a strong separation happened for the first time a very strong separation a-a in russian politics in russian media of your guests said that there is only one madman, this is putin, all the other enemies are normal, but i don't really agree with this , there are quite a lot of such madmen, you are dying in this finger, so i think that you don't have enough fingers. even if we don't need to touch medvedev volodya simonyan yes further further he will have to take off his shoes i'm afraid i can't say it correctly for my work i know you can't go for it as a well-educated dude but eh there you'll have to say that, we'll have to count for a very long time most likely it will be even if to take

public policy, here are those people whose names mean something to your audience, that's not a two-digit number, that's a three -digit number absolutely insane full name mraz by the last name is trittykov he serves the deans er dean so say er institute university journalist i don't know this i am my former editor of an independent newspaper i know well yes well i know him well too after all 10 years he worked in the general sector journalists of russia, therefore, he has always been like that, but he has never changed. i congratulate you. his rhetoric has changed, and uh , i don’t know. in what years did you work with him in the independents?

i created it, so i don’t depend on it. when berezovsky financed it, it was one person. then, he bent over the line of the party very obediently and tried to be the best student in each and every element of these bends, so now it ’s absolutely freezing as a person who all the time says that it is necessary to kill, it is necessary to destroy. in short, it means, uh, you won't believe it, well , literally today, in the 60 minutes program, there was a discussion between a--an absolute narcissist, absolutely, so to speak, a supporter of annihilation all and all tretikov and from one country and popov and skobeeva from the other side skabeeva stood up against the nachetchik against the chelovek tretikov called immediately so say well there er arrest all the property of er european countries what a-a skabeevo popov er attacked there is no ethics, i never

thought that i would support any theses of this couple, but they quite once said , excuse me. what kind of phone do you use? where did it come from? what kind of watch do you have? and what kind of car do you have? burn также how are you going to burn a sign of protest in the flag of european states? well, this is rhetoric - it's a polemic between people from one country and completely different ones who, so to speak, carry a complete veil and are ready to burn the whole world in a nuclear war . by the law of nature or contrary to the law of reason here they are specifically in this er in this in this fire this is it lele so that means ska and popov suddenly suddenly began to speak out against this boss in favor of so say something well some uh-uh so say uh-uh fascist common sense uh-uh this evening in the program of

uh evening muson there was also one more discussion here already means slavyev who spoke for him all the time says that it is necessary to absolutely fuck nuclear bombs according to the united states of america well, he says so all the time, which means , uh, they began to dominate him, too, quite obvious putinists, who, yes, the basic idea was that , well, there is no ukraine. they infect the common man, and for the first time i see this on russian television, we began to object that um, sorry, uh, what kind of divisions, what kind of wax units and connections, the united states in america, with which we are at war, is located in ukraine, what did solovyov start shouting about, well, you know what there is free of charge the instruction can be said to say that you will ask, uh, the instructor can be. well, how do you say, we are at war with nato, sorry, what are the divisions of nato, what are the troops of nato, specific new ones, that is, some

part of the public there was scared. you know the division that's what, yes, first of all, they were scared because, er, russia came close to the third world war, russia came close to destruction itself, it is clear to all normal people who, in principle, know the laws of mathematics, it is clear that um , if you say so, it will come to something like this things of russia will be simply destroyed simply destroyed and most likely what happened today, this is an attack on er poland, it will lead to er, well, if not full-scale entry into nato in this war, that is unlikely well, most likely, it is true the transfer of the insuza, which begins, er, the allocation of serious receipts of serious weapons to

ukraine , which are in a position to destroy the very same. military airfield i have a lot of friends there who i talk to who constantly say that it is impossible to sleep eh constantly heavy bombers are flying, they are flying to the west, where are they flying? bombers from the military airfield uh-uh, it means uh-uh, well, a mysterious picture, they are probably flying, so to speak , on a course to belgorod. yes, that ’s exactly who bombed from this airfield today, today they destroyed the city, uh, districts, whole districts , whole houses in kyiv they destroyed, so, er, there kharkov, which has been without light for a long time now, they destroyed lviv, and it is quite possible that the strikes were carried out here and on poland, here i am here , i will speak carefully because i do not know. but here is the question. today's moment in the answer it can't destroy

