or irista slm or, of course, it is also necessary at the tactical level, that is, in fact, the troops that will provide cover, in fact, already in the ranks of the ukrainian troops, units on the front line, and provide some kind of cover from practical threats to that. of course, wishes let's do everything as it should be, as it is, as the classical approach requires , i.e. if we talk about the threats that exist in our country from russia and when we talk about strikes with sea- launched air-launched missiles and ground-launched missiles are, after all, far from effective, and to counter such missiles, we need radars and long- range complexes, respectively. that is, it was not for nothing that i said about, for example, french radars

. would not be bad for ukraine. if we take another plane from the source, then we could see all the activity of the russians a couple of thousand kilometers away. and for example , the air launch of strategic bombers would be detected even on the territory russia, and then immediately if we also had long-range integrated systems like e-e patriot, then we could counter these threats even on the territory of russia, and we know that during the anti-missile functioning of anti- missile defense systems, the issue of debris fall is also important because that they also harm the peaceful population, and therefore this issue is usually taken into account when calculating where to shoot down , how to shoot down, and so on, so why don't we shoot down these missiles also on the territory of the russian federation for example, our partners probably

only have old complexes eh, and they are more related to eh military air defense, that is , directly covering units, and that is why such eh is happening. this is such a difference from our wishes. is this not even a wish and inquiries about how we see this system and the answers of our partners on the other hand, if, in addition to the real styners, they began to supply us with even old complexes, but which have additional detection systems and a whole indication, well, the same radars that is, even the fight against iranian kamikaze drones would acquire a different, slightly different quality , because after all, if we are talking about countering such targets as, er, kamikaze drones, then it is important to detect them in a timely manner and then destroy them, or er, the same shaheds it is

very difficult to detect their launch, their trajectory lies or runs low above the surface and therefore it is very difficult to detect them, that is, with the systems we have, it is difficult to detect them if we had tactical complexes that have their own radars which we even er at a range of five kilometers, you can detect such a target, this will greatly increase the quality of the fight against these drones. at the same time, when we talk about these or other interket complexes that we have at the current stage, the most important criterion for us is the manufacturability of the sample, the delivery terms is the number of missiles for this or that complex that can be delivered in ukraine from these three criteria, what is the main thing in the evaluations, in my opinion, is the delivery time, that is, if we are talking about high-tech and we will be told what about smt, for example, because there is a long queue behind

it and it is impossible to produce many of them because they are actually expensive, just like, for example, the latest modifications of petri, but it is impossible to get them now because we know there because the poles are in line and still have not received them everything they ordered, that is, i think now it would be most effective to talk about those complexes that i already have in stock, maybe that are in storage, well, it is difficult to say how many are in storage at bases a-a in the united states of those of the oldest modifications of the patriot, how much are they ready for, how much can they be restored and quickly put in order in ukraine so that they perform their tasks, especially there, how many missiles are ready for them, for example, or how many are needed , including a- and so modify and modernize so that they can then be integrated into a modern

automated control system that will form the basis of an integrated anti-missile anti-aircraft defense system. i think that our ministry of defense and the ministry of defense also know this er, the relevant specialists of the united states, and i think that this may be the way out, in fact , the military and political leadership of russia will strike with missiles now, that is, today, maybe in a week, maybe in the winter, and so on. that is, we need now these complexes, we now have to face these threats. if they tell us ok, we can supply you hm three complexes of the city in three years, well, i'm sorry, we don't know what will happen to us in three years, we don't know uh and what the situation will be, maybe by then we we will win we will also need russia in the city. and we will already be some ukrainian complex, including er, along with the french, italians, or er, germans, americans

, this is already the next next step . will supply in three years, again, do we need to invest billions of euros, but instead of 2.7 productions, if in germany, is it possible to try to produce something of our own? maybe even with the same germans, uh, and americans, that is. this is the main thing, all that is must be provided in order to create the densest possible system for ukraine, of course, a dense radar field and, of course, to maximally saturate the territory of ukraine with anti-aircraft missile systems of various types. that decision on the part of spain fits right into this concept , and by the way, how do you evaluate the transfer of the hawks

from the point of view of strengthening our capabilities, what is it for the complex. if you have a general impression and understanding. i think that now any help will be effective and hockey will also be useful to us. well, we know from our experience, that is, ukraine differs from ours even east - our partners in eastern europe are the same poles, mr. serhiy, you know that the poles of the czech republic are hungarians, they immediately abandoned the soviet systems and bet on western systems, but then it turned out that they are expensive, what is needed there stand in line to get them produced and so on. and there was a period from about 2012 to 2022. that is, 10 years when poland was in a very difficult position from the point of view of anti-aircraft missile defense, because the americans placed their positions there e-e pro-

