tell me honestly how are you oh my god i promised myself not to cry it's hard i'm tired i'm starting to shut down i can't take it out i'm having a hard time the only thing that saves me is music my family my children when i'm having a hard time i clean so our house has been very clean lately get ready walk in circles focus on your steps and breathing, choose a soothing mantra and repeat it aloud or in your mind, for example, i have arrived, i am home, i am here, i am free, i am alive, everything is fine, i am safe, put

this technique in your first aid kit, self-help, more here when we are afraid, when we are in pain, when there is no more we are supported by faith, faith in those who only yesterday were a student who fell asleep in pairs and a colleague who always brought goodies faith in the fact that our heroes will win back, defend, lift up and eventually win, we will not leave hope hope for ourselves and our strength hope for a strong shoulder second hope for our indomitable people we are inspired by love love this winter

we will fight the enemy and with the cold we will check the weapons and the insulation of our houses destroy the enemy and drafts greet our brothers at the front and relatives from the front-line zone in the rear we let's get closer to victory both on the front lines and at home let's beat the winter together the rules of a warm country healthy care in the house it's cool but not cold thank you for dressing your deer to warm one is easier than to heat an entire apartment let's beat the winter together

the national marathon continues the only news on the air intera information service my name is oleksiy fadeev welcomed the attention of the world in october, in addition to the war in ukraine, was chained to the people's republic of china , the 20th congress of the ruling communist party was held, the country with the second largest economy and almost a fifth of the world's population is an important international player and one of the contenders for world domination. however , perhaps the most important reason for increased attention to the main political event in the people's republic of china was the danger of a military conflict over taiwan, an island nation that china considers its province . today we will talk about china with our guests in the studio. this is oleksiy koval, a member

of the board of the ukrainian association of chinese studies, and ruslan osypenko, an expert on international issues and ex-executive director of the chinese trade association i congratulate you on him, i congratulate you, so gentlemen , you both connected your activities with china well , my personal experience says that it is impossible to simply connect activities because the chinese are such a complex topic that you need to devote at least half a life if they are a whole life and that's why a-a well, in addition, you are ukrainians, like all of us, immersed in the modern ukrainian context and discourse. i want to ask you, first of all, to what extent do ukraine understand china and understand the importance understanding of china for any state, including for ukraine today well, let me start , this year we are celebrating 30 years of

diplomatic relations between ukraine and china. uh, relations, yes, that is, before they were under guardianship, then they gradually disappeared, in fact, then they reappeared, then disappeared, yes, that is, and in fact, these relations do not add anything to a good understanding of china, because it is simply an interest it disappears for certain periods and that's all, it is not fed somehow, although china is the first and second economy in the world, china is the main trading partner, but on the other hand, that is, someone who deals with it, of course, we are always interested in them, but this public interest arises in this way too wave-like i would say and that's why i'm not the chinese, you just understand the chinese, a country that needs to be watched constantly in order to understand it, the changes that are happening there, which we are thinking about, we will talk about. to observe, that's why it really doesn't add to the

understanding of, let's say, ukrainians of china, that's why there are a lot of misunderstandings and even some stereotypes, in fact, which have nothing to do with what is happening in china. ruslano, what do you think, i specifically understand . little underestimated - underestimated china and our relations with china are really so fragmented , they develop and then pause, there is no doubt that china is a dynamically developing country, it is actually an economic leader and according to china's plans in 2049 year for the country's 100th anniversary, they and they want to build a developed. in short , developed socialism, that is, the essence is to completely shape your society, restore your attitude to your chinese nation, and determine the role , place, new role and place of china in world international relations, that's why it is necessary to be

