and invite experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events, you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club that saturdays on espresso, i am iryna koval, mother, wife, host of the espresso tv channel. also, our soldiers at the front need a lot of things every day, and that is why part of my life today - this is helping the armed forces of ukraine and i am very grateful to my colleagues for supporting me in this, thanks to our soldiers i can at least briefly distract myself from the continuous stream of news and admire walking in nature with simba in the park, i see the seemingly beautiful in such simple things. i know that my family is behind the backs of fantastic people who protect our mother

ukraine at the cost of their own lives. it is the least i can do personally to thank our indomitable defenders, transfer funds for the needs of the army, join and everyone of you can help even a small contribution to support the army saves the lives of our soldiers and brings our victory closer glory to ukraine dear viewers of the tv channel espresso program, studio event, we will analyze the most important events that will undoubtedly affect the development of our history in the coming months, in particular , we are talking about the meeting on the island of bali, during which extremely important conclusions were made, in particular , and in beijing, we will also analyze the genocidal russian practice, in particular, we are talking about the destruction of of our critical infrastructure, our

guests will be former adviser to the united states secretary of state matthew bryce and political scientist andriy piontkovsky, who is in espresso tv channel is currently on the air in washington, the special envoy of the united states secretary of state, the former director of european and eurasian affairs in the case of the national security of the united states, matthew bryza. i congratulate you, mr. bryzer, in the studio of the espresso tv channel. powerful, because it could have extremely large consequences, in any case, we understand that the situation has escalated so much that sooner or later the heel may be involved article of the euro-atlantic charter, we do not know exactly what happened, president biden repeated the comments of polish president andriy duda, however, that it was definitely not an attack on poland, at least that's what president

duda said, and president biden said that the evidence to date indicates that it was not a russian missile but it was launched precisely in ukraine , by the way, citing my research, looking at various conversations on twitter, some come to the conclusion that this missile was in service with ukraine, not russia, they say, who knows, i listened very carefully to what he said in this regard, president zelenskyi, namely that he received a report from the ukrainian air defense, which says that it was not a ukrainian missile , and he is going to take their word for it, and this is logical , because he is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, and yet he also said that he is waiting for additional information i think that nato secretary general mr. stoltenberg is right, who said that even if this missile was ukrainian, ukraine is not to blame, instead, all the blame lies on the shoulders of russia. if ukraine launched a missile

anti-aircraft defense and it got into polish territory. that is only because russia is attacking ukraine. therefore , there is no fault of ukraine in this. i also believe that we know that it was the s-300 air defense system and we also know that russia repurposed the s-300 air defense system for ground attacks since it is running out of other high-precision land- class missiles, so i am all for allowing the possibility that it could have been russia that launched the s-300, but a deliberate hit on polish territory would be an extreme provocation given the russian objection, my my instincts tell me that in this case there could have been an accident at the same time. it is quite possible that it could have been a provocation. at that time, after all, russia fired more than 100 missiles on ukrainian territory, so the probability that the conflict will spill over into

nato territory is already felt in poland . well, i didn't want to would be a so-called bad prophet , but in any case, we understand that a similar provocation can be repeated under other circumstances, and that one or another missile can go astray and hit one or another population center in estonia, lithuania, latvia, poland no one in slovakia or the czech republic is immune from this kind of thing because the war is going on and the russians have been launching almost 100 missiles on our territory in recent days, and accordingly i would like to understand whether someone will publicly or not publicly tell putin to stop . the united states at a certain point told putin to stop . the head of the state department, bill burns, who now heads the cia, recently buvankari where he met with his russian colleague naryshkin, and according to

media reports, director benz said that they should not even and think about the use of nuclear weapons i don't know what else he specifically said but the general tone was aimed at stopping it the costs for russia will be colossal they are already extremely high and will only continue to grow so theoretically it could be a provocation from russia to to test our resolve and the next step could be attacks on any of the baltic countries or even on poland or the czech republic, but if at least one such attack happens, i think that the reaction of the united states of poland and the rest of the nato countries will be differ significantly let's be honest, no one in nato and no one in russia. i hope the people there have not gone

crazy yet. of the united nations, despite the statement of the former president and prime minister medvedev, despite the shouts that these messages from the west are a provocation to try to drag nato into a war, that sober-minded people in russia are simply ridiculous understand that article 5 will be a disaster for russia and for the whole world, so i think that today everyone collectively experienced relief that russia may not have intended to attack nato territory. but if this happens again, it will become clear that this is not just a coincidence. i remember my experience working in the white house on september 11, 2001 before our first morning meeting we saw the first plane hit one of the twin towers and we all thought it was a terrible accident we had our meeting i went out and i watched the news again and saw that already the second plane had hit the twin towers and we immediately understood that it was a deliberate