your obnoye airfields, it's not the civilian population, it's a military opinion that is a source of danger for ukraine, the answer is simple and because it can't and because it doesn't have the kind of weapons that allow it to destroy military objects on the territory of russia why isn't it destroyed to so far , the ural car plant is a military structure that allows and actually produces military armored vehicles and other deadly weapons that destroy they don't fight ukraine like that excuse me, this war is reminiscent of a boxing match, in which one fighter strikes with his fists but elbows his head with anything, and the second , so to speak, tries to bow and, so to speak, fights only with the tips of his fingers. here this is how today's war of ukraine against

russia looks like, that's how i think, to be honest, when we talk about how people change, that is, i think that there was always a group of people associated with the chekists who always called for such a fervor the attack on the west she simply can be camouflaged. well, that was the time they asked. i remember when we met. i worked with vitaly tretykov since 1990. this was the time when i created an independent newspaper. then i just introduced myself as i walked into the editor- in-chief's office. i asked him how you can publish fascist articles in a liberal newspaper by the people of the village. perestroika, as you remember, yes, and i saw that there are people who do not understand what we are talking about, they never changed, they were just able to reveal themselves completely now and always . now

, who is stopping them in the apparatus? well, the day will come when the negro will stop them. личный i saw how it is a complicated story, it's not what it was in the beginning they always were like that it's not well, it's a story how is it when, on the one hand , uh, some internal ones were included, well, you know, here's the british uh historian of the great on my kalengoda's view is an explanation of some of the effects of this, for example, this is what is called corruption of consciousness, when a person is forced to do something mean for the sake of profit, and then begins to change the picture of the world so that there is no peace in this map he didn't show up pod lysom ​​такой есть well, for example, there is also the same norkin well, it is unlikely that you would agree with the fact

that norkin worked there in the team of yevgeny kiselyova he was already such a savage, such a monster, a fascist that he represents so here i think that you will waste time with me, everything will be simple then, you didn’t know his looks, you just read the text, and that’s what the problem is . miraculously managed to turn off the light in ukraine yes, she is in the main release, this is also waiting for you, just a boy reporter, think again that these people did not just look at each other, and then they appeared, yes, this is what happens, the concept of each person is still here , uh, well, it’s long the conversation is not sure that we are it today . to some extent such

a publicistic term reflecting but these are different people and there are people who well, norkin, this is a classic mortgage problem, this is a mortgage, i just saw how it happened . so to speak, he became, so to speak, changing his personality structure according to the fascist nonsense that he carries, exactly the same situation was with dmitry kiselyov . said the exact opposite, these are people who have the most important thing in what is the main structure of their values ​​is coldness, and then please, he can be a liberal, he can be a humanist, he can be a fascist, anyone, but there is, well, what is called the original fascists, and there are those agatelye, i call them nachyotchike, this kind

of nachyotchik is dugin, of course, this is a person who is inside, absolutely, who is poisoned by his own views . i taught dogin, when i entered the audience after him, i was the first to ask the students to greet the audience because it unbearably stinks of some kind of miasma and the series because you are really a person seriously poisoned, so to speak, with the meat of the non-evaporation of your own consciousness. there is no trajectory there. there is no movement. effeonalnoe esseno, the same kurginyan, have you now remembered some other people, they are starting from the original well, there are such, er, reasonable, reasonable people who are ready to serve anyone and there is one more circumstance that separates these people , you know, in soloviev, at the moment, he corrects him

as a doomed person, he perfectly understands that he is already modern yuliu shcherer, he can no longer be saved. and that's why he says that vot seykaj bisnuetsya, eh, curls up with a little girl, and so on. i have people who really perceive the situation for themselves, eh, it is absolutely true, that is, the case of the loss of russia, the loss of putin's regime to them место носка мне подсудимых if i don't kill you by this time, but others still hope to say so, the cards are actually saved by the foundation, well , that's what it is, that's what it is, that's the three layers of consciousness in which the upper layer can be traced - it's an official when they say what's needed according to the theme, plast eh some sincere people expressed the same soloviev at the top level in eh state channels, he says that everything is going according to

plan, putin is doing everything right, everything is being done right with us, we win on our telegram on on his uh-uh, uh-uh youtube channel, he goes crazy with a correzhets and says why no one is shot there by an owl with another soloviev but under this is the foundation of panic, the foundation of horror because they are actually afraid, they are afraid, all this fear manifests itself in them in different ways, who- he is trying to say so, uh, to save himself in this, uh, in the fire of a nuclear war , i am asking, hoping for some reason that uh, their cup is minutes, and someone is thinking about how to come to an agreement and this, and by the way, it is already starting to break through state television eh separate comrades they start talking about the fact that we should agree on them right away, uh, they cut them off and say well, how is it? we must win. well, no. well, we should agree , and it sounds completely reasonable when people start