, so to speak, in a new one, in time to go and observe modern china as it develops and from that if you observe, you can have some profits for the country. we are talking about uh mutual dependence is now actually global about mutual development between countries, as oleksiy said, this is the first trading partner, starting from 2019, we earn 7-8 billion dollars there, and it’s not enough to evaluate these bilateral relations, well, it’s just stupid , you know the point of view, gentlemen, both said about eh well, the executioner said about it like waves, uh, fill in ruslan, they said that interest appears and disappears, and what is this related to? in your opinion, have you observed why there is interest in china? why is it disappearing in ukraine? well, here complex it seems to me that oleksiy already said about stereotypes. and i will say about the political component, and not the understanding of it. what are the goals china sets for

itself, what does it do, what does it create, what does it develop, what kind of society does it shape in our opinion of the chinese, communists in fact or aliexpress is about as simplified as this, and china is somewhere far away, it is complicated, what to understand, that is, a person is at the level of these stereotypes and actually builds an attitude towards china. china is much more complicated, and today china offers harmonious relations in in general, he offers a model to the world, if we talk about international relations, which is actually based on the theories of the ancient theories of taoism , confucianism, which developed in china, but today they are modernized, and on the basis of these theories, there is a freshness of harmony and a middle ground of non-conflict, and china is trying to build such an ideal world, to put it simply well, an ideal world with chinese specifics with chinese specifics of the modern era of the modern era so we will

talk about it now and if we talk about interstate relations and how well ukrainian diplomacy sees china, how well does it? well, let's say it is so professional from the point of view of the chinese, how do you think it treats china? well, we have a problem. that is why we have not weakened for more than one and a half years. this is the owner, the main trading partner, so this indicator is why there is diplomacy, although mr. koleba has repeatedly said that for him the search for a candidate for the chinese ambassador is one of the priorities. on the other hand, we do not see that there are any competitions going on, which, in any case, is what we know inside e-e of the chinese chinese society. yes, there is no such public issue, for example, a discussion of who can be an ambassador. even this was earlier. yes, that is, during the appointment of kamyshev as the last ambassador. well, now some decisions will probably be made. of course

, mr. president will make the final decision, but this is an indicator. yes, and the second. the second indicator is that in a country like china, in principle, all diplomats must speak chinese. this is a must have. yes, how? let's say yes, but really, for example, in the first staff of the embassy, ​​it was like a requirement, but at the moment, in the embassy in china, as far as we have, not all diplomats speak chinese. of course, this cannot be. poles, all diplomats speak chinese in the embassy and so on. that is, this is very revealing, just as the attitude towards china is. if we talk about the chinese language and briefly touch on the linguistic aspect, i don't know in kyiv, in ukraine they teach normal chinese there are teachers who teach chinese, but the general situation is as we discussed before, the attitude towards china is that it is something distant and

ukraine cannot and does not need that, and specialists, uh, you can simply count them on your fingers who speak chinese and delve into the culture, yes really look, that is, now the opportunities to learn the chinese language have become much more, some parents, for example, let their children learn the chinese language without even understanding how difficult it is at first and think that it is cool just to the child knew, but in fact she does not become a specialist , yes, that is. and here, is it necessary or possible to expect chinese without communicating with the chinese, if the specialist is not chinese, the chinese are far from china, the language is for the audience, i will just remind you. it is almost impossible, you have to live among the chinese, because even the language is one the word she carries several meanings of variability, it changes, therefore the context changes, the context changes, and the same word can generally show the diametrically opposite meaning, because you fully know how the chinese use the chinese and they also love their culture, which they speak in an

indirect language, they speak, you have to understand that they write between the lines and speak and you have to look and read the lines if you, if you read what they said to you, they translated it, then you simply do not know chinese chinese and do not know what they wanted to tell you, that's why you have to live in the environment, understand how these words are used, in which cases these words are used. language, it's in it. a living, living instrument, actually . from some important topics. but i think that this principle of speech is due to the fact that ukrainians themselves. minimum i won't go any further and they really think so or not, the culture is the culture of the chinese, it actually went beyond the borders and thanks to the culture, in fact, china kept

this hegemony of the tianshi er-e sinocentrism of the so-called culture was at the base in the base of these relations that were formed within the framework of this concept, in addition, culture should not be forgotten that china, which during almost its entire history was subject to conquest , was ruled by the manchus, jojos, mongols, china remained china and all the mentioned sooner or later became chinese and i want remind you, who knows this chinese proverb that china is like the sea, how many rivers do not flow into it, and the water is still salty, and the chinese language and culture in this matter belong to the leading one, for sure, if not writing is not a language, and so on. there would be no china as such, including modern china, to which all views are attached

