to set in motion the fifth article of the euro-atlantic charter and, accordingly, introduce a state of war against the russian federation, we understand that these things are extremely serious, but the key issue here, mr. igor, i agree with you, so our euro-atlantic partners should correctly agree on similar things with the other side with the supreme commander-in-chief's rate and is pleased of national security and defense, we understand that it is not too good to slow down such things, but i see that khrystyna has some additional questions, so i would like to talk about the prospects of today's regular rammstein, in fact, in less than an hour, it seems that this important event for ukraine will take place. it unites 50 countries around our problem and the

security problems of the whole world. in the rammstein format, you shouldn't expect anything extraordinary due to yesterday's missile attack by russia against ukraine and the fall of missiles on the border territory of poland a-a hm actually on besides everything, i wouldn't expect anything more than fantastic from rammstein, the next us aid package will probably be announced or not, which was being prepared for some time, wrote defense minister oleksiy reznikov. we remember that after one of the most massive missile attacks on our energy system on the nearest rammstein before that and just as they were solving the issue of strengthening our anti-aircraft defense and in general we are now observing the reinforcement of our positions with various devices avenger works as yuriy ignat said. well, we have lists for example, igor, is it true that what happened yesterday in ukraine and in poland will not

affect today's ramstein in any way, and this will be a meeting to agree on what has already been planned and there will be no corrections. let's go, i would i would like, maybe, in the first question. it is precisely because of the fact that people are killed and if democracy is indifference to these two people . respect life from the moment of our servicemen from people the body as for rammstein i completely share this point of view you understand that 30 partners the process

is coordinated eh from respectively one thing takes time and the only thing that can happen during rammstein is the discussion of the current event that took place. yes, i most likely think that rammstein will be placed on the seventh, the necessary emphasis will be placed on rammstein 8, i do not rule it out, but i i would also like to emphasize that ukraine has repeatedly asked and begged you to close the night agreement, not because sooner or later it can strike directly at the state nato. as

for the current rammstein, i think that all these things that were planned will be carried out. and after the center is finally accepted and made public, the scale of the assistance and, for example, the content is undoubtedly an extremely important moment. but on the other hand, we understand that the key point is the trajectory of russian aggression, sooner or later the euro-atlantic community will have to react whether we want it or not, but we will have to react because russian appetites, we see russia's readiness for peace negotiations. we also see because the russian interveners stand on their positions. and accordingly, this conflict will, unfortunately , only unfold. well, the euro-atlantic community must be on the alert, let's hope that as a

result of the shelling of polish territory the euro-atlantic community will use the appropriate protocols to prepare much more seriously for a possible intervention in this in our in our russian ukrainian war. thank you mr. igor for this inclusion for a professional discussion. igor koziy , a military expert of the institute of euro-atlantic cooperation, was in touch with the studio. now we are moving on and in touch with us evgeny magda , executive director of the institute of world politics, evgeny, we congratulate you glory to ukraine glory to the heroes i congratulate you just now khrystyna and i are our tv viewers listened to the speech of the secretary general of nato and jens stonetenberg, yes, the key message is that the third world war with the involvement of the euro-atlantic community is currently being postponed. they are trying to cover up the story with the shelling of polish territory, but on the other hand, we understand that everything is extremely serious

. and, unfortunately, the war will only continue to unfold . at least this is its internal nature, so sooner or later the countries of the euro-atlantic alliance will also be involved, because we see the trajectory of russian aggression dear mr. director how do you see the shelling of polish territory and how far can russia go in provocations against the euro-atlantic community and where will this red line be after which they will apply the right of the fifth article i think that last night we saw a tragic incident that is really likely, well anyway according to the official version that exists today, it will be possible to speak completely accurately about the use of the ukrainian air defense system and the destruction of russian missiles only after the published conclusions of the experts, however, as of

today, we see that there is an understanding that this incident would not have happened if it were not for the russian missile attacks on the ukrainian territory. in this regard, all the essentialists and others in western politics agree. that is, it is just a natural enough moment, how far can russia go, this is a question that i think it worries everyone without exception and as of today we are observing a very interesting trend if russia in ukraine receives demands regularly enough and with tendencies to intensify these strikes, then the situation which has developed around a tragic incident in poland, it will push russia to