terrorist attack. it would also be the same if there was another such attack on polish territory, so on the other hand, mr. ambassador, we understand that the director of the cia borns meeting with the head of the russian foreign service the ryshkin intelligence officers probably spoke not only about the inadmissibility of the use of nuclear weapons, we understand that rather they could have been certain emissaries of diplomatic posts who could exchange so -called opinions, the exchange of opinions between representatives different states, so to speak, and we understand what they could be talking about, they could, so to speak , try to outline the so-called outline of the negotiations, so because there are more and more signals that russia is ready for certain negotiations , we understand that the key condition from our side is withdrawal of russian intervention troops from our

territory and the guarantee of our security but if we talk about the so-called negotiation contour, mr. ambassador, how do you see russia's readiness for a real withdrawal of troops and on what conditions an important question, and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff of the united states, general milley, said yesterday that with the onset of winter, tactical military operations will slow down because it will be very cold, as practice shows. he had more information, but he thought that the time was coming when putin would have to think about negotiations, but how to stop hostilities and save some cattle of his reputation, that's why every war ends through diplomatic negotiations, either

an armistice or a peace treaty or an agreement is concluded, or the war continues indefinitely. in this case, i believe that the ukrainian military, in partnership with its nato allies, defeated russia on the battlefield. now the russian troops, which we all know, have left kherson. they are on the left bank of the dnieper and this is a huge humiliation for the russian military, like their withdrawal from afghanistan, and they will not win there, they will not win in donbas, where ukraine is also they are constantly pushed back by russia lost the war period, so the question is how much russia wants to lose. i interpret the russian defense formations on the left bank of the dnieper as defending not only to protect themselves but also to protect crimea from loss as a result of the ukrainian offensive in military -wise, the situation for russia leaves much to be desired

, all that it can do is continue to destroy ukraine, causing suffering to its inhabitants and brave ukrainians, thinking that you will run away and break but this is not about you your resolve is getting stronger with each attack so there is nothing they can do putin tried to scare us with the threat of nuclear war but mr. burns went and pressured moscow to stop these threats so he has no more military options he can't win this the war he controls the russian mass media so he is ultimately able to present any outcome to his people as a winner the russian way of thinking should be taken into account russians don't think like we do they don't think about costs or benefits or about what is russia's overall strategic goal in trying to

destroy ukraine? i think they are starting from the fact that they just need to show the west that they will not be intimidated, that they will give up and even if they lose a lot of soldiers, they will still stand their ground, they emphasized that they will to fight if their interests are threatened and i think that putin will be able to bring this idea to the national level and then continue the withdrawal of his troops, but the main issue will be crimea in russia, this will be a destructive and possibly deadly political it will be a blow for putin if he agrees to return crimea to ukraine and for president zelensky. it will be a very painful political blow if after all this he simply says well, russia can leave it alone. so this issue is very important, there is one more extremely important point - it is the guarantees of ukrainian security which the formula could be

effective because our constitution states that ukraine's euro-atlantic course will not change. that is, we are ready to join nato, we even submitted an application. well, accordingly, how can such a moment be would be to implement now i am now in bucharest in romania and i was here in april 2008 when nato made a terrible decision thanks in large part to the then chancellor of germany angel and merkel not to propose an action plan for the membership of ukraine and georgia and i believe that it was one of the biggest strategic mistakes that nato has ever made , because if the euro-atlantic path of ukraine if its membership in nato was approaching through a corresponding membership action plan, i don't think that putin would have ever dared to invade georgia, and he also might not moved to ukraine in the 14th year and today we would be talking about something else, so i understand that the

constitution of ukraine states that membership in nato is your aspiration, but let's see, diplomats and political leaders can take a creative approach to finding a solution using the constructive ambiguity that was that ukraine maintains neutrality for the time being, but it maintains its desire for the future, i mean that the agreement that was considered, which was previously accepted by ukraine in march of this year, consisted in the fact that ukraine will announce its neutrality, it is not specified how long it will last, and the status of crimea and donbas will be determined or discussed in 15 years, russia will withdraw all its troops that arrived after february 24, i know that for president zelensky and for the ukrainian people, such an agreement has already lost its relevance, so about we still have to make mistakes like this, but from the point of view of guaranteeing security, in addition to short-term membership in nato, we can be even

more creative in this matter, we have a special need to strengthen the partnership with finland and sweden for example, which are now finally going to join nato, we had a very special security partnership with them, and sweden even declared a few years ago, although it had no desire to join nato at the time, but in fact they made their own equivalent of solidarity with article five in which it is said that an attack on any member of nato will be considered an attack on sweden, so ukraine can resort to such a statement and even if ukraine will not receive membership in nato in the near future, it can already start behave like a participating country dear mr. ambassadors, the meeting on the island of bali, well, in any case, it was there that the undoubtedly historic meeting of president joseph biden with the leader of china took place, everything is ringing. well, we are most interested in how it can affect russian aggression, will xi jinping

