and they think that this war is the war of some biden and putin zelensky and putin of some politicians, but not the war of russia against ukraine about the extermination of ukrainians. i think enlightenment to tell the truth and give examples and evidence, it is very important to have real evidence and not just words a-a hmm then the consciousness of the winners, that is, the truth will win in any case please then a lot of work yes this is your job you you what in the information war it is sometimes more difficult than a hot phase well, it is possible to say everyone does what they know where it can be useful, it is definitely more difficult because it is very responsible what makes you a word

kills no worse than iron well, in fact, this is what you hear from a legendary person this is for us for sure a big big encouragement thank you very much for this conversation thank you it was very nice thank you for what you continue to er do for the fact that you also information there i will not stop telling people about what really what does this war really look like from the inside, what do those who try to enslave us, destroy and take away our identity from us really look like, well, the problem is that they really want to erase not only from the face of the earth, but in general from the history and consciousness of the world, the concept of ukrainianness, i.e. they deny us the right to exist and that's why i think the people united and rose up. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you.

everyone knows tyra, a paramedic and a volunteer. that russian captivity and what is this full-scale war of russia against ukraine we are going on a short , very short break and returning to the studio this happens only once every four years 32 national teams will meet on the fields of the boat to find a new winner in ideals watch all 64 matches of the world cup live aired on the megogo media service every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world vitaliy portnikov, the host of espresso and

invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events, you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, see saturday's political club that saturdays at espresso forum via carpathia 2022 lviv third and fourth of december via carpathia during the war in defiance of the war about trials ukrainian culture faced during the war about losses challenges and opportunities for ukrainian culture will be spoken by halyna krug rostyslav derzypilskyi mykola knyazhytskyi bohdan tikholos leonid finberg iryna tsylyk via karpaty 2022 discussions presentations presentation of the stanislav vincenz award follow the events of the forum on espresso tv channel

via karpatia forum live on december 3 at 11:10 and 12 and 10 december 4 at 12:10 i'm iryna koval mom friends volunteer our soldiers at the front need a lot of things every day and that's why of my life today - this is help to the armed forces of ukraine and i am very grateful to my colleagues for supporting me in this. now i walk through unfamiliar lviv, not kyiv. i go to an unfamiliar coffee shop and drink delicious lviv coffee. everything is alive and everyone alive in ukraine is grateful army now surprisingly, life and army are synonymous words in ukraine, because without the army there is no life, to help the army

is to help the ukrainian army with your life, and life will defeat death, everyone of you can even make a small contribution to support the army, it saves the lives of our soldiers and brings our victory closer , in fact, while it is happening in us break, we are talking to each other here, the viewer writes that it is not soviet, but soviet, it is probably after our conversation that it is actually soviet, because it is, after all, how you consider it, of course, the period in the history of ukraine when ukraine was soviet, if it was happiness and prosperity for you, it probably brought

you prosperity. you know what they called it sovit union, that is, they did not translate it, some kind of union consul there, i don’t know there myself, that is, treason or uniarat, that’s what they called it, how they thought it was , that this is the republic of the soviets, the so-called country of the soviets it is not translated because it is a specific way of organizing the organization of a state organization of a specific state institutions that were specifically in russia that had nothing to do with real institutions such as local self -government. existed or simply as a screen for the regime, as some kind of facade that supposedly investigates democracy

, well, the same elections, for example, to those councils that always knew only one candidate, where in principle it is not important who and how many will vote for him? well, you yourself understand, that is, if we seriously call it soviets, then it seems that we really believe that the soviet union had at least some kind of democracy, it was not what it was, but it was a totalitarian aggressive empire where rights were violated man and what is the infinity of his persian wars to call a spade a spade and what will the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate be called in the end or will it be called the enemy, we will talk about this later oksana the bitterness of religion was known to us by ms. oksano. we congratulate you. glory to ukraine glory to the heroes, a lot of people were actually comforted because, er, president zelenskyi said that it was necessary to deal

with the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate in the end, already there they thought that the kyiv-pechersk our lavra and it is actually not ours yet, this is historical. this story, but how do you know crimea , our crimea is a drug, when it will be under control in ukraine and different moments, that is, on the one hand, there was an epiphany that said that the head of the ukrainian orthodox church of ukraine, who said that the registered congregation is already registered in and demands that the monastery be handed over. and which is in the kyiv-pechersk lavra, which is a state reserve at the same time and belongs to the state, on the other hand, there was already a reaction from the cabinet of ministers, which is actually there if the manager, or the owner of this property, namely the minister of culture, mr. tkachenko, about the fact that it is not so easy, there are two months to think about it. and in general, it

