do you want to take such a step, yes, it is actually to move to the position of political orthodoxy, now they have a difficult situation, ah, i understand. they still have time, and the time is indicated precisely in this decision of the national security council - it is two months when they will form e-e on behalf of the national security council to the cabinet of ministers of draft laws, in which they must prescribe all the special features of limiting their activities, and then it must be accepted by the verkhovna rada, and then they will understand that they will file a lawsuit in court that this is illegal. that is, we will still see such a long process with you, and this it really is for them such a space of time that they can use as they like, for example, they can understand that this is final, then go to a dialogue

with both the ukrainian state and the orthodox church of ukraine, the ecumenical patriarchate, completely sever their ties with moscow, including the canonical ones and in order to become part of the canonical space, they must engage in dialogue and unite there with the orthodox church of ukraine, but it can take a different line and say that they are a church that is experiencing persecution, a martyr church, and this means that it is in accordance with the christian tradition , if christ spoke to you, if they remember you, they will know you by my name, and they will say that they are chasing christ and on this basis manipulate people's fame and lead people out, then such a danger is unconditional but it is not very big, i would say so because it is the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate itself, it is heterogeneous, there are also about the number of priests and about the

ukrainian believers who are just now thinking about what to do next, there are those who yes, there are those who are oriented on russia, yes, in different ways, the last question has already been said about it several times. volodymyr zelenskyi also announced that personal sanctions will be introduced against certain representatives of the uoc mp, and already today the ukrainian media, citing its sources, reported that sanctions have allegedly already been introduced against former people's deputy and ardent supporter of this church vadym novinsky and also against the governor of the lavra e pavel e please tell me, maybe you can still name or suspect some names of people against whom else may personal sanctions be imposed well, who may have a very large influence in the church and his connections with moscow are being traced well, i think that this applies to some hierarchs of the church well, for example, the same zaporizhia yes, what is not the

metropolitan who constantly a- but there have been various scandals and in s- under such an anti-ukrainian position now he behaves where is tykh in essence but he has a certain such uh-uh past uh-past history well it is clear and such well in the same odesa for example that is uh-uh now it will be according to every theory certain investigations have been conducted there and have already been included in this sensational list. thank you for your comment. ihor kozlovsky, a religious scholar with a candidate of historical

sciences , was on radio liberty. in ukraine my colleagues from the project przystvo vremya asked for a comment from the uoc mp, listen to me, it is difficult to explain the actions of law enforcement agencies. obviously, they have some motivation, in fact, this is not the first time they have come to us come from the inspection of my similar non-services because it was also in the 18th year, when under president poroshenko, there were repeated searches on some absolutely groundless accusations of treason and similar things, but all this did not lead to anything , because it was completely unproven. i understand that without a release, which are published today by the power structures. according to the consequences of their actions in the premises of the ukrainian orthodox church, they also indicate that the ukrainian orthodox church did not do anything that could have been done qualify as state security from state danger and are sure that if everything will happen according to the law, then we have nothing to

worry about. because our church operates exclusively within the limits of ukrainian legislation and the law of god , why in ukraine they decided to ban the activities of the uoc mp today was explained in the center of strategic of communications, they really claim that russian propaganda is spread in the temples of the ukrainian orthodox church of the russian orthodox church, that the temples cover the activities of enemy special services, and that russian agents are recruited in the temples. pointed out that the uoc mp must prove that it has no church-canonical connection with the moscow patriarchate viktor yagun major general of the reserve of the armed forces of ukraine joins our broadcast and the security service of ukraine joins our broadcast good evening mr. yagun what do you think why now the uoc mp became interesting for the security service of ukraine, and by the way, it is now in october, the 10th month of the war, and not, for example, in february, when the

full-scale russian invasion began, this question rhetorically should be seen who was in the head of february is there, who was in charge of that, all the moments are connected, and we need to see what is actually happening now, no one's interest in this structure has faded, information has always been accumulated, it was not, i always said it, this is such a curse of the structure, what is called political will if there was political will, it could be closed, i don’t know when yet, at the beginning of 1992, it was possible to build one church in ukraine and it would not cause such a danger for us in the 30th year, in this year, in the 30th year, some year there already in the 32nd year of independence, you say that this is a rhetorical question, why now and not earlier, well, i

would just like to add that the heads of the security service have not changed before, there was ivan bakanov, now vasyl malyuk is acting by the way, hmm, today the bbc ukrainian service wrote about the fact that it is obvious that this is the initiative of vasyl the kid, so hmm, take a closer look at the uoc mp in ukraine, and earlier i think ivan bakanov even publicly spoke about the fact that he is a parishioner of this church. and before to me more than once yes, i would not put uh, this is what is happening now with this church of a pseudo -religious organization, if yes, i called it more the merit of one person because society already society has simply already pressed the leadership of the state and special services and about security agencies because if well, you look at what is happening, it can't

