soldiers look at their commander and trust him. i don't demand from people what i can't. if i can't shoot a student, i don't demand from people. i have the right to demand from them what i cannot. the company will finalize the final coordination in a few days . the soldiers will go to the east, and there they will not have the combat experience of the commander of the hero of ukraine, ihor dyakun. he knows that a feat always has several components: preparation, luck, courage and belief in victory.

uh-uh-uh-uh, since cossack times, under the cossack cross , we defend our native land, we fight for truth and will , we believe in our victory. glory to the defenders of ukraine, i protect ukraine, my blue sky, the morning silence of the fields, i protect the culture of tradition, the cossack land, i protect the borders my country, i protect what is important, my mother, my wife, i protect my ukraine, we are the ones who will be the new strong

, free and independent ukraine, i protect, i protect, i protect, i protect the border of freedom, the border of dignity, the border of humanity, the border of indomitability, the border victories the state border guard service of ukraine, the primacy of honor , a horror on black, armed to the teeth with rage and malice, she pushed into the very heart of ukraine to plunge us into an abyss of fear, hatred and impoverishment, three rows stood in the direction of kyiv, that's all

the military equipment stood. that's why they already saw when they had already left the first units of the equipment began to be shelled from one side, it was not scary as long as i was alive. hatred showed a documentary in public on wednesday at 9:30 p.m. in marathon, the only news was the gesture of the two-socket rule, he turned on a powerful electrical appliance, turned off an equivalent one instead, the simple rules of a warm country, we will win the winter together,

the war that is going on in ukraine today has shown that history has become a real weapon, historical facts invented by putin events that never happened and became the basis for an attack on ukraine, and russian society believed in these fictions, believed that ukraine was created by lenin, that we as a nation does not exist and that moscow is not kyiv is the capital of kyivan rus but do we ourselves know the real history of ukraine, how to approach its study and most importantly how to teach it to schoolchildren, and in whose heads we will either lay the foundation of its understanding or a vacuum that will be filled with fictional stories and this is very it is an important topic that we will talk about today on the air of the night watch in the studio of natali ostrovska. i am yevgeny plinskyi . we are visiting today. present to you today's guests of our a-a because they are people deeply immersed in the topic ms.

iryna krasotska, editor-in-chief of the ukrainian educational publishing center orion, a person who has been engaged in textbook publishing for how many years, ms. ryno, oh 30 years, that is, the story in your head is big. yes, textbook creation in to my life , and mr. ihor krasutskyi, deputy director of one of the private schools in kyiv and, most importantly, a history teacher who, in practice, can do the same for many years, all of this has been tested, yes, nuances and all the problems. greetings, let's start, you know. i want to start with such a hot news that happened the day before. putin in the next one has already stated in the briefing that putin constantly distorts history, but the next one is his pearl and the statement that mariupol is a russian city that was founded by

russians. literally before the broadcast, i just opened wikipedia and read that mariupol was founded in this way, because i was never interested, let's read a modern settlement at the mouth of kalmius, founded in the 16th century by zaporozhian cossacks as a sentinel stay at home to protect winterers, industries and communication routes from the attacks of the crimean tatars . what is putin doing like this when a russian city was founded by russians, and it is not the first time that they are very actively trying to appropriate the history of ukraine and we have already talked about it a lot. look at what is actually happening in the legend of brotherly nations persistently cultivated by russian historians. it fell apart back in 2014 and was already blown to pieces under the blows of russian missiles, but in the heads of entire generations of ukrainians so persistently and consistently invested in moscow a version of history that this mental separation is still difficult for us, let's just look at the

discussions that have been going on for a long time in society about the renaming of the street, about the monuments to whom to leave the commune and even about the percentage of russian literature in the school curriculum and it seems to me that this is a sign that we need to return to the true history of ukraine, and this process is still long. therefore, i would like to suggest that we focus our conversation on the and what challenge does the current time pose in the study of history in teaching history, what changes are needed, what can we do right now? well, in my opinion , changes are needed, and we need to start such changes right now, without waiting for the victory parade on khreschatyk, but this is my own opinion . reno, ah , well, changes are necessary, but they happen, they happen every 31 years. and for which we, uh, have

our independence. i would say that even in the past there were changes in the best history teachers, but we have to talk about changes, for example, it is even possible to start with such that our textbook on creation in ukraine 31 years before independence in ukraine is not a class textbook on creation, all textbooks well, with the exception of the ukrainian language and ukrainian literature, all textbooks were translated at best from the moscow a-a physics, chemistry , algebra, geometry, etc. was not in the ukrainian language version of a-a or was taught in russian, there was even such a precedent in the 70s that it was proposed to translate a textbook of ukrainian literature into russian and teach e-e ukrainian

