the compensation of individual pps, you understand, i understand, and this is the very feeling of zelensky, i will apologize to the neizilis , uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. - it is permissible, it is all contacts without ukraine and the usa, professionals, there

will be a computer combiner with you, so that ukraine has something in its offices.

you know, i will literally say for myself that it seems to me that after all, if we allow evaluative judgments and the interviewer that it seems to me that this is a very unfair and mercenary emotion . war or nato well , it so happened that we are not members of nato at the beginning of this war. and i will once again remind you that on the eve of the war, ukrainians believed that leonid kuchma was the best president of the time of this independence. we are now hiding after the air alarm cover let's go, just remember that the hundreds of missiles that are currently flying x-55 these are the missiles that were given in 1996, it seems in exchange for a discount on gas, what did this discount include, again, it allowed people who were in power, who had some kind of relationship with the government to earn their huge capitals, that is, we simply remember this and, well, it is

always our responsibility and no one is to blame for us, that is, in fact, such an immature and soviet-style claim to the world that we we were not all to blame part of this world and therefore we cannot claim that we are not in nato , we cannot claim that nato is protecting us now, but this is a question. and what would be the emotion of ukrainians if the majority of ukrainians believe that the world somehow did not react that way and that nato should have given russia and poland a chance to react more sharply as a nato country too to the fact that rockets flew into the territory of poland and took the lives of two polish citizens yevgeny

good day congratulations glory to ukraine glory to the heroes and this emotion has at least two components, the first component is purely ukrainian, that war makes perception black and white and we perceive the surrounding world he either for us or against us, that is, it cannot be otherwise here, it is considered, well, that is, of course, that we make a projection on the fact that poland actively supported us, well, literally from the first days of the large-scale russian invasion and that's why it's strange to us. how is it that poland supported us and supports us and in principle continues to support us, talks about the desire to support further, and here it reacts in this way, and it reacts as it is provided for in the nato charter, and this must also be understood eh-e p andriy is right that the poles are not to blame for the fact that ukraine did not become

a member of nato during this time and that our foreign policy was distinguished by its multi-vector nature not only under kuchma, but there were many different moments, let's say under the yanukovych, they generally turned back on many issues and eh - well, in principle, then and that one the non-aligned status itself was perceived more as the fact that ukraine will not become a member of the csto, rather than the fact that it stops moving in the direction of nato. well, now we already have a politically determined and constitutionally determined path, but we must not forget that there is no second component within nato one hundred percent consensus regarding the fact that all 30 nato members present at today's match were ready for an escalation with russia, this must also be

realized and it must also be talked about well then, just one more environment in your opinion or should reaction, what kind of reaction should be sufficient for this incident, if you can put it that way, with the fall of a missile in the polish pshevodov, i’m not defending, see, uh, a few weeks ago, poland introduced the patriot anti-aircraft missile in its service , the uh ceremony was wide enough, even if i i'm not mistaken , the minister of defense mariusz blaszczak took part in it and it turns out that it's not very uh well, so to speak in this sense,

we uh, at the moment the principle of opportunities in no country it is physically impossible for nato to fully defend 100% of its entire territory. that is why we have to draw appropriate conclusions from this and rely primarily on ourselves. was the communication from the president's team mature enough about what president zelenskyi said for the first time said that it was russia that started, then said that it could not be a russian missile, then president duda said that it was not a russian missile, but we understand the emotions and uh, but president zelenskyi continued to insist that it was not a ukrainian missile and now the ukrainian side asked to this investigative commission in order to understand what actually happened in this polish psevodov, or whether

ukraine should communicate in this way or how the conclusions should be determined immediately in the first seconds, i have volodymyr zelenskyi's emotional statements. to be honest worries less than the general tonality of our strategic communication as a whole we have one big serious flaw that needs to be talked about in the current ukrainian government system, it all started after 2019, there are no former ministers defenses of former presidents, former heads of the general staff, who could be used for such communication, you understand that when the adviser himself, the adviser to the head of the president's office, enters into a discussion in absentia with the secretary general of nato or with the president of the united states, well, it looks a little funny and looks infantile, there are no