be simple. well, we have seen many, many examples when priests openly ignored this war, this active phase of the war, refused to eulogize the soldiers of the armed forces of ukraine openly in the eyes said that they uh-uh want to be together there and um and everyone knew about these literary preferences as i would call it, everyone could go to the lavra and see what was sold in their church shops and everyone knew about the presence of some you you try enter from ukraine, well, earlier you would have tried to enter with the ukrainian flag. yes, uh, in the lavra or some temple there, they would have simply torn you apart and said that the whole church has no politics or something like that, but mainly it was our ukrainian flag that annoyed them and so more well, there are many of them

moments that have always surprised you, you know, one of the journalists, uh, now, already during this period, went to a temple in transcarpathia and found only one book uh in the store in ukrainian, where it was told about the schismatics of the kyiv patriarchate. it was reported to the pastor from the gramophone of these churches, that's why it was reported for years, the literature that was sold there for years, and probably all these manuals and literature that the security service of ukraine is now finding in temples and churches, probably it was there before, but why previously, the security service of ukraine was not interested. well , the composition of the security service of ukraine has changed so much that now there are people who objectively look at the activities of this church, and until october there was no information about that church. heard that the information was collected , accumulated and reported to the leadership, and it

stopped at the level of the service leadership and did not even go to the state leadership. i want to say that in the 18th year, the head of our state awarded four metropolitans. by the way, one of them is currently under the investigation awarded state awards for what was probably for the fact that they were normally loyal to the head of the state at that time. despite all those tomos and so on. and so on. that is, the decision was political. but when you see them as collaborators in the active phase of the war, when collaborators among churchmen accept the aggressor, accept the occupiers in their churches, when they actively help them identify our fighters, the atoshniks, and so on, when they are present

in the kremlin during the signing of documents on annexation well, it simply does not fit into any framework and you have to make the decision that is being made now . i knew about it, i know about it, i spoke about it and repeatedly emphasized this, and i said that until we destroy this residency of the russian special services on the territory of ukraine, we will not have spiritual independence, i emphasized this all the time of my service in the service and the last years, and i have never changed my opinion, and i am not going to change it again. and please tell me. and what is the guarantee that it is not my time and this is all somehow, um, calm down, everything will not return to its circles and the church will continue to exist, that is, is this already the case? do you see that the

political will actually exists ? is this still under question? if you don't solve the issue radically now, well, we will radically according to the law so say adopt a law eh in accordance with this legislation liquidate this structure allow certain categories of these persons to move to determine themselves or leave the territory of ukraine or join the ukrainian church and eh and in such a plan close this topic once and not always if this does not happen if not there will be a return of the shrines to the ukrainian people. if those who are not brought to justice will be brought to justice. this is what will happen. documentary documentation

of their illegal activities will take place, and if all this is not put in place, people will simply start to mention such a word as lynching as lynching and so on. and so on. i think that the authorities definitely do not need it now. i just want to add to what you said that before there was no political will and now there is , here we are, literally, for weeks three years ago, they recorded an interview with the minister of culture, oleksandr tkachenko, and asked him what to do with the uoc-mp, and even very recently, he talked about the need to agree to seek a dialogue, and there was not even a hint that the state would decide to radically tackle this issue and check what is happening there in fact, in order to get a legal degree, you had a report where this man who had a cross on his neck, it is difficult for me to call him a priest because i know if he is engaged in reality, uh, god is his judge . this man said that we are so clean, beautiful, with

everything is very simply documented contact, if there is contact with the land of joy after may 27, there is confirmation that they are in contact, that they are driving , that they receive instructions and implement these instructions through the church, convey messages to the population and are actually under russian orthodoxy is called full control, etc. thank you very much for your comment viktor yagun , major general of the reserve of the armed forces and security service of ukraine again i apologize, thank you very much after the annexation of the territory of donbas, the locals who were waiting for russia realized that life has become even worse. at the same time, those who are waiting for the liberation of donbas from ukraine the army is now in constant danger about what outcome of the war awaits ukrainian citizens who have been under russian occupation in donbas for 9 years. my colleague sashko shevchenko asked donetsk

