but we show, that is, before all countries, uh, all states, let's say, tried to spread their influence and uh, increase territorially. of results that there are times when you win and times when you lose and it is better to build on other princesses , they survived this imperialism, most of their countries and they are moving forward russia did not survive this imperialism and it is so so britain managed to transform from an empire to a commonwealth absolutely and everyone managed to actually russia is the last of the empire and with imperial thinking a-a such a state and this is what should be, relatively speaking , an indicator of whether i believe that the russians will suddenly change no, i do not believe because i first of all i understand that the entire population that currently exists there is ill-

educated, and they don’t know, they don’t know how to think , and they need a tough leader who leads them in. are there alternative leaders in russia who would be, let’s say, of a different kind? no, there are none. in relation to ukraine to in relation to no one because in their ukrainian language, well, it's very clear there, and it's such russians, also of the opposition type, but he said last week on twitter that we do not owe anything to anyone, especially ukrainians, and this is an absolutely clear position, that is, they all they were brought up in this in this context in this way, that's why denazification is good, but i don't think it's about identification. maybe in russia, because they have nothing to compare it to . and the same germans who went through denazification . they knew how to live before and they knew to which they want to return to a normal state, and in fact it is so. for this, first of all, in the person, as it

seems to me. maybe i am wrong in the person himself, it is necessary to generate inside so that it is this measure of good and evil, and then it can be shown to the eyes of horrors, it will say so it is it is definitely evil, but sometimes it seems that these russians who come to our territory as part of their gang formations of the russian regular army, they do not know what is called sorry for not seeing the borders, that is, they do not see where, where, where the borders are in such a state in which no human life, no respect for private property, no respect simply for the dignity of a person, it was never even considered in any of the points that can be taken into account. was to lolitarize demi and force them to live for several generations without weapons when they cannot

realize their aggressive intentions, maybe it worked, but now it comes to the task especially. by the way, the number of weapons and nuclear weapons and everything else. that is, let's say this is a task for the future. well, in fact, you and i are already sitting here and we decide that in order to do this with russia, we need to do something with it, but let's go back, after all, for us. while i was going to the program, i looked and came across the interview is from the inside of august this year, it seems on the 19th. if i am not mistaken, it was an interview with one of the ukrainian changes and the director of the sociological group rating oleksiy antipovich, in particular in this interview he said that russia has become an enemy for 100% of ukrainians that is, a person who is engaged in researching public opinion, and for the sake of comparison, i found a figure that on december 10, 21, that is, two months before the war, there were 72% of such people. and the same ptypovych in the same

interview, uh, pronounces this he says this, says everything russian, including the language has become toxic for ukrainians with this later. they don't do anything what do we have what should we label russia and russians what in the narrative in the image and lest consider them simply toxic and consider them enemies , that is, do not avoid them, but fight it, as you think so absolutely, for this, you just need to form the question that it is a threat, that is, that is all, and that is, we see there the influence on the media, the informational influence. this is a threat to us, that is, this we can see the threat to people if in the 13th year the consciousness of the residents of donetsk

in luhansk was literally breaking down under this very informational influence of the russian federation, that is, we can see that this is just a breakdown of the psyche, that is, it is nothing, if not better than this armed intervention is the militarization of the economy, politics. that is, their rhetoric is there. we say that this poses a direct threat and we show it in the humanitarian sphere in the economic sphere, that is, it is all of europe already today. for the existence of us, the state is a threat to the existence of the world, therefore, this threat requires an appropriate response to this threat, it is not enough. of course , just saying well, there is some stupid muscovite, yes. that is, this is such a primitive level. we must uh, to develop mechanisms for how we can secure ourselves and the world so that this aggression in any sphere , economy, politics, humanitarian sphere, so that it no longer becomes unacceptable and impossible , if only i heard two well, in my opinion, valuable meanings,

first you said about excuse me, stupid muskalya and what, i'm sorry, on the other hand, this is the first meaning, the second meaning is that we must protect ourselves and the world. why was the first meaning valid? it seems to me that the opposition to russian in this information influx and real influx is also we we are joking, ukrainians, trolls just got in the world, but will this be enough? can we with our sense of humor, sometimes black, interrupt this information wave, this is the first one, this is me to the stupid muscovites, or are we not going to play stupid muscovites and are we not going to see through such eh behind such a game or there according to such a-a strategy of serious mmm educated a-a professional enemies, well, you understand what you understand, and it seems to me that here we need to

divide, let's say, the zone of responsibility, humor is a ukrainian trait and it saves us and it is very often allows us to win the information battle because when you start making fun of something, it is impossible to talk about it seriously. but what you are talking about, threat assessment, it should be a professional skill for the military, for intelligence, for people who make decisions in society in the state for socially influential people. where should it be a realistic assessment of the threat because if you have a realistic assessment of the threat, you are with it . for example, civilian control over the army is important and because we see that the russians, not having such transparency and transparency of what is happening in the army, actually believed in their invincible army and broke down because

