well, it would be untrue to say that we are unfamiliar with fear, that's right, because we all heard the explosions, and indeed this fear is connected with the understanding that even those attacks on energy facilities began a little more than two weeks ago, from october 10, very three weeks we will say so and in fact for these when we see let's say in the media such numbers these numbers that you announce officials who talk about 30 40%. do you understand that if this is well , we shot down 40-50% of the missiles there at first, yesterday if you believe the numbers that 80% of the missiles were heard was shot down, but even the 20% that are flying in, they have already destroyed such a huge amount of electricity, well electricity of the electrical infrastructure, you really start to think, ok, if two weeks, three weeks are spent on the destruction of forty percent, how long will it take them to destroy everything, and it's really this is a very difficult question that i am often

asked by foreign journalists. how do you see it ? you see it this way, and this is indeed a view of the future , in particular, this winter that awaits us. when it will not only be about electricity, it will be about heating. to say that it does not scare does not cause anxiety , it would be untrue because it really does not cause everyone, there is a plan, it would be very good to have spare options, this is the image of the quest, yes, how to survive in this situation and always have to pay plan b what do we do if if there is no light, if there is no light, i honestly say that i have no idea how business works, how coffee shops work, how shops work, i have already had to, for example, go into a store and take products in a basket, stand in line with this basket at the checkout, there were two or three people in front me and here suddenly there is a plekout and if all these baskets are put on the floor and when i ask what we are doing now, we say we are just leaving the store and it is good that this is not

the last product, yes, that is, the life of my children did not depend on the products and either way they did not remain hungry anyway thank god but i think about how the business is suffering, so people went out with all these purchases and then 4 hours will come, the light will be restored, but if the economy , that is, the actual income, so this small business already if it will make up for it, it will be extremely it's difficult because then there is a curfew, then some other restrictions, and obviously this will affect the understanding that we are very vulnerable, this is one of the discoveries in fact of this war, but from the first moments i remember the first days so when it disappears so quickly well, first of all, food then first maybe the fuel disappeared yes then food then the physical yes yes the usual world everything closes everything if only how fragile is what we call if our life civilization and when it comes to light even now then you remember that in february in march we didn't have

such problems thank god for the light and i remember this panic when there was an attack on the television tower in kyiv and it was one of the most such impressions of mine because i thought, well, okay, now they destroyed the television and then the television disappeared, but if they will destroy, for example, the internet connection and we will find ourselves in a situation where we don't know anything. it will be very difficult, that's why it's real, such a panic appears when you realize that you, in addition to your empirical experience, are what's around you you're not you can understand the general picture as possible this is something professional, but i think it is ultimately important for all people to understand. so when, for example, even yesterday at the beginning there was no connection and it was scary to hear that they were far away. but it is clear that they do not threaten our lives, but obviously nothing pleasant, but the worst there was no internet, you couldn’t see what was happening when we set up the internet and realized that

more than 50 rockets were flying there, of which 44 were shot down , they fell there, there, there, even this presence of this shocking picture is reassuring but really anxiety, i would call it fear. rather, this kind of tension and anxiety has turned into an everyday thing for all ukrainians. you can calm yourself down in different ways. i see that a large number of people calm themselves down by what they say. well, look now, the people who are at the front, that is, the people who actually everything depends, that is, those who shoot down rockets and those who are in the trenches. look how they are, how they live, how they sleep, do we have the right to complain at all about the fact that we have no light there for four hours and we flew there a few meetings or some kind of communication is unpleasant, but it is not critical, this is a measurement from the worst, that is, from the most heroic, so

it is possible and right because it does if it brings such heroics, this is the ethos in the being in the being, of course, of a citizen. is it just mom with with a child is it just a young family is it just a student or a student all of us, despite the fact that we are without weapons in our hands and we are, in principle, and if we do not protect so literally, literally, it is possible to sense ukraine, but if we divide to a certain extent these difficulties are filled with fate, including the military, and from the fact that we will not panic, we will not try as much as possible and keep ourselves and help others a little will depend on the general climate and the general atmosphere in society, this is actually also very important this atmosphere that people are writing to each other everything is fine with me we don't have water we don't have any either well it's okay we'll wait , that is, from all this, from this understanding that you are not alone in this situation, from panic very much

often and from m-m such and such a sum, yes , the understanding that in fact the war really leveled everyone, that is, here we are in fact, well, we are talking about some kind of brotherhood, yes, some kind of sisterhood is possible. yes, that all people in the end, in the same situation, almost everyone has let's put it this way. i will once again return to your travels to kharkiv with voloda yermolenko and about your impressions about the resilience of those people because i understand that we still live in fairly safe and not in such wounded conditions and on such in a wounded place like kharkiv and kharkiv region, do you feel it? when you talked with people there in kharkiv region, do you feel the same solidarity and resilience that you just talked about? well

