this is also specific, well, sometimes there will definitely be a universal form, but thank you very much. you are welcome . and taras zagorodnyi, a political technologist, was working live right now. well, in just a few moments, you will have the opportunity to watch the interview of espresso correspondent vitaly bakumenka with the legendary azov resident vladislav dudchak. the associate professor himself, where he will tell about the captivity and the war that changed ukrainians forever. vladyslav duchak, call sign associate professor, professional historian, candidate of philosophical sciences, cooperated with the national corps, since 2017 he has been lecturing on the military history of ukraine and the world for the personnel of azov since 2021, after signing a military contract, vladyslav was already lecturing with the title of junior lieutenant, after february 24, 2022, he

was among the defenders of azov steel in mariupol, in may, together with other azov, he got into the russian the prisoner communicated with dubchak several times, the kremlin propagandists from the docent tried to mold the image of the main ideologist azov and the nazi, but vladyslav answered clearly and accurately, so the provocation failed september 21, 2022 released among the other two hundred soldiers , awarded the order of courage of the third degree, you understood that the war with russia was inevitable, of course , i understood the only thing i thought about. i thought that the war would not be so large-scale after all, and in my forecasts , the war should have started as follows, russia will inflict missile strikes on our military facilities and bombing will take place there will cover

the black sea of ​​azov with its fleet and under the guise of possibly several corps of its army. yes, it is leading them under the flag of these so-called quasi-republics dpr and lpr in order to displace our troops from the donetsk and luhansk regions and predict that there will be such a massive ground operation by the forces of the regular russian army . i have such an opinion about the russian federation, and it hasn't left me since 2003, from the events on the island of tuzla. that's really what i thought would happen. and this is a continuation of those who were there hundreds of years ago, this is a continuation of our history of ukraine. is this i don't know something new that putin invented

this is a difficult question because, in principle, the whole history must be considered in such a dialectical connection. and indeed, our war is what is going on now. it is a war of liberation, one of the wars of liberation . a period or an exclamation mark on the big account ah really for sure for sure putin's russia did not imagine any other solution to this issue and it is not caused by us, we are not to blame for this that the war started, but simply it is obvious that putin's russia to the kremlin 's regime is now a dictatorial regime. yes, ukraine is simply unprofitable, which will be a showcase of the western world, attractive even to its citizens. therefore, something had to be done quickly

and decisively . because well, i think that they themselves were misinformed by the agent network that is scattered and now functions in ukraine, and by the fact that ukraine is weak, that the army will not pull out a direct confrontation from the second armies of the world, but it didn't happen as expected, as we can see, and that's why, even talking to fsb officers or the same russian journalists, i always asked them, using the opportunity , what and what did you achieve ? you had a column in our society very firmly, which took root, a fifth column, which was powerfully represented in the parliament, there were politicians, let's say so, who were allowed to appear on television, who

had powerful platforms for expressing their thoughts about the russian language, now you have lost it all and what what have you achieved, you have only achieved the fact that the ukrainian society, which was stretched by these different political forces that pulled and looked in different vectors, and now it has all been synthesized, weeded out those elements that were foreign and are such a powerful force that opposes the russian-russian peace and now ukrainians, ukrainians can conditionally say that they want everything a-a and eh-e mination of the free is difficult for us to ban something because it will immediately cause opposition but we want everything but except for the russian peace they in general, they understand what a russian poem is, as they see it, but in their country, it is some crazy mix

, so crazy. valuyev's circular roman decree, these fables about the austrian general staff who invented the ukrainian language wrote songs there and so on, you think so well, it 's still crazy, in fact, it's so marginal, an adequate person will never be like this well, it will not be like this believe or sell the meaning of such fables about the austrian general staff, no, people really believe in it, and the people are outwardly adequate. well, from that side, i mean them too. how come hrushevsky is an austrian spy, you didn’t know me, they ask me, i say, no, i didn’t know and here he was, he was like that a and you look like that and think hmm okay i am not in the right

position to enter into such a discussion with you but i say it so carefully well, you know , there was no soft information and the language a-a our heroes are all causes furious opposition, that's why it's a mix of such things imperial myths of the great powers a-a some red such a scumbag their grandfathers fought there this cult, i also call it the cult of solid necrophilia when they worship a very bright uh-uh hmm from the point of view of emotional content but correct from the point of view of facts, this is their symbol this grandmother, this grandmother who went out there with the flag and so on, and this is precisely the symbol of their propaganda and their idea, it is completely rotten and untrue because if we remember this grandmother with whom this character is depicted, she is