they did not really know what was inside them it is happening yes it is for us it is a plus and we and we have we just have to understand who is in charge tom some er-er this corrupt person from the russian army should be given heroes of ukraine there yes yes it is important to preserve this p-trance so that we understand what we have the army is developing as it should, because we have strategic thinking, that we have tactical skills, that we are implementing the changes that must be implemented in order for this army to become even stronger, it seems that this will be a question already in peacetime after the war of our victory it will be a matter of balance, because participating in the life of the army after such a war, you are already ordinary ukrainians, not even armymen, so they take money directly, they do not drop money, she buys a bunch of volunteers there and so on, that is, in fact, the army is what it is the continuation of the ukrainian people as a good weapon , the extension of the hand, you know how in principle, but uh, peacetime, i think it will be a problem

of balance, because uh, our society is active and will tell the state yes, the state is calm. go away, so you are doing too much, we will now do as necessary, the state will say the little people are the army. i have to keep the controls there, they will keep it, but we will do it. and now you will control. i think there will be a problem of balance, maybe and in general there is ukrainian democracy. it is probably a little anarchic, but exactly it is just spain, it seems that this balance can be found, the state really after the war will certainly prepolate in many spheres, both in the economic and in the information sphere, and because well, there simply will not be enough money there, for example, or it will be necessary to make significant investments, this is the task for the state but at the same time, i think that the ukrainians as a nation, as an economic model, they can provide really a lot of different network solutions. for example, what kind of initiative did this army of drones take,

because it is a very good example when the state initiates but includes almost everyone who is able to produce these drones for different types of drones for different types of production and everyone is included in the shape of the needle of the whole of ukraine and it is yes and it happens very quickly and it happens if there is coordination it happens very efficiently so here it really is we need to find a balance, because in our country some areas were highly regulated and highly dependent on state decisions, including those productions that are related to the war with weapons and equipment, but is it possible or what has to do with this topics er about stupid muscovites, so mockery and black humor er, it is very important for us to really understand that these are two not er mutually exclusive concepts, that is, there must be this black humor must necessarily be ridicule because the russians

created them for decades, that is, for about 15 years, it was only state russian propaganda that threw in money in order to shape its image, and now, with the help of such methods as black humor, it is not only the protection of public consciousness, that is, it is not only it psychological well, actually, this is first of all, but in addition, it is also a violation of that consciousness and those negatives that the russians managed to form already in the west and about themselves, this is absolutely absolutely brilliant and sparkling, but it’s just a question because we won’t see through it like that and here is our second the task in no way is to underestimate any enemy, i.e. you cannot underestimate russia , you cannot underestimate the belarusian army, i.e. you cannot, and by the way, it is the task of the military to prepare for the worst-case scenario, and when we every time we are waging an informational struggle we are preparing for the worst case scenario it turns out a little better so

persecutory with every operation planning we always prepare for the worst case scenario so that the enemy will put up the greatest resistance it always turns out better and this is great, that is, these two processes should go simply in parallel the second question is in addition to that what else did you say, uh, what did you say to broadcast to the world? do we have as neighbors? well, we are neighbors of that country and that, well, conventionally, of the people, we seem to know something about them and understand them. maybe even too that the world does not understand about them. should we share this knowledge, spread it in the world, in what way, of course, we should, because we see how important the coalition of countries that have formed around ukraine has become, we would not have won this war. we would have lost much more if we they didn't support us. we can criticize it for speed, it's something else, but we have the supply of weapons from all friendly countries, we have

support, we have support, and the acceptance of our e-e displaced persons, refugees, this is all very important , investments, support of the economy, and they give us money for the budget, because everything would collapse in our country. and it is very possible, and such an international coalition is important because we cannot afford to have the same army as the russians. coalitions, they will be formed under the influence of public opinion in these countries. let's see now. how difficult it is for the german government to work because, in fact , society supports us more than the government, and i am sure that if there was no public support then the government would, let's say, disconnect from this problem altogether, and germany is influential in the european union, and this entails some decisions, and this is

important. it was even formed there, although there is also such a professionally formed fifth column there, because people who carry this mentality and these values ​​went there, and now there, for example , with the mobilization of hal even more, and these people will practice the internal trip and therefore we, yes, we need to talk about it, and if it was just earlier it was more difficult because, well, we had to prove some things that we didn't feel and they didn't see, now it's a little easier from the point of view of the fact that now all these crimes are very obvious , very visible and this must be continued and we must continue to convey the realism of the threat to russia of the future, and this is also important because now, well, there is still such a thing in european politics, you know . of security, russia should be included. well, maybe not. i

