and let's talk about the consequences of this communism, which we are celebrating today. and today we are celebrating the anniversary of the holodomor, which occurred in 20 in 32, 303 years, which led to millions of losses. by the sky, mr. volodymyr, i can't see him, my ears say that there is, i can see yes, and they say that he has a phone, that is, we will talk from the beginning of the program until the moment when the phone goes off , and then we can't, mr. volodymyr, i'll start with a rather cynical question and maybe not everyone i will like it, i am glad to see you. thank you for agreeing , but the question is, when you hear the discussion, it worries me terribly

. respect or more tears or well, it's somehow absurd for millions to look for some for me that 2 million that 10 is the same that one person is equally terrible and a lot of what you say i absolutely agree with you know the collective point of view in any case we are talking about millions killed - these are terrible numbers about millions killed in a very short period obviously demographers and historians can argue trying to uh to skip to which figure is final or more accurate in fact it will be very difficult considering that even at the time of the commission of this crime, all possible methods were used to hide the scale of this crime. but it seems wrong to me to try to name the highest possible number, as if for this, for example, some greater emotions or more sympathy must be understood that just as

it is wrong to forget what part of those who died of hunger by calling some underestimated number , it is also wrong to exceed this number because many ukrainians defeated the famine , defeated stalin by surviving in 32-33 and simply you know, to hide them in order to show a higher number, this also seems to me to be completely wrong and immoral, so i would suggest that , you know, discussions about some specific numbers can and should be held by more specialists between demographers, but in no case should society be somehow divided in any case , the number of millions who became victims of the holodomor is a normal center of argument, bigger or smaller, this is absolutely one of the biggest crimes in human history and it is definitely genocide, regardless of what we are talking about 4 million killed, or about 7 million ? vladimir, one more question, we touched on the demographic issue. i would

legally . and so on well, mostly it is the russians, they say that the nuremberg trial was and we recognize and the whole world recognizes the crimes of this hitler and that is then ok , then we understand that we have no right to somehow criticize any actions of nuremberg and there was no holodomor trial and they say in dukha who said that it was a genocide there is no legal definition perhaps such a creation or do you think you know why it is important irku because the nazis suffered a military defeat almost immediately after that they could be brought to justice to organize an international tribunal. unfortunately, stalin died unconvicted. unfortunately, he never experienced a military defeat. accordingly, the organizers of the holodomor have not organized a trial for them. it is

absolutely correct. the trial that took place in ukraine in 2010 will end, unfortunately. it just happened during the change of power, when yanukovych came to power, so he did not speak, uh, this uh, the trial ended with the fact that the case was closed due to the fact that the murderers of the executors are actually all murderers they are dead people, it is impossible to bring them to justice, but even this process established the fact that the crime that was organized by those already dead murderers has all the signs of genocide and should be qualified as genocide, therefore, unfortunately , now it will not be possible to bring to justice the organizers of the holodomor genotype, because they are not among the living but this should be an additional motivating factor for us why should we defeat vladimir putin because winners are not judged this is exactly what steel used we should win putin in order to bring him to justice for his crimes of genocide that are currently taking place in ukraine, which are smaller in scale than the holodomor, only because we have our

own state, only because we have the armed forces of ukraine, and not because he would like to kill less ukrainians the last time question and why is russia preventing it? i could never understand the foundations of this intervention. my father is not the holodomor, and only one russian died there. so it is not a genocide of the people. and so on. it just seems to me that when such huge numbers, what we just talked about, well, tell me , well, it was, think about it, say something, it was full, it’s not genocide, it’s a mistake, as they sometimes say with economic reasons, oh, we didn’t want to kill, but it just so happened that we governed poorly. we’re here. there is something but say that a fact is a fact and we s- we have works soon about the death of these people, they reject it what do you think that there heads the fact is that soviet history the soviet union

is accepted as the highest form of the russian empire, it is obvious that the russian empire - that's what aspires to modern russia by the way, it is not only putin that the absolute majority of russians seek, therefore, the condemnation of crimes in the soviet union, the merits of the crimes of the communist regime, in particular, the holodomor, i undermine the idea that this empire deserves to appear again on the map of light, therefore, the entire ideology of modern russia, all fascism is being built on the rehabilitation of this village of the soviet union we were powerful, we were feared and we must repeat it must repeat the memory of the holodomor undermines this whole myth about the power of the soviet union in the nobility of this soviet union shows an absolutely criminal nature, and the criminal nature of such an absolutely global scale shows the proportion of this criminality to the criminality of this regime to nazism, which again makes absolutely impossible the perception of the restoration of some

