture, it is telling today there is a lot of a whole channel started on this basis well, but we understand that this is also this is the problem of our attitude of the authorities to the culture itself. she always remained in the study. she always remained somewhere there and this is a kind of old-cast

ironic approach when uh-uh during emergency situations. we save liza uh-uh from our mes museum secondly, we save museum employees, thirdly, we save museum cats, and only in fourthly, the museum collection. unfortunately, he just worked on february 24th, in our cultural sphere, it is clear that something is the same, and i think i am highlighting your er your opinion er you are now in the gas, uh, on a training session, yes, to save cultural heritage . what is going on in ukraine now? they talk to you about the concreteness of the protection of

cultural heritage in ukraine, it is legal, it is so intense, it lasts for five days, and it is precisely on it that it is discussed a lot in such a narrow but authoritative circle of people who are involved in the preservation of cultural heritage, in particular, if we are talking about strengthening this institution the well-known satellite laboratory for the preservation of cultural heritage, which is located on the basis of the natural history museum in the state of virginia, and the laboratory that provides the ukrainian government with very important information on the state of e-e objects of 30,000 objects of cultural heritage that verifies the damage, as you and i spoke at the beginning , you said that you did not believe until the end that there could be a deliberate destruction of ukrainian museums , libraries or archives, because this laboratory confirmed it cases of intentional destruction, in particular

, the ivankiv museum and the skovoroda museum in the frying pan, they have an evidence base that this is a deliberate attack, and all the documents will be part of the evidence base that will be presented at the future international tribunal, in particular against crimes for crimes committed in the field of culture, and therefore the following mechanisms are usually worked out here under the influence of e-e international organizations that help ukraine, first of all, to monitor the situation , to react immediately and do everything possible to protect cultural heritage, to prepare for the reconstruction and development of the modernization of culture in in the next e-e, of course, there are very intensive, intensive , such reviews of international cases from and experience from

other countries that have already experienced natural disasters, because they have experienced wars, and in particular, haiti, syria afghanistan and cancer, and therefore the experience of other countries where we are very important, and on the other hand, we are already becoming, for sure, not the most powerful case, as they say today, for other countries . in the military sphere in the infrastructural sphere e-e instant reviving from adjusting our heat supply networks and how effectively ukrainian culture and heritage are protected today thanks to the unification at the horizontal level and therefore that is why it is very important and probably not by chance, because it is here that the

future international courts will obviously take place, and obviously the organizers of this training chose this place. there is a peace palace here, somewhere in particular there is a court of human rights, and gaga generally has such a high the reputation of a place where justice is done, and the factor of justice is very important for us today, ah, my last question will be, we have literally four minutes left, and my last question will be, uh, this is when you said that there is already evidence that er, it was not accidental that they hit the skovoroda museum or the library a-a hmmm, a very strange hit on the library in er, chernihiv, i was it’s just er, it breaks my heart the look of this library er and i thought that we have been in independence for 30 years normal people absolutely

treated pushkin street on tolstoy square like that in the center of the city. we looked at it, well, as some simple historical thing, and not a marker of occupation. that it appeared after the speech of president zelensky, who said it doesn't matter what the name of the street is. the main thing is that this street was well paved and now we see that the russians, when they enter, they first shoot the monuments of shevchenko, they knock down signs, burn ukrainian books, and send rockets to the skovoroda museum out of envy. -e because they have what skovoroda na their philosopher and ours and that they did not have the baroque era they missed eh do you think

that this is the situation that will now cure ukrainian society from the principle to this topos eh what a difference but i think i think society already then well, a very powerful answer, is there a difference or no difference? and now this answer is even more eloquent . of course, now there are active processes not only towards communism. russian symbols that today work like all landmines, petals that we sow from airplanes in our peaceful villages and cities, on which hundreds of citizens are blown up, this is about undermining our identity, our historical memory therefore, of course, we are mobilizing, and by the way, it is also very important. well, let the russians be the difference. american researchers have proven today that certain groups are active in ukraine, and especially in the occupied territories

, so-called nurses who track and , first of all, rob our cultural values, who monitor the importance of certain or historical and cultural objects and lead to their destruction. therefore, it is very important, especially since the director of the armitage relatively recently said that their activities as one of the most prestigious and influential museums russia and probably also in some countries of the world that still look russia in the eye that their lofty projects. completely different than it was before the large-scale invasion on february 22, igor, i sincerely thank you for the

important conversation, let me remind you that today the guest , whose names were igor poshivali, the director of the national museum of the revolution of dignity and coordinator of the heritage rescue headquarters thank you igor as always thank you to the armed forces of ukraine for the opportunity and in general for the fact that this conversation became possible glory to ukraine we will win until we meet in the next series i congratulate you, dear viewers, for your attention, all the most important and known at the moment, i will start with