of a journalist and a former prisoner, the torture isolation of stanislav asev, listen. do you see any threats because of how the integration of people who spent 9 years under occupation for the national security of ukraine, in particular, will take place in donbas, there are undoubtedly many people who have been waiting and still they are waiting for russia to- to well, let's say yes, yes , forever, so that the territory of the russian federation remains there. is this the territory that is currently annexed and did not remain part of it, so working with these people is the main challenge for the national of security and here there are many questions, first of all about their right to vote, because today these people have the opportunity, if we liberate these territories tomorrow, they will have the opportunity to influence the future of ukraine through the political choice here, well, for example, i have big questions about in the occupied donbass,

russian army ammunition depots explode from time to time, how do the locals react to this, whether it scares them or maybe inspires them, you don't know. as far as i know, the locals do n't react to such things at all, for them it's a challenge now - this is first of all drinking water and water in general because it is not even in donetsk or still in whole districts and people there get drinking water by registration simply by passport so that you understand the living conditions, the humanitarian crisis now is the first thing that worries people there the general situation with warehouses exploding, well, if it’s not directly near their house, as a rule, few people are bothered by it, but you really mentioned that even people with a pro-ukrainian e-e position may have a certain apathy about how e-e will unfold further the war, if it is getting wider, what are the outcomes of the war in donbas? it is difficult for me to answer this question because i have literally only a few contacts left there, and the overall

picture is not very clear to me, how they see this situation, because the only thing i can to say again, according to the analysis of their local separatist publications there among the makiivites in the occupied khartsyzk in donetsk, the people who write there are disappointed in the sense that annexation took place, well, for them it is accession to russia, for us it is annexation and not nothing changed, it only got worse, that is, until february 24, they still had water, they did not have such large-scale hostilities, there was no such, yes, there was no such intensity, now they got russia, which they wanted, now they got citizenship, and everything only got worse, that's why in this case, it is necessary to understand that there is apathy not only on the part of the ukrainian population, which is waiting for liberation, but which has not yet happened, but on the part of the pro-russian population, people are beginning to understand because of the domestic crisis humanitarian crisis that in fact russia is not a solution to their problems at all oleksandr lukashenko

makes statements about the threat from nato in order to emphasize the need for protection and avoid involving belarus in russia's war against ukraine , analysts of the institute for the study of war came to this conclusion just the day before lukashenko assembled a power bloc at a meeting where they talked about the fact that belarus allegedly needs additional measures for defense, that ukraine is allegedly trying to draw nato into the conflict as an argument lukashenko gave the fall of a missile on the territory of poland. and he added that so far he is said to be succeeding in deterring a potential adversary, but at the same time it is necessary to constantly monitor and not miss signs that would indicate immediate preparations for aggression against belarus , so the analyst of the institute for the study of war suggests that oleksandr lukashenko and his minister of defense viktor hryenin allegedly focused the information campaign on fictitious nato aggression and provocative activities along the belarusian border in order to resist russian pressure on

the entry of belarus into the war, they say that military belarus should remain in belarus because there is a threat from nato countries, and at the same time, according to estimates, the entry of belarus into the war of russia against ukraine is extremely unlikely, they say in the american institute for the study of war. convenient for putin at this stage of the war, let's talk further anton matolko project manager belarusian district joins our broadcast good evening good evening from your point of view and how far did the 10th month of the war go on how long is lukashenko loyal to putin and useful to putin, and all the time before this he is absolutely not a-let's say that completely under control i said point by point and will do what will be demanded in moscow in the kremlin eh at the same time foreign markets he will play the

role of a peacemaker, he will try to play the role of a peacemaker, or a person who is forced to do something against the force of will and at the same time, how would he be absolutely the same if putin is an emperor, then he is a person who is very sorry that the soviet union collapsed and i would like to see kondishnev in the previous format. well, you say he will do everything putin asks , but it seems that putin is not opposed to starting a war in belarus, and is it not so that the kremlin is against it because, er, let's be honest again for two years in the bunker, it leads to quite serious changes in the head when the person is hot. there are a lot of questions about kovidy and the common man, and putin's adequacy, too, but smarter people understand that in the case of the entry of the belarusian army into the war, the implementation of which will happen on the territory of belarus, they can be

catastrophic, including for themselves, so they don't need it either, and accordingly, you see, there is no direct requirement that lukashenko must er-er conditionally say give the order er-er to participate in the war, and the situation suits them byelorussia, what can you manage ? of the russians mobilized for this on the belarusian military training grounds so far for now, this is enough for russia for the kremlin. i understood this from lukashenko at the kremlin at the moment. this is my personal view. at the moment, there is not enough power to help lukashenko with the suppression of protests in case of