secrets in this aspect, but uh, well, this is how our ukrainian realities are at the moment. why do they outrage us only at such an extreme moment, why do we not pay attention to it? previous 260 days. this is also wrong. we do not have an effective communication system during this time, for almost 9 months, it has not been built. our main mouthpieces of the government are mostly, let's say, at the tactical level. it depends, they do not bear any political responsibility for their statements, they can talk about the fact that in russia all the winged years of no reaction have already been used up. so this is a really strange

system that does not bear responsibility by the way about these systems, about these advisors, the latest story about the fact that the advisor to the head of the kherson oda was appointed by a person who headed it and was one of the leaders of the upszh faction for a long time and was even an assistant to the balance of the collaborator before the invasion. he mobilized in the uniform of the armed forces of ukraine and so on and so on, he is ok well, but anyway it is if the ground or this big ground does not matter no be-ground does not matter it only matters personal devotion is uh, far from secrets , far from uh, not the highest at the highest level. and we can say that at all existing levels of communication, it is bad, because on

the one hand, you know the paradox here, on the one hand, one cannot deny a person the right to protect motherland in the ranks of the armed forces of ukraine and here. i think we all understand that on february 24, the war came to every ukrainian village, if it did not sound banal. that is , it should ideally erase political differences, but they have not been erased, they exist until now and unfortunately, there are also internal political contradictions between those in power and those who are not in power, and there are various discussions about who is better at volunteering, and to be honest, you know some sayings , they are mine, well, i did not say what i said, they are surprising. i understand that you cannot absolutize the statement of one individual person because it is wrong but i just

have an impression and a question, and for these people , where are the enemies, which are more russians, or those inside the country, actually, and i do not have a clear answer to this, i have one last question i will briefly ask, mr. yevhen, well, i had the opportunity to talk with roman vashchuk the day before yesterday, he seems to be a business captain of ukraine and the ambassador of canada in ukraine, from 14 to 19 years old. he seems to me to be a person who understands ukrainians as best as possible. he even wrote and made such a report at the end of his tenure about the fact that the west very often poorly understands ukraine , because ukraine is a very complex country, very heterogeneous, not simple, and ukrainians themselves sometimes do not understand themselves well, so i came here to say that i just want the audience understands ukraine a little better because he is of ukrainian origin. although he was born in canada and although his name and surname sound very

ukrainian, he is still a canadian of ukrainian origin, so he understands western values ​​well i was not in our country, i did not introduce myself as a presenter on espresso and it was not for espresso. that is, this center was a conversation related to the press from a and, accordingly, he himself said that the biggest problem now that exists in ukraine what is noticeable in the west says everyone understands that during a war there cannot be a perfect democracy that functions perfectly, but i have a huge problem with the three channels turned off and a huge problem with how it functions now and on what grounds does this thing called the nationwide telethon only news function and his legitimacy. that is, that is what worries the castoffs , it is obvious. he said that it is a black spot that catches their eye and is constantly reminded of what i am talking about. we had breakfast now. it's an interesting story when we found out that

shufrych and surkis somehow ended up in the olympic committee and left at the same time. so what is he, at the same time, also a minister? but it is no longer important what is the name of this political technology in the ukrainian political community, when from the very beginning they take some absolutely toxic thing and lay it down only to divert attention from the main goal, they are called uh-he heaps a goat sell a goat, this is a very, very well-known technology, there is nothing strange about it, but ukraine is the only country in europe and, i think, the only country in the world that is called civilized, where the minister of sports is also the head of the national olympic committee , remember two years ago, two years ago, we talked about what in in his delegation, there was not enough room for coaches, even champions of people who became champions, and then in beijing there was not enough room for coaches, but the entire elite went, the entire

top of the olympic committee, he wanted more he said, well, it's the olympic committee. well, what will he do now? i don't know, but it's less, but you still have to live the next ones. i'm not drunk, but i'm talking about what else and shufrich, but the story is also somehow blown out like that, it's all terrible that shufrich the head of the parliamentary committee on freedom of speech remains in this situation, how long will it last? and it seems more interesting to me when three channels were thrown out of digital broadcasting, and the newly created channel, we ukraine, immediately entered it quickly. you know, it reminds me that if we are already talking about the marathon, these are the people who ran the distance in underpants and t-shirts for