was granted by yanukovych to the orthodox community of the moscow patriarchate for lifetime use, so what are you think about now this exchange of arguments and where it will eventually lead us next well, we know that crimea is ukraine donbass is ukraine luhansk is ukraine kyiv-pechersk lavra is ukraine and the moscow patriarchate is an institution that we have here by chance well, not quite by chance, but at least it is not a ukrainian institution, that is why we understand that the kyiv-pechersk lavra is ukraine, it is a part of our history , and it is a materialized, actualized part of our history and it cannot be removed from kyiv and the fact that this ukrainian shrine and cultural center, a huge spiritual center, is occupied by an institution that does not belong to the ukrainian world but is a representative of the russian world in ukraine, then of course this is a great

tragedy of ours. this is a reference to the decree on the lifelong use of the property of president viktor yanukovych, as far as it looks like, it is a solid mention in the mouth of the current minister. well, actually, where is yanukovych now? you see, we should learn by now to be subjects and to be subjects that is, where yanukovych and his decrees should be, there is the ukrainian state, and if ukraine thinks of itself as an independent, free subject of the modern global dimension, it must formulate its own state policy , including in the religious and spiritual direction and this should happen systematically. that is, in this case, it is captured ukrainian territory, a captured ukrainian cultural center, and the fact that yanukovych, who at one time hm, whose rule led to

bloody victims and, in the end, we understand to war because the russian federation actually attacked ukraine again and we remember that there he somehow called russian troops here, so i don't think that any decree of yanukovych should be an authority for us that it is necessary to correct the situation and ukraine should demonstrate itself as an object here, is this even possible that there will be no moscow patriarchate in ukraine and all these agents in cassocks will no longer trade on the territory of ukraine and will not be forgotten by ukrainians so look, so i have the honor to represent the scientific institution of religion i knew that and we for all 30 years. well, i am less. my colleagues longer than independent ukraine, we analyzed the real religious situation in modern ukraine and we reported about the harm to the worldview of consciousness and the worldview of the citizens of ukraine and the harm to state security

caused by religious or pseudo-religious institutions controlled by the kremlin . wrote in our works, we talked about it, but there was a strange tendency not to notice it, although it should be said that there was a so-called institute of strategic studies, which worked there specialists and so, if the state and the people in power and the authorities in ukraine in general were guided by those documents that were developed, including by the institute of strategic research in the direction of the implementation of state church policy, then the situation would be much better in our country. i should not call this institution a church because according to my, according to my deep-deep conviction, functionally it is not a church, that is, the church should still be an articulator or announcer of god's truths in the real world in the ukrainian world in the ukrainian reality and what are we we have, we have an institution that proclaims russian

kremlin messages on the territory of ukraine, they say that in ukraine, on our land, in our case, very often. not religious the purpose is political functioning and in this case they are representatives or representatives of the institution and hostile ideological propaganda institution about their messages and that they are so peaceful in us in general i looked you know, i analyze this situation all the time, and kirill wants to turn it to me literally yesterday. well, you know kirill, kirill, he used to give awards . the sbu zone and what he was doing, he was talking about the need for a military

priesthood, not even a chaplaincy, but a military priesthood, yes, that is what this aggressive aggressive policy is about, and here their institution or their agents are teaching us to be peaceful tolerate, yes, well, that is, they actually form a model of the behavior of the victim, or the person who is going to be imagined by the aggressor, and we have this dissonance . the very institution or part of it here teaches us to be peace -loving, to put up our cheeks and, god forbid, not to resist aggression. unfortunately, it remains why, unfortunately, no, we can talk so well, well, well, well, well, what, what, what do we have a couple more they tell me for a minute, then i will ask. it

seems to me that this is very important, in your opinion, how does liz feel about it, or in general now the church of moskovsky , the moscow church, the moscow patriarchate, according to the signs, is a christian church. well, in your opinion, and the second point, uh, or also, let’s say, the removal of moskovsky the future of the patriarchate and its influence from ukraine will mean, among other things, a change even in the very identity of the moscow church of moscow, which seems to me to have firmly taken root even here in galicia, we see, for example this fashion for gilded golden domes from a famous bandit russian song that just spreads like a swarm in those small galician villages, everyone must now have some kind of golden dome, and they repaint them in these some features from that suzdyak someone mongolian and ornament and

architecture that also permeate in the construction of the church, should there also be some kind of state policy in order to return my e-e i absolutely agree with you i want to thank you for paying attention to these models behavior and these images, that is, just as the rite and cult of ukrainian orthodoxy differs from russian orthodoxy, there is russian russian orthodoxy, that's why we should rather call ourselves by our names, so the model that they impose on us is also different, including this mentally, we do not have completely different mental characteristics in ukraine, and pay attention. for example , ukrainian churches are real ukrainian, will we take into account the greek catholic church, or will we take into account the orthodox church of ukraine or other women rely on them, that is, there is no dissonance of worldview and mental self, they rely on such values ​​that are inherent and absolutely

