and imagine that we have enrolled these leaders and counter-revolutionaries in the farms of the years, which accountants, they are disrupting the plan of the delivery of bread , organizing the theft of bread and even called these resolutions the number of people who are supposed to work, to arrest it was 300 people directly and for this on this resolution well, what should they define in this resolution, this is how this moscow government acted in those terrible conditions, and it was not for nothing that the re-stalinization of historical memory in russia began once before putin, all the accents were made differently and it was said that they were starving in the same way and this accent and the use of cold ethical weapons in ukraine they tried and are trying but we have no right to forget about this, ms. olesya, those testimonies that you

collected from people how easily these people told about what they experienced, whether they were afraid, because it was like that before, when the holodomor in ukraine was still heavily talked about, and when it was denied at the political level, as well. people who survived the holodomor, who actually they lost their families, they lost their property, they partially lost their dignity there, because it was because it destroyed the dignity of ukrainians, including saying that stalin was good, er, the fact is that er, people who talked about the holodomor for many years they were so silent about it because until the 90s the very mention of the holodomor was a danger for them or for their families, you asked the question why did

this war take place, why do we know so little the fact is that the communist totalitarian regime that existed before from the 90s to the 90s he introduced the soviet terminology into the historical school by destroying the ukrainian historical school and introducing the soviet-historical school, and the fact is that using this terminology we uh, if we continue to apply it, we will never prove the truth about the crime of the communist regime committed against ukrainians because calling ukrainian farmers ukrainian tripivniks kulaks or call the fighters for the independence of ukraine anti-soviet ele no in this way, we will never prove that the communist e-e government is a communist regime e purposefully exterminated ukrainians with genocide. today we mentioned the decree of november 18 on increasing grain supplies. the

fact is that the decision to commit genocide was made in december 1931 because on december 29, 1931, a completely secret decree was passed on increasing grain supplies and in this resolution it was said to confiscate 510 million poods of grain from ukrainian families, so that you understand, ukraine produced 550 million or 560 poods. well, maybe 600 is the maximum, that is, already in the 31st year to withdraw absolutely everything that was from the ukrainians who lived in the villages on july 6, 1932, this is six months later a new resolution on the strengthening of grain procurement, which stated that 356 million dinars were to be withdrawn from the harvest already in 1932, that is, they took

everything that was in 31 in the 32nd year, they took away what was in the 32nd year, and on august 7, the law of five ears of corn was introduced, that is, you could not pick a single grain , because you were shot for it. on august 9, the ban on trading in bread. allowed by the court the investigative bodies were allowed to conduct court cases and use executions within 15 days in november 1932. already within three days they were allowed to conduct these investigative cases and use executions already in november, troikas were created which er when in each region and these troikas three people decided they carried out repressions and used executions against ukrainians. next, on december 1, there was a ban on selling potatoes. on december 2, a decree

on black boards was drawn up by the collective farm, a ban on leaving, a ban on the import of any food of goods on the third of december, that is, every day, you imagine, every day the ban on trading in meat and animals, and on december 5, already in every region, these troikas were created, which shot ukrainians on the spot, that is, during these two years, more brutal mechanisms are used , cruel mechanisms to destroy ukrainians and 29 in december of 1933, the all- allied resettlement committee reported on the implementation of the over-implementation of the plan by 104.7%. i.e. we are talking about the fact that ukrainians were brought to the ukrainian villages and cities where they were destroyed by immigrants from from russia and belarus, this is also exactly what russia is doing now when it imports beetroot and russians into the occupied territory, and most recently, in the last years of the 19th and 22nd years, the security service of ukraine and experts

conducted eight complex judicial examinations and as part of these examinations, it was investigated that the communist the totalitarian regime in 1932-1933, with the aim of destroying the national liberation movement and preventing the restoration of the ukrainian state in ukraine and the kuban, destroyed 10 and a half million ukrainians, this is already a proven fact what we could research, calculate and prove based on the materials that are open to us today. and these people whom you interviewed, well, they admit that the soviet system did this to them. is it still because we still have when we say that the soviet union was an occupation for ukraine, the ukrainian people who live here and who suffered the consequences of this occupation say that no, those were wonderful years and we are nostalgic for them, everything was wonderful, maybe there were

wonderful years because these people had youth then, and now, now they are and tell and they say that it was destruction, there were also such facts that you say are different, but here is the evidence that you are collecting today about the crimes of the russians in 2022. and if there are older people, then they understand that this war is only because the communist regime was not condemned at the time, the criminals who organized the genocide of ukrainians were not punished, the democratic world did not attract, did not pay so much attention, did not hold an international tribunal, and the evil that was not punished gained more strength and it returned, that is why we are obliged to win this time in order for the ukrainian state to exist and for the ukrainian people to exist, and to yury, the last two minutes are literally left in us, but the significance of the famine actually lies in the fact that at the