literature in ukraine, it is written in ukraine, it is written in ukraine, it is written in russian, and to the credit of those people who wrote textbooks for many generations - this is the institute of pedagogy, they refused , they all refused this proposal, mrs. ryno, and can i clarify the version right away which, let's say, i've heard and there are still some textbooks in school circulation from soviet times, a little modified, a little added by ukrainian authors, but whose basis is this? well, let's say it again, 25, well, 30 years ago. years ago, and the process began to take place, so at first something was translated, but uh, in principle, at this moment, uh, it may be, you know, that there is something left in the libraries from those times, and when there was a replenishment

of this library fund and those textbooks, but now this process education. it is very powerful and very diverse. let's put it this way, we will come back to this process. i just want to hear you ask, as a history teacher, as a person who is with children. we see that ukrainian society reacted very painfully to this fake historicity. which russia is trying to promote together with its troops yes, we are openly indignant at the fact that we are one people how come there is no kievan rus, there is some kind of russia and kyiv has nothing to do with it at all and do we have the power and resources to counteract this? that is, we are proverb yes, until the truth takes two steps, a lie eats the whole earth, how do we have time

to counteract this, so that, in particular, children at school do not grab their heads for these theses, and are interested in the truth, the understanding of the historicity of what really is kyivska rus that really kyiv is kyiv that indeed, mariupol is a ukrainian place founded by ukrainian cossacks. maybe that's how it is, i'll clarify. and do you see a desire in children to reread history? maybe there are some younger classes if it's older classes or some additional literature based on what they've seen and learned now. well, first of all it seems to me that in general these questions arise more in people of middle and older age, to be honest, children do not particularly have these questions, hmm, i encounter uncertainty, uncertainty, it is in the older generation, which had only one picture, and then this picture began to be

changed, moreover, it was changed not in the school years, but in the later years, when, well, often there is no time for people to read anything extra, and so on. and the children. years is what, well, not a single child, i don’t know, i won’t speak for everyone, but not a single one, not even a former student, came to me. no, i didn’t come up with a question. how could this happen? and how could they do it ? yes, there was a shock from the very fact, yes rockets flew and we still hoped that they would not fly, well, such a state of shock that oh my god, this is our fraternal people there. how could this happen? but no, in my opinion, everyone understands perfectly well, and these are both ukrainian-speaking families and russian-speaking families, children now they understand better, children live on the internet, that's what you say about the reform, the reform in the historical context, it would be interesting, it would be a departure from, uh, just

cramming a certain number of dates into the head. ecologically with these dates do they it develops critical thinking a lot, that is, every time you stand at a bus stop and talk to someone you know there, for example, about history, some pensioners can come up and say, oh, the historian, tell me when ramses is there, i remember more than that, i remember how we they taught us history, they forced us to learn the concept of culture - this is the achievement of humanity in spiritual and material life , i remembered it for all the years until i die well, but it is also important how do you teach an interesting story so that children are interested in it and encourage as many children as possible to know one's history. i believe that the key point is extrapolation to modern times. i try to start from the first year when we work with

children - it's the fifth grade. younger children can walk. i try to explain everything that happened once, how it is related to the present, how it affects the present, it is clear that when we talk about the times of the mammoths, it is a little more difficult when we talk about the times there, for example, the liberation struggles, it is already it's much easier, but you can find these tricks everywhere eh and well hmm let's tell them something that they can apply in practice eh they all understand well now understand the economy well, they understand well that it is necessary to understand it, they are beginning to realize that this generation really realizes that it is necessary to understand politics well. this is not bullshit . already ro- they understand that it is important because as i remember , for example, my school life in the 90s,

units were generally taken seriously, but some topics were economic and political . history had to be studied in which year volodymyr rus was baptized. as far as i know, i observe how my son studies, of course now he is in the eighth grade . i really like it when the textbooks meet for such special tasks. think about it and discuss. and what could be a different reality, and by the way, i thought, friends, uh, in this conversation, it would be worth making one remark, since we will talk about schools and a huge number of uh people who work for the education of our children, i want to thank mr. igor and, through you, all the teachers who teach our children for their heroic work, now i really work because i have to teach