be ready now more to play with the united states, so because when they talk about a bipolar world, it does not include a third player, the russian federation, maybe now sisinpin will be ready after talking with president joseph biden work more actively in this situation first of all i think it should definitely be g19 russia in no way deserves to be a member of this group, therefore it must be excluded according to the scenario of expulsion from the g8 based on the fatigue of understanding what was discussed by all the dumpers, president biden, of course , their mutual opposition before russia's war against ukraine , it was a key point not only in xinjin-pin, but also in rendering fashion, the leader of india made it clear in recent months that they do not consider it acceptable that russia resorts to nuclear threats and in the communiqué it was really interesting to me that all parties, including russia, agreed to condemn

the war in ukraine, of course russia is trying to present it as a condemnation of ukraine, but i think that all the ding-ping and joseph biden malounov mean by this command, what exactly is the condemnation of russia for its lack of prudence for her war crimes in her illegal entry into ukraine, the mood between siedenpin and biden, again based on the statements of both sides after the meeting, did not seem to be negative, it seemed that they were seeking or already have created a new foundation for pragmatic relations despite the huge differences over taiwan that will not go anywhere, as well as big differences over trade, because the trade sanctions of the trump administration against china are still in effect in the biden administration, but opposition to the russian war in ukraine is what unites the united states and china as well as the need to fight pandemics around the world and rebuild their economies despite trade differences and finally

the fight against climate change also unite the usa and china are creating a completely different atmosphere in the relations of the usa with china than in the relations of russia with china. after all, this is the same china and there is no question of friendship, but now we can look for ways to cooperate, and one of them is to deter russia from further war crimes against ukraine e- in the current situation, we understand that there can be no peace until putin withdraws his troops, but all the same, there are increasingly frequent attempts to talk about the possibility of peace negotiations and so on. further, you have outlined the situation very correctly, but i would like to clarify whether this is somehow related to the fact that putin is running out of economic and military resources, in particular, patrushev's visit to iran testified that the russian missile program cannot be

implemented without iran, and so on and so on. in your opinion, how many resources does russia currently have to continue the active phase of the war, we understand that there are human resources, but this is a question of technology and this is a question of economic resources, it depends on how much suffering putin wants to cause to the ukrainian people, we know that russia, as you said, is running out of high-precision guided munitions and has switched to iranian not-so- precise drones. therefore, russia does not have sufficient amounts of missile weapons and there is no way to restore them due to technological and trade restrictions and sanctions introduced against russia. but it is still has a lot of money, russia still earns huge sums from the export of oil and natural gas, although it is getting smaller and smaller, russia can buy weapons from iran and north korea and unfortunately to continue to cause suffering for some time to come, this means that the international community

must act against iran. we once talked to you about american-iranian relations, or at least we mentioned them, we said that the biden administration hoped to improve relations with iran and possibly resurrect a joint comprehensive plan of action so the so-called iran nuclear agreement but this is no longer relevant and now in washington they are again focused on how to put pressure on iran first because of its harsh repression in essence against women and girls who are protesting all over the country after the death of a woman of iranian descent who was in the custody of the religious police, secondly, of course, because now iran will support russia against ukraine. so, it is time for the international community to put pressure on iran to stop supplying arms to russia. but i think that in the arsenal, there are enough of such weapons to allow russia to continue operating for a certain time, and in the end

it is necessary to provide you with what you in ukraine have been asking for all this time, namely that we help you close your skies by providing a more powerful air defense system, which is what we are doing now. i think we can get to the point where you will see fighter jets from nato countries arriving in ukraine, maybe this will require the settlement of major political disputes in the west, but definitely more advanced anti-aircraft missile systems are already arriving and ukraine needs many more such systems so that it can protect itself, well, accordingly, mr. post. and how will the situation in the united states change after the elections? yes, we understand that donald fortunately, trump was defeated, but the key issue for us lies in the three-word formula abrams f16 and of course etams missiles the victory of the republicans in the house of representatives was so insignificant that

i do not believe in the possibility of radical changes in the policy of supporting ukraine to the speaker of the house of representatives kemino mccarthy will be very difficult deal with all the divisions within the republican party in the house of representatives military support for ukraine is very popular in the united states i mean the general public and it will to continue, i think that on the map again, the republican, now the leader of the lower house of the parliament, the house of representatives, tried to politicize the us military aid to ukraine, just as donald trump did when he pressured the president in the infamous phone conversation that led to the impeachment of president trump, this tactic of mccarthy failed, trump remained without the support of the electorate, none of the main candidates for the senate or the governors that trump supported won in any us election in the last round so trump's direction has been rejected now whether