pro ijs and with cm3 missiles and even they put their patriots, but it was exclusively for the protection of the same eggs systems, and the same thing happened in the czech republic when they abandoned the soviet equipment, but they were not able to purchase even medium-range complexes, because it turned out to be expensive. they made a bet on the destroyed aviation, the same with the hungarians and so on, that is, in ukraine, it turned out to be another way and it turned out to be more effective, and in fact, it provided us with what is happening now. that is, we were able to because of the modernization that took place and well, firstly maintenance in readiness a-a repair of ensuring er-e viability of combat readiness of old complexes and then modernization projects took place and took place, the same s125 complex that er was

modernized in the course of export contracts to which i lead that in principle er-e ukraine exactly has experience working with er quite age-old complexes, i will say so er and er the question here will be if we talk about hok to what extent they will be able to really be integrated into a modern automated system or will it be necessary to do er well here, by the way, the same question to of our complexes for the buka craftsman, will they be able to be integrated? i think no, it will be necessary to make some transition elements, that is, roughly speaking, to ensure integration, make transitions, let's say isoft, and maybe some kind of transition to such things, devices for transition, etc., adapters, roughly speaking between the old system and the automated control system, i think that with the hawk it will be the same as with the ukrainian systems on a kind of book. well,

i added to 2 according to your words that in fact the most automated is precisely the uh, the troops are actually the troops before the air defense, because the process of automation they advanced much deeper there than in other types and types of troops. and in fact, even before this second active phase and the war, we had preparations where it was possible to create such transitions between the system as you say of the air defense of the nato country in order to receive information from the country about the situation in the airspace of ukraine. i think that now this path will simply be continued and remembering. by the way, what you just mentioned about the awak is that i think it would be ideal if we integrated the potential of the vision of the awak in the capabilities of our air defense system because it removed the problem of the lack of our revolutionary field in separate areas. i think that this can be one of the components of such an integrated

air and missile defense system and er and there is one trailer, remember, serhiy , we had projects, including with the swedes, regarding the creation of aircraft based on antonov aircraft, the source, and then according to the plan for ukraine, there would be at least four aircraft that would provide a permanent e cover and constant e-e long-range radiation detection of targets i think now it is very relevant because once again we have threats in fact if we say cover of the battlefield - it is mainly if we talk about air targets it is still mainly e drones in that chile kamikaze and aviation a if we talk about anti-missile defense, after all, we are dealing with long-range missiles such as caliber or air-launched e-e missile, that is, for this we need long-range

launch detection systems so that we can see to fully control russian aviation somewhere thousands of kilometers to a depth and fully provide the whole the indication is still on the territory of the russian federation, because it would simply radically increase the effectiveness of our system from the point of view of destroying these missiles, even with such a massive launch that was unprecedented there, up to 100 rockets were used in one day, if you count all the nobles there, the number was completely off the charts. by the way, i want to say that it seems to me that this is the first time in the history of modern history, that the national air defense system and about countered such a massive uh, but it didn’t just counter the strike, it countered extremely effectively. that is, more than 50% of the targets were shot down, and this is

simply a unique case. us which reached up to 80%. here they managed to er with- to fill let's say this ukrainian ukrainian opportunities to try to kill them and but in any case 50% or more in these conditions i believe that these are simply unique unique capabilities but especially based on the fact that we still have exclusively soviet complexes remained and simply ukrainian specialists are impressive with their skills, indeed such conclusions were drawn by foreign experts, there were a number of publications in the polish press where they analyzed this very intense attack by the russian federation and even were forced to admit that even the polish air defense system, which combines both soviet soviet models and modern polish ones, would be unlikely to cope with such an influx like another nato country, which is

actually integrated, but with combat experience and the skills that are important in such counter-missile actions. by the way, according to the results of rammstein, there was another interesting event that actually 15 nato countries announced the creation of such a new initiative called the heavenly shield where 15 countries entered the this association is to strengthen its anti-missile capabilities there in the fight against cruise missiles and unmanned systems. how should we perceive this initiative because it somehow stood out from the general trend, that is, will it interfere with us ? do we need to somehow integrate into these initiatives or at all be on a higher level to contact directly with the americans and the nato leadership in order not to descend to the level of individual initiatives, that is how to treat this initiative, this initiative is actually more

still applies to our european partners , that is, again, returning to the availability and readiness of the air defense system of our european partners to repel such threats that ukraine faced, we must frankly say that europe is not ready for this if we look at how much it has invested germany, too, in the purchase of new systems, we will be surprised, in fact, nothing has been invested, and it is not for nothing that the iriste slm system, which will now be delivered to ukraine, is not in service with the bundeswehr, that is, although this system well, for many years, let's put it this way, and it is presented, of course, by the german ministry of defense on international markets, but due to the fact that there was no desire, there was no understanding of politicians, first of all european, because, in addition to hoping for the united states, it is necessary to invest