a long time. it's some kind of fashionable pretense for the race and i just ran for myself, very simply, once and ran. evgeny , i have the feeling that in reality these are the same people, just in different shirts and, as it were, with a different sponsor, although it is possible that the sponsor is the same simply. he wrote there on his stomach, and now on his back. well, i am like that i feel like a journalist yevhen thank you for the conversation yevhen magda, executive director of the institute of world politics, joined us and continued with us about the case of hey mayb 17 about the first verdicts in this case, which were actually announced this week, vadym lukashevich with us aviation expert, the author of the book tragedy mayb 17, truth and lies a-a good afternoon, mr. vadim, we will speak in russian, e-e, hello, this is the

first verdict, he liked it, or did it raise questions for me, it was unexpected that they did not condemn of all four, because i assumed that oleg palatov would also be convicted a-a convicted, but i thought that how it turned out that all of them would have somewhat different a-a well degrees of punishment yes, but how do we see oleg kulatov despite the fact that the court personally emphasized that in the first place it is impossible to believe his testimony, they are not prodopodobnye that he was a coordinator, but nevertheless, as he said, the court did not prove that he was directly involved, as if he had a functional participation. rockets therefore from him the accusations were dismissed and in general it is true, and

accordingly the three seconds are unfavorable. that is, they also have a different degree of participation, that is, leonid kharchenko, he was directly involved in the monitoring. he gave orders, that is, kharchenko, and he carried out the orders of dubinsky, that is, about them, about both of them. - this is the destruction of a civilian plane, and the second - 298 murders of people on board. that is, kharchenko and dubinsky are the immediate partners of the perpetrator of the crime, and igor gyrkin has a very interesting status. he found out about the launch of the rocket after the launch

rockets, but he has a moderately functional performance, that is, he demanded eh or threw out the letter russia, he was responsible for all military actions during that period, moreover, he perfectly understood that all the weapons that arrive are for the destruction of air targets, in particular, before that, ukrainian military helicopters and airplanes were shot down, and he was very aware of what happened, what is happening because he furiously directed, what is called, set up the exportation of the beech, so he is not the immediacy of this accomplice, it is such a mediocre topic no less, he also received er according to the court verdict and the highest measure - this is a life sentence. andrii gukov, an aviation lawyer, is also included in our conversation. i'll add a little bit more such a column, you know the column how to say it is obvious it's incredible, it's interesting how in

russia at least some of the mass media media reacted to yesterday's uh-uh information about how uh-uh how did the process end zahnikaetsya i see that the komsomol truth has written about the fact that the gaz court recognized ukraine as the main criminal in the boeing mh17 case - it already sounds somehow completely orwellian, that is, that's it. well, that's where i don't even know how to comment on it. this is what you perceive in russia literally, or is it really not important for russia? why is it so? well, they don't understand the blatant lies. well, for now, let's add a word to mr. kastruly lukashevich, yes, well, the point is that this is the

komsomolskaya pravda what exactly do you want komsomol pravdy? this is one of the most lying newspapers in russia. the article is written about nikolaev 's apartment. it's the same nikolaev in which the calm already. my non-chief editor says at the end of december 2014, he launched a fake version that the gunman was shot down. the ukrainian traveler su-25 was piloted by captain voloshin. this is the same version in which, at the place of the plane crash, she collected blanks, moved them, and what is forbidden by all the rules, and even brought them to moscow, and on the basis of these fragments, they produced a whole series of fake versions about what it was not the plane that is

here, er, the one that disappeared in the market was the plane that had explosions on it, it was fired upon. the topic is constantly, they generally believe, and there, of course, and the title is beautiful, therefore, moreover, it is necessary to say that about the komsomol. so much is openly publicly and clearly lying, and that's all, here are these live versions of fakes. the investigation was also forced by the international busletelnaya group to review i emphasized that i repeatedly quoted the komsomol, saying clearly that this is a proven lie , so this is the article that was here. komsomolskoy pravdykh er-er russkoy propa er-er p let's give andriy the floor er-er there are some problems with the connection so er-er i should ask in particular his opinion