of these soviet realities in modern times, therefore it is so important for them to keep silent about the truth about the holodomor then it will be so important to lie so that the holodomor will end. thank you volodymyrovych, people's deputy of ukraine, we talked about the holodomor. precisely because of these events that led to the death of many millions of people, citizens of ukraine, citizens of ukraine , but they were all our fellow citizens, regardless of whether they were ukrainians, russians, poles , jews, and so on and so on, it is obvious that they were all there rows of deaths and horrors, and we move on to questions. and why three minutes before the end of the time i planned to give to mr. volodymyr, because he is on the phone, he informed us about this, and the time

for answering questions begins. when are we in when are we for the first time i guess it’s the first time you and from whom did you learn about the holodomor in ukraine did all of your relatives survive in which regions did your ancestors live at that time why sow eh pochemu russians stubbornly deny that it was a genocide well just better than i'm better than me, answered petrovych, i 'll tell you what i found out from my wife, she was a graduate student and she used to come, she had access to very closed archives very, very, very, very closed a-a and she didn't have anything, she could... but she had a notebook and she could to write something in a notebook from documents and then at the exit to show in that archive no one could enter

this archive where there were foreign archival data foreign periodical books and so on and ukrainian nkvd books from the 30s and so on she came and i immediately i'll say and confess, i didn't believe her. she was describing cases of cannibalism. well, she just recorded it, then brought it and showed me where you are. look at her. well, i imagined the soviet government as super harsh, but not inhuman, that is, i could imagine the gulag. i could imagine the victims. i could easily imagine even millions of victims, hundreds of thousands, of course, i was still interested in history. i also studied at the history faculty, but i forced the withdrawal of food, which leads to cannibalism. where the

suicides were described, i did not believe everything, rejected it and said that no, i understand this this is what i understand this is this but it’s like this no i this i don’t understand this it can’t be there can’t be such a system well don’t forget that it was the first half of the 80s to have such a system no no not human not even an animal system what simply dooms millions of people to death the most difficult, the most terrible, despite the fact that it is children, old people, pregnant people, hmm, that is, i did not believe it, and only when she pretended to have new information from the humpbacked end of the 80s, already in the early 90s, she just flew to these parts and mays, who we knew very well, james, americans, american and an indian who received a mandate from the congress and began to study it

, and here everyone in ukraine welcomed him very modestly , calmly, very academically, such a person, the kingdom of heaven is short, all this i uh, when i found out, that 's why i am now surprised by the presence of all kinds of googles and social networks, it is impossible not to know what is happening in ukraine, and when someone tells me, well, in russia, they don't know what their government is doing , i don't believe in ukrainians. of all these 80 or 75% who support putin - don't tell me it's bad i don't want to hear i don't want to hear i was in such a state when i learned about the holodomor i didn't want to hear i covered my

ears and said no-no-no well, well, it's too much. yes , i didn't have a fifth or a sentiment from of the soviet government and, well, that's not how i imagined the anti-human capabilities of this soviet government, that's because the second world war was definitely on their minds and there was some good education there. well, we did n't go abroad, so they knew what kind of education we have. health care and so on. well, that's the story now. and now what, what? i think, yes , yes, my ancestors, my ancestors were lucky. my grandfather was sold before the famine . people who were not rich, but who had cows and oxen , were taxed insanely. a horse can two cows can one pig shorter

these were absolutely average people, but in order to encourage entry into collective farms, then these people were invested with taxes and they were forced to sell everything, including the house, and go somewhere in the modern dnipro, dnipropetrovsk region, in the dnipro region, elizavetgrad, i don't think i remember, i won't lie a- and it was and they moved from there, my grandfather was a blacksmith, this also saved him. they came to luhansk region, more precisely, in fact, to luhansk, kamiany brid kambrod, that is, if it was the luhansk region, they say that there is nothing left there because of the russian aggression, there may not be a grave of my grandfather's coffin in the cemetery, but less so, and he got a job at the factory because the blacksmith and the factory

