spoke the russian peoples, yes, people with a great christian soul, where is christianity here, in what place, colleagues. thank you. i guess we will say goodbye on this. andriy kovalev, a religious scholar , historian and author pavlenko, a people's deputy of ukraine, was in direct contact with us, briefly but clearly discussed two important topics, and vitaly portnikov and i will immediately return to the air after a short break. pharmacy i bought yellow dolgit cream, it saves me from pain in rheumatism, relieves pain, reduces swelling and improves mobility of the su globe crimea for pain in the joints and back november 27 lviv stadium

ukraine match of the professional football league carpathians vs. polyssia lviv vs. zhytomyr battle at the top of the standings who will emerge victorious guests or hosts who will get three points 14th round of the first league of the ukrainian football championship we expect a spectacular game and spectacular goals from the teams on november 27 watch football together with the title sponsored by fc karpaty live broadcast of the match karpaty lviv polissia zhytomyr on youtube pre-match studio start at 11:30 start of the match at 12:00 you brought me an apple and how did you know people always bring me

apples let 's continue the program saturday political club anzhelika sizonka so let's talk further first let's come back to the topic of the holodomor, that's all. the topic is important and not enough, we have revealed it, mr. vitaly. only now, according to the latest statistics, 93% of ukrainians already consider the holodomor a genocide of the ukrainian people. what do you think, why did ukrainians reason before this? otherwise it's all soviet propaganda. i think that this is

to some extent an identity crisis that is ending before our eyes. i always explain this to me. it seems to me a very important thing that in ukraine, er, they have always perceived this civilizational competition as a competition between people who want something from such a classic european ukrainian states who consider themselves ukrainians and this country ukraine and are sure that its way west to europe to the civilized world and people who considered ukraine to be russia, of whom there are also millions who always voted for pro-russian parties that he is now in the kiev-pechersk lavra, these are kyivans singing songs about russia, these people are but it is important to say that these people and this group and this group never made up the majority of the population, and the majority of the population was different, therefore this group always lit candles to the holodomor, and

this other group of people cooked up that there was no holodomor, you are all lying, this is just the voice of the soviet union, and there were people who thought that they could be ukrainians, maybe the russians could be ukrainians , that is definitely determined well, we are friends with russia, well, what there, a man is nearby, we must be friends, they will respect us , and those who were in the state always told them that no one will respect you in this idea, this mentality is not even the mentality of the ukrainian ssr, it is the mentality of little russia, a mentality that is sung by many great ukrainians who came from our lands by gogol frying pan, this is the mentality of the majority of the population of ukraine . because when these nationalists, the so-called mazepynites, petlyuraites, banderaites, then supporters of

viktor yushchenko, before that, vyacheslav chornovol then there petro poroshenko said, you know, the russians will simply destroy you, but you will say that you just want to be friends with them, and they will bomb you like crazy, as one of my colleagues wrote to me a few days after the war, all god's free people turned out to be right writing that is, he is absolutely serious. i didn't even imagine what it was. to such a level, he is absolutely serious, an intelligent person, absolutely educated. he considered those people who saw reality to be crazy with a knife. the famine cannot be so that the russians, and now vladimir vladimirovich putin's huge contribution to the ukrainian nation, nationalization . this is a huge number of people.

the majority of our compatriots with you are forced to become ukrainians because there is no other way out. there is actually no way out. that is, you cannot stay . by yourself and negotiate with the russians because the russians say we will not negotiate with you. you first say that you are russian, that you do not have ukrainians, you are not a ukrainian, and then we will decide to live are you here or not? is it even possible to start a war with some other country and these people who believed in the possible existence, let's say, of the existence of the ukrainian and russian peoples, and at the same time the ukrainian people play the role of a younger brother, you know, then they simply turned out to be completely defeated in themselves we saw what they had at the beginning of the war, what they had was just a

brain explosion of many of the people who we always thought that they were just i thought that these people were just making money like that, that they were just, you know, pretending these are idiots in order to be deputies and mayors there, and it turned out that they really thought that they were idiots for a reason and now it will end and these and that is why the point of view on the holodomor is changing because you understand everyone lived in soviet clichés you understand in soviet clichés marshals победы победа бесыт this is how we won, they always said. who made the biggest contribution to the victory of the soviet people in the great patriotic war? soviet textbooks , marshal zhukov, there were other americans, amen .