several things, well, first of all, it is hysteria about what it is not pointing at, which, i think, will be voiced by characters like yevgeny prigozhin and ramzan kadyrov, and secondly, it is a great temptation to check how much the protective mechanism of the washington treaty is working for the member countries of the alliance, so i think that at the moment nato countries were logical to pay more attention to the situation in the baltic states in romania, so that in bulgaria, where, at the moment, there are various factors of influence , but first of all, these are the baltic countries, where there is a significant russian-speaking minority in latvia, in estonia,

these are not citizens who can, in principle, act as a certain mechanism of hybrid influence, but not only the nato countries should feel in greater tension, as it seems to me a serious threat to the countries of the south caucasus, primarily to georgia and armenia, which accepted a large number of russian refugees from mobilization under the slogan of refugees from mobilization, a sufficiently large number of people can be infiltrated to the southern caucasus, if not specially prepared, then they are ready to become, er, well, let's say such a combat muscle mass for russian influence, in my opinion, russia is extremely interested in the internationalization of the conflict with ukraine, its ego is pleased with the thesis that this

the third world war is quite possible, and that is why another country that, by the way, also felt the consequences of missile attacks mediated by moldova, where, in my opinion, what is happening at the moment is just such a hybrid tsunami although moldova has access to the sea only in the area of ​​the port of giurgiulesti, its only port is the ukrainian territory, but in any case, the influence on the official chisinau itself on politics has an impact on moldova's aspirations to become a member of the european union, it is currently extremely it is noticeable and russia is very annoyed by this dear mr. director that is, what are we to take, for example, consideration of two possible scenarios of reaction on the part of the euro-atlantic community, they will still

go more actively to support us in providing of the same air defense systems and long-range missiles of the eticems themselves, one way or the other, they will try to play by some unspoken diplomatic rules, i do not think that there is a certain consensus within the alliance on this, but i think that the way the letter was announced and the decision on the transfer of salvo missile systems to ukraine fire mars and a number of other decisions, they currently allow us to talk about and assume that the north atlantic alliance will adopt hybrid methods of countering russian aggression because that the hybrid methods of influence that russia used

in ukraine are currently relevant for the vast majority of european countries, and prigozhyn, already mentioned by me, boasted that they allegedly had the opportunity to influence the american meter. i think that the americans do not forget about such things, and they such things react quite seriously, mr. yevgeny, it does not seem normal to me that in the midst of such a large-scale war on the continent ah on the eastern borders of nato uh-uh obviously on everything is fine with anti-missile anti-aircraft defense if these firstly, the rockets flew away and secondly, they fell like that and were not shot down, so maybe now, uh, well, i don’t know, some kind of psychological breakdown will occur when , of course, the countries of the north atlantic alliance will strengthen their anti-aircraft defense in poland and in other countries on these borders -against missile defense and

even more so let's say they will strengthen its effect a little beyond the borders of the alliance, respectively on the territory of our country, because it is obviously important now after this incident to shoot down similar objects if they fly in this direction can we count on at least i would like to remind you that a few weeks ago , the petriv air defense system was officially presented in poland, which the poles bought a couple of years before, and accordingly they have already prepared the calculations of their military capable of operating them, and i think that this is exactly the case when nato will be strengthen their influence, and on the other hand, i think that the nato countries will now strengthen their influence on turkey and hungary, which have not yet ratified the protocols on the accession of sweden and finland to the north atlantic

alliance for one simple reason hybridity and asymmetry they are always useful from the russian-athens border to st. petersburg , putin's hometown, just 70 km away, the fastest possible accession of finland, in particular, and sweden, from not being part of the north atlantic alliance, will be a sufficiently powerful signal for russia, which, by the way, is not very involved in this process, so to speak, in the public similar things in the sphere of operations. they are elements of diplomacy. that is, we live in a world where there are much less er-e various reverends and much more practical actions aimed at neutralization aggressor. i think that nato's support for ukraine will not decrease. and in my subjective opinion, it will only increase. the truth suggests that the

rammstein meeting that was discussed with igor koziy will most likely be the last this year, because the world is still gradually involved in the preparation for of the christmas celebration, and our common task, by the way, is to prevent this period from becoming, among others, not only for tens of millions of people exchanging gifts, but also a period when they will forget about the war in ukraine, well, in any in this case, we have the g19 decision, yes, on the island of bali, we understand that 19 countries have expressed their position extremely clearly, but the issue of the declaration is, so to speak, an important story, but that is one thing, and the issue of further practical steps on the part of those 19 countries, a minute, please, mr. yevgeny, i think that we are too we always expect a lot from such summits,

