in response to this, the ukrainian foreign ministry reminded lavrov of the need for an international tribunal to answer for war crimes and how to bring russia to this responsibility. here, the head of european diplomacy presented to colleagues the plan of the european commission, which supports the creation of a special tribunal that will be able to try russia specifically for the crime of aggression. the kremlin has already reacted and said that they will not consider it legitimate, well, rel continued and said that russia should also pay for the restoration of ukraine, and for this, the measure will be studied legal possibilities of using frozen russian assets ukraine insists on increased isolation of russia and on the fact that it has no place in the osce russia blocks all decisions, therefore colleagues must decide whether to play a beautiful balanced diplomacy or save the organization by throwing russia out of it, which denied and violated absolutely

all principles and among the decisions blocked by russia is the extension of the mandate of the special monitoring mission in ukraine, and you know that a consensus is needed for these decisions to be made, and it is needed for russia in accordance with the osce hesitated to exclude, however, he said that there are countries that are clinging to this channel of communication with the aggressor country. well, but he did not call them his own. thank you very much zoryana stepanenko live from poland. of the tribunal regarding the crime of aggression of russia in ukraine, this is reported on the website of the french foreign ministry. the day before, i remind you, the head of the european commission , the derlyalian foundation, proposed to create a special tribunal under the auspices of the un to investigate the action. russia in ukraine, according to fondelaien, the european union is ready to work with the international community in order to

gain support from various states , russia's ambassador and prion, vasyl nebenze, called the initiative on the tribunal an attempt to cover up the authority of the un. russia at the un headquarters in geneva clarified that the creation of the tribunal, they say, requires the behavior of the un security council by the way, the washington post, referring to anonymous officials in the eu, writes that creating a tribunal through the un security council will indeed be very difficult, possible and not maybe, maybe and impossible, i apologize for the tautology, because russia really has the right of veto there. well, what is the prospect of creating a special tribunal, which countries are really ready to participate in its creation over the creation of a tribunal for post-war criminals, not in words but in reality, now we will talk, i just note that about the perspective of the tribunal, it seems that the employees of the kremlin tv channels began to think aloud in the 10th month of the war, they admit that if russia does lose, they will all end up on the dock, listen to me

i advise you that if we manage to lose the hague , conditional or specific, even the janitor who sweeps the inside of the kremlin wall is waiting for that one more district of kyiv will be left without light or the scale of the catastrophe that will return to our country if we manage to do it . well, he will even introduce himself it’s impossible , that’s why the gagas are afraid to go to the forest. well, it just won’t happen. if that happens, what’s the matter? we’ll suddenly put the whole world in the dust, something will happen, and it’s ours. well, then you have to proceed from the fact that there will be presented to everyone, without exception, regardless of whether he is on the territory of the russian federation or outside the russian federation . simply, whoever is outside the russian federation will probably be immediately arrested, whether he is an accomplice of the putin

regime or just passed by, it does not matter. the meaning of the word and the existence of the country is the existence of every citizen of the russian federation, i just noticed that olga skabeeva used the phrase putin's regime never i have not heard this phrase from them before. well , now we will talk about the perspective of the tribunal for russia. oleksandr khara, an expert on foreign security policy of the center for defense strategies . good evening. openly call putin a criminal and the actions in ukraine war crimes, but it turns out that attracting western countries to the tribunal is not so easy because in order to create it, it is necessary to we are initially a multilateral international treaty formed by the civilized world, but specific states must sign there, and the states,

as far as i can see, are not in a hurry. maybe you don't see this story that way from your side, share ours, we should remember that this war criminal has nuclear weapons and this key argument, of course, is that beta rights are, let's say, an addendum to this main argument. and that's exactly why, hmm, in fact, governments are in no hurry to ask. subscribe even though you know today's news about france, and yesterday's news that the eu supports the creation of such a tribunal is absolutely positive. i think that after all, the rubicon has already been crossed and bucha irpin and mariupol are constant, which means war crimes when they aim at peaceful cities and try to destroy the ukrainian nation because of the cold of course, all these things played their role, that is, the political factors. it seems to me that they have already matured, for the most part, this was a bit

of a lack of acceptance of this separate tribunal due to the fact that it is more complicated and there are tools that i already have. i have on first of all, we are referring to the international criminal court. but there is definitely a problem there. ukraine is not part of it, although we have actually stated that we are considering the jurisdiction of this court, and starting from 2014, any cases related to the war are can be considered. the russian federation is not part of this rome statute , it is not going to ratify it and therefore does not recognize this jurisdiction. that is why this is the problem and that is why our western partners said, well , let's not create something new like this . they said that one of the factors of deterrence could be the nuclear threat, other countries of the world are afraid of nuclear weapons in russia. i also had to hear such a thesis from ukrainian politicians and diplomats that some european countries

are afraid to participate in the creation of a tribunal for putin, first of all, including that they are not completely sure about that. is it true that we will never have to negotiate with putin again? do you see signs of this or that? reinforced concrete is supported by those who, at one time, were against them, and if this is a big destruction . they understand that this can happen at a certain point in time when putin will have to stop this war and will have to conclude some kind of agreement with ukraine.