got confused as she said at the time who they were , russians or ukrainians, and then tried to get them to sympathize so that they wouldn't bomb or shell, well, you can find an interview of this grandmother, this old woman, this a, on the internet, but they it was raised on the shield and all this is already a myth, here they are, this is exactly what this ideology is, it is dead , in fact, it is dead. and the fact that it is stillborn will not live in reality, but they raise it to the flag and carry it, and they have no other. they have no prospects that they can ah to offer a conversation about what was happening with the officers. yes, if it was not an interrogation, but simply a conversation on worldview topics, and such were, what can you offer, what can you offer, well, you and i are already adults people are quite like that even from the soviet

union, we have something in common in the past, school, pioneers, heroes, yes, we can look at it differently, this is obviously propaganda, yes, grandfathers fought and so on, and for those boys and girls who were born after 92 they no longer have a common history they have their own vision of the future and they cannot be lured by the past, they look to the future, so in the future, russia can offer nothing to ukraine, they only appeal to emotions, e.e. nurturing the enemy . some kind of irrational fear of the west when they say that every 100 years, the whole of europe gathers, goes to war against russia, gets peace and calms down , and they raise themselves so high in their eyes, uh, i was

completely serious, i asked the guys, uh, you said do you seriously think that the west is an enemy of russia, they answer like this, i say so, i do not agree with you, at least there was one case in history when the west radically changed the vector of the development of the russian state, peter i, and it was he who cut the window to europe, although he opened it, feofan prokopovich actually opened the door for him and in general, why was there to cut out the window to europe if ukraine opened the door in 1654? yes, but i don’t understand the number of russia, i say, and he changed uh, he changed this very peter, and as the first westerner, he changed the vector the development of the russian state of the empire and actually laid the foundations for this empire, which we are now

observing, well, the russians are destroying these ties with the western world and western civilization, and in fact, what they are proposing to petrovska is ossified with these fair jesters with public executions. well, let's remember the wagnerites, who were executed recently, a person and nobody is responsible for it, that you are smoothly sliding into the middle ages and this is presented as a great civilizational achievement of theirs, like the russian world, i do not i can believe that they seriously want this, well , that is, it can be. maybe they are somehow different, they explained to you exactly how they see their russian standard. there is also what they raise on their shield, what they seem to be against. well, they are completely false

, in fact, well, they appeal very much there, and we know this designer. they are against lgbt there , they are promoting there, but let's look at their variety show, well, they are present, they are present, you can google a bunch of clubs in moscow, yes, and even among their politicians and even among their talking heads on television, among them there are many representatives of this community , what are they opposing, well, it is obviously not clear if the russians calm down and will live their lives and will not cling to their neighbors, then they will switch to building a normal society, they have such colossal natural resources, they have a large demographic resource, and they have so much ah, how many areas are there for internal colonization and not for external expansion, which they are not capable of? well

, they can’t offer anything, in fact, it’s quite possible that they can turn into a world leader country one day, but for this you need to rebuild your consciousness. you yourself told them this so that they do not respond to any form, of course i understand, well, how do they perceive your arguments? well, for example, regarding the tricolor of the red flag, the fsb officers said that this is our weakness, here he briefly answered that this is our weakness, but even the very officers who communicated with me from different structures , and they positioned themselves, relatively speaking, as white guards or red army soldiers, that is, there is no unity in their society, and when they threw such ridiculous arguments that we are fighting nazism there and so on well, you look at them and well, you see that he doesn't believe it himself, but it 's work, work is like that and then you say that,

you don't like the tattoos on some soldiers, you say that they are right-wing radicals and nazis and you consult with people who are familiar with these tattoos. take those guys of yours who are fighting there in the battalion of rusich milchakov. take him and he will tell you what kind of tattoo he has and why. milchakov is good, because your television shows this, and a conditional fighter from dobrobat in what kind of tattoos are there exactly like that? he is bad. what did this officer answer to me? and milchakov repented. do you understand that? klitschko and he smiled at the same time. in fact, and er, hmm, a really small part of them. they realize that this is absolutely the wrong path,