him in bomb shelters and under the danger of rockets a huge thank you to everyone, and why am i mentioning this because it is very painful that any talk about teaching at school, about textbooks, is always taken personally. then that's it. the purpose of our broadcast is not to blame someone because there are some of us we just want to draw the attention of society to those people who are involved in the development of textbooks, so that it is possible to look at them in a different way. territories, this is the first step they take, yes. and this shows that even there in the kremlin, they understand the dictator and his entourage. it is important for us to say that the first step is the saturation of the occupied territories with history textbooks that interpret it the way they want they are the first thing they are

doing the destruction of ukrainian textbooks. and how about this thesis, yes, the history of textbooks. they just import russian teachers directly into the world laws. has become a weapon, and are we hyper-globalizing it, and do we really understand that this is really the case? as a historian, i would like to hear your opinion. you said that children now live on the internet. the internet is also filled with a huge number of fakes, and there are enough professionally made ones, and for this they are used to it. have lived in a forest full of wolves since childhood, and they understand this, unlike many middle-aged and older people who believe that if youtube shows them a video, then the video it shows them is the real truth, because they will not lie we change the tv to the internet. yes, there

are a lot of such examples. it seems to me that the weapon is not only the story itself, but the very thing. hmmm , the mechanism for creating the pravda post is used by the kremlin when the truth becomes what people believe, and not what is the truth, in fact, they do it not only with history, they do it. well, if we look at them, for example, commenting on combatants in ukraine , yes, if every evening on tv they say that we were destroyed there, only then there are heimersov and so on, then someone starts this to believe yes, but we want to we now understand how effective i am, our weapon is the teaching of history, our textbooks, and i will explain why. because for a very long time, as a mother and as a journalist , i wanted to talk about this topic with specialists. of social activist larisa nitsoy. and she compared the covers

of textbooks and stories for the fifth grade, demonstrated a polish textbook and a ukrainian one. now we see them on the wall, viewers can also take a closer look at the idea of ​​the post about even the design of history textbooks should contribute to the patriotic upbringing of children, and she simply has such a hot, emotional, radical self. who writes it, mrs. larisa, tell me what kind of cover affects the consciousness and subconsciousness of children . - and some knight on a horse is heroic and with a flag, this is what ms. larisa polska writes, this is how she educates our covers - it is anything, taste, design, but not education of children through emotion, she even assumed that such design of history textbooks in ukraine is done on purpose and they called it sabotage in education, well, in short, radically

provocative. but it's a good reason for a discussion in my opinion, and that's why i'm glad that we have ms. iryna as a guest today, who can possibly comment because she i will tell you honestly, i too for teaching, in particular, stories because of emotions, because of people's stories were remembered by the whole nation because i will tell you my son remembered the history of zaporizhzhia sich through the story of hetman baida-vyshnevetsky and who the turks threw him on a hook and he hung on that hook for three days until another turk shot him in the ditch precisely because baidy vyshnevetskyi cursed mohammed and all his followers and this whole dramatic picture was remembered by the child and made him want to study it in more detail the history of zaporizhzhya sich, but far from every chapter of our

history textbooks you can find such an emotional moment. my opinion is contrary to this criticism of the covers. yes, it seems to me that it is much more important to dive deeply into the textbook and analyze its content. how important is the cover really important and here you mentioned it is your symbol how did he remember the story of zaporizhia sichi and i have it for my son this story of my father we study zaporizhia sichi it remained in his head forever when they the whole class went to zaporizhzhia sich was great to answer that they spent two days there a and he came back with such impressions and i told him that this is what you remembered there it is now in your head for the rest of your life and it is wonderful but again do not understand children there is an opportunity to visit the places of all historical events on ms. reno, let's go back to the textbook, to

textbooks and covers, i know you have a different view on the cover of a polish textbook, for example well, we will talk about the fact that we cannot talk about the cover and the textbook separately, because everything it is a single whole and i would even say that when we said that history is a weapon i would say that education is a weapon yes, it was like that well, it was just a sad shock, but there was a mariupol school, a photo on the internet of the mariupol school, number e 45, seems to be destroyed, and textbooks are thrown out in its yard and our primer is laid out, our primer is on the first page where, unfortunately, i don’t have it today i took it with me, but in principle this is just a horror, well, it was n’t a horror before. and you can see how, ah, what is familiar to us is children