. i was preparing for the program and , er, hmmm, i read the news about it, including everything, and i always have it on the air, er, but this time i didn’t leave one question, what is china in the third term, all jinpina, which started literally, but it’s different basically from that china that was before that why is it different and is it different well let me ask yes i think that first of all what is really new china has probably become more like that well you can call it organized yes from the inside that is we are with mobilized yes that is he can someone say that he became more closed to us foreigners yes now we will even understand it less we will have to open it again for ourselves yes that is why this is happening because in the wave of reforms that were before that yes china adopted a lot of foreign experience gradually that's all

came to naught and now in fact after sisinfin and in his report we heard it very clearly that china will still rely on its own strength, he again talks about the fact that this is a new period and a new era, which has already been mentioned here, this is really the era in question the opinion is over, yes, the era when we were becoming, let's say, on a level with, well, let's say with developed countries, is over, now a new era of organization is beginning, and it will be precisely chinese modernization, which, again, will not copy any other countries, it will be again are there any new ideas, mechanisms for the realization of these goals that this new modernized socialism said about? that is, it will all be new, and i think that for us china is turning again, even for us specialists, china is again turning into such a mystery that we are now able to decipher and decipher using hieroglyphs again but this is also i think it is also interesting and this will also be exactly what

will hold if in tension maybe in some certain times these so-called challenge yes challenge will be the whole world and for all the people who want where to go in the future to cooperate with china and even treat it with fear with some kind of yes, that is, they expect some surprises from china like and by the way, why are they treated with fear well, why can ukrainians treat it with fear i have a version because china declares close ties with russia, and russia declares even more close and even more honest, which means ties with china, what is this? is an alliance possible, who is russia for china? for ukraine and whether china treats russia in general how to really get a partner china always defends and will defend its national interests first of all because it has far-sighted goals of the revival of the nation e.e. the restoration of the role and place of china in international and world relations, therefore

russia is a temporary and tactical partner on this historical at this stage, china can simply take advantage of these relations in order to actually have, from my point of view, time to realize their goals , that is, russia provokes aggression, distracts, distracts the attention of the euro-atlantic world there china is engaged in the development of what it, by the way, china quite calmly commented on all this, mainly how to stop the conflict and you, i agree with you, the conflict should be stopped, just like that, that’s right, it’s exactly the roots in confucianism and pretended to be sizma, it’s not conflict, dao he withdraw from the conflict in order to solve your issues, but withdrawing from the conflict according to the chinese theory does not mean giving up the initiative to withdraw from the conflict in order to then win the initiative and realize your goals, that is, it is more complicated here theory, if we talk about what, what is for ukraine, for

ukraine, i think that what we said in the first part is not an underestimation of relations with china , and not deep, deep work with china does not give us the opportunity to fully receive all the benefits from these bilateral relations, from my point of view, ukraine should open at all levels, for example , a trade representative office, in addition to appointing an ambassador, there should be a tractor, a trade representative and a trade representative office, because the first partner is the trade representative and not of trade in front of the representative office, there are one or two people in the embassy there who are engaged in trade relations, this is impossible with such a country of one billion 300 million people and it completely means to deal with this issue, to cover it later, uh, information, look at what we saw during the war, the distorted presentation of information and not understanding by chinese society incomplete understanding by chinese society of what is happening absolutely and the feed from russian well if the information is from russian feed yes because that media center which and before this