but these people keep their opinions to themselves and do not shine for one reason or another. well, because it is obvious that they can fall into the banal handout and draw some kuratov also, is it obvious that signals have already been sent to them by the wagnerites, so with this sledgehammer, so they showed what will happen to those people who will not publicly share these views. for us, this is a war, it is understandable for us, it is patriotic because for a russian, it is a name patriotic. she understood that we are fighting for our independence, for our identity, because if we lose this war, we will disappear. ukraine will not become a state, a nation, it will not become a people. you russians - this is just

another imperialist war. the second is unfair . what kind of victory do you think it should be? what do you think is the first condition of our victory, but not the last? and this is, hmm , the restoration of the territorial integrity of ukraine and reparations from the russian federation, and in in the future, we will have to prepare for the fact that we need to rebuild such a modern ukrainian state that will become the leader of eastern eastern europe eastern europe and a showcase of the achievements of western civilization, while not losing its ukrainian identity, this is a very important nuance because protecting its statehood our independence and then lose it and the signs of our identity in favor of the western world, the newest civilization, so european well,

what are we fighting for then, and therefore we must become a showcase of civilization a-a such a european world before the east a-a and actually build such a state to which the ukrainians who are now scattered all over the world would look like this is what this victory will look like, this will be an act of capitulation, this will be a change of power, then this will be some kind of temporary administration in russia, yes, is it a division into autonomous regions? yes, how this russia will look like after our victory is difficult to predict. hm. the only thing is that you need to be very careful in your predictions, because after all, we have dealing with the state although the state in many moments is a simulator like that yes, but with nuclear weapons, they have nuclear weapons, that's why the final

collapse of the russian empire has obvious advantages for its neighbors, but it also carries dangers that who knows in the hands of this, this, this stick of nuclear weapons will end up in the most critical, uh, moments of this semi-disintegration, and that's why, uh, i would of course, uh, of course for ukraine, the best option would be the weakening of russia, but not its complete disintegration, although different options should be ruled out well, it's impossible which i will be events develop, for example, we imagine this day, uh, putin signs the act of surrender, says you have won, we are weakened, and after eight years, they are gaining

strength and attacking us again. it is the main reason for this war. it is not the reasons that putin voiced in his time. this is not nazismization. demilitarization is all delusional. the main reason is impunity. look at the country. gopnik, let's call a spade a spade. it has been dictating for a long time. conditions for neighbors, how to live moldova, georgia annexed , belarus occupied, ukrainian crimea and donbass, the western flower of the world he is just watching this, well, let's be realistic, the sanctions that were implemented are not really about anything and this encourages the aggressor country to further aggressive actions and so on in the end, the country of gopnyk gets in the teeth

from its neighbor in an open fight, they get in the neck and we are already watching, we are watching that the second army of the world descends to the level of that hooligan who is open to fighting got in the teeth and he shits then under the neighbor's door because the destruction of our civil infrastructure, what is it like? not threads and meanness , actually on the battlefield. they can't do anything else in the maternity hospitals. that is, impunity is the main reason for this war if we build a strong ukraine, a strong state with a powerful army and

air defense forces, first of all, and this will be a guarantee the fact that russia will not attack us, it will be strong , we will be weak, there will be a strong vertical of power there, there will be a democratically elected president, real, but having such an unpredictable neighbor, so crazy, well, really, yes, we must have such a very powerful line of defense a-a and to always have the shoulder of a neighbor who will support these neighbors. we have er, i say first of all that we need to build some kind of protection system among those countries that are in the risk zone, these are the baltic countries, this is poland, this is ukraine, this is belarus without lukashenka. what are we returning to, we are returning to the model that the right conservative forces in ukraine have been talking about for so long, intermarium, we will

have an intermarium of the union of these states that border this wild field, not predictable russia. and we will have a guarantee of protection and we will not be like this strongly depend on the west, because the west is already changeable, in fact, today some forces there won the elections, tomorrow others, and what kind of relations they will establish with russia, it is unknown, it is difficult to predict, look, some political will come an activist there, relatively speaking, in the states, and he will tie his bags with the democratically elected president of russia, not putin, and that's it, and we will be left without an ally, mmm well, we have to rely on ourselves very much. how do you see the military-political union which will be very useful for us , and with the help of great britain, of course, and