they talked about what it means. we help ukraine as much as it takes so that it can stop putin and talk to russia about a settlement with a more powerful position. cannot be based on international law , i.e. the return of all captured territories, and it certainly cannot be if those people who committed these serious crimes are not brought to justice, that is why the american formula is it seems to be open to such a yes, that is, diplomacy to the regulation with the russian federation, but on the other hand, it includes the incompatibility of these things, well , at least with this, with this person, with putin, you cannot agree on anything, of course, i do not accept such a catastrophic scenario if we lose this

war or let's say that there is a direct threat of using nuclear weapons and then, under the pressure of all circumstances, the leadership of ukraine makes some kind of concessions and we shake the hand of the murderer, i'm not saying this, but definitely as a theoretical hypothetical possibility this is how it should remain, that is, for at least such an analytical analysis, well, you said, you named a list of countries. these are the baltic countries, poland, which are possible, impossible, probably ready to join the creation of such a tribunal. but nevertheless, there are more influential countries in the world - this is the united states , as far as from your point of view, washington is ready to become a driver or even an advocate for the creation of a tribunal for putin and war criminals, or perhaps great britain, but just two days ago, the first lady of ukraine also spoke before the parliament of the united kingdom and called on the british government and british parliamentarians to become leaders regarding the creation of a special tribunal. who could it be

from such large, influential countries that everything will be fine with britain, and i really liked the phrase that ukraine needs not only victory, but also justice. yes, that is, in bringing to responsibility, to blame, it seems to me absolutely in the spirit of how the political culture of the british legal culture thinks , so i think that they will definitely, well, in every way they help us, in principle, that's what they do, a special legal adviser has already been appointed, who seems to me that someone can two months ago in the ukrainian pravda magazine, there was a long interview with him, he talked about how it is possible to move, and actually he proposed such a hybrid the model actually has two options, either under the auspices of some international un organization, of course, but we understand that the russian federation, as a permanent member of the security council, can make any decision, well, we definitely have the opportunity

of the general assembly, which would call on the leadership of the oun to create certain structures that would help ukraine in this matter, and the second option is a coalition of countries that would use international law, primarily the same roman statute, and would recognize its risk to the territory of the russian federation and more precisely , what the russians are doing on the territory of ukraine, and this very important point is what we want you to know . well, at first, everyone said that you see a genocide of the ukrainian people taking place and that the top leadership should be prosecuted, but genocide is very difficult. in order to prove the crime and all our international advisers actually said, let's do more on the crime of this aggression. moreover, it is very interesting that at this time the soviet union first insisted that this crime be formulated in this way, and in fact, they proposed it for the first time

but the most important thing is that this crime is contained in the legislation and there are corresponding terms for it in ukrainian, belarusian and russian . we can actually spread this to the russian federation, you mentioned that through the un security council it is unlikely that it will be possible to create a special tribunal because russia has the right of veto there, but you also mentioned that it is possible through the general assembly of the un , did i understand correctly. idea through gen of the un assembly, which means that any doubts about any un country disappear. body in this organization, and we saw from the way we voted starting in 2014 on the territorial

integrity of ukraine, then on aggression and human rights and other things, of course there is, we have a chance to get the vast majority of countries, but the question is that the decisions of the general assembly are not are binding to be implemented as the own decision of the un security council, there were separate ones, and therefore here we will say so, we add legitimacy to the process, but it is definitely not such a final decision, we are just trying within the framework of which institutions that international law, which is to find a method to find a way to bring to justice not an individual ista there or a beetroot or a chechen or i apologize to kadyrovts but the military and political leadership itself and for this we are trying to find some such formula it is a hybrid it is not it was not foreseen as such, but on the other hand, when the nazi criminals of putin's predecessors began to be judged, and of course there

was no such legislation then, and the same leaders believed that they had immunity because they performed some kind of something, not our state, the russians will also insist on that, even if there is something there with a connection, something with a connection, that's how electricity appeared, that's why we are familiar with the story, yes, but the idea is clear, thank you very oleksandr khara, an expert on foreign security policy of the center for defense strategies, was on radio svoboda, we talked about the prospect of creating a special tribunal for russian war criminals, the russian military during the retreat from the kherson region ukrainian prisoners were taken to russian colonies, the russian publication syren reported this with reference to its own sources as well as data from the