there was a russian cr-i service, the ukrainian national service of international radio, china central television, we are now united, the media center seems to have been there for how many years, the media corporation has been there, and it is still dominated by russian specialists, russian narratives, how do they have russian people's deputy, russian narratives, we are trying to work through the embassy through the official line , but this line does not work because it is necessary to work 4x7. in fact, this is and we do not have an ambassador and there is no corps, in fact we do not evaluate just informational influence, that's why we have votes like that at the un, we are offended. yes, why didn't we support the zaporizhzhia station, the order of the questions, eh. on the main issues, yes, china says that it supports sovereignty there, the inviolability of borders, but in the nuances, we see that china somehow votes not so, not on the side of the nation of ukraine. yes, these are our shortcomings. there is no corporate body. there is no ambassador. there is no trade representation. you

can say that the chinese do not know anything about ukraine. no, i would not say that they know everything. they are distorted, they are distorted with very often, although very, very stereotypical stereotypes in the same way, but i will give an example like when it started . when did the offensive of the ukrainian troops near kharkov, for example, begin, especially yes, even the chinese media could not take into account with all the desire they cannot ignore the successes in ukraine , that is, if we were to demonstrate that when we even demonstrate, this applies not only to the current war and before, if it were some kind of economic gains or big ones there it is, the chinese are tracking everything, they understand everything. they know the potential of ukraine and they simply do not understand why. that is exactly what is happening . yes, why? the war

will end in three days and everything will be fine, but when they saw that everything was going wrong, their trust in russia, in this sense, also fell, and now they look more at ukraine as a country that really wins in an army that is much stronger yes and it seemed to the chinese that the russians also sent all these people to the chinese yes, that is, now, that is, the chinese still know how to analyze i think that there is a part of the chinese, let's say, who really work , first of all, with ukraine, first of all, they analyze, but there are not many of them, but they let's say this is a sufficient amount so that the leadership in china does not have all the information they need about ukraine. and tell me, please, gentlemen. what do you think, the chinese definitely observe and analyze everything, i completely agree, this is an axiom, just like do you think that the series of military defeats of russia in ukraine, which are now large-scale, somehow gave the

chinese a reason to be a little more cautious about their own military potential, because we understand that despite the size, the chinese army, which is called unfired, has never fought. it is true on such a large scale, and how much experience is possible and it is possible that china's reflection on the conflict when russia is defeated with it can affect the further development of the taiwanese situation. i think that china is doing, observing, drawing conclusions for itself, and there was a statement at the congress, er, three er, main topics on which he emphasized all the ding-ping, this is food security. yes, the number one is always technological security and the development of the armed forces, and the third one scared the world precisely because we immediately saw the reaction of the markets, the financial markets collapsed, and china seems to be becoming more and more aggressive. china draws conclusions simply from the situation

that has developed, and there will definitely be a confrontation because the world is now divided into the so -called democratic world and the world the world with others models are called his autocratic world there, in other terms, this geopolitical distribution, it cannot help but be superimposed on new concepts of development, if up to this point the concept of development in china was openness starting from 1958 . it was even confirmed in 2015 at the fifth plenum of the central committee of the communist party, they even then declared that it is necessary to be open in the global world, only then can you take advantage of the global world and continue to develop, because when you develop , you are not beaten, when you do not develop, you are beaten , yes, directly, yes, that is what they said, and

now one of the components of stability will actually be lost. i think that china understands they do not remove the openness of the reform from the agenda because technological development will lose stability. and in this direction, superstability will work, i think china will work in a dialogue with the united states of america, from this dialogue of the two superpowers, in fact, there will be depends on how the security situation will develop and the economic and flight cooperation between the states will be determined at home above the states and what is the place of russia here in your opinion well, let me say that on the first question really look at china is modernizing the army there are plans until 2027 when the century will be just the foundation of the chinese people's army, the red army will be completed in order to complete modernization, just the war in ukraine, it gives the chinese reasons to revise the concept, that is, first of all, let's take, for example, that