in ukrainian costumes, and some names of cities, names, something that was completely familiar to us when the barbarians came and they it destroys they destroy these those things that are just ordinary for us, that are invested in textbooks, and they are important, they are important, this importance is ordinary for us, but a, but when it is in this, in such a space, there is a tragedy that is happening now, and our resistance and struggle, struggle for our own, for our own for oneself for one's people for one's country for one's own everything is not in the textbook and so that there are no trifles in the textbook, yes, i agree and

a little bit, so you can object to the thesis. - this is such a door i would say to knowledge, but for example, the history of ukraine, the eighth grade is my son's textbook. yes, i agree with mrs. larisa. yes, it is possible that it is stylish, it is possible that it is cool, how many emotions does it cause? well, do you understand ? the baths of a temple famous in ukraine, uh, cause a desire to really immerse yourself in the study of uh, this history, and these are the doors that either they want to open or they don’t want to, that’s what the story is, and we talked about the fact that they are immersed in the internet right now, and that causes them such clip thinking for them pictures are important to them important photos, i am an adult after my university, i enjoy reading uh,

these long chapters are printed in small letters, but it is precisely to make a squeeze out of them. to be honest, and to interest my son, because i am trying to help the school a-and that uh- what am i trying to get him interested in when we teach cases in the ukrainian language, i come and say artem, you have no idea how easy this topic is, the names of the cases indicate what the questions will be, the same was the case with the story, i am drawn to the story some character and that's why i tell him, but to put so many dates in your head. to be honest, it doesn't matter how full our textbooks are, it's difficult, it's not important. fifth grade, eighth grade. i'd say it's high-quality encyclopedic texts. of our textbooks for all these 30 years. i know that there are changes in the textbooks for the new school. tell me

, please, for me as a mother, in particular when it comes to discussing some school problems, i particularly like the textbook, everything about the content about filling in about the sequence of events about the accuracy of the facts it scares me that very rarely in such conversations of a child the word interesting word yes absolutely this principle it is dominant in the preparation of textbooks what we need you definitely have because i have already analyzed a little you brought it with you textbooks from history textbooks, the eighth grade, maps, help, the process goes, and help, and rubrics , and each of our textbooks, and it encourages the child to think and work independently, and as for the covers, this is exactly the eighth grade characteristic and before that, because this is a painting by a modern

artist a-a hm, on which the hetmans are depicted a-a and it seems to me that the emotions in this picture are quite a lot, ugh, they are alive yes, and by these portraits, you can already check the educational history it’s all further. it’s further, and his picture called the discoveries of america in world history in the eighth grade, but hryhorivna probably knows just that the discovery of america by columbus is being studied, that is, these textbooks, and even the color look, what color is the cover, what is it to you it reminds of the cossack flags crimson color ah a that is and this and this is the baroque of the middle ages e such and such uh well in such a color in such a style a-and

palaces in france were decorated in those times that are told about in this textbook of the eighth grade you all that they took into account, of course, there are no fractions in the textbook, everything is taken into account, everything is taken into account, well, there should be an image of the textbook, you know. once upon a time, many years ago, when we started working on textbooks, and we were making a ukrainian language textbook for the fifth grade, i asked igor serhiyovych, what do you think should be the main thing in the ukrainian language textbook for the fifth grade, and igor then said that he should be surprised he should be surprised by this textbook or well, in principle, for the 1 2 3 4 grade we already have to teach -e, we have

to write, read, well, what else to teach in the ukrainian language, in principle, it all seems to me that every lesson and every topic in any subject should be started with the effect of the attention of the deputies, but i am listening to your discussion and i have such internal doubts. and we in general well, we are discussing, but i want to meet igor ask is it really important to the children, what is the cover , what is the number of dates inside, what is the number of photos, is it more important to them that when the history teacher enters the class and starts telling so that the children do not even take the textbooks out of their portfolios, listen, memorize, and carry the facts that have been laid down is only one comment, because why did mrs. iryna discuss all this with mr. igor , we will tell our viewers this, because in reality it is a mother and her son, and actually, this is how it turned out that the

mother publishes textbooks that she uses or not my son uses it, but i know from family conversations that the teachers are grouped together by a teacher who thinks that a good teacher doesn't need a textbook, children really need it now, the color cover i remember myself in the eighth grade, what a baroque, what flags are you now leave mr. igor to argue with my mother and we will discuss together. because after warning, it will be tough here that we need them with the textbooks. well, here we are, in principle, we are saying that the textbook is, after all, a state topic for us, oh-oh-oh the textbook of the state before the textbooks are certain requirements requirements of the state i this thesis is such a very good saying i heard it from hrytsak yaroslav hrytsika see