organization rus sidyashachaya bula agu net, relatives of the prisoners reported that they established three russian colonies in the krasnodar region and the volgograd region, where they took about two with half a thousand citizens of ukraine, human rights defenders also found out that ukrainian prisoners appeared in the volodymyr region. sirena published a map on which she marked 10 colonies where they probably ukrainian prisoners were taken out well, the head of the bulagu net organization, volodymyr sichkin, reported that ukrainian prisoners are treated cruelly , stun guns are used against them, and according to his data , they are isolated from russian prisoners. of ukrainian prisoners my colleague sashko shevchenko spoke with olena, she is the deputy minister of justice and says that her data on the number of deported prisoners are different and she says that these prisoners can be returned to ukraine within the framework of the exchange, listen after the de-occupation of the

ukrainian territories, the kherson region, in particular , where three prisons and one remand detention center worked, the kherson remand detention facility, we faced the fact that all these institutions are ours without the convicts and prisoners, part of the we know that the russian military took people away during the temporary occupation of these territories. that is, it was some systematic planned work, not during the escape, and well, there is a peculiarity. in fact, this is kidnapping of people, that is, there can be no legal basis for them to be held by these military formations that transported them to another territory, most likely first to the crimea, and then to the russian federation and to our temporarily occupied other territories, it is possible that some of the convicts are now also in the so-called ldr prisons with

prisoners, i.e. people who do not yet have a court verdict regarding their guilt, who were in the kherson pre-trial detention center, here was a different situation, they were simply released from the kherson pre-trial detention center during the escape of the russian troops, and well that is, when we had the opportunity after the military to go to the pre-trial detention center after certain actions there regarding the inspection for mining season and so on. the other day , uh, people started coming to the pre-trial detention center and talking about the fact that we were in prison and were released, but some simply had no place to go, some just

consciously understand that he doesn't want to uh, well, lose such normal legal relations with ukraine that's why people just honestly pretended to be some got to the checkpoints or the national police and they brought people to us, as it were, twice as many people were arrested, and we simply found out the information, the data, what elements are there. do we have any reason to keep them in captivity? this is the situation, that is, it is very different, a different approach to prisoners, they behaved in this way, that is, they simply disbanded, perhaps hmmm, there is logic here, i cannot comment because they had no legal grounds to transport people, even in the first case regarding convicts, and not in the second, what about prisoners, but here's our practice let's deal with the number of these people, since the declared two and a half thousand e-e do not find

their confirmation, that is, according to our calculations on the date when, for example, february 23, when we had all the data on those who were in these prisons, it is approximately 1,500 people and well, that's why we have um, it's not clear why they claim more, that is, or they, for example, arrested our civilian population during the occupation, it's possible , considering that they took them out. but we have no way to check these lists. we are not there yet information about who they could arrange to keep, but work is underway to find out who you were transporting, and of course we turned to, including the international red cross, regarding the first thing we demand to visit uh, this is absolutely their mandate to visit and find out under what conditions and what does the russian federation do with them? well, of course, the red cross will declare and in russia, and regarding the reasons

why they should be deported if they are people who are citizens of ukraine, who have been convicted by a ukrainian court and have to serve, well, logically, they have to serve the punishment er, on our territory, and the only thing that comes to mind is why is it possible to somehow convince and mobilize them against the ukrainian military, but how do we know the mood in our prisons, that er, even in prisons, people are very patriotic to those who were taken out these are captives, illegally exported stolen people, and not, of course, the potential for possible mobilization or a threat to ukraine, and there is one more topic that we want to

discuss. the resolution holodomor in ukraine remember respect warn the resolution says that the holodomor is a crime against humanity for which the responsible political leadership of the soviet union led by joseph stalin in ukraine welcomed the decision of the german parliamentarians but in russia, which is not surprising, they did not actually congratulate after the german parliamentarians recognized the holodomor as a genocide of the ukrainian people, the russian foreign ministry accused the german bundestag of trying to minimize the guilt of nazi germany for the crimes of world war ii war, this was the reaction, and with a request, i will remind, with a request to recognize the holodomor as genocide, the verkhovna rada of ukraine and minister of foreign affairs dmytro kuleba and president volodymyr zelenskyi previously appealed to the german authorities, and we will discuss this topic further. magda, director of the institute of world politics, joins our broadcast good evening, i see you also have problems with the light , unfortunately, i have no light in