end of in 1990, we had almost no national elite. it seems to me that this is one of the tragedies and one of the explanations for why exactly this is the case with the tailors, the kuchmas, and so on. that's why we are called the stump of a log if we were to build a national state. yes, but on the other hand, we understand what exactly the peasantry probably made up well, how in the western lands of ukraine, which were part of the austro-hungarian empire, they said a little disparagingly about ukrainians that it was a nation of half a dozen. and the same can be said about the then russian territories of ukraine. which took place in the 17th year, where the powers of the central council were actually confirmed. it was primarily a congress of peasants, and then the peasants even left their fields in order to come to kyiv and take part in the creation of their representative body of the i

actually, this is this genocide. it is obvious that he did not allow ukrainians to form a powerful national elite. one of its consequences is these documents, which lesya mentioned in part, and their significance is more uh, they talk about how successfully that regime connected this the question of bread in the sagotivla about such earthly things with such constitutional fundamental things as with things about ukrainian statehood, as the communists were forced to create a ukrainian socialist soviet republic because there was a ukrainian people's republic, they could not do that for sure that's how they understood the danger of the renaissance from these

ideas of ukrainian independence and therefore from these forms of repression from the peasantry, the holodomor was studied with the problems of the national police. on december 15, 193, a decree was adopted on grain harvesting in the western regions. about the fact that it is necessary to carry out the correct ukrainization and this was precisely the era of the era of the ukrainization of the church of this shot renaissance, as it will be called later. decrees began, there will be a mass mowing of ukrainian intellectuals, writers, creative workers. and actually, this is what you said about the elite, about ukrainian intellectuals, but this process of them began much earlier, even before the great

terror, then all this grew into the great terror in ukraine, which in other regions then of the soviet union. but in the country it was a special arsen in this country. i want to say once again that this hooligan was instrumentalized as a political weapon against ukraine against the ukrainian people. strictly speaking, this absolutely falls under the concept of genocide, which until now has not been heard to be reckoned with . and it will come to dortmund about the holodomor , they already use thank god not all of them, but they use ter-dobors almost in fact in these textbooks,

but they always put a question mark on whether it was genocide or and and i started these in polish there colleagues, how were people destroyed in a vested manner? so much good falls under this concept and is a definition, and in the end i say that i knew this very well in germany even then there were publications by karik johnson, uh, there were integrations of many decent journalists, they wrote about how ukraine suffered, uh, in comparison with other regions of the soviet union, nevertheless, it is still very difficult to break through this wall, but we must do this work, this work, and thank god that now more and more actively involved western specialists, well, the report, you know everything air intervenes everywhere, when it comes to politics

, it is about a certain conjuncture. that is why it is so difficult for this folder to get to the public of ours. i want to ask , do you know the document? of the world and they did such survey projects, are there still ukrainians in the states, how did they survive the holodomorsk, a very solid project from july before this james james with a spear and ask him so far with a word also because the idea of ​​a candle that stands a sycamore whose built museum you work ms. olesya's lecture, this is also the idea of ​​jama meysa, which was then undermined by yushchenko and eventually centralized. and actually, if this ritual was created thanks to this, when the state officials already

know the names of various companies, and her here, yanukovych, who is forced to walk here, did not want this these are all important things and these are such important steps to the establishment of this symbolic space of memory, therefore, and about these developments, some of them have already been mentioned, without a doubt, you will continue and they will continue in every renovation by historians to restore historical justice and not let the next generations forget. well, besides all that, to those kyivans who say that this is the symbol of kyiv - this is the family-mother. well, you can think, uh, in principle , that there is just this candle nearby. the memory of all those ukrainians who did not live to live, who did not give offspring, whose family did not continue, and those who died because of the famine, which was arranged by the soviet system, which was arranged by that regime

. thank you for what you do. professors are well-deserved a figure of science and technology of ukraine, an academician of the ukrainian academy of political sciences, and olesya stasiuk, head of the national association of researchers of the holodomor genocide of ukrainians, a doctor of historical sciences and an honored cultural worker of ukraine, were with us. we talked about the holodomor, about returning memory, how important it is to preserve it. history may repeat itself already on a worse , much worse scale. well, so to speak, the dessert of our five-hour work for the marathon lesya vakulyuk will be such a grimmsack for us. but this is me we will have such a square, as the poles say, yes, or 15 minutes where we talk with people's deputies. it seems to me that everything is very valuable because the verkhovna rada somehow falls out of the information