the shooting of hundreds of thousands of tens of thousands of russian soldiers in 1941-42 and the squads that stood behind them and then shot those who tried to retreat, this is the price of the russian soviet victory . thousand , so many people were destroyed by the soviet artillery of the soviet union, these units were intended to destroy those who did not follow orders, such difficult situations and it has always been like that, and now we are surprised that now the russian soldiers are also here are the eyes of the kadyrovs who are also being shot, but this is absolutely normal, yes, how to put it this

way, a russian victory was always being created . and everywhere, too, these stereotypes are being destroyed, because a complete rethinking is taking place, you know how stupid it was for whom it fell and this holodomor concerns i remember that i met with one famous french historian micholadersi, it seems that he researched the holodomor back when the soviet archives were open and we did not yet have any political assessments of the artificiality of the holodomor, and i also asked him the new one, do you really think that the bolsheviks simply did not know how to govern at all, they were all the time during their rule, from the 18th year, a famine began in russia, they were constantly trying to get grain out , you know the planned economy, you carry courts here, there is no here, you close the grain here, people start dying and yes was the entire time of the famine of the volga river, the

american this hoover company that saved the russians is hated by the americans. they live thanks to herbert hoover and because tens of millions of people would have died there were large-scale famines that were not created by the bolsheviks, but were simply the result of bolshevik policies, and he told me, well, vitaly, why should you and i invent something when there is correspondence, i read it in stalin's archives by members of the politburo of the cpsu, where he clearly says that a ukrainian village is an e- is the center of this entire ukrainian national movement and that without victory over the ukrainian countryside we will not be able to solve the issue of the integral veden union, you and i simply do not understand that there in the 33rd year only the 32nd has passed, only 12 years have passed since the new occupation for them, ukraine was still an occupied territory , it became purely soviet after 1945, they

looked at it not as their own, but something could happen . was in kyiv real, so where were the borders of this famine ukraine kuban great russian poet osip mandrishtam wrote and shadows of terrible ukraine how come he did not notice the famine in other places he was a russian poet he definitely noticed he was a nerf and he saw what was happening it's just poetic it's not a historian is a poet, and then kazakhstan is just like the holodomor, we don’t know much about it, where it happened first of all in kazakh villages and in ukrainian colonies, clear ethnic boundaries, people of other nationalities usually perished when they were surrounded by all this , they didn’t let people out, there were agricultural

colonies, german jewish people went there to earn money for their own lives in order to have some land well, they were also dying of hunger, in fact, but this pigeon was not directed against them ethnically, but against their ukrainian neighbors, they became more organized against ukrainian lands by some victims of the famine. yes, mr. vitaly. we discussed the very identity of ukrainians. you started with that, and i remembered a story when my friend recently wrote to me. and whether banderivka because here we have discussions on this topic , i say that for me now these words are synonymous in principle because when the russian federation imposes that banderivka are those who are so nationalists who love ukraine, well, i am a nationalist, banderivka, is not at all very surprised by the term ukrainian nationalism, as it is such a swear word that people

who want to be called it cannot be discussed for some reason , conditionally speaking, the nationalist party could have been the ruling party of south africa or a non -political party called the kuomintang, the former main party of the republic of china, which today is one of the leading motivations. and that's not the point, the point is that they don't really understand what the concept of ukrainian national is. this is polish nationalism, which consists in the creation of a sovereign polish state, is it bad or is it zionism, what is it for the soviet proveda, i liked it, but what is the idea of ​​zionism, that the jews as a nation have the right to have their own national state, is this nationalism, or is it natural, some such phenomenon in every european nation the french wanted a french state, the germans, the germans, the italians, the italians, over time, of course, especially after the second world war, they said, you know, we are talking about a political nation, and this is a big problem, by the way, now for russians, i read russian politicians, he says that

we don't understand ukrainian people, the concept of the nation . this is the concept of citizenship and it's the truth, we say, well , he's ukrainian. hitler's we won't find out, but the russians do it in them, they still divide people by ethnicity, not by citizenship, and that's why they don't understand us, and that's why it's a huge problem for them. and why do the russians say now they had three three models of defeat defeat defeat our people who want the sovereigns of ukraine can lose mazepyn lost petlyurians lost lost bandera lost lost because ukrainian nationalists always lose and who wins and wins a good khokhly who dance hopaks eat