talk to her less, because she is already retired, but she pops up and says what the dead person is doing. in general , she reflects, including the thoughts that are inside the policy, so you have to pay attention to that, look at ukraine , we need to understand that ukraine is an expert on the issues of russia, absolutely, this is our unique offer to the world, there are other countries, which countries border russia, norway, there is something in this, this is the whole point, because no other country has been under the influence of russia for so long first of all, secondly, language barriers, truth, cultural barriers, language barriers, we understand the nature, we understand the way of thinking of russians, and therefore we understand that all our spheres there and social life in general were deeply integrated into er into russian well that is, this is what was called soviet, and that is why we can understand what they are planning, how

they think, and that is why this is our unique proposal for the event that was formed in each department, if we look at all those brain centers, this intensity is there to everyone someone or an expert or a department that deals with the issues of eurasia, now i will say a cliché from the movie, yes, to catch a criminal, you have to think like a criminal, yes, and to defeat the russians, you have to be able to think like a russian, we know how to think, there is hercules, i am a little yes, a little no i agree with the fact that only we can do it, for example, there is, for example , finland, which is not very talkative, not very public, but it is very well prepared for an attack by russia, starting from the period when they actually annexed part of the territory of russia. were preparing and if you got there in a professional

environment, the ministry of defense, the military, everyone who is connected with security issues, they clearly understood that they have all the understanding of how the resistance will be carried out, and a special program that says that there should be 72 hours in a supply of water, for example, and these are things that they quietly brought up, let's say, and their army absolutely clearly analyzed what was happening in russia from the point of view of the militarization of the transformation of their army and was preparing for the type of war that russia could impose on them, and by the way, if you are now if you ask the european military which of the european armies they consider to be one of the most powerful, they will all tell you finland because the people rationally prepared for this situation, they were prepared so from the point of view of the voice, we also have poland and the baltics who clearly know what will happen if russia let's say it will reach their borders. and that's why there are such voices, we need to

unite with them, and there in nato they even say that we should have listened to the baltics. well, we should have listened to the lithuanians, who constantly told us that there would be a war the war there will be very achievable. therefore, we need to strengthen what we can still give, we can give the best army in the world, in fact. yes, well, we ca n't argue with the americans for sure, but there we will definitely go to the top 3. because none of the countries had such experience ah, a practical war on its own territory with such and such a number of conventional weapons, none of the modern countries had this, and therefore, firstly, we will have a large number of people who have gone through it, who know how to fight, and secondly, we have gone through a modern war despite the fact that it is so strange, modern, equal, yes, and thirdly, it is really an understanding of what works and what does not work in some situations. well, here i just have to say that uh, there are tactical issues. that is, this is a war, well, the war is ending. that is, it is

ending . defeat of russia. it is obvious. of course , in the film, the americans prepared even better, that is, here with this with this. it is clear. but the question is when we say how to understand the nature of this particular social organism that has its own state and federation, and when we we will understand then because the war is a consequence of those social processes that took place. that is, this is this policy, and in order to understand them, you need to... well, first of all, think like a russian and have and have the same base, that is, hysterical ideological and that's similar and that 's similar, that is, and for us, this is a unique example when i was 14 years old, i have known ethnic russians there who were born in russia, grew up in russia, settled there, became friends, and they and they say well, that's what he says, i may not speak ukrainian because how

learn this ukrainian here, who knows him and never spoke in kharkiv, but i will give my son to ukrainian, this one says i know what it is - he says i know how to fight with them there, that is, i know how it will be and he is not only talking about war he talks about the future. he talks about life, about life, how life should be built in ukraine, there is a change from russian, and by the way, he learned ukrainian. so everyone, everyone will only speak ukrainian, all bloggers , this is my personal experience, all bloggers are linguistic, they need to learn the language on on steam well how here er-e the composition is fighting so for heritage it is called they started writing about the ukrainian language how to learn ukrainian them how i learned ukrainian how i learned ukrainian and compared to russian i once taught there and so on all ukrainian because you said that in all sentyanka there is the study of russia, yes, and we must pay attention to this, it is also the russian influence, and because most of the syntenka did not

predict what would happen, despite the fact that they studied and researched russia for decades and did not predict the majority of politicians who they gave advice about the fact that the situation will develop in this way. but the study of ukraine - this question is now a very good course by timothy snyder at ely on the history of ukraine. he says for the first time that this is the only course in american universities on the study of the history of ukraine. there is a war going on in us, we are nothing we do not know about ukraine, about what is happening there, and this is such a precedent and we need to think about it, we need more of ours, now is such a very favorable time for the influence of our cultural to study the language because the language is becoming popular and the culture is becoming popular, we can very quickly show ukrainian culture, show ukrainian tradition and history, including why russia is the