talking on federal channels, i literally heard it today when they say, well, what do you want to see, we are eight months in the forest, where is the victory? where will it come from? 1.5% of the economy is against us, so to speak, uh, 85 % of the modern world. well, there you can count in different ways. uh, something is impossible to do that, in fact, i think that this is today's strikes on poland, so to speak, the strikes of those people who are the strikes of those supervisors who think to check nato 's nascentness, i had to just receive a message that the president of poland is on his way to call with the president of the united states, joseph biden, and discusses this story in the er -er psevody, this is by the way speaking and it is the most important moment. what will the presidents come to? this will be the line that will be discussed in nato, agree unconditionally. i think

что сейчас момент истыны сейчас момент истины сейчас момент истыны for nato and putin took advantage of that moment when, so to speak, everyone was, well, usually they choose those moments when all people are, yes, when, so to speak, well , understandably, he attacks there at 4-5 in the morning, well, here he is, he looks like hitler, he is not very similar to a guitar , our personality is so here, there is a difference between these two thieves, firstly in terms of scale, and secondly, in the fact that there was an ideology in this one, putin has no evil and hitler had a toro, that’s why he was ready to die putin has nothing but himself he doesn't have his own skin, so he won't end up committing suicide, that's why here's a section , but he's like a gitlet, because he always attacks suddenly, and here he asked, well, everyone's busy, everyone's at 20, so here's a convenient moment, the only moment in the last few months. when everyone was busy , then that's right, here we are with you, er, people of a ukrainian-

centric view of peace, well, for us and you, nothing more important exists, but peace is greater than er than ukraine, and more than er, this is war, and that's why 20 people were employed completely second things to the concession of zelensky, which we gave 20 minutes at the time. as for all the others, far from three, this was a real event . this new bipolarity finally gave birth to a new popularity of the world. there were a lot of different questions that, well, what is called the attention of world leaders , er, 19 world leaders, that is actually very

funny. zelensky chose the 19th leader, that is, he renamed the 20th to 19. so he tried to find an adequate word for that because, well 20, how are we used to it? but 19, when calling 7, when calling 20, he got used to 19, and by the way, i don’t rule out that 20 will return as much without russia, well, after some time, i really hope it can be shown it's fantastic, but ukraine will be able to grow to such a level economically, militarily , it is now the number one country, but economically. well, there are some chances to become the 20th . in the twenties, i hope for it. i hope that according to kraimere, she definitely entered the seven, and today the seven can be renamed the eight, because in the last meeting of the g7, it was held under the actual absentee chairmanship. that is why

, but we are with by you, ukraine, the centric world, and the peace of the daleks. to strike when, well, in general, america was busy with so many other things in clothes that it would slip, it didn't slip, now the question is completely different, but because it's not reagan at all. the reagans are not there. thatcher is not even there. there is no such thing. they want it. this is a separate story, but in this case, it is possible to say that in front

of these people in the dolitels, the free world is ending . it is a serious challenge. how will they respond to this challenge? i think that the most ideal option would be not even to start a full-fledged war in the country of ukraine, but simply to provide weapons, because in fact i am absolutely convinced that if there is a sufficient amount of uh er, long-range heimers, if something like tomahawks appear in ukraine, it’s not necessarily a tomahawk, but that’s what it’s possible to destroy such russian military objects as the m-m military airfield m-m under engels, but rather vyngilsi, as eh, it means, well, the ural wagon factory and dozens of such objects that represent absolutely legitimate goals for ukraine and represent a threat only to ukraine in general to the whole world igor govenko russian journalist publicist was our guest on

this broadcast thank you for late at night joined our conversation and the next meetings. now we will talk with andrii doshchyts, extraordinary by the word ukraine, who headed the ukrainian diplomatic mission in warsaw from 2014 to 2022, mr. andrii, you somehow, well, you saw you, you somehow don't hear us, you see us because you just half-dark well, we are really half-dark because there is no light, well, logically, electricity. i just have a flashlight on. thank you for the flashlight. thank you for joining this broadcast with a flashlight. let's try to understand the fact that literally took place while we were recruiting you. duda and biden are talking to each other about the actual shelling of poland, what do you think it could lead to ? why would duda want this conversation? what will he get in

