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the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko . good day and good health to all. today is the 244th day of the ukrainian people's heroic resistance to the russian invaders. the kremlin continues to blame ukraine . in the preparation of the so-called dirty bomb, instead of the world in the format of the big seven and the crimean platform, they are trying to say no to the russian occupiers at the insistence of russia, the topic is dirty the bomb that, according to moscow, is allegedly produced by ukraine will be dedicated to the session of the un general assembly. the united states of america, britain and france consider as an insinuation the statement that it is about the possible use of ukraine and the so-called dirty bomb. they made a special statement about this, meanwhile, russia continues to lose lives strength and equipment in ukraine as of the morning of october 25, russia has already lost 68 7,420 people in ukraine in

the last day alone, the armed forces of ukraine destroyed 480 orks with the beginning of the great war, the russians already lost in ukraine 2,611 tanks, 5,321 armored combat vehicles, 1,674 artillery systems, 377 rocket launcher systems, 190 air defense systems, 271 aircraft, 248 helicopters, 4,054 units of motor vehicles, 16 ships, boats, 350 cruise missiles, 1,372 drones, 149 units of special equipment. and began to reproduce information about the so-called dirty bomb and how the world should fight against russian nazism, which should be destroyed, we will talk about this for the next hour with my guest - he is a politician, a diplomat, the minister of foreign affairs in 2014-2019, pavlo klimkin, mr.

pavla, good day, good health to you and thank you for joining our broadcast. congratulations, mr. serhiy, congratulations , friends, i will be glad to be with you. thank you, mr. pavla, let's start with the main topic, which the propaganda media and also the leaders of the russian state are pumping out propaganda about a seemingly dirty bomb that was prepared by the ukrainian state, we know that this is a bomb that was once tested in the soviet union and obviously all the technologies remained in federation and it is obvious that if the russian federation does not plan to use such a dirty bomb somewhere in the south of ukraine, then at least it can do it , how do you look at this story with the dirty bomb, which became a logical continuation of russia's nuclear blackmail of the world once again, i congratulate everyone

, this is an incoming maneuver. and it is completely conscious, let's see what russia has achieved and i emphasize that it has achieved with the help of this maneuver. first of all, he is called by the minister of foreign affairs, or the minister of defense of western countries, then he calls the head of the russian general staff, that is, in fact, during these conversations, they do not renew the dialogue, but nevertheless they started talking and got the opportunity to raise, in addition to this issue about one bomb, other issues, the second point, eh, all these conversations distract and

refocus attention to absolutely and other eh, for example, they shift attention from our crazy khudev to our critical infrastructure, in particular, to the energy sector, and these strikes eh are aimed at leaving us eh without heat, without electricity for this winter and that's more one form is the most demonstrative of russian genocide and the third. i believe that this is a deliberate conversation to distract from the preparation of russian offensives, in particular from the north, and i think that they will now try to continue hitting critical infrastructure and then most likely in the winter, it is

difficult to say when it will be december or january, they will not try to hit the area of ​​the rivne npp in order to finally put our energy system down and force us to talk again on their terms, that is, i would not underestimate what russia is doing now, they we prepared for this absolutely consciously, we need to understand that all this fear-mongering diverts the world's attention to this, time is lost, processes are thought instead of the real intentions of the kremlin, and we need to be ready for this and work based on this. and the last one, as physics, as a person who 30 for years, he has been dealing with security issues and is dealing with security issues, i will tell you that a dirty bomb

is generally pure madness from the point of view of the effectiveness of its use, that is, to make a provocation with the help of a dirty bomb is impossible, how can it be passed off as a real nuclear explosion, in what way this will change the course of the war in no way. by the way, any tactical nuclear strikes by russia will not change the course of the war, and that's fine too. of course. but that's a completely different story, so i would underestimate this russian plan and work with our allies on what first of all, immediately reject er, and i am really looking for all this russian brilliance, now russia wants to discuss it at the security council and lose days of the week in order to distract attention from what

it is already doing and from what it wants to do in the future, well, except for this it's about the dirty bomb during the last few days, serhii shoigu, the minister of defense, or rather the minister of attack of the russian federation, we still have a few more statements in the russian federation, which, well, they are in line with this statement. on october 20, anton krasovsky announced on the air of our country that ukrainian children they should be drowned in rivers because they say they are the children of fascists or nazis and you have to deal with them quite harshly, of course, and there it says that they are very deeply outraged by this statement, but this statement went and was criticized the russian mass media elaborated this information further october 24 lavrov ukraine prepares

a dirty bomb we will complain to the un again reinforce the thesis about the dirty bomb october 25 today kadyrov must be erased the cities will fly off the ground further today october 25 the map of polovtsian head of the committee on defense we are fighting the nazis we will win, that is, during the last week, they create a picture, well, at least for the internal exact consumer, and obviously counting on some part of the external a consumer who is also there and who can accept the thesis that ukraine is nazis who have a dirty bomb and who aspire to nuclear weapons, who is there? lavrov once again said that they want to prove to the whole world that we are fascists, that we are nazis, and we must be drowned and killed because we have dirty weapons, because we are almost on the brink of another blue eyed person regarding the possible technologies for the production of nuclear weapons, or