needed these factories, and the blacksmith and the factories of the proletariat were fed according to the first category and he had enough bread and that's why my grandfather, my grandmother and five of their children, including his father, they survived, otaka, this is the story. if he had not been sold in the 30s, it was 39, 29-30 years, he would definitely have fallen under the holodomor, and so he tried to pay these taxes, which in fact had to destroy it not a tax as a tax, but what was the tax that prompted people to sell off everything and destroy this agricultural economy, and he saved himself in this way because he paid everything, everything that he did not sell, which was allowed, he loaded it on a cart

and went, that is, to the donbas, and already the father in 50th moved from donbass from luhansk region to kyiv and already had a different career here now when your light goes out communication what do you mainly do you were worried about heat for the winter what are you going to keep warm i just told you i have heaters and i have there is gas, and i pray every day for ukrainian gas workers, for ukrainian electricians, for all ukrainians who provide a normal civilized life in the 21st century, but to understand that this happened to russians who like to live in the 17th century. i have candles. there is a radio point thanks to my wife who transmits some

news in a flickering way, and we at least know what is happening in lviv, what the mayor of the garden will tell us, we are more or less informed here. and in general, we are not cut off from society, from the nature around us. from the light from the sun, well, they are small, not very efficient. we have batteries, which. so, we still don't have anything like that except heaters, because we have gas, and i pray that the gasmen keep the gas, so we can cook food, heat pour water into a water heater, put it in bed with you and keep warm in this way. if we didn’t have gas, i absolutely can’t imagine how we would live. well, how would we all live ? this is

this is power box and lesya lesya is my name she has a wife, that's why i have one, and i read books and i'm terribly angry with myself that i rarely do it, such old-fashioned old-fashioned paper books, i read sofya andruhovich and i'm terribly angry with myself. why? because, on the one hand , it's too complicated the galician language is for me. i remember myself in the tenth or ninth grade, when after the beautiful words of my beautiful teacher about the genius of ivan franko, i started to read it and did not understand anything, that's why i mean it, i'm making my way through the sinetra and it's hard for me and i already sometimes i lose the plot behind these trees of complex words.

you constantly have to imagine what the author means. but she has a rich vocabulary, and i envy her and say that every journalist should read it aloud. i previously recommended to larisa the body of an ice catcher, a very cool ukrainian language. i read it 30 years ago. well now, i would recommend sofia andruhovich, despite the fact that there are a lot of such absolutely galician words, and in general, galician has such an atmosphere, it permeates so well, you understand galician better than and this is useful for me because that i live here, now i need to understand who i live next to, that's why i do this, how do you feel about the mass appearance of the streets in ukraine or stepan

bandera today, let's say in vinnytsia. israel is not going to get away from this. should we pay attention to this? should streets be named in honor of stepan andriyovych? is his role in the history of ukraine exaggerated haha? well, it’s from today to tomorrow. of the air, i would stay here, so look. to the mass a-a appearance of the street of ukraine, the honor of stepan andriyovych bandera, i have a positive attitude because this person is connected with ukraine, among other things, whether the figure of the lion nikolai, count ego, the patronage of count nikolayevich tolstoy, i do not know maybe he wasn't here once. maybe he was in ukraine, but somehow i don't have a switch in my head between ukraine and fat. and bandera definitely has a switch, so it seems to me that ukrainians need to make up for their names first. we have a huge

the number of names, because we need to make up for our ukrainian names from the past, etc. maybe the same tolstoy, but only after that you can mention some russian names, it is desirable that they were somehow related to ukraine, that he lived here but either wrote or created music. like tchaikovsky, we will already to mention that he is a descendant of the cossacks of the cossack family and but he has the finale of the first

piano concerto there is simply ukrainian music, just immediately your ears hear it if if it is ukrainian ears can then you have to think somehow but first then the world i am not against shakespeare street i am not against replacing pushkin street with shakespeare street or dante street. by the way, there is a school named after dante alighieri near the house, no questions, please . so, and so on, and already the third stage. well, then we should sit down, academics, smart people and it's a holiday to say and there is such a thing in russia that a is connected with ukraine, the ukrainians would say yes, this is worth mentioning. i don't mind. then it became known from the media that the president of hungary

may come to kyiv. what can we expect from the visit , given the pro-russian position of the leadership? well, hungary is a classic european parliamentary republic. the president has very little authority, very very much. i would say almost imperceptible authority does the president or the president have , that's why she's not happy with the prime minister, that's why she can say pleasant words for ukrainians. when we come back, i have the impression that sometimes the last exchanges of prisoners are like these, you know, very lethargic cautious features, not even the features of dashes, such understanding also appears in russia when i mention the exchange and use by russia of nuclear, well, non-nuclear