borscht well, friend tsum dance hopak for them and cook borscht and dumplings for them, please let them fly into your mouth, and the question arises. and what can you water then, a good question arises, they love you so much what are you destroying them? you didn't ask them in banderivka if they were from petlyurivka when you came in the 1930s with your hunger . all-ukrainian freedom association for oleg tyagnibok, maybe they voted for petro poroshenko or for yulia tymoshenko too. well, they always voted for political forces that advocated friendship with russia, which i hope we will never have again. we will assume that this government in this

the state has been taken over by vile fascists, zazis, bandera residents led by the main bandera resident zelensky, exactly the portrait of bandera residents, and she is holding the residents of mariupol hostage and they just dream of being part of russia, they agreed, but the question arises: why are you shooting rockets at their residential areas or at kharkiv in general, he says i will talk to the people of kharkiv in russian . so what is the problem? why have you already destroyed half of kharkiv in kharkiv, then what other regions are all the khersons that they met now destroying? they they just said that 93% of the population there, they said they voted for joining the russian federation. and now why are you destroying the homes of your type, compatriots who liberated the zsu? but they supposedly voted for you, well, they made a

nationalist crowd that ran to greet the nazis, but in fact, real russian people live there, you know the question in this program, what, where, when, the question, let these political goldsmiths answer me, why are you killing your so-called compatriots in kherson, why, i want to understand why you legally this is your territory in ukraine, there is only one logic, the logic of ukrainian statehood, because this statehood is the salvation of nationalism, the question is, what is necessary to survive, as it was before the second world war, the leaders of the zionist movement toured european countries and said, you know, dear ones, it is waiting for you there compatriots people of jewish origin mortal danger oh it is very important that you leave here or we are not responsible for

your safety let's build some kind of national shelter there in the land together with us israel, most of the people they met in europe made them laugh. how is this a nationalist , primitive people, and the jewish idea is broad, we are here, we are germans of the jewish faith, well , a person has every right to a broad view, a person can cry over pushkin's book in kharkiv and cry over goethe's book in berlin and you don't even understand why he was taken along with this goethe book and sent to the gas chamber for the temperature. over pushkin's book, she was not born there, not there , and not by those who wanted to see putin there, and this is

exactly the same situation. i know that many in the israeli knesset, when president zelensky spoke, were offended that he compared the current situation with the holocaust, of course the holocaust was a phenomenon purely of such an ethnically specific character, when saving oneself was in principle unimportant, but here, as if it were important, you can leave. the russian army is coming, only selectively, like in buch, well, except for the region. yes, there was an occupation, but in any case, the goal is the same. hitler had a final solution to the jewish question, here the final solution to the ukrainian question is just more people, the army is less, so let’s do it there it is cold and i think that this is absolutely concrete and i think that if the world will look at it completely calmly, then the way it is

happening now. well, i agree with valery, the reaction to the destruction of civil infrastructure has to be much stronger, because everyone will be convinced that authoritarian regimes can lead like this freely, why spend money on military equipment at all, we'd better destroy the dam power plant because we'll create floods there, we'll create epidemics there, that we have a bad army compared to their army. you don't have money for armies but we have money for rockets to shoot at maternity hospitals, that is, in fact, what we are actually seeing, if we are serious and honest, the bolshevik party was a terrorist organization. it is really a terrorist organization here and she did not hide it, the red terror is the same term, this is the term that they voiced the hereditary polibiroksb and they acted as terrorists in hostages

of the population, hostages of women and children in the military who fought for them, it is a concentration camp , now russia is actually also essentially the putin regime, it is a terrorist an organization sponsoring terrorism to vitaly, but now the question is, what does this give if you look at world examples, and there are no such precedents in the european union, they will now only develop certain legal the mechanisms of how it will work, but the united states. they have a list of terrorist countries. this is iran, north korea, and cuba and syria. so, economic sanctions are applied to them, the sale of weapons is prohibited, and so on, and what about the russian federation. what do you think, what measures as a result, the european union will introduce i think that there will be no measures because this is a declarative decision of the european parliament