from the new countries that are now aspiring to join nato , finland is there, and these countries are also because you know, when i talked with one opponent there before things there to our countryman from dnipropetrovsk but he is already an mgb investigator. as far as i understand, the dnr is working, and he said a very similar speech, one hundred phrases, which just personifies the imperialist thinking of the russians. he said that we cannot give up on ukraine, because it is our table family silver. and i said, dear, i say, m poland e this is not your family silver but in finland - this is not your family silver of the baltic countries - this is not your family silver, what did he tell me? well, she is like that and the obvious conclusion. and if we were in nato,

then there would be no complaints against us none complaints if we are not accepted into nato but we must be ready for this, we also do not need to stand at the door and beg to be accepted into nato we must build some kind of defense system, nazis, fascists, what else do they call us from bandera yes, they are not nazis at all, i do n’t understand at all, well, honestly, i read it, i didn’t understand what it is , who are they, and they themselves understand how they are, well, it is absolutely not entertainment. you may have explained to them a very interesting moment. so when they are all imprisoned certain surnames no longer know anything even people who more or less, they are dedicated to the humanitarian, such a humanitarian field, they are from bandera, and i come in . and i’m from

bandera . to the hero , in fact, and bandera is now a certain marker there, our father bandera is ukrainian-mother and we will go to fight for ukraine, but i am a historian and a nationalist with experience because i have been in the organization of ukrainian nationalists since 1995, and i it is obvious to me that i have drawn a conclusion for my hero konovalets evgeny konovalets - this is my hero, and shukhevich - this is my hero, who has proved it all with his actions, his ideas, his convictions, and i will tell you why this officer says oh, how is this может быть well, от от от

почушите почему вы есе почемуе, uh, hero for you, bandera is not a hero for you personally, i say without problems. i wrote a few points there, and konovalets is a hero for me there, and there is no argumentation, because they are so a who is konovalets and stop stop this well, you have to google it, you have to look for it, and when the expert there alone came to the discussion, they brought with them lyosha, an expert militiaman, and he got such a chevron with mykolaiv of tsybor, an ideologist of ukrainian nationalism and uh, the person who painted the okration and the constitution of the first a i wrote because pylypa orlyka is not a constitution, it’s just a contract, yes, er, this is another myth. by the way, our ukrainian, which we play, and it shows siborsky . who is this, i say, cyborsky?

portrait of siborsky i say it is the siborsky nk it is an officer of the austrian general staff i say yes no i say it is an officer of the russian imperial army he fought in the first world war he was awarded and i say wounded against the austrian germans no well i say google it if this condition is not fulfilled we are not oppressed by other countries where they live ukrainians immediately disappear, this is the negative perception of these nations , that's why nationalism is equal to nazism, you can never do nationalists, there have always been nazis, because nationalism is love and nazism is hatred about the attitude of ukrainians, how much have we changed, well, to put it simply , she bandera about the upa about well, we know what happened 10 years ago and how ukraine has changed in the last six months, how ukraine

has changed, it has changed a lot and what i even told the investigators there well, when there was an opportunity, let's say, discussions, yes, within the limits of which there were no threats there with remarks, let's say, physical ones, then no, to me, to the other guys, and then i said that look, you have achieved the opposite result, in fact, it is absolutely the ideology of the right our biology of nationalism and as much as i would like it, at the time at the beginning of the full- scale invasion, it was in the political understanding somewhere on the fringes. so we knew our history, well, at least a large part of society already knew our heroes there and so on like that, but the vast majority of ukrainians were inert, not interested

in politics, and they were anyway, and now the vast majority of the people position themselves as ukrainian nationalists, by the way, about the language, they seriously believe that russia is pressing here in russian, of course, and you give them concrete examples, well, how do you imagine that we are persecuting russian-speaking people, the azov regiment, ah, this is such a horror for russians , but already a good half of our soldiers speak russian, they communicate in russian, ah and how do you imagine that we are persecuting them and they are not persecuting you, but they believe in this, they believe in that and when they face reality with reality, the worse for reality

joins the community with the ukrainian view of the world become a sponsor of the youtube channel espresso and this is access to exclusive content personal thanks pinned comments special icons there the possibility of personal communication with the espresso team click sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian perspective i congratulate you this is freedom life my name is vlad and lazur we start from the zaporizhzhia region russian army is unable to defend its key positions in this region, this is stated in the current review of the american institute for the study of war, according to

experts on the movement of russian forces in zaporizhzhia testify that the occupiers