charges, but carriers of nuclear charges that now carry non-nuclear, but ordinary charges that the whole world is already beginning to suspect, even people who are for russia and even in russia. these ukrainians will win. and as we just talked with mr. vyatrovych, everyone wants to be on the side of the winners, and this can change the emphasis , the moments that we are not for ukraine at all, the hungarians or magyars, as no one calls them, but just in case , just in case if suddenly these damned hochlys will win and we will have to call them ukrainians in their advertisements and they will win. and we have extremely bad

relations, i mean the materials, so let 's see what kind of president she is. well, let her go. relationship shorter me i don't want to hand it over, but i want to say that i have such hints in my head. well, this head is not perfect, so maybe she is wrong, will russia's missile terror continue? crimea must understand that this will not bring down the bank. to life in conditions without light, heat, water, what does this blackmail achieve, says the kremlin, behaves as any person thinks about another person as they think about themselves, an example of another person is me if i steal i will always think that that person too can steal if i'm weak i'll always be and he

's also weak and he can give up and that's when they say, well, subconsciously, they'll definitely never say about it, but it's deep there, if you read freud or psychoanalysts in general, there are different ones, then you 'll understand that i'm not 100% punched but by some percentage he is definitely right he thinks so the average russian or putin putin is this he is the personification of the average russian and he thinks if i didn't have water that heat five tenths of a computer well at least putin doesn't it is necessary well, it doesn't matter if i didn't have it here , i would have already gone crazy, i would have already raised my hands and said well, let's finish it, and they do it almost in their heads, and we are also below. don't

forget, he is such a big, handsome, strong russian . khohol he is a second-rate person, he will definitely surrender, that's why they act like this. to continue i think there will simply be fewer and fewer missiles and i hope that there will be less and less terror and that ukraine will receive some opportunities from our friends to resist this terror, but now many specialists of such academics are quoted a lot and i enrolled myself there, perhaps defiantly in 1994 year, a dissertation was written in america on the effect

of missile attacks on power structures on the end of the war, and the man was an american military man. he described north korea, some other cities and some countries where there was such an impact, and he said that it was extremely it is not effective in cases where it would lead to any drastic changes. it didn’t happen, that is, if you bomb everything and people stay, let’s not forget that now it is colder in north korea than in let’s say in lviv there are real frosts and it is really cold, and it didn’t lead to anything. well, yes er, and history shows the opposite. but putin doesn’t know history, he does n’t want to know, he doesn’t want to know, he has some kind of special history of the intelligence department. mrs. iryna declares that we have sides with belarus

, at least in november at the beginning of december. it is possible that putin will change lukashenko like this. if putin changes lukashenko, then lukashenko will change himself. it is obvious that lukashenko sees everything, they all see everything, they all understand everything. there were millions of people in minsk, and we thought that the elites were for this lukashenko, but the elites were against them, including his own son, they appealed to him let's stop this terror and he understands that there will be no second day and he should not get involved in the war, i don’t know what putin can do to break it , moreover, it was necessary to break it in february, well, in april, now, well, you’ll break it, you’ll get it in the teeth. well, you won’t do anything. at the beginning of the week, everyone was happy and

welcomed the sbu inspections of churches of the moscow patriarchate but why didn't the sbu at the very beginning of russia's attack on ukraine conduct searches in the laurels, because the moscow patriarchate openly takes a pro-russian position because of this, so i talked about it yesterday, if there is enough time i will quickly now i will explain, i spoke with specialists and i spoke with a young man with a doctor of philosophy, who specializes, he says no, it is not true that the russian patriarchate is the top of the russian patriarchate, yes, but the faithful of the russian patriarchate are now fighting against the russians, the priests of the lower temples are speaking for ukraine and on the mountain are sitting the beautiful kagibists well kagibista and so on, this is what i heard yesterday from specialists, therefore, it is definitely necessary to

individually prosecute criminal cases if there is a crime, to search for and try people who, uh, discuss the possibility of defeating ukraine and like russia really needs to do this. i hope it will be done, but then such a complex religious-political topic begins. i am a small expert. i don’t know. i need to sit down. i promise everyone to get busy. maybe we can find a way out, but it is very difficult and let’s not forget that all the toughest wars were religious . i am honest about this. i say that my part of the program is over and i am happy, and irina koval's part of the program is starting and now she is happy