is that right? well, first of all, the iranians are currently an ally of russia. he supplies them with drones. he talks about supplying them with medium-range missiles. the conversations continue and that's why a-a-a iren it's definitely not about us the whole world er-er during this war understood er-er one simple thing, one simple truth that we are ukrainians we are by our mentality history actually by our way of life by the way we defend ourselves and defend europe, we are europeans, but russia is unknown who, but they are definitely not europeans, they are not europeans in terms of their values, if you can

call them values. they are definitely not asians, since they are based on asian values. although, by the way, the east of russia is more reminiscent of eastern values so who no, they are definitely not europeans, and secondly, i also heard statements on russian television that if everything was not according to it, look at what they simply say: let's kill everyone who does not recognize themselves as russian, that is, part and dialogue of this regime of this country, the leadership of this country is what ukraine simply does not exist. well, putin is already constantly saying that ukraine is an artificial entity, an artificial state, an artificial language, an artificial history, what is not artificial, and who is to prove it, the entire russian dialogue is completely bankrupt, that is, it has no

it makes sense if there is ukraine and if ukraine is successful if ukraine is fighting and if ukraine is winning all the more then what is russia in general neither europe nor asia and it is not known what the hell from the side of the bows eh that is why in fact the struggle with ukraine has for this regime an oleksian character and precisely that's why i say and talk about it with our western friends who are consistently ready to support us. what is the liberation of our territories? yes, this is our super goal, and the common goal of liberating our people is also our super goal, but the entire western world cannot feel in security together with this regime is not only ukraine, which is covering up now. and you, the western world, today they are

talking about a stray bomb, then they will talk about an atomic bomb, then they will talk about viruses and invent laboratories on the territory of ukraine, they have already done it, by the way, then they will talk about chemistry they will talk, but they themselves are bringing their chemical weapons to the front, that is, we are doing great with them, they will never believe it and the west will not go either. means that, firstly, the russian regime does not want to surrender, putin has not changed his goals in relation to ukraine , and whether the goals remain to destroy ukraine and destroy the ukrainian nation, ideology, they understand what to fight, but no one wants to mobilize, and that this is not their war, we

we understand that this is not their war. even these nationalists understand what this war is about. they are trying to create this artificial hatred like an empire that never happened. they wanted to prove that we are a country that never happened. and they are proving that they are an empire that didn't happen, they understand that the situation is actually getting worse because it will be hard enough to get out of this situation when the whole world considers them losers and weaklings, but it also means that they are super dangerous because they are ready to raise the stakes as much as they want. sensations and their existence, but mr. pavla, well, you can’t constantly blow the jet, you can open your eyes and explain that we are not to blame for anything, it’s you on ukraine, i’m to the point that this story is about a dirty bomb

that they want to bring to the meeting of the general assembly well, anyway, in this situation, it is necessary for them to explain to the world in a reasoned way, although the whole world said that you know that these are insinuations, lies , the defense ministers of great britain, france, and the united states of america made a special statement in which they simply refuted this delusion carried by the russian federation, how long can it be be this jet in the direction of the general assembly of the un and also in the direction of the red security, as long as this regime exists , the answer is simple. there is nothing to convince him to do his wave

of propaganda inside the country, and it is quite effective, by the way, but he will also wage an information war against the whole world, and putin, he wants not only an information wave, he wants to reboot all the western elites, he is about he said this directly in st. petersburg and he will continue to do so, so the question is very simple as long as this regime exists, so i say to everyone that the key question for today's event is, of course, helping ukraine to victory, but it is also critical to start discussion and what to do with this russia and this regime, well, it’s obvious that you can’t agree on anything with him, because nobody gives him any more. and if you ca n’t agree on anything, and putin doesn’t want to, he does n’t believe in there are no agreements or agreements

, he, uh, shadowy things actually believe, well, that’s the mentality there, and this actually means that we need to have a serious discussion with the west. and we are actually now becoming part of the west. and what to do with this russia, which means restraining this russia, which means and is the event now ready to work on rebooting this regime, and so far there is no consensus on this, what should we do to convince the west that it is impossible to live with this russia on the same planet and it must be done absolutely consistently, and as you say, i agree with you 101%, sergey well, really got an endless amount of money, there is nothing to make excuses for, but prove that this is another lie or another frenzy but nevertheless, we have to

do it, this is a war and we need to achieve victory in the context of what moscow is now repeating about this dirty give the bomb again i mention her, but serhiy lavrov is already talking about the fact that russia demands from ukraine a list of people who died at the hands of the russian occupiers in buch, if there is this synchronicity now, please, let's hear it and we are already from those portraits with a request to provide information about the names of those people who fell victim and their bodies were demonstrated to the whole world as an investigation of the villain of the russian military, i even appealed publicly a month ago to the old general so that he i still managed to get a list of these people, no reaction at all, nothing