the apartment for a day, but it will not interfere with our conversation. well, what do you think ? you know, i'll say my opinion, i wasn't lazy and got into the archives and found out that, for example, in 2019 , literally two years ago, german parliamentarians were already called to recognize the holodomor as a genocide of the ukrainian people, there was even a petition that collected more than 50,000, but then literally two years ago, the german foreign ministry said no, it is not possible, but now it has become possible, why? i think that this is a really significant victory for ukrainian diplomacy. there is no doubt that there will be none, but the political situation is developed after the large-scale russian invasion changed a lot and changed the position of germany, including from here mr. oleksiy makeyev , the ambassador of ukraine to germany but i think that a significant

credit goes to his predecessor mr. andriy melnyk, who was also, well, i would say extremely inconvenient for the german establishment, the ambassador this is also a well- known fact, however, in the german political community, and there at the moment of today, i would like to remind the ruling coalition , there is a difficult relationship between it and the christian democrats socialists, but i note that only the alternative for germany and berlin did not vote, that is, the party suspected of sympathizing with the kremlin. i would say that in this way various german politicians and their position can be a signal for many other european politicians, in particular the politicians of the so -called old europe they simply say goodbye to their fears of russia, they say goodbye to

the idea that russia is something that really deserves respect and, if you like, it is a farewell to the guilt complex before the soviet union, which in german society existed after the second world war, but now when russia is not just waging an aggressive war in ukraine, but is violating the rules and laws of war, the german bundestag reacted in this way and another important point : german politicians reacted to the mood of german voters, which in my opinion is actually the most important. well i just want to say that in 22nd year, 17 countries of the world recognized the holodomor as genocide, and after 2022, five more countries will take notice, including germany. what do you think? you said that some possible fear played a role in the first place. in front of russia, but still, what reasons were

there against, against the vote, there were more historical ones, there were some historical discussions or political ones, i think political because there is nothing wrong in that and historically wrong in honoring the memory of people and er, well, artificially organized famine is a historical fact, just like the fact that the operator of an artificially organized famine on ukrainian territory was the soviet government itself, it is actually about the crimes of the soviet government, it is not about the crimes of the russian government, that is, that russia is the successor of the soviet union. this is its conscious choice and it must bear responsibility for it even where it is bad and not only where it considers it good, such as a seat on the security council of the united nations. therefore, it is very telling. i would say symbolic for a step of the whole of europe

when the most economically and politically powerful country in europe makes such a decision plus there is one more point: germany is federal, that is, there is an internal consensus between the residents of different federal states, this is also in my opinion, it is extremely important whether did you expect any other reaction? i’m suddenly asking , maybe not from the russian foreign ministry, from russia, you know , you can’t expect a different reaction from an aggressive monkey than it will throw shit . is there room for ukrainian diplomats to move on this issue? who else among such powerful states could recognize the holodomor as genocide of the ukrainian people? but for some reason, they did not do so

. it would be nice if joseph biden recognized the holodomor as genocide, that is, there was a corresponding statement by the president of the united states, i will say cynical, such a thing exists in the world. well, so to speak, there is one generally recognized genocide , this is the holocaust of the jews. which carries ukrainians and we need to work on the fact that we talk about recognition by as many states as possible here you know the number also matters based on human values ​​that regardless of that there is a state where christianity prevails, where islam prevails or any other world religion existing today,

no one has the right to such an extremely terrible way as death by starvation, and experts say that this is one of the most terrible types of death and death agony, no one has the right to take the lives of millions of people and this is the way, and there is nothing seditious about recognizing the crime of the stalinist regime, which really existed, and russia, which is clinging to its own, realize its own formula, so to speak, in soviet pride in fact, it only emphasizes, pushes the world to pay more attention to the analysis of its current crimes and to the search for an analogy with the current crimes, and if we are now in a corresponding situation with the energy system, then there are absolutely direct analogies that the suffering of millions of ukrainians, the deprivation of their

normal state of life, normal conditions for life this is also a conscious policy of the russian authorities, completely conscious and completely purposeful . thank you very much for your comment, despite the fact that you have problems with the electricity supply. thank you for this conversation. evgeny magda, director of the institute of world politics , was on radio liberty. well, finally, i will share with you one more piece of news. the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine has just announced that, according to ukrainian intelligence, russian forces are withdrawing their troops from the village in the occupied part of the zaporizhzhia region. urban -type mykhailivka, the city of podogy and the engineering village, and in the village of burchak, residents are offered evacuation.

we will monitor the zaporizhzhia region, obviously there will be updates today or in the morning. well, freedom life will be back on the air tomorrow, this happens only once every four years. 32 national teams will meet on the fields of keter to find a new winner. watch all 64 matches of the world cup live on the megogo media service. news on the espresso tv channel in the studio, iryna koval welcomes all viewers and just now about the most important events already