field since the beginning of the war, it seems to me that you can see it more clearly there much surkis recently than uh deputies of different spectrum in the parliament. well, and we have just the opposite. today we will have yaroslav zhivoznyak, people's deputy of ukraine, as well as yevgenia kravchuk, people's deputy of ukraine, who are from different factions and are from the right-wing the faction is not pro-government, we can hardly say now about any political position in ukraine - it is meaningless, of course, during the war p. yaroslav we already see you and p. evgeny we see mrs. genius, i am glad that you seem to have settled down with the light or something i understand correctly about me hmm, i guess you can see me in the photo, how much has he been doing, is it good that the phone is charged, that the connection is uh-uh, at least that's how we'll talk, a good photo, at least yes, that is, they are uh-uh, what are we going to start, but anyway, let's

know we touched on a historical topic here before about how to prevent everything from returning to normal and here's the news. well, i had a kind of déjà vu with the times of yanukovych, about the fact that the national olympic committee was headed by mr. gutsai, well, this is a new surname, yes, and there it is the surnames of shufrych and surkis appeared, who became members of the committee, and this is somehow strange considering the fact that we now have a full-scale invasion. well, these surnames were associated with those who did not want to let go of the russian world, sir, you know i am definitely not from this committee, but i understood specifically in the sports field, he means the committee, but they specifically looked into the issue because , well, obvious questions arose, why, well, how could it be, what was the first reason, and you know what turned out to be positive, who was not particularly interested,

and shufrich, and so turkis, they were members of the women's club as a public organization, because that's what you have an organization. shufrych turns out to have been the head of the federation for many years, if i'm not mistaken. to understand how this happens, that's why well, obviously, this is a question of some kind of broad discussion, including the functioning of public organizations, bonuses absolutely, well, if there was a community of athletes from different areas of biathlon, our colleague ivan krulko, for example, heads the biathlon federation, so eh and eh well, this happens. okay, it is accepted as a version. i just don’t understand why a minister should lead a public organization. i supported mykola, my colleague, who is already a talker. i just can’t vote or i am not a member. grandson, that’s what happens.

shufrych shoots from a bow. do you want to say a few words to discuss this situation or something? well, there are probably no professional athletes there, but there are definitely professional hangouts regarding triathlon . the pride of the whole country, a decent person is sitting next to us, well , i really can't say a single bad word about him, and i can't say enough good things about him, in which, to put it mildly, you have to look for a biography for a very long time, it's just not comparable things, eh, so we have a moment selection on the head of this olympic committee, he is generally very strange. he was there for his people to issue money, i am just a person from the donetsk region. well, yes

, his sports merits are one thing, but what happened there later is completely different. therefore, the presence of surkis and shufrych is ... it doesn't matter if they were there or not. well, these are puzzles, so i'll tell you honestly , as a non-politician, yes, but as a person, well, there are really very actively involved in the sports topic. well, this is a signal for me that we will definitely continue to have money there. well, sorry, the sports topic not only in ukraine, the whole world is such a big breeding ground for corruption , that's why i honestly don't know how it got to this point, in fact, i sincerely hoped that zhan would win, but rastak. well, when i say everything, it seems to me. well, let's go. then we'll give him time to do olympic sports and release him from the position of the minister, that is, do you remember? yes, i will also add to

this matter, it is so obvious that it cannot be combined . in 1991 or 1992, i already forgot a little about it, but it is so obvious that it is generally mature, again, i am not a profile committee, but immature, this is a general reform of how the relations between the state and public organizations function er, which actually unites the federations, yes, and at the very beginning there were attempts, even if you remember in the 19th year , when there was still a plan, borodyansky was the head of such a large super ministry, which included sports. but there were such protests. from the side of these sports federations, we don't need anything the ministry does not want to change anything, and at that time it really lacked, well , political will, to a certain extent, and agreed with the opinion of these

federations, but if you read the same posts there, it is from sakharova, who wrote about it it is obvious that there is a critical mass within it. it has not yet gathered so that it could oppose this system that has existed for many years. maybe over time it will. and we really need some kind of discussion with professional athletes. also, we can really speak here as citizens as i do as a politician but here you need to finish this topic professionally, i just remember that a couple of years ago, before the war, somewhere before the war, so when the olympics were held and beijing was like that, there was a scandal because even the coaches of athletes who even received awards did not get in, and they complained about the fact that they were not taken as coaches because there was no place in the delegation because there was a huge delegation of people who were, for example