in e- first of all, it is a system against the police, not anti-missile defense, which would protect the european continent. we can talk about the european union, but i understand that this is still a separate initiative that will be based on first of all, on the european industrial capabilities, when we say this, the german capabilities and the french, italian, er, and yet they will er be based on national funds without the involvement of any european rights. although not exclusively, the european union also then as an organization will join this institute so that it is possible to somehow coordinate there are still european jeans which i am sure there were such projects regarding the creation of i remember there were uh projects in the field of portrait defense and air defense but after the obama administration stopped lobbying for this issue in europe. we remember that it ended somewhere around 12-13 years ago, and

then when the russian-ukrainian war began, this initiative was completely forgotten in europe. they actually did not pay attention to the issue of air defense, and i remember that you and i, mr. sergey, constantly said that in ukraine, first of all, we need air defense , because in a classic air offensive operation, which, of course, russia has been preparing for many years , missile strikes air strikes will come first the first, that is, it will actually be the first commercial phase of the war, and secondly, it will be one of the most important, because if russia managed to destroy our command posts, our critical infrastructure, including air defense systems, which, for example, remained our hot character then and the character of

him and others, fortunately, they did not manage to do it, primarily because of the fact that our air defenses, our air defenses were preparing, our aviation was preparing, and so was our military leadership was preparing for such a scenario, but unfortunately, during these years, for example, from the 14th year, neither the europeans nor the americans realized the serious situations, because it was possible in 8 years, in principle, to create and , first of all, to help ukraine strengthen its anti-missile anti-aircraft defense, and on the other hand, and to create what europe is trying to do now, this, this, the heavenly shield, who prevented europe from doing this, before it was prevented by politicians who said that we buy gas from russia anyway, everything is fine with us, why should we protect ourselves from them, there is no threat from there is no russia. it’s just that putin wants to punish the ukrainians. now it turned out that the ukrainians were right when they constantly talked about the system about and ippo, and

now i think that the institute is useful here, we don’t need to be afraid. that it will somehow hinder us, on the contrary , now if additional investments will be made in those enterprises of the defense industry of germany, france, italy, which primarily have the ability to create anti- aircraft defense systems, they will simply be able to expand their production and, including, more actively meet the needs of the ukrainian e-e, so here i am i think this process is extremely positive, including for ukraine, the interesting explanations are absolutely logical, and i think that in fact what is starting is a bit like that, the old nato concept that air defense will be provided only at the expense of the main air force is cracking, now we see that this approach no longer works, just the creation of anti-missile capabilities within the framework of individual european countries just shows that what is suitable is

changing . avengers, which are in fact mobile close-range systems there and which would also help us in the fight against those shaheds with the same cruise missiles, why are these types of weapons still overlooked there and by ukraine and the pentagon, in fact, i saw that the avengers appear sometimes on the surface of the discussion, therefore, i think that they are still being discussed here, the issue is already uh, uh, exclusively before the uh, pre- trial process and consultation between the ministry of defense of ukraine and the united states. i think that they are paying attention to this complex, which would really be for us very useful, because the countermeasure is exactly what i said with those complexes that have their own detection means, they are indicated, they are much more effective than, for example , the same manpads, which, after all, eh well, it depends more on where, eh, a specific

serviceman or his unit heard there i saw, that is, all this is already approaching such a question, uh, already the effectiveness of the organization of target detection by the unit itself, when there is a complex that has its own target detection system , all this is a little different level and technical. and of course, in combat conditions, this would lead to completely different results of destruction, including cruise missiles. we saw how a ukrainian serviceman shot down a manpads and a cruise missile. i think that then cruise missiles would be shot down , including by rangers, much more effectively , in general, in principle, again, we return to that, er, we are probably talking about the fact that er, our partners sometimes do not understand the situation, that is, they again want to possibly solve their

issues . it is produced from wheels, it is delivered, it requires money, it requires time, and so on, although germany is basically squeezing everything it can out of the united states, it seems to me that they could still do more for the moment to strengthen er, just anti-missile anti-aircraft defense, because i don’t understand the situation with petriv. so far, if the situation is that it is really impossible to use them in modern conditions, it’s one thing if it requires a lot of money, another thing. but again, if in we already have a land lease system, so roughly speaking, we can lease them in this old system, then we will give them away, we won’t need them after the war. when we defeat russia, we won’t need many of them, and we will give away the old complexes. they are still standing on the bases storage and to put it bluntly, they are rotting, i don’t