this is still a more formalized meeting where countries that are really the economic leaders of the world gather, i wish that our task is to convince the west that sanctions should be stronger and russia should drop out of the group of twenty naturally, i.e. not at the expense of the declaration, not at the expense of speeches but at the expense of the fact that the size of its gross domestic product will be insufficient to come to any other similar meeting thank you mr. yevhen yevhen magne executive director of the institute of world politics was working now on the live broadcast of our marathon. what we are grateful to him for. and we are also very grateful to both those who work in journalism during the war and those who took up arms and defend us here as well as all the stars say, our colleague tetyana

litvinova interviewed ilya berezenka, a soldier of the armed forces of ukraine, who participated in the defense of kyiv oblast and bakhmut ilya, in addition, he is a journalist for the espresso tv channel, let's watch this conversation and listen, i decided that i really i would rather do more with a machine gun than with a microphone at this point they would shoot us once without a break at the hpp in the lng one after another for four hours i thought i died for seconds ilya berezenko ukrainian journalist of large-scale invasion enters russia lav tireo of the armed forces of ukraine and participates in the defense of kyiv region. and later, one of the most difficult areas of bahmut in donetsk region, he started working on the espresso tv channel back in 2013, while studying at the university, covered the events of the revolution of dignity and russian

aggression against ukraine. well, i was one of the last passengers of the donetsk airport in general stories , we flew there when we were already capturing donetsk, we filmed in donetsk itself at the moment of the capture, we filmed directly and broadcast how they captured the prosecutor's office, how they tried to storm the sbu then we mean they tried to attack us right there, we are rallying, it's just that someone should not be the sbu in donetsk, and it was the first time when i was in the very place of donetsk, so in - at the airport, i was passing by once again when i was already filming in the east, there there was not much left of the airport at that time that i could recognize from the moment i arrived there, but in donetsk itself, a large survey was conducted, quite voluminous, and there the majority

of respondents said that they do not shoot at all, what kind of movements with enthusiasm with the department because they not aware and they said that most of the people at the rallies are not from donetsk itself, now you are already a military man after a full-scale invasion, you joined the ranks of the tereo and now you are protecting our country no longer on the information front, but directly, and you already have there is a chance to return to donetsk already in a different role, do you believe that it will be soon, oh no, i will not say soon, but i am sure that it will be, because in fact i do not see any other way out of this situation . that is, i do not see the possibility of any political and even moral for some conditional minsk, three, four, five, ten, it's simply impossible given the situation, because we ca

n't just stop and stop now, and i think it will be a complete fiasco if someone thinks of such a thing, but fortunately , it hasn't happened yet. i hope that it won't be like that, but i'm dreaming of donetsk. to be honest, i don't really want to go to donetsk, but right now, i'll be honest, but in terms of liberating the city, of course, i always think more about crimea. honestly, when i thought about the liberation of ukrainian territories there i always imagine how i am standing in some kind of conditional yalta like this tomorrow, because at first, since the 14th year, i have never gone to the crimea, it was such a personal decision of mine. and i, i have never seen. in 2014, he was thinking about it for some time. i think that the liberated crimea will have to go to the crimea. yes, you

decide to join the tero. was it a spontaneous decision or did you plan it? well, actually, it turned out very strange. i would didn't say whether it was planned or spontaneous, it's just strangely not i am interested in all military weapons, i received several certificates of various types of training both with the americans and with the people of rehlet, but i did not make it official, since i was a journalist, and a journalist and weapons. this is a bad combination in any case, and when i was already there go somewhere with the family. i understood. well, the news has already arrived that the enemy forces are advancing towards brovary, and i decided that i would really rather do more with a machine gun than with a microphone at the moment, that even if they don't let me go there to shoot in an attack, i will teach people. because i

understand how many unqualified personnel there will be at that time to come to military service, and that's how it was. the queues were incredible in brovary, right there were kilometer long queues to sign up. well, at each point of registration, more of the work is at the beginning was still connected with the endless digging of trenches there kilometers kilometers around there brovariv villages on brovarskyi district was partially occupied in your positions they did not reach us it meant two main lines the first clash was behind brovary, behind the settlement of gogoliv, there is a small village there and we had a line of confrontation there, and the second was actually a battle for the city of brovary, then you continue your service and have already defended other regions of ukraine, so tell me how the events unfolded further i e

well, in the summer , there was a clearing of the chernihiv forests. we had large detachments there, and even special forces from these went looking for the remains of the spoils of the russian army . and all this was literally there for a week and after that we were told that we had to go to the donetsk direction to protect bakhmut, which is exactly what we started doing in august, and here, hmm, i think at the beginning of november, the last of our fighters were taken out of there. i know it's very difficult to rotate there, it's very difficult . from the very beginning, the goal was to defend