10 years ago, in fact, the chinese did not have a military fleet, now it is, yes, that is, space systems are being modernized, that is, china is the first country that shot down a satellite in orbit with a rocket, for example, in the world, yes, that is, the new technologies that china is making, they understand that it gave the size of the army, and china has an even larger army there are more than 2 million people, yes , it is not an advantage in the modern world, yes, and it is free , and they are reviewing and, and, in principle, taiwan is also observing, that is, how to build its defense in this sense, but really it must be said that in sisinpin's report, it was also noticed that there was a lot of complexity in terms of security. the term security was mentioned there, security in various formats , not half a hundred times. and russia is not a player here, on the contrary, russia is destroying this security, well, it is destroying

china, and it will never be the other way around, it now has to minimize these factors, new negative factors that were created by russia precisely because it is russia that strikes on this initiative, for example, the silk road, which china very actively implemented the last one, it should be stopped, yes, in fact, yes, it has been stopped. yes, it has been destroyed by russia and china now. well, he says that it will not stop. but i think that it will be reconfigured. yes. in other words, we will have to focus more on other regions. therefore, i do not see any role for russia in the future in any dialogue about this new system, because until it changes its behavior, china, too, i think, is also giving such signals that it will treat it in this way. is this situation absolutely possible? it is wise, almost in chinese, to use it to our advantage, in what way, what should be done to intensify work with china. that is, we know that we do not

use bilateral relations properly, in order to use it, i said that it should be developed in all directions, information security, trade, political direction , we do not have all these directions to developed not to er, so to speak, we have not completed work in these directions and here the state instead of er, you know, i somehow take offense er, you have to look at yourself first that we have not done our part is indisputable. china has its own national interests, it has its own position in the world, they will defend their interests. we have our own interests, so in order to secure our interests , we must take advantage of it. we must keep up with the modernity of modern china. geopolitical, on the one hand, the situation as it is, on the other hand, the role of china cannot be removed, because if we are in the trading room in trade with china, our export is 0.96, in fact, a technical error of 1%."

94th year and gave guarantees to ukraine as a country and that they voluntarily got rid of nuclear weapons, as we remember, and even in the last treaty, it seems in the 13th year, even the mechanism would have been signed and prescribed although it was never used but why not return to this conversation on against the background of threats from russia, that is, ukraine should make a request to china at the official level that let's discuss this situation, but we are also threatened by the resolution of the un security council of 1995, which was signed by both china and russia, which also says for example, about there are such threats, this is exactly the situation that in such conditions the

security council is convened there and so on, and it begins to be remembered, but it should be china, right here. it has obligations to us . that's right, yes, really, the government, no, we can't do anything, we forget about it because, roughly speaking, we are now gravitating to the other pole, and well, these are different worlds , and we don't match our worldview, well, it's so overwhelmed, almost, let's go, yes. look, if we 're talking about the strategic interests of ukraine, then we let's say that we now put forward security, our security and our main strategic interest. yes , western countries provide nato now, but china can also provide it in a certain way . so does china, yes, that is, we still need to have a dialogue with it, yes, because it is also a significant power, that is, if we really ignore it at all, well, then nothing will happen, then really, then we will only focus on it, but i don't think that's exactly what it is

it is in our strategic interests to focus only on one center of power, let's say so and not conduct a dialogue with another, but gentlemen, you mentioned a very small technical error , yes, our percentage in the structure of china's foreign trade is less than a percent, and in general, what can ukraine be interested in china, well, motor sich we have already passed. this is all for each other or the economy. this is the main factor that works in favor of ukraine. china is working to ensure food security, but it is a country that lost russia. it has lands where it grew food crops and actually ensured its food security. china remembers this in er, even that is, territorial claims are not shared anywhere, when in 1978 the er chinese were asked whether they would to win back their territories. they told the russians that as long as you are strong, we will not have any claims against you , that is, they honestly answered how it will be