, kharkiv is a fantastic place in general. now this is a place where you just physically feel hmmm reinforced concrete and the people of kharkiv, they really feel it, and so do we, why do we always want to come there, because this atmosphere really charges you with the atmosphere of the people who live in the city where we are located for many months, under constant shelling, this place, despite the fact that it seems to suffer a lot from these shellings, at the same time, they continue to make resistance. and this is armed resistance, but it is also cultural resistance, and i do not get tired of recounting this impression. when you come in the city and the people who take care of both civilians and military are none other than people of culture. is this serhiy zhadan? yes, is this a well-known

ukrainian poet ? principles have very little to do with military affairs, it would seem, but these are the people who helped both reinforced concrete and civilians at the beginning. far from military affairs, what sights should be bought or what binoculars should be bought or what characteristics should we have? those are the cars that we want to buy for the army. that is, this is a story about humanitarians who are trying help as they can so and when this is all that is happening in the yard of the church and the church if at the same time their or for this this cultural network and there that every 30 minutes

a military car with people in uniform as well as directly from the front lines there they stop by something quickly and there they are immediately fed, then they take all these devices. are they binoculars or something else? and so on. and they quickly drive on and so-and-so and so-and-so this is this understanding of the point where the whole society converges, so there the church is here and culture is here the army is to say what a very powerful image that never ceases to inspire me, just like their concerts there , their ability to organize festivals such as, let's say, the fifth kharkiv, which recently took place and will continue to be so episodic, the fifth kharkiv kharkiv is in the basements yes, in these concrete and underground premises and the number of people who pass there, we witnessed the fact that svyatoslav vakarchuk and serhiy zhadana came to the conversation well, i think it was several hundred people, that is , it was difficult for him to even fit in in the room, all the people were standing there, there was not even a

place to sit, and nevertheless, for almost two hours, it was such an inverted, inverted pyramid of oil. so we were told for a very long time that first there should be safety, then it would provide some material basic needs, and then we will talk about culture in kharkiv - it's exactly the opposite, because despite the fact that there are no basic yes, they do not have basic security needs and, unfortunately, they will not be provided as long as the war continues, but this people who are interested in culture and how they give off power, in fact, they also answer the question why do we arrest this at all? these are fantastic things, in fact, about what draws you to kharkiv, so that in order to recharge myself with this, i remembered yesterday 's post by olesya, the director of the art arsenal, who returned from europe from the literary festival and wrote about her feeling of returning home

. connection but you return home and that is where you feel yourself at the most intense point of life. it seems to me that this is the most intense point of life. olesya, this post is really for someone, these pictures are for kyiv, as if it were ukrainians. i think europeans feel it. by the way, we also know many foreigners, in particular , journalists who come here to work, who then return and have this feeling that something real, authentic, yes, you can look up different words for this, what is happening here, but it

attracts a magnet to us, obviously, or we are here, but we also attract a magnet to those who are watching us from the screens, if we say their televisions there. and here is such an understanding that something is very important here is what is happening here now. well, we have come to the promised topic of surterrorism. and this is the term that you proposed back in the 14th year. i know that you talked a lot about this with volodymyr yermolenko in the cult tip but since we have the audience is somewhat different, i will allow myself to ask you once again to explain what it is. what does surterrorism mean and what is its purpose. ugh, really surterrorism is such a term, such a word, well, a neologism that i came up with back in the 14th year, when i was in the

annexed crimea, we we saw the first steps of russia in the occupation of donbas, if it is a combination of two words, on the one hand, surrealism, that is, as a direction, an artist who struggles with reality is only trying to reach a certain level above reality, which says that the imaginary is more important than reality i.e. that realism and, on the other hand, it is obvious that terrorism is a method of achieving one's goals. what is this term about? it is a term, but in fact, it is about russia as an aggressor. it is about the fact that russia is not waging a classic war in our understanding of this word. we have talked for many years about the so-called hybrid war, which has its own informational component, but in the word this terrorism is very big, well, this is a moment on terrorism and on the use of exploitation of the imagination, do you remember that when russia annexed crimea and occupied part of donbas to us

it was difficult to explain to the europeans, but we did it all the time anyway, that russia does not need horlivka, it does not need donetsk or luhansk as a simple place, they need a demonstration of power, a demonstration of influence, just like terrorists, yes, if you look at the genesis of this phenomenon, terrorism is still walterbini at the beginning of xx century, he very correctly observed that terrorist attacks at that time increased in number at the moment when the printed press spread, why does this happen because a terrorist is not someone who he wants to kill a large number of people, he wants to know about this murder, about this aggression, or about his ability to carry out this aggression . as many people as possible, for what reason