understand why there is a problem, why they are still not in ukraine, they do not protect ukrainian lands. well, i really think that it is precisely the patriots who are on the storage bases, by the way, the situation in saudi arabia, if i am not mistaken, where the politicians are still starting talk what is there in view of the policy of this country regarding oil prices, then let's return part of the complexes to petriv, which are located in saudi arabia, and then the question arises. why could we possibly claim these complexes in addition to what is stored in storage of the united states itself. that is, we think that the lend-lease program can be used by our political leadership by making a request to both hungarians and patriots and to constantly support this political information if, of course, the americans do not have such er, out of fear of that, there is another red line that they themselves tentatively drew. well, this red line is

also drawn, by the way. i understand this in relation to aviation. that is , we er constantly make accents , sometimes some topics fall out of the information space ah, after february 24, in fact, the issue of transferring modern fighter jets to ukraine, which have completely different capabilities, let’s be honest, in countering the russian aggressor, would open up new opportunities for ukrainian pilots, now this the topic fell out of the information space again, i don’t understand why because if we are talking about anti-aircraft missile defense, aviation should in any case be on the table as a negotiating topic because if we didn’t talk, no matter how we drew red lines, but i’m sorry, ukrainian aviation is old well, that is, we must honestly say that our planes are old, the youngest there are at least 30. although i think years and even cars that are 30-40 years old.

well, this is already an apparatus that must be monitored very carefully even with such intensive use uh, soon there may be a moment when ukrainian pilots will simply be faced with uh, a situation when uh, there will simply be no planes technically ready. at least six months later, we had the first airplanes, but then they didn't come. a situation arose that we would throw up our hands. they said that if two years ago, or six months ago, the process of transferring airplanes for the training of technical personnel and pilots had started, then we would have us now there was an opportunity. and now it is very difficult, it takes a long time, so let's somehow get out of this situation in a different way, and i think that everything will be fine

. can simply turn into a big problem for the ukrainian armed forces and the ukrainian air force, you are absolutely right, and the same is true about the interket complexes, indeed, we have buks, there are three hundred combos, they are effectively used by our military, but they are over 30 years old years of aviation, and the main challenge is about exhausting the number of missiles, we are actually actively fighting the enemy and firing missiles and for letters for three hundreds, understanding that it is simply impossible to find a replacement for these missiles already on the market in european countries, and then the challenge of the lack of missiles is actually even more than itself uh, the age of these complexes with which we are fighting today. we absolutely need to find a way out, that is, for some reason, we are talking about the supply of complexes , and everyone forgets that we can’t wait forever , that is, really, ukrainian specialists of the super class uh

our our our defense industry has done a miracle and in fact these old complexes of which there are already very few in the world in fact they are used effectively and ineffectively but really the resource of missiles , that is, missiles still when we use them en masse but when every day for example 100 targets then e- all targets should be shot down by missiles . and what are hundreds? this is a lot, it is very expensive , and if we are talking about the supply, for example, there is one complex per month that our partners are currently offering us, well, this is definitely not enough, now we have to talk about we are already talking about dozens of complexes uh, we should be talking about deliveries by divisions, and then we will be able to talk about some kind of replacement, maybe in six months, because if russia continues, i, of course, uh, well, i agree with those estimates that in russia, after all, the stock of missiles must

run out to run out of high-precision missiles , but we know that they have a lot of old missiles , uh, they modified the s300 missiles and can fire at civilians in our cities, so we have to understand that there may be several thousand more such missiles in russia, and that's why we should have the potential to constantly be able to protect your sky is not really dependent on the stock of missile s30 or bays because sooner or later they will run out with such an intensive use by the russians of their old inaccurate but very deadly missiles and you mentioned european countries about the united states and there is countries actually outside of nato that also have their own industrial and military potential in the production of hydro-missile systems there, in particular israel and south korea in a way to create directions of interaction with these

states in order to strengthen our anti-missile or anti-air capabilities at their expense, well , israel, of course, immediately falls out here, the political aspect, they obviously have their own understanding of the russian-ukrainian war, they have their own sentiments , obviously their connections it is possible with the kremlin and so on. well, in any case, only after iran began to actively intervene in the war. they began to more actively open up their opportunities, but for now, unfortunately, it is about the transfer to ukraine. anti-missile defense systems are not available because there are constant comments, even when i see the last message that again, someone takes into account the government or the experts who said that the iron dome is not suitable for ukraine . other e anti-missile systems e-e which

will suit us which were precisely developed to counter missiles of medium and yes specialty ballistic and cruise missiles and therefore precisely they can be supplied but again there is a political aspect here e-e they were developed by the united states, by the way, all uh, all all of israel's portrait air defense systems, uh, of various types, were developed by the united states for their money with their technologies, so there can be a uh, positive influence of the biden administration if they can convince israel that it's time it is time to help ukraine, as for south korea, again, there is a great influence of the united states because it is in the south