about the war itself the very fact of the already large-scale huge war did he not slightly overshadow the results of this in the principle of a fair decision and the ukrainian victory in the hague court. well, and also, for example, the absence of the same tsemakh . there is a little delay, so we will wait for the answer well, i see that there is a problem more than a delay , unfortunately, uh, the same question, i can

duplicate it in russian, in russian, the lack of key witnesses, for example, the same person, somehow affected ana on the process, the results, and what are the general practical results of this decision? ah ah first of all, they are not key and they did not affect the course of the trial and the trial . a large-scale

crime that was committed during the ongoing war that began in february 2014 is a very important judicial precedent that shows that no matter how complicated the investigation is, it still goes to court and, accordingly, the guilty the testimony is named and appointed, another very important moment and a special precedent for the second and subsequent and for the second ongoing court proceedings. if there were only four physical persons in the case, then russia is already the state and the answer to russia, so the first meeting was on january 26 of this year, and russia is trying to prove

what is this? this case is beyond the jurisdiction of the european court of human rights. navaniya did not control the events that took place in the summer of 2014 on the territory of ukraine and russia. and if she did not control, then she cannot be held responsible for them. the day before yesterday, gaga said quite clearly that the dpr was under the control of russia, and this is already a court verdict, respectively. and here is the main argument of russia, they are under jurisdiction, it loses its meaning, and more than that, now there is a review of the mourning of ukraine, and in the council and kao and there тоже сейчас бесплатное ответ россии, as if why and how to deal with bail should not be done, that is, it is not created, that's what gaga's court considered only 4 physical persons and the degree of guilt. but the court answered the question: what are these four there they did and there were lines and why were we

needed beech and so on ? what is the name of this conflict, the amnesia of crimea , these are all events, i don't know that this is not included, eh, how would i pre-regulate this court, they are shown as a background , and this background was documented as much as possible. - and now, the mourning of ukraine is under consideration in the european court of human protests, but it is also a very important moment, because when this trial began on march 9, 2020, it began because it has been going on since

the very beginning of the tragedy towards the summer 19th year from his own from a gigantic volume. and on the purchased data, it singled out the following four people and handed it over to the court. the investigation continued to work, and it was already said that after the end of this trial , the international criminal investigation group g will say whether there will be a subsequent trial of the other defendants, and on the topics now condemned the organizers and indirect participants since october, and will the names of the crew of the beech tree be named, that is, the one who directly pressed the button, who gave the order, who gave the crew some authorizations, then transported these letters to the territory ukraine, who made the decision to transfer it, somehow assembled the crew, that is, the entire military vertical directly from those who were there, and all the already standing command, therefore, and this is the second court if it will be, and the investigation is going on,

and accordingly with the participation of ukraine, including there e- the prosecutor of the country is rehearsing the topic, that's it, that's the verdict, that's the starting point, that's the background of the ukrainian events. what do you think about this full-scale invasion on february 24, did it speed up in the end that we heard this verdict because after all the tragedy happened in 2014 , the investigation session and when we will see those who were accused really behind bars and not where they are now girkin somewhere there again the will of some regular military personnel and continues to fight against ukraine well, in fact, at the last meetings of the gas in this matter , today's events in ukraine and the

full-scale war of russia were mentioned, and in fact it helped let's put it this way to make sure that russia really controls these organizations and has controlled them for a long time. i would also like to add to what vadim said that in addition to the fact that russia was recognized as the one that fully coordinates military operations, it controls the dnr on the other hand, the fighters in the dpr, the status of combatants was not granted and protection from ordinary criminal proceedings was not granted, this means that in the future all fighters and they will be tried as ordinary criminals and not as some military or those who have rights according to of international humanitarian law, and as for how such a sentence will be carried out, well, the prosecutor's office has already said that they have no illusions that russia will extradite these people, and russia has already stated that it will not do this, but