if they are in belarus, then such a situation will occur. if we remember what happened in 2020 , then such a situation will not stop in the form of peaceful protests, including peaceful protests, but it is very unlikely that lukashenko and those who will try to support him with the help of force of arms, they will not be able to preserve power, they will be able to preserve the position of the so- called president who does not recognize lukashenko, and he writes that during the meeting of the communist party of ukraine in yerevan last week, lukashenko voiced threats to remove him from office and that a few days before that, the head of the kgb of belarus also warned lukashenka at a meeting that russia was preparing an attempt on him, does this version seem

plausible to you? it is gathered that some order or demand for sacredness is very unlikely that indeed such things will somehow become commonplace and will be publicly known to be discussed together with us because it is not logical. we see , uh, the information company, on request, uh, will present lukashenko in the form of such a poor, unfortunate person who, with his strength, defends himself from the demands of russia, trying to prevent participation in the war in ukraine, and the request, uh, to show that here is lukashenko - this is the one with whom they conditionally say that it

is possible to enter into negotiations with putin, for example. i was afraid that he would be poisoned, that i don’t know, someone would be an accessory and the like, but no matter what, nothing had changed, and the way the information was spread, especially after this trip, was more like a planned pr campaign for lukashenko and he showed his ego to someone, that's dependent and well, the person who has a cat is dangerous, i understood you. another one for the message, too, which sounded in the ukrainian media . and if not by the west, then it is possible that at least some security guarantees for himself and his relatives in china were also allegedly wanted to be found , and for this the former minister of foreign affairs of belarus, who died suddenly, volodymyr makei, made efforts for this. how do you like this version ?

it seems plausible. and actually, what could we offer lukashenko to china or the west in exchange for our own security guarantees? but this is exactly what i was talking about in order to start talking with lukashenko. it is necessary to fulfill the conditions that were prescribed or even said in august 2020 and which svetlana tikhonovskaya repeats every time the president will stop the violence and free all political prisoners and hold new free elections this year added the phrase and it is necessary to carry out in order to fix something. if lukashenko wanted to change something, then at least he would have stopped the repression that has only intensified in belarus over the last hour. that is, if we are talking about what is happening in belarus now, then every day criminal articles arrest from 20 to 50 people , that is, they go through the list of almost everyone who was

seen on the streets of minsk in 2020 through the e-e application, disinfects people, matches them with passport data, and goes through everyone they could to identify several hundreds of thousands of people, that is, at least in order for any kind of dialogue to begin, it is necessary to banally stop daily arrests, daily multi -year terms and the like. the second step is to release political prisoners. political desire is necessary in principle volya vopros can it be done by lukashenko destroyers he can do it at the moment of possible revenges or uplifts. the attitude of the civil society of belarusians and the demand for the country to stand again is why it is such a big

discussion story. what did lukashenko say to him, and simply because he was more educated, i accepted him, of course, even as a diplomat, but a man who can speak certainly compared to lukashenko looked warm such a better image of a western man and a bureaucrat, but he carried out 100% of what lukashenko said, if it was necessary to say that russia is bad, for example, in 2019, he said that russia is bad, just as it was necessary to support the so- called military operation the operation in ukraine, the war, they fully supported the war, and the shirts are that person . thanks to belarus, the official belarus in the un always supports russia in all votes, so they do not need to make a bet.

- this was such a bridge between belarus and the request for this bridge at the moment can be presented as svetlana stepanovskaya and other demsyls who are just as distinguished lukashenko has a phone book and can call or contact a favorite of western politicians to discuss the issue of leaving lukashenko to protect and secure his family, for this it is necessary to repeat two conditions, as a minimum, to stop repressions, to start releasing prisoners, well, it is obvious, then, that such a desire is still that lukashenka is not there, i understood so, thank you very much anton motorko, the project manager of the belarusian district was on radio liberty, and there is another piece of news that appeared literally just now from the security service of ukraine in the context of the discussion of events surrounding the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, it is reported that the sbu completed the counter-intelligence measures at the facilities of the uoc mp in the transcarpathian rivne region of the zhytomyr region

. pro-kremlin literature, nazi symbols , teachings on satanism, and the texts of prayers for the moscow patriarch kirill, this was literally quoted to you by the message of the security service of ukraine, we will monitor how the situation around the uoc mp will develop, and in the meantime, i urge you to subscribe to the pages of radio svoboda on the internet in social networks and two youtube channels radio svoboda and radio svoboda ukraine well , the svoboda life program will be back on the air already on monday mykola veresen vitaly portnikov and the main topics of the week if against ukraine used, god forbid, really tactical nuclear weapons, it will definitely change the world. stories, problems , analysis and personalities, we are waiting for john gerbs, the former ambassador of the united states to ukraine

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