way it is through the ukrainian prism to the whole world and this should be done. please tell me the last question on today's program and is it provocative or not the moment may come when we will be so imbued with this image of the enemy and its export to the world is absolutely rational, because it must be told to the world, will we not reach the point of brutalization ourselves or will we not repeat it in other words the fate of russia, which met the fate of the german fascist germany and matured like a dog catching its own tail and ran towards us, does this mean that we are not in danger of such a thing? according to the family of western thought of western civilization, and if the decision, for example, about the pro-process of the denazification of germany, it was decided first

of all by the western coalition, and in the second place they said, well, it is obvious that the trauma in you can't tell a traumatized generation or a specific german what it was. that was bad. that was. human nature is arranged in such a way that if i lived for 10 years. that's how it is for the 11th year. even if you tell me that something was wrong there i will defend it, yes, it turns out to be my 10 years of life, i was stupid, yes, we need to help you admit that you were not stupid for 10 years, but stupid for 25 or 30 years, and this is the business of whoever will help it . coalition, including this entire policy and the development of methods will be a joint matter. that is , it is not a matter of screwing ukraine or anyone. that is, it is not politics at all, but implementing this policy and bearing responsibility, including for those peoples who, i hope , are temporarily part of the russian

federation and we need to implement this policy, and we and education have no other way out than to bear the responsibility for this, to implement and make the whole continent better. it seems to me that there should be two aspects, and they are now consisting first of all, yes the world has changed and the security configuration is changing, yes, it will be different. and what i said before that many politicians were in this, you know, their own kind of acceptance by russia of everything in general that is happening. and why is it so important, for example, to recognize russia as a terrorist state? well, first of all, because it imposes very significant legal restrictions, for example, on trade with russia . the truth must be told, and it is currently causing a lot of european politicians there to be

cautious, because european society in the absence of war is used to, well, let's say such very soft formations. well, for example, as an example, there are literally or not offensive weapons. in ukraine, you can use it as a seal of attack during a retreat, uh, and that's why it's just a wording that was meant to soften the kinetic actions , they somehow give some correspondences to the formations, three things need to be withdrawn, many things need to be named by their names and it seems to me that it is ukraine that can make this impact when you start talking about war and war, murderers are murderers and this must be recognized and this is the first and second, i actually think that any situation has good moments, a good moment , and from this situation in ukraine, it happened that a lot of people went abroad, and first of all , children, and these children now have the opportunity. i think it

is also very progressive. they have the opportunity to see a different education system. they have the opportunity to understand that the world is big, that you can choose. what can you choose where do you live how do you live what can you choose between different some talk a lot about the fact that they understood better what is good in ukraine looking from and not having some things but you can build critical thinking in children and adults this is the only safeguard against any propaganda being any state after all is prone to propaganda and the safeguards are precisely the ethical stories that are declared and the critical thinking that allows well actually i think that this is such a push from another education in that will give an opportunity to start developing this critical thinking in both children and adults and in many people, i think that this is a guarantee that it will not be so easy for us to manipulate gentlemen, the conversation was a

little possible and chaotic because of me, of course, but i really liked it. we talked with you about the fact that the image of the enemy is actually needed in order to understand this enemy in order to fight with him successfully and in order to broadcast it to the world and future generations so that ukrainian history will never be twisted so that the world understands that an aggressor is an aggressor and murderers are murderers and so that our children never forget who we have across the border, what kind of neighbors and what can be expected from them, unfortunately, i will remind you that today's interlocutors are first and foremost alina frolova, the deputy head of the center 's board of defense strategies and serhiy kuzan, head of the ukrainian center for security and cooperation i thank you very much i hope we will talk with you again good luck from the

cossack times under the cossack cross we defend our native land we fight for the truth and will we believe in our victory glory to the defenders and protectors of ukraine unconquered cities of ukraine odesa, a picturesque city on the shores of the black sea since ancient times, the territory of modern odesa was a delicacy for the ottoman empire and the russian empire of nazi germany, and today for fascist russia, but don't rush your mother, she has a

ukrainian heart odesa unconquered, maybe guns and a tank will rake wheat with me on a rope again, i will cry, i will have sons and go to war , someone will finally kiss my tear and someone will cry will sweep away the uninvited and maybe some will lose their faith and strength in saving their lives, but not me, i will not stand up, no matter how much it hurts. for our dear and beloved land, i am glad to take on all the lights, the

rules of a warm country, a high-rise building, unite with neighbors, inspect the house, attract specialists for insulation, prepare batteries, repair and adjust windows and doors, check electrical wiring, take care of a warm room and personal heating devices, take care of those who find it more difficult to develop an action plan in an extreme situations, discuss the need for a backup generator, equip the premises for joint heating, let's beat the winter together