? in aspires to what many people were afraid of. that's how the crime-monger later also defined the phenomenon of the nature of terrorism in general. a terrorist is always someone who aspires to smoke, master the imagination, yes, our fears , yes. these series of terrorist attacks in the 15th year, i remember 16, well, in any, in principle, in different decades, there were terrorist attacks in this one, we remember how huge the media attention is to this and how much people are afraid of terrorist attacks. although if you look objectively, the chances to die in a banal road accident or from any other disease is much higher than to die in a tourist attack, but they fear it because why? because it can happen to anyone and anywhere, in fact, and russian aggression, it

also has the nature of intimidation intimidation and at the expense of this intimidation to increase their imagination of their own greatness, that is why they did not need horlivka and debaltseva, so he needed the event of conditionals they imagined to agree with the fact that russia is a strong player, what is happening now since the 22nd e 24 in february, it obviously continues this line, our latest attacks, well, against the infrastructure, it seems to me here that in addition to the fact that they really weaken, well, purely objective things, because without electricity it is difficult in the rear , but it is also difficult to plan a counteroffensive there and so on, but apart from all this, the most important thing is this very intimidation, so let's see what we

can . international journalists, and everyone wants to know how it is, ukrainians, how is this generally experienced when people live without light, without water. it seems that they are watching us. in europe, how they live. that is, it attracts, yes, even if they were each person. obviously, it measures a little on themselves and asks themselves the question. why can we endure in such a situation here, but russia, again, because of this mechanism of terrorist intimidation, so it tries to increase the perception of its own strength. well and the image of surrealism. why so? because this is the final loss of connection with reality. we used to joke that russia's economy is strong, so where is the gdp there, in terms of gdp levels, it is equal to a small european state, let's say there portugal we are used to talking about the fact that russia is no longer as strong as it once was, even the

soviet union, which also, as we remember , collapsed, but it is precisely against the background of this weakness that this is the affirmation of the affirmation of this strength, this is just such a combination of opposites, and here it really is here is our topic with you today, this weakness of russia, it is very well manifested here, and by the way, when we started talking about tourism, i remembered the interview of a military expert that i saw the other day, and he talked about these shaheds about these flying iranian mopeds that drop er on our cities is completely inaccurate blind absolutely military weapon er it is not military actually it is just a blind imperfect er machine that flies and far away but it has no head, nothing

is pointed it is a stupid machine and here is this military the expert said that anti-aircraft defense is ineffective against it because it is not a military weapon, it is a weapon of terrorists, and it seems to me that this is such a wonderful metaphor that it is actually the russians who use such flying belts - it is called chess, so the flying belt of shahid is for that to hit not exactly on some objects, but they get into our houses, but in fact, hmm, this is what volodya i romanko calls the anti-system system, this is when russia behaves like a weakling, so what are can't uh can't uh win with some achievements means means of production but she uh possesses some

means of destruction even if it's terrorist now and in fact uh because of such a monopoly on death uh we come out living constantly with a gun near modest right, do you have the same feeling as us? you need to develop, live life, don't be afraid to be creative, understanding what it is. this is monopoly to death. how do you perceive it? unfortunately, we have no choice. because while this neighbor is who he is, well, that's how it really is, as long as there is this cooperation . i really like your metaphor about these martyrs and how iranian drones are really imperfect weapons of terrorists and i didn't know that air defense can't deal with them precisely because they are not military things in fact, that is, they don't

understand them, it's a different logic. yes, i see the analogy. logic is not the logic of a warrior, it is the logic of a terrorist. and indeed, when two armies are at war, one uses military logic, yes, a military game . civilians, it really seems to me that everyone feels all this, you know, these millions of ukrainians , we all feel at least sometimes, yes, that moment that in fact it can fly anywhere and everywhere, and unfortunately, you also have people who die from the same mopeds, we will remember, they were very impressed. this story is about a young couple who died in kyiv, in the central part of kyiv, a young woman who was six months pregnant

and they died from this sheheed, if through a civilly civil house - it is simply, well, impossible to come to terms with this if yes, and we understand that we are actually all such goals , maybe the fact that there are many of us saves us and maybe just for hm, if for statistics, if for the theory of probability - it doesn't have to be the end, but that's all there will be someone else. someone is the same as you in that, and it doesn't matter that this someone is the same. but this is not a military man. we are forced to live, and it seems very important to me. hmm, after all, we are this feeling of rage and hatred , this is a feeling that has become our everyday life too, we are this mostly we feel it especially on monday morning, when the working week begins with such shelling . but it seems to me that one of the goals is also the enemy of the russians, it is that we become, well, really just like them, that we will only have this black