. let's say desacralize the essence of the russian state, if we agree with a terrorist organization, we behave like this, a terrorist organization can in principle take control of the state. by the way, a very good example is the islamic state of afghanistan, led by the taliban , for the first time in its existence. what did the islamic state of afghanistan do? it provided its territory for training to terrorists who, as a result, staged september 11. this was state policy, and i said at the time, listen, you need to understand a simple thing if you tolerate states that give terrorists the opportunity to train, you will always have terror, because terror didn't just leave, put it in a bag , it exploded. no, this is serious training, recruiting people, and bory, this is army training, you can't do it in the forest near brussels, and it will even

go by itself they can’t anyway. and you can do it only if there is a state organization, but in russia of the soviet union there were camps in the crimea where they taught terrorists and what was the level of terror, that is, not with comparing today and when there was an attack by the united states states on iraq. everyone said that it was an immoral attack . because in reality there were no atomic weapons in the gardens of ossena. i know there were no chemical weapons, but iraq was a country that trained terrorists. they were the triad. this is the islamic state. afghanistan is libya . actions there a few years before the collapse of its regime, and it was iraq that bit itself from this, never giving up the question that the iraqi sadima hussein was attacked without such a specific legitimate reason, it is, but the fact remains the fact of world terrorism after all this is over, you see the explosions in the subway in madrid, the

explosions in london, the explosions in paris, do you remember where it went, where did all these people go ? the state will do it for you, planes just don’t explode like that happened with the malozian boeing or with this british plane , you need special services or the army that can lead to this, weapons and it is clear that smertnyk can get on a plane, but these are isolated cases and what is deadly, when suicide bombers were even destroyed, chechen radicals destroyed russian planes behind them, there were structures that were before this, state structures, they were rickers, these people could be radicals in these structures, but they relied on them at this moment, one way or another, there were special services, real, that is it is not so easy to

prepare and i must clearly say that it is not even that russia is a sponsor of terrorism, because it is actually a state captured by a terrorist organization, the federal security service of russia the federation is a terrorist organization that goes like the islamic state, like hezbola, like the taliban, there is no difference, is it possible to recognize their terrorist organization? chekists don't want to fool around, because i can't hit an fsb officer with a sledgehammer on the head, he 's only a novice, he's a noble person, he'll pour you prisoners into your tea, he'll spray your crops skills are just nobility. i would say higher than thin and a sledgehammer is sorry, this is not for such well-

educated people with an education at the institute named after yuriy volodymyr chandropa and for this, wagner is needed, then the federal security service, she works as an agent there in ukraine or great britain and the united states central to the african republic, i'm sorry, they don't work in such places, they're not serious people, they need serious money, so that i can deliver them to die, other people have them, and here they are an invention. you know an officer from this by the way, do you remember how it was in the middle ages, there were british monks or spanish aristocrats, they were fleets, there were real admirals, all of them with wigs, all of them in these beautiful trousers with such orders, but all these refined people really wanted to rob foreign ships or do not give the opportunity to the spanish fleet to trade here or to the british and how to do it if

we are all so noble we have signed it means peace monk here you promised swore on the gospel of another the monarch, the brothers kissed, the pirates hugged, well, what can you invent pirates, what can you do, pirates? and we give these pirates the title of admiral, admiral drake. how is it that this man was a bandit? he robbed ships. he killed people. peace. they killed people. passengers were killed. sides of the numbers 400 and four have passed zhenya prigozhin, a waiter from a restaurant on okruzhnaya, a hero of russia, well, this is a real pirate, uhu, well, everything begins with the recognition of piracy by a terrorist organization, and it’s just strange that russia is so firmly stuck in the middle ages because what we are telling you is just a story that you read in children's books so romantic oh

pirates went to sea romantic well, because wildness is always so romantic here is silver with one head and foot how are you sorry so suddenly it turns out that if we postpone it for 400 years and a half , such a silver appears in our life with two legs for now and hits someone with a sledgehammer, this is exactly the

same as what they did. only before the party organizations and when the communist party of the soviet union was banned, they simply stopped being afraid of anyone, you mean anyone. especially since those who are supposedly close to god in the russian federation, the russian orthodox church, also behave like devils, i don't think that they believe in god there at all. i was dumbfounded, you know me. at one time, it was also romantic to a certain extent. the church in the soviet union, as you know, was essentially persecuted , and the russian church here was no different from other churches. changed. i came to the enthronement of the patriarch of moscow, alexei ii, who was just elected . this is the first time a post-soviet patriarch was

elected, contrary to some previous procedures, when the patriarch's candidacy was negotiated by treason in matters of religion, at the pleasure of the soviet union, with some petty official of some club-footed kolupaev who said who should be the patriarch of the russian church, and this was already not the case , and now i come to this church and listen to what the priests are saying among themselves, they are attacking each other with a machine gun it's there. good people call a car, and there's such a car, and there's such money, and there's such money, and there's such money, where i'm standing, and you all know the waters, in these beautiful robes, that's the ceremony . you know, at some kind of trade union meeting, at some factory, where people are just us, the prize is here now.