return from biden? ukraine claimed that russia would never stop on the territory of ukraine. now when these missiles actually entered the territory of poland by mistake or not by mistake, it does not matter if they are russian missiles, they are on the territory of poland, they attacked poland, and therefore i think that poland should ask for an initiative to protect collective security, as a member nato and the application of the fifth article on the collective security of the members of the nato member countries

and what else can poland and the united states actually do is to become more actively involved in the anti-aircraft defense system of ukraine because these the missiles that fly to ukraine have the full potential to fly to poland, so i think that poland and the united states and other nato member states should be interested in providing ukraine with anti-aircraft defense systems. look, nobody about the fifth article talking about the fourth, the fourth article, so far, the fourth article, yes, the fourth article is being reviewed, let's quote, the parties will consult each other whenever, in the opinion of one of them, there is a threat to the territorial integrity of political independence or security of any page, what does this mean? well, mr.

vitalyu is still talking about the fourth. but i think that it is to think about the fifth, because to hold consultations is one thing, but from consultation to action, there is very little time, especially in the part when we have a real war, the russians will try to de-escalate this situation. what do you think? well, they are already trying to say that it is not their missile, but they also talked about the fact that there are no russian troops in ukraine, which was not true, but on the other hand, it is also strange, the truth is what the russians said all the time only nato is on us for something will attack us, we will show him you and so on. and as soon as the threat of a conflict with nato appeared, the ministry of defense of russia immediately acted completely differently, just like bunnies. well, they were already scared of the situation in ukraine from kherson and i think that now they will be against and even

lavrov's same behavior at the g20 shows that they are afraid to express themselves, or are piskov's statements very strange about kherson, they simply avoid answers, they will also probably avoid direct confrontation because they were scared. and tell me what do you think anyway? now we see that there is a tough position of poland, the baltic countries, the czech republic, to a certain extent, germany, at least what the minister of foreign affairs of germany, elena berbord, says, and other nato countries that are not so inclined to confrontation with moscow. well, hungary, tell me. i think it's actually a good uh. unfortunately, in quotes, it's a good example that if these missiles were not aimed

at poland but fell there by mistake, they can also fall into hungary by mistake, so i think that this is a good lesson for hungary that nothing can be difficult in relations, no country can be safe when it comes to russia or aggressive pro-russian politics. but i think that what has happened now is additional arguments for those countries that take a firmer position in support of ukraine. arguments should be used in nato in the european union to convince those countries that still hesitate and do not provide and do not take such a firm position, do not give as

much help as possible to ukraine and in the confrontation with russia, it is likely that they will somehow try to silence this episode so that it does not come out, i think that nato nato well, i do not think that it will escalate this situation too much, but it will definitely choose tactics and what it will be, at least here, i think that it should to be firm in relation to russia's very firm and specific warnings about possible such incidents in the future, i would still like to ask you to what extent do you think this situation can radically change the entire situation with the war, as you perfectly remember at one time you are we were the minister of foreign affairs, then it seems to me that things changed after boeing was destroyed by the russians. well, i think that the

situation will change the war with russia because this is an attack on one of the nato member countries, it is a violation of the collective of security that existed, this is not only what we have had over the past few years, but also about the escalation of the situation in ukraine over the past few months, but this is already an exit from the borders of ukrainian territory and an invasion of another space into a space that was and was considered safe enough, so i think that this situation should have a rather serious impact on the positions of eu member states and nato itself. president duda will now act decisively. as far as i understand, this is the same for every politician and the president of poland, the prime minister. poland is now also moments of truth preservation their political face well, first of all

, both president duda and prime minister moravetskii have always taken a rather firm and clear, sometimes even harsh position towards russia. i think that they will start to act quite promptly and we can already see that the prime minister has called a meeting of the national security council, the president will conduct consultations. i think they will act quite actively to protect poland, as is the support from the countries of central europe and the baltics, which is currently available. it will be really implemented in such a more a tough position, when will these consultations begin? of course, of course, because these baltic countries. well, what we saw during the

support of ukraine at the beginning of the war by the countries of central europe, the czech republic, slovakia, first of all, i think that these countries will seriously support poland's position, the bucharest nine will certainly support poland's position. and these are additional arguments and additional strength to convince, and as i already said, those countries to those countries that are not yet ready. well, i would say so 100% get involved in confrontation with russia , by the way, the latest news. thank you andrii andrii deschytsya, the former ambassador of ukraine to poland, the latest news.