more than evidence of how transparent ukraine is, you know, lavrov has nothing to hide, you need to give him a shovel and send him to bucha so that he helps the people there who mutilate the bodies of people who died during the russian occupation and to force him to do this work, the cynicism shown by lavrov and the words he says and the statements he makes to the whole world shows that it is obvious that russian diplomacy in russia, forgive me. well, it is simply finished and what is the place after our victory, lavrov should have it. well, i believe that this list should be submitted to the international

criminal court after the work that is currently being done by the court and all our prosecutors and all the bodies responsible for it, and the list and evidence and all these stories i believe that the court should make sure that the whole world hears every story in this story, so that when they judge, each story will sound like we can rebuild it, and it's the same as nuremberg, the same as tokyo, the same as any -which the international court of justice has announce the final list and now we have to work with our friends with the aim of uh, we discussed the evidence as carefully as possible so that nothing goes wrong,

many people are helping us and on a bilateral level and the european union, but really we have to make sure that uh, every little particle does not and for them all to hear it later in the international criminal court or whether it will be a specialized tribunal so far it is difficult to say. i am a big fan of a specialized tribunal of course, but it is very important for us that it is not only ours and the western the whole world should be behind this story. they are. now you talked about russian diplomacy . they have not been involved in diplomacy for a long time, but they are engaged in propaganda everywhere in the whole world. of the criminal court, let's see what the decision will be, there are different options, there are options that are even quite

creative, so that in the end, the whole world will hear it, and if the whole world doesn't hear it, then what is the warning that it won't happen again, but i i emphasize there, i don't know how many times i have already emphasized that living with this regime on the same planet is dangerous, everyone who has values ​​should learn this , why in the western world not in the western world at the level of the subconscious, if you want, at the level of dna and this is our task while we ponder mr. pavlo about which court and on which bench they will all sit, uh, putin's press secretary piskov says that moscow can start negotiations with the americans and with the french and the pontiff, he said someone should call the president

to zelenskyi to lift the ban on negotiations with the russian side, we will hear from piskov if this is all in line with odessa's efforts in terms of finding possible solutions, then it can be evaluated positively, but on the other hand, this statement does not say anything about the fact that someone should call the president to zelenskyi and to deal with the legislative base, which cancels any negotiations with the russian side, so we are ready to discuss all of this with the americans and with the french and the pontiffs, they once again repeated that russia is open to all contacts, but drawn schemes got to the ukraine to defy the continuation of the negotiations , they complain that we do not want to talk with them, they have been inviting us for eight months, and we do not want to talk, eh, taking into account what piskov says and taking into account the father, this already symbolic date of 8

months of the beginning of the great invasion, about what foreign policy conclusions can we make, what conclusions can we draw about the un, about international security structures, about how ukraine coped with the foreign policy task in the end we're not talking about russia anymore well, in fact, the words peskovo, which you just showed, are not so much about what he will say, that they are so similar to russian whining, but let's finally start and we want to and we're ready and let's go already to ask ukraine and this is actually a good signal in this, we have children regarding the lessons of the whole war, i think what to do them 100% early on, it is

perfectly clear to us that the classics, as i call them , the structure, such as he showed their total helplessness and inability and inadequacy in modern conditions, i am of the opinion that they need to be reloaded, many of my western friends , why do we need a repair, if there is a cosmetic repair, then in this sense there is none, do you remember we used to say that there was a european repair, that means on everyone there, on every step of the it was written on every wall that we offer a european renovation , but if it will be a european renovation, so real , real, i don’t know, maybe he will somehow help. but the league of nations once excluded the ussr after it started a minus to finland, er, he is not capable. well

there are no eggs to exclude russia and say , in the end, even though it is a matter of selecting it in the security council, that is why i treat it with, if you want, a frank appeal to this un and many times in frank conversations he said this to the leaders, as for our partners, they were too slow in many cases they were too indecisive, it was very difficult for them to get out of their comfort zone, but nevertheless they woke up, uh, nevertheless, in many european countries, a fundamental breakdown of consciousness took place, well, look at germany at six o'clock to ask someone months ago that they will supply us with such weapons as cheetahs or modern air defense systems, there would be

hysteria. and now everything is developing, everything is happening , and the germans are also giving 25% of the european contribution in terms of financial assistance, in general, the help is too little , but nevertheless the post office in here er here is why i believe that the western world er and here the will of the americans is absolutely critical showed itself again with a collective measure before this there was no collective measure to speak of er well i just don’t know what not you may not want to. and now there is a collective measure, by the way. it is very difficult for countries like china, which want to fight separately with the staff, to fight and compete separately with the states separately, there are some bridges from europe to build separately with others, now it will no longer

work, a collective measure is and we have to join him, not as a victim or a beggar , not with such a mentality, with an understanding of our contribution and in the heat of a collective event, and with an understanding of what we can do as a passionate nation like those who is ready to protect our values, this is certainly what concerns other structures, well, look, the european union made a decision on the candidate status of ukraine for the first time in the history of the eu. the decision was made during the war, and it is actually a geopolitical decision, the european union, which really did not like to jump and look at things and talk about them as it is, after all, he did it for this one to him