hatred and there is nothing more for us in this the world will not be of interest, and we need to think about the fact that , in addition to the idea that we need to kill all the russians who are in our territory, we still have the strength and energy for any additional thoughts, but not only about this, despite the fact that it is very difficult. war is like such a black funnel, if our society allows itself to be drawn in and we will only deal with what we think and our main uh, if our energy and emotion is hatred of the enemy , unfortunately, we can very quickly turn into the same society as them and they in the principles of this and what they really want is to bring us to such a state of madness. so when we completely turn into such russians. therefore, it is not that there is no need to hate russians or treat them there. this is an argument in the other

direction, it is an argument that we how is this not a bird, but we must find the strength to continue doing what we do besides fighting, so we are talking about culture, we are talking about literature, we are talking about development, er, i will give you one image. simple and clear to me, it seems to all ukrainians when my children go to dance and we, for example, the middle daughter, we are on- the coach writes to us that today the class will take place even if there is no light, so we come to the class, it really is already dusk and, in principle, not so it is comfortable and there is no heating, but they put some telephones , lamps there, and the children continue to study. when they looked at it in the lutsk mothers, this was the impression - this is her form of resistance. yes, this coach who could go abroad, she also has three young children she didn't leave, she stays, she comes to

her workplace, she does what she did before the war, like our teachers and they try to do what they should do in their place, so this is also a form of resistance, so keep working to improve is it art is it to continue writing books to continue writing poems to continue - to continue to think about the future - this is actually also very important and it is no less important than military actions yes , this is a very good idea actually from such a thought we when they started talking about what it's like to climb these stairs without an elevator and every step is like a path to independence to freedom, you started talking about the russians and i'll have time to ask you more about such things, here i am just out of professional interest i monitor what the russian public writes so that it is russian, the russian media is propagandistic, what

the russian publicists say and here they are every time amazed by the joy with which they perceive these blackouts of ours, how they post pictures of the absolutely dark darkness of evening kyiv or lviv, especially kyiv and lviv, for some reason, it makes them happy, and this people is a mudslinger, as they are, what kind of intoxication must it be, so that it is deep. the people do not notice the victims, such innocent victims of this genocidal war, but see the rescue mission in fact, in such punitive actions, what do you think about it, is it possible to correct it or roll it back? how, what is the future of debates or what in this society, and this is a very

difficult question, because the first answer is of course which comes to mind that they have no future because there cannot be a normal, healthy society, where this is an ominous feeling over destroyed or deprived cities, if it were to turn into some idea of ​​this evil, it would be a consolation . such a living connection with or among the people who live there, that's why i didn't dare to say anything about it, but for me , the biggest discovery of this war was the discovery of how much it was studied studied a kind of powerlessness in russian society, no one could have predicted that even the military operations that have been going on for many months are obvious

and available on all platforms; the destroyed mariupol; see so go and look so go and and despite all that there is no reaction to this, there is absolutely no reaction to this, or that is, such a toothless reluctance to see one's own criminality or evil-pleasure and pay attention, we hoped so well, not that i hoped well, there were such thoughts that this mobilization will finally be something, and if they finally understand that this is not a computer game, that this is serious, that it is also about them, and that if they are also going to die , they will come to their senses, they will stop, and if we see that i'm also impressed by the public's eyes. if there were videos like this where they complain and say that it 's such a shame, they gave the weapon badly and how it's

a scientist's boiler and everything is bad, but that's not the point , they're not outraged by the fact that they're being sent to kill citizens of a neighboring country are outraged by what is happening to them this was poorly equipped, and at the same time, there are about a million of them, if i remember correctly, they call such numbers in the media, so these russians left, so they left for kazakhstan, georgia, finland, and other countries, there are a lot of them, but i am constantly infuriated by this i remind you, whenever there is an opportunity, on the western airwaves, on the european airwaves, i will tell you where all these people are, why we don’t see them, we see such rallies and demonstrations, ukrainian about ukrainians who support ukraine and where are all these russians, they all left? why are they silent earlier, we wanted them to justify what you thought well, it's difficult for them, they are afraid, they risk their families, no one wants to take risks, they are afraid of the regime in russia, ok,

but when they traveled outside of russia, what prevents them from expressing their position, why do we not hear them ? if such inconspicuousness and headlessness, some kind of lack of a face, they don’t have any face at all. apart from this terrible face of putin’s regime, i don’t see it, maybe i’m looking somewhere wrong, but i don’t see any other national identity, and i don’t want to to say that there are no good people, volodya yarmolenko and i also discussed in one of our tips, of course, there may be good people among the russians, you are their units, but these are rather some isolated instances . that's why they really are either disgusted with our tired cities or they are in this learned helplessness and are somehow in russia and say that we are not subjects at all, they say that nothing depends on us we are small people