positions and be in different directions around bakhmut itself, and constant shelling, well, i don't remember that in donbas, so maybe it happened that way. i won't tell you, but many of those who were in the anti-terrorist operation then lovys, they say that they don't remember this in donbas. in particular, i'm talking about the constant shelling of artillery, they are really, well, very strong, and they can just pile up there for 3.4-5 hours, and in fact, you can't do anything except sit there in the trench to pray or hope that we will not suffer serious losses there. unfortunately for us, unlike our enemies, we lose our best because of the fact that people from all versions of the population joined the army there and died, very good people, my friends, comrades with whom i served there for months it is very difficult for the latter. well, probably the most difficult is the losses among their own, in second place is sitting under

constant fire, but somehow it happened that there were direct shooting battles and they were the easiest of all because they were there 3-4 times a day . how did they go according to the schedule they tried to occupy our positions and fired at us. well, we inflicted no very serious damage on him, and that is, despite the fact that we have losses and they are serious, and it is very difficult for me because of that, i can accurately state at this stage that in a week those the losses that we inflicted on them are unequal to those that we suffered, well, they defended kharkiv there and they cleared ours and advanced in the direction of kherson. okay, i block myself by saying that the general situation is great, of course. well, it is very difficult there in the places, now you are in rehabilitation, you were injured, that was too in the donetsk direction, there are also

different positions, well, conditionally speaking, zero is the front line, there is a position that you guys name among yourselves -1 is when your positions are behind the front line. i visited, i defended two such positions on one side, it was surrounded by enemies from two sides at the last position , which i was advised to be on, we were enemies from exactly three sides, i fly over your positions explosion explosion and a shot from an lng shot and it whistles very loudly at the beginning and then comes to you and they are generally designed to fight with tanks, but since they had such a surplus of all this good, they would shoot at us once without a break from aggression in the lng, taking turns for four hours, well, it was very steep, well, it was really bad, and when i was actually wounded, the situation was that that i warned there that they have direct visual

contact with us, that is, they can see us without a drone, they told me that most likely this cannot happen , and here and there, right in front of my loved one, an lng projectile exploded, i thought that i died for a second, i thought that it's like a second when you still don't know that you're dead and i'm like that well, okay, then i realized that i'm still alive and started running to the police station. i was all cut and my kneecaps. a smoke grenade was hanging on me at the development, it was pierced. by the way, my collar saved me cellar, the more armor, the more it is better to go into a tree, a projectile hit the glass with fragments of tree fragments, this collar and a balaclava, i ran to my trench, then i realized that i had to transfer an urgent operation, and we had a little trouble with communication, and i knew that the walkie-talkies were there because of the trench and i run out, i run out to that place i understand that i don't see the deration, i don't know where

it is i hear it by chance her voice is so quiet from above from above i just grab her with my left hand and lng explosions and three shrapnel fly into my left hand i never let it go, i rolled into my chance my husband gave me his first-aid kit because my first-aid kit together with my belt was left where i was from where i ran, so i quickly wrapped my hand and relayed on the radio that i was 300, that is, i was wounded, that they were piling it up. i want to evacuate, and my brother and i successfully evacuated thanks to, hmm, very coordinated actions, in fact, and the guys who were there at ground zero and our leadership and drivers, because a driver in a war is a very heroic person who drives directly under the shots and under the shots

they take people away, that's why they had such an effect on one person, then on another person, on the fourth person, on the fifth person , then in dnipro, from dnipro, he goes to kyiv to the main hospital, but now you are resting, at first because of the concussions, it was very difficult, there were problems with the language, i stuttered for about a week. then they started putting in droppers with various drugs that improve this situation. i felt better, then they prescribed a whole first- aid kit of pills, or did it get even better here with my hands? will end, i will stutter well, where is it now, of course, in addition to a full recovery, health is the most important thing, i wish you a speedy recovery, so that you feel as good as possible but are you still planning to continue or return to the service, or maybe we are waiting for you in

our ranks a well, unfortunately, one of the few problems that i see in our current army of the armed forces is hospital documentation, bureaucracy, now i have to go through a bunch of all kinds of doctors and get a bunch of different conclusions and decisions about that, i plan to return until well, for now i'm needed. i think i'll serve. and if you don't say it, everything's fine. well, since we'll go to the crimea to embroider, i won't say that we don't stop there, there's no need to bribe