he wins in 2024 is a different matter because it has to do with his forty percent support from republican voters and so if many republicans run against him his 40% will be the most he will be the republican nominee in 2024 year, despite the fact that he is wildly unpopular and 60% of americans do not like him, as for abrams tanks, f16 planes and attack guns, i personally feel that the priority is attack guns, i think it is right because they are the subject of debate in washington due to their greater range, they are more powerful and therefore what ukraine urgently needs now, they are a purely defensive weapon in relation to the f16 fighters, so i still feel concern in washington that this will be seen as something that the u.s. playing along

with the russian narrative that in fact ukraine is not waging a war, but that nato and the usa are waging an offensive war against russia, which is a lie and false propaganda, but from a political point of view, the possibility of such a narrative creates hesitation in washington to provide f-16 fighter jets that's all someone else can do poland can decide to provide f-16 then it is possible considering everything that has happened since the last discussion of this issue between warsaw and washington maybe this time washington will say ok give 16 to ukraine and we will give you new f -16 when we can or probably it will be f-35, the discussion will remain open regarding the provision of m1 abrams, then such a step will be seen as even more provocative by those in washington who are afraid to provoke moscow personally, i believe that ukraine fought with such skill, with such brilliance and with such courage

that we really should provide your brave soldiers with more armored vehicles, be it m1 or some other systems, of course ukraine needs these systems and it is in our common interests for ukraine to win this war and finished the military phase as soon as possible you die defending yourself and also defending us and we must provide you with all possible support as at a certain point director benz did when he went to moscow we must expose putin's bluff and to say that we know that you do not plan to use nuclear weapons to tell the kremlin you know and we know that nato is not attacking you but we are going to ensure your defeat on the battlefield and if this requires m1 f16 or something like that we will provide them to ukraine but the debate in washington has not yet reached this point, thank you very much, mr. ambassador, for this extremely important and high-quality

analysis on the air of the espresso tv channel, and i want to remind our tv viewers that the ex-adviser of the secretary of state of the united states, the former director of affairs is currently working for them europe and eurasia in the national security council of the usa matthew bryza get bless america glory to ukraine glory to the heroes is now on the air of the espresso tv channel andriy piantkovsky, a political scientist who is in washington glory to ukraine andrii andriyovich i congratulate you on the air of the espresso tv channel for good day the incident with the missile that killed in poland two people , fortunately, did not become a prologue to the third world war, on the other hand, an extremely important moment that, in principle, stressed many experts from different sides of the ocean, this is a certain desynchronization in statements the previous ones from the presidential administration of the united states and the presidential administration of ukraine. well, let's hope that the investigation puts the dots over it, well, that's the most unpleasant thing

, and it's used to the maximum extent by russian propaganda. i think that the point of view on which the collective inquiry stopped these security forces that, in any case, they will defend their territory by means of available means, and they will protect their territory politically, and they will satisfy us что м-м меня огорчает что обечем то работал на морское межид. in what sense was the entire focus of the world's public attention for a few days diverted precisely to this event, while a grandiose event is changing without updating after a 15-day break in the program of the genocide of the ukrainian people the destruction of the infrastructure of ukraine, it was necessary to use these days for the maximum mobilization of the west and the entire free world

and all of our allies precisely for the condemnation of this war crime of russia what was the name of the crime after the first wave of these attacks ? look at the solution to the problem of the presentation of long-range rockets, this is a problem in ukraine that russia will be restrained by home attacks. более важное сейчас задачи чем продолжение in the spring of the details of this polish institute, on the

other hand, we understand that what the cream is trying to start now is a direct genocide already in the kremlin, even and they are not ashamed, they don't hide it anymore, they say that it must be an instrument of pressure, that is, murder peaceful civilian ukrainian citizens to their homes from the cold that this should be an instrument of pressure on the military and political leadership. you know they no longer have illusions, our company is yours well, when on the 10th, yes, on october 10, they would, uh, all of them would force ukraine to negotiate promptly, solar negotiations, the ukrainian army is approaching, they will increase theirs, they will attack the princess, the negotiation is meant to stop the offensive of the ukrainian army , and it is possible to decorate the supply of the harvest. the fifth, what will she conclude, and so on, why did they bother you? it was just last monday, because, uh, we

remember this whole week, more than a week from the fifth of november, until the 14th, this mass happens leak of fake interviews and the so-called приговорха большой с девки мавы сдела таке промромисы начолосие это звязи это салеване picked up this baton cia chief william burns who flew to turkey and after that his visits to ukraine began and he just affected as far as we understood the massive shelling in particular and in kyiv, that this week, moscow has gained two things: not success. here is the soloveny, we are now talking about, and not the arrival of the trumpists in the palace with a large majority. dvigaya traditional republicans ot uchasti