, honest, there were some heads of the federation there and at the same time part-time, for example, deputies , multi-millionaires and so on, i asked similar things this is a question personally then p gutsatu but he said well but the international olympic committee decided our nok i then why does that mean there is an obvious conflict of interests here i don't know how many more amendments to the draft laws need to be adopted in order to not do things that are obvious what you minister, you shouldn't do it so easily, this, this, this, i'll come here. we have a problem with sports federations. well, we have a real problem, the more corrupt you are, the more you lead some sports organization. gray on saturday we had uh, these are examples of shufri or this nut who is from nestor strelok well, like, well, really, these are the main ones. we have athletes, so once again well, there are adequate associations. they are also there. well , i was there in the patriotathlon. i'll be honest, they even

offered me a position there, despite all my love for triathlon. i'm involved in politics and i don't have to deal with the association there. and we like to go there and save money, take the program and then make money on it build a stadium or something there, and the rest - this is for free to pay for the money to go somewhere to the olympic games and unfortunately this is the kind of political culture we have, then kholdnytskyi was the deputy of the football federation , then the head of the budget committee was the head, and it remains where the football federation is , we just need this divide maybe even at the legislative level, well, ban it, you want to be an athlete, pretend to be a sportsman, i want to be a politician, engage in politics, and this is an additional frill for a business card to write well, it seems to me that it already looks like a diagnosis, another position yes, he heads the committee on freedom of speech in the verkhovna rada, and this is also some kind of

oxymoron . these positions, this means that there is no better person as long as he continues to head this committee in the verkhovna rada, well, this is obviously a question. rather, to the ghosts of the verkhovna rada and to the leadership of the faction, and to the leaders of the scooters that are being formed resolution and quotas and so on, for my part, i can simply say, let's say, no bill, in fact, there is no reason for the passage, which would be harmful, because it is still in the committee , even if it is headed by a representative of well, let's give back in the 19th year, the opposition pdr got the second place among the parties. well, it's

not a secret either, and during quotas, they got some committees, they headed them, but they didn't pass any legislation until well, a lot and through us, what is the humanitarian committee and information policy took place in particular, this cover was perfectly provided by the law, which could exempt the channels from responsibility if the presenters of something live there, for example, did not stop the guests who were there, well, gubarev, for example, yes, does he carry something about putin, uh, there were such uh, his initiatives but they did not pass because there is an adequate understanding that this is harmful, but yesterday i literally had a conversation, you know, with a business busman, a ukrainian roman, vashchuk, who was also, for a long time, from 14 to 19 years, the extremely authorized ambassador of canada to ukraine, and mr. roman said that he that in the west they understand very well that there cannot be a perfectly functioning democracy in a country that is fighting

and fighting for its survival in the face of large-scale aggression by a huge second country, but there is, he said, that there is a huge black spot in this whole history to which there is a lot of attention, and it is him said that this is the withdrawal of three channels without any explanations or grounds, at least on some nominal basis for digital broadcasting, as well as the legality of the functioning of the national telethon as such. what roman vashchuk said to me. that is, this is what worries the west the most when they look at the processes taking place in ukraine and at the same time say, "well, we have shufrichnyi, he basically doesn't shine a light on anything , he doesn't do anything, but he doesn't do anything. he doesn't do anything." does not do in this situation when, for example, there is a story now er, well, even with the same request, for example, by alisa yurchenko, a journalist of our colleague, to the office of the

president, who received not just a reply, but a reply that surpasses well, cynicism, for example, there yanukovych's authorities, because they somehow did not want to do it anyway, but still responded to the essence. and the question is actually important because it is a question of nationalization of 500 or so gas stations there, as if in order to make it about ukrnaft, and people who can to be connected with yermak himself. is this an unimportant question or a gas station , for example, and does yarmak have to answer yes? but i'm ready to continue trading, tell mrs. yevgeny, we're contacting you like this, look here, you really need to understand that we've been here for 8 months and nine nine

. never in 30 years has the country actually lived under martial law because in the 14th year there was an anti-terrorist operation, it was kind of partial, and well, it was a completely different story, it is obvious that the public demand for uh, he's already there, and so on, uh, he reacts in a different way during the time the war was a flower, emotions are exposed, and to finish this topic on pz, of course, and so on. in my opinion, it should be chosen in the end, yes. some common approach , and it should relate to their representation in our international parliamentary assembly, they have a quota, they are included, yes, whatever i.e. there must be some criterion. and now, regarding the freedom of

speech, there is less than a minute left . i just want to say that such a document, so that we have the authority, we added the media law, this is what we can do, as legislation, everything else is regulated by the cabinet of ministers and the law on martial law, and so on. you may not really like it, but these are other offenses. yaroslav very briefly, your reply is possible. nestor shufrych was appointed chairman of the committee, the psg faction, the upszh faction ceased to exist, someone should be canceled, thank you, thank you for participating in our etar