naturally perceived by ukrainians, this is dignity and this is love of life, love of nature, love of family, this is love of freedom, these are these individuals, these are the characteristics of our mentality inherent in the ukrainian world, there are enough christian churches that support it, instead, the russian measure is promoted and brought to us by those models of behavior that break the ukrainian mentality they decided where to nazify the ukrainians, but they go and nazify them using various different methods , that's why i don't think on the one hand that this is a church, i think that it is a propaganda institution and that carries out a specific political order, and on the other hand, i am also grateful to you. i am constantly i emphasize that in christianity, in fact, what we see under the name of the russian orthodox church is the russian orthodox church in ukraine, yes, that is, the moscow patriarchate is an anti-christian religion , this is because there is an elevation and

idolatry, they actually made themselves an idol in the face of putin or a personification of the kremlin , and they worship him very well, this is also clearly visible in the russian orthodox church, both in the territory of russia and how they are trying to drag it even here, and this rite of worship, yes , that is, worship itself to icons and not to the holy and the sacred, the exaltation of certain heroes, uh, in their artificial mythology, again, this is the course of the saints . in their own saint, let's pay attention to the fact that they are completely different from ukrainian saints, and that's all is imposed, including this representation of consciousness and worldview, mancurtization occurs through a religious, as if religious sermon, therefore, from my point of view, it is from pure water and gave worship, let's pay attention that they honor these things and in them there is a corpse in the center of moscow, i'm sorry, where are they they still worship. i don’t know if they have already taken it out, but it

’s less, that is, all this is not inherent to us, it is disgusting to us, but they already installed a piece of our history in their psa historiography, in particular , the baptism of russia and all their imperial ambition on this is what is being built and formed, they made an idol out of this sacred uh, it’s as if they made such an icon and they can’t refuse it well, because then you have to say that you know i have such saints and i have such gods and we are actually kremlin and moscow moscow and we are actually invaders and unfortunately we have become hostages of this situation when they want to see us only as their slaves and the moscow church fulfills by the way, not only the russian orthodox church in ukraine, there are other smaller institutions that we do not mention now, but which messages in the kremlin in ukraine can also be er-eer messages in the kremlin in ukraine are not holy, not god's, not so old and not so great, and thank you ms. oksano for the

conversation, oksana, a bitter religious expert, was in touch with us , which is interesting and i remembered olga bogomolets. she created such a museum, a private museum, icons, different icons, she collected even in sme cities, er, ancient ukrainian icons that were painted, and she told a story about the fact that the ukrainian tradition of icon painting is a little different from er, russian, so ukrainian images are different from russian to ukrainian, god is always depicted as such a kind old man who accepts, who forgives , to whom you can come and say, i did something wrong, and he will not quarrel, he will not shout, but in russian culture, god is such a curmudgeon well, it's scary to come to him to ask for advice. what's more, he stands and watches so that he doesn't do something bad at the time, and

i'm looking at it now. do you know this western education system, which we compare ourselves to? which we see that there children are not afraid to make mistakes and after all, people grow up as adults and are not afraid when they make a mistake, and if you look at our parents and even at us, we also grew up in that soviet system, when any mistake is immediately scolded, and accordingly , even you you made a mistake, no one even scolded you yet but you are already standing in a defensive position because suddenly you will be scolded, that is, you will not be accepted with this mistake and they will say well, listen, well, it happens, let's think about how we can fix it, no, and nobody will think to you immediately they will say that you were wrong, it's because of you that everything happened to you, they hang all the dogs on you, and is n't this a continuation of this perception of god, who will come and punish, but he will not come. he will not embrace you, he will not forgive you, he will not give you the next second chance well, there is a study about the fact that

in russia one’s own attitude towards a person is that a person is always imperfect, and that is why he is always as if there is nothing and, accordingly, until and that is why he can be as if an unattainable ideal to which no one can reach, well , it is the opposite in the western version christianity a person is always imperfect, but this is exactly what it means that one must forgive the mistakes of the era of reforms . it is natural for a person to make mistakes, but everyone carries god's time, and therefore he is also with us by phone vyacheslav gorshko - coordinator of cooperation with religious communities of the state service of ukraine for ethnopolitics and freedom conscience and pyacheslav thank you for joining us have a good day greetings good day mr. vyacheslav i understand that the state service of ukraine for ethnopolitics and freedom of conscience should, in particular, conduct an inspection of property of the kyiv-pechersk lavra and then pass some kind of verdict on whether this lavra will still belong to

ukraine or whether it will all belong to the orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, well, regarding the premises, i don’t think that this is all our authority after all, it is not empowered to make decisions regarding the use of buildings there of national reserves. but if you look at the decision of the national security council, then we have to conduct an examination of the management statute of the ukrainian orthodox church for the presence of an ecclesiastical and economic connection with the moscow the patriarchate and, if necessary, take the measures provided for by law. this is what our service will do. well, on the one hand, there is a law that was passed as if in our country. this church, the so-called ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, should be called the russian orthodox church in

ukraine. why is this law this law is not being followed now. well, let's say that there were certain uh-e submissions to the court and now it just appeared in the courts, in fact, including, it seems to me, in the odious and infamous district court of appeals well, here are the ones, and here you understand that the judiciary is a separate branch of government in ukraine, after all, in your opinion, what should change in 20 months? can this church really be banned from its activities? well, i will remind you that all its leaders, for example, are on the official website the moscow patriarchate is purged as the clergy of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine. see well, if there is

a lot of talk now about banning the uoc itself, it is worth understanding that the uoc is not a legal entity, it is a church association. and according to the ukrainian according to the law, church associations are not legal entities, their statutes are not registered, but here is another question, that is, according to the law, only those organizations that are legal entities can be deprived of the status of a religious organization, this is, in the case of church associations, this religious communities, monasteries, educational institutions, diocesan administrations , linear centers, etc., that's why when an association consists of thousands of religious organizations, you understand that it is a very non-trivial task to prove the involvement of each legal entity of this association to some illegal ties with the

enemy. well, first of all, not in every case. and you. and even in those cases where this happens, well, there must be court decisions. for example, if we look at the decision of the nsdc, the wording there is very it is interesting, in my opinion, that a draft law should be developed to make it impossible for religious organizations assimilated by centers of influence in the russian federation to operate in ukraine, and this should be done in accordance with the norms of international law in the field of freedom of conscience and obligations of ukraine in front of europe, that is, here it is really worth acting very carefully and exclusively in the legal field, what can be done and what should the ukrainian orthodox church itself do, look, it

is indeed in the statute of the russian orthodox church, moreover, it got there. of their own free will, because they were representatives of the ukrainian orthodox church, at least they were members of the synod of the russian orthodox church, participated in the councils of the russian orthodox church, that is, in those changes to the statute that took place some time ago in the state of the russian orthodox church there is a whole section dedicated to the ukrainian orthodox church, they did not get there without the participation of the ukrainian orthodox church, and therefore the ukrainian orthodox church and the ukrainian orthodox church should do something to. so that no one has any doubts about this. we have a very interesting recent example, because if you recall the results of the 2019 examination in connection with

the amendments to the law of ukraine on freedom of conscience, religious organizations, five religious associations that had an influence, that were governed, were recognized as having the leaders of the e-e center in russia, and among them, for example, was the kyiv diocese of the russian old believer church , so when this large-scale russian invasion began in february, this church immediately reacted to it and in my opinion, very successfully, correctly and clearly, not ambiguously and in principle, that is, they made a council decision to distance themselves from moscow , they wrote a letter to their metropolitan of moscow and said that with such circumstances, we we cannot be under your subordination, we ask you for autocephaly, after that they did not wait for him to give them autocephaly, and they

prepared a package of documents and registered a completely new church structure, the orthodox church of ukraine, which is now neither legally nor canonically subordinated to moscow it was done very consistently, fundamentally ambiguous. and there are no questions about this church now whether they have connections with moscow or not. if such similar actions at least similar actions would have been made by the ukrainian orthodox church to them, there were probably no questions for her either, if there were appropriate reactions to uh, there were any actions of uh, her clergy there, members of this church or any questions there , well, there would also be questions. less than a minute literally remains. well, the presence the moscow patriarchate is what i call, for example, the shrines for the ukrainian orthodox, the kiev-pechersk lavra. is

this a normal situation and is there a sufficient legal basis for their presence? is there some decree of president yanukovych that is there for life? i gave them something to use there, this is the first and second , and if there is no legal solution, does this mean that the believers of the ukrainian orthodox church, i mean , the psu will have to solve this issue as it was solved by the greek catholics in the 1989s and 1990s , when there was no legal solution bases, but the churches and temples were returning. i hope and am almost convinced that a legal legal solution will be found that will not lead to any aggravation and any serious confrontation, especially if we look at the lavra, there are different territories there contracts that expire this month . this is exactly the